Arm a Terminator

[Imperial Overlord]

So I've seen a Terminator: Salvation showing a T-600 or other early model in metal skeleton form packing a minigun and my first thoughts were "okay, I'm sure the kill bot has sufficient power to run the minigun, but what the fuck is it going to do about ammo? Have an ammo truck follow it around everywhere?"

So for this exercise you're a subnode of Skynet and the T-600 are beginning to roll off the assembly lines. They're being used as infiltrators and as robot infantry doing seek and destroy and all that other fun stuff that robot infantry controlled by a genocidal AI would do. At the moment you have weapons manufacturing base that can produce gear roughly equivalent to our own.

How would you equip the T-600s?

[Solauren]

Crossbows + Bolts, or Bows and Arrows. Customizable mission purpose arrowheads (i.e Explosive, chemical, etc) keep in a compartment inside the T-600 (or other models) that detonates if opened by force (the T-600 can shut this feature down at will, obviously)

Think about it

Imagine the Draw Strength a Bow used by a Terminator could have.

Plus, there is no way in hell a human would be able to use it against your forces. And even if they did, Terminators might be fast enough to just catch the arrow (hell, if humans with training can do it...)

Just give them something like a chainsaw for a melee weapon, and have at them.

Edit: As a bonus, provided you didn't use explosive warheads, the arrows and crossbow bolts are reusable.

[Khaat]

Arrows fired from impossible-weight bows/crossbows, spears or javelins (atl-atl's?), bladed weapons (all the better to fit the "Mad Max" human survivor look). If the human targets hit aren't killed, they are at least badly injured, weapon is immediately reusable, and human-capture of these weapons will be mostly useless against advanced alloys. Efficient? No, but scary. Also quiet.

Capture duty: tasers, cattle prods (also mostly useless against hyper-alloys encased in rubber).

Occasional issue of sniper rifles and a deployment of sniper-duty units. Said units will play dead for longer than humanly possible and wait for active units to flush humans, then engage from extreme range. Semi-auto, internal magazine, impossible-for-a-human trigger-pull, no sights, machine-friendly (and human unfriendly) stock/grip.

Standing orders will be to collect and use humans' weapons to exhaust their limited stores: use up the ammo, then damage the receiver so it won't be readily available if re-captured by humans.

A thought: infiltration units wouldn't want to carry their own firearms (it makes them more of a threat-at-first-glance, denies them the opportunity to infiltrate if only soldiers have weapons), but capture weapons of the human dens they infiltrate.

[Jaevric]

Something like a modern SAW, with a backpack ammunition hopper. More than adequate stopping power and ROF for killing unarmored humans and the ammunition's going to last a lot longer than for a minigun -- which is pure overkill anyway. Fragmentation grenades may also be a good choice, depending on how effective such weapons would be against Terminators.

Also, something like an automatic shotgun at closer range. Devastating against humans, relatively ineffective against a Terminator even if humans manage to capture a bunch of them.

[Starglider]

Solauren's suggestion is good at longer ranges, but I'd supplement it with a flamethrower. Highly useful for urban work where your units may need to flush human vermin out of tiny crevices or beat back a human wave attack at close range. Your own units are effectively immune so you can use it with impunity in QCB, and it doesn't need precise aiming, which helps if your AI is underpowered or the nasty monkey tricks manage to degrade your sensors. As a bonus, it has a significant psychological effect on the fleshlings and can aid in destroying their structures and supplies.

For melee combat a chainsaw is cool but impractical, some kind of powered extending spike weapon would probably be better, extra reach and less opportunities to dodge. It's also of less use to the humans as salvage.

[Imperial Overlord]

I don't see a melee weapon as necessary. A Terminator can easily kill with it's bare hands (remember Bill Paxton's gang in T1?). Why waste finite production capability and payload limitations on an unnecessary weapon when most combat will occur at range anyway.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Plus, there is no way in hell a human would be able to use it against your forces. And even if they did, Terminators might be fast enough to just catch the arrow (hell, if humans with training can do it...)

Who can catch crossbow bolts? I'm pretty sure that's a myth.

The use of bows is stupid anyway because they are single-shot weapons completely unsuitable for engaging multiple targets or providing any volume of fire, and even with an extremely high draw weight the velocity of the projectile is much lower than that of a bullet, hence the effective range is shorter and accuracy subject to much more degradation due to windage. Melee weapons are completely unnecessary because we're talking about super-strong eight foot robots made out of titanium; it would be trivially easy for one to kill any number of humans with only its hands.

Because of the physical power of the T-600 it would be able to accommodate large and heavy weapons without much difficulty. Something in the character of a 7.62 NATO machinegun with a heavy barrel for sustained firing would give it the ability to engage multiple human targets at long range without the overkill factor of a minigun.

[Khaat]

The use of bows is stupid anyway because they are single-shot weapons completely unsuitable for engaging multiple targets or providing any volume of fire, and even with an extremely high draw weight the velocity of the projectile is much lower than that of a bullet, hence the effective range is shorter and accuracy subject to much more degradation due to windage.

Granted, but a) it's quiet, so it can be used without pin-pointing the attacker's position, b) is recoverable, minimizing supply lines, c) requires minimal industry, and d) is impotent if captured for use against Terminators. Oh, yeah, and that part where they're infiltration units, not front line soldiers.

Melee weapons are completely unnecessary because we're talking about super-strong eight foot robots made out of titanium; it would be trivially easy for one to kill any number of humans with only its hands.

A longer arm (weapon) not only increased reach, but amplifies applied force. Besides, killer 8-foot robots with swords are an [strike]awesome[/strike] wanktastic visual.

Because of the physical power of the T-600 it would be able to accommodate large and heavy weapons without much difficulty. Something in the character of a 7.62 NATO machinegun with a heavy barrel for sustained firing would give it the ability to engage multiple human targets at long range without the overkill factor of a minigun.

...Except for the supply lines thing. And that it's useful if captured by human resistance fighters against your own units.

I think everyone knows guns are the best job for engaging multiple targets at range, but there's some sick appeal to the juxtaposed image of the super-advanced robots hunting humans with low-tech weapons. The logistical benefit of not giving better guns to your enemies is more of an excuse than a real justification.

No, I'm not taking this terribly seriously, and apologize for the resulting slight to the OP.

[Starglider]

I don't see a melee weapon as necessary. A Terminator can easily kill with it's bare hands (remember Bill Paxton's gang in T1?). Why waste finite production capability and payload limitations on an unnecessary weapon when most combat will occur at range anyway.

Well, we have to analyse the threat here. Why are the humans trying to get so close in the first place? It's not as if human melee weapons will do anything to terminators. The most likely scenario is that they're trying to use contact explosives (e.g. 'sticky bombs') to destroy the terminators - particularly likely if the humans in question don't have access to military grade high explosives and are being forced to improvise. This threat isn't significant for terminators in the T-800 class, but the T-600 is a lumbering hulk that could plausibly fall victim to humans with sticky-bombs, particularly in urban ruins where they can sneak around more easily (IEDs are also likely to be a big problem).

Shotguns, flamers or SMGs (particularly in mini-turrets) could handle the threat, but they do need logistical support, which isn't ideal for long patrols and a resource-strapped AI. A collapsible spear-type weapon (hydralic, pneumatic or EM) takes up minimal volume and has up to twenty feet of reach, enough to impale humans before they get close. The ability to take out those pesky children scurrying around in the rubble without wasting ammo is a bonus.

Because of the physical power of the T-600 it would be able to accommodate large and heavy weapons without much difficulty. Something in the character of a 7.62 NATO machinegun with a heavy barrel for sustained firing would give it the ability to engage multiple human targets at long range without the overkill factor of a minigun.

Handing usable weapons to the enemy is a key factor here; a major factor in Skynet's loss was handing TechCom high-powered plasma weapons every time they took down a HK. Later terminators are effectively immune to 7.62, but I doubt that holds for the early units (the lighter ones at least - it's difficult to make a humanoid robot that moves at a reasonable speed while carrying enough armor to ignore 7.62 fire).

Manual bows are silly, but mechanically drawn crossbows can achieve reasonable rates of fire; pneumatic bolt throwers are probably even better, and coil guns would be ideal if the technology is available. Again, the ability to fire what is effectively scrap metal is very useful for early terminators sent out on long-range patrols; lots of humans to kill and not much logistical support. Supporting massive use of machine guns would require use of automated factories that are desperately needed to make more terminators, or capturing large stocks of human ammunition - tricky when the nuclear war destroyed nearly all the military installations. In such a situation it would be more reasonable to give every third or fourth Terminator a medium MG, more like a human infantry force.

[Imperial Overlord]

If the close quarters issue is to avoid sticky bombs, satchel charges, and similar devices then a melee weapon makes even less sense. You want to kill people like that before they get that close. Sword range is too close. The SMGs and shotguns do make sense in that situation. Not in turrets for our T-600, since this is our infiltrator exoskeleton, but it should be considered for HKs.

Children can easily be killed by bullets, throwing anything lying around, and bare hands. They aren't a case for melee weapons.

I personally lean toward high powered rifles for sniping at range (disadvantage of possibly being used against Skynet forces) and modified SAWs.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Anything that uses bullet style ammunition ( as in, not those plasma guns ) is in a nonstandard caliber, so human made ammunition doesn't fit. If it uses propellant, the propellant is formulated to produce highly toxic gases as it burns.

If it's something like a railgun or plasma weapon, they are designed for external power supplied by a Terminator. Either via a cable, or some kind of induction method for the flesh covered ones.

Whenever possible, Terminators and their weapons are contaminated with poisons, radioisotopes, and if possible disease. Make them and their weapons as dangerous for the humans to hijack as possible. Note that anything that goes after the brain won't bother a flesh covered Terminator.

Poison and radioisotope based weapons should be used for area denial and supply raids. A single Terminator that gets in range of a supply dump for a shot or two with a plasma gun can't do too much damage. A single poison/radioisotope grenade could make much or all of the supplies useless, even if the Terminator gets blasted five seconds later.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Because of the physical power of the T-600 it would be able to accommodate large and heavy weapons without much difficulty. Something in the character of a 7.62 NATO machinegun with a heavy barrel for sustained firing would give it the ability to engage multiple human targets at long range without the overkill factor of a minigun.

I agree mostly. I would actually go for a heavy barrel machine gun firing .338 Lapua Magnum or similar with an underbarrel 30-40 mm grenade launcher with a cylindrical (i.e. revolver) or tubular magazine. The combination is too heavy for humans to carry and the grenades can easily be designed so that they require electrical fuze activation, which only the Terminators can provide. The slightly larger caliber in place of 7.62 Nato provides extra range and penetrates even heavy body armor easily, while the ammunition still needs much less space than .50 / 12.7 mm ammo.

[Starglider]

You want to kill people like that before they get that close.

Certainly you want to, but (judging by the movies) many of the humans are hiding in cities that are a mass of broken rubble. Once they get some experience in defeating terminator sensor systems (i.e. learn to mask their IR signatures), you may not have the luxury of picking them off at range. Melee weapons if present are purely a backup, but if they're worth the production and weight cost then they should be fitted. A pneumatic spear is cheap, light and has usefully long reach (at least equivalent to a halberd).

The SMGs and shotguns do make sense in that situation. Not in turrets for our T-600, since this is our infiltrator exoskeleton, but it should be considered for HKs.

I have a hard time calling the T4 version of the T-600s 'infiltrators'. They're huge hulking metal giants. Now if we were talking about the original version, which were basically a less advanced version of the T-800 with rubber skin, your argument against melee weapons would make sense. My argument is based largely on the apparent lack of maneuverability in the T4 T-600s.

I personally lean toward high powered rifles for sniping at range (disadvantage of possibly being used against Skynet forces)

Well, in a scenario where you can identify the humans at range, you can probably feed the co-ordinates to an aerial HK (if operating alone) or tank HK (if in a major operation) and blast them with even less risk and more kill probability. Skynet has an overwhelming air and armor support advantage, so I'd expect sniping to be more useful for the humans.

[Imperial Overlord]

Certainly you want to, but (judging by the movies) many of the humans are hiding in cities that are a mass of broken rubble. Once they get some experience in defeating terminator sensor systems (i.e. learn to mask their IR signatures), you may not have the luxury of picking them off at range. Melee weapons if present are purely a backup, but if they're worth the production and weight cost then they should be fitted. A pneumatic spear is cheap, light and has usefully long reach (at least equivalent to a halberd).

Which is too close if that's what you're worried about that. Halberd range is just fine for tossing a sticky bomb or satchel charge. You can just shoot them with whatever you're armed with.

I have a hard time calling the T4 version of the T-600s 'infiltrators'. They're huge hulking metal giants. Now if we were talking about the original version, which were basically a less advanced version of the T-800 with rubber skin, your argument against melee weapons would make sense. My argument is based largely on the apparent lack of maneuverability in the T4 T-600s.

For the purposes of this hypothetical, the T-600s in question can be disguised as a large human with rubber skin and wigs that won't fool anyone close up.

Well, in a scenario where you can identify the humans at range, you can probably feed the co-ordinates to an aerial HK (if operating alone) or tank HK (if in a major operation) and blast them with even less risk and more kill probability. Skynet has an overwhelming air and armor support advantage, so I'd expect sniping to be more useful for the humans.

That's a lot of resources deployed just to kill a human or two that can easily be killed by the Terminator on site. HKs, fuel, and whatever you use to blast the humans from the air aren't free either.

[Samuel]

Anything that uses bullet style ammunition ( as in, not those plasma guns ) is in a nonstandard caliber, so human made ammunition doesn't fit. If it uses propellant, the propellant is formulated to produce highly toxic gases as it burns.

If it's something like a railgun or plasma weapon, they are designed for external power supplied by a Terminator. Either via a cable, or some kind of induction method for the flesh covered ones.

Whenever possible, Terminators and their weapons are contaminated with poisons, radioisotopes, and if possible disease. Make them and their weapons as dangerous for the humans to hijack as possible. Note that anything that goes after the brain won't bother a flesh covered Terminator.

Poison and radioisotope based weapons should be used for area denial and supply raids. A single Terminator that gets in range of a supply dump for a shot or two with a plasma gun can't do too much damage. A single poison/radioisotope grenade could make much or all of the supplies useless, even if the Terminator gets blasted five seconds later.

I don't see how that would help. Humanity has lots of warm bodies- they can afford to use weapons that kill their own troopers over a period of time. Also, making special versions takes material that Skynet doesn't have and using the Terminator as a power source... well, the resistance will probably just gut the power cells and put it on a technical or use it as a defensive weapon.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Granted, but a) it's quiet, so it can be used without pin-pointing the attacker's position,

Because eight-foot tall robots with glowing red eyes are really going to he sneaking around sniping people with crossbows.

b) is recoverable, minimizing supply lines,

They're already going to have a supply train for repair equipment and parts anyway, and the possibility of recovering the crossbow bolts is less useful than the colossal increase in per-unit killing power provided by firearms. There is also the fact that bolts are substantially heavier and bulkier than cartridges so that each unit could carry perhaps five times as many bullets as bolts for the same weight.

c) requires minimal industry,

There are large existing military small arms stockpiles that Skynet can easily repurpose.

and d) is impotent if captured for use against Terminators.

I don't understand why you people are making such a huge deal out of this issue. Yes, in the canon, Skynet made a mistake by developing weapons that could harm Terminators and allowing Tech-Com to capture examples. But that doesn't mean that every weapon more advanced than a fucking crossbow has the same problem. For fuck's sake, Tech-Com obviously already has access to small arms stockpiles.

Oh, yeah, and that part where they're infiltration units, not front line soldiers.

You're right. This one here is sure infiltrating the shit out of some humans.

A longer arm (weapon) not only increased reach, but amplifies applied force.

Force and reach that are unnecessary to the purpose of killing humans. If you want to kill somebody by hitting them with a bus, do you really need to mount a big steel spike on the front?

As for the issue Starglider brought up, humans using contact explosives to destroy terminators, if they're close enough to do that a spear or axe is not going to save the unit from a swarm of sappers. Light short-range weaponry is also unnecessary because the T-600 is so large and strong that an FN MAG is as maneuverable as a submachinegun in its hands.

...Except for the supply lines thing. And that it's useful if captured by human resistance fighters against your own units.

They already have guns, try again.

The OP is flawed because it has the T-600s being used as infiltrators, when it's very obvious from their appearance that they're nothing of the sort--they've got no rubber skin, they're eight feet tall, and one of their arms is replaced by a minigun. They're clearly hunter-killer units who should be equipped with the most efficient weaponry available.

If we go by the original T-600 lore, where it was a less advanced T-800 with rubber skin but could still conceivably be briefly mistaken for a human human, it makes even less sense to equip them with crossbows, because that instantly marks them. For infiltration purposes they should be carrying the same kind of guns as Tech-Com.

[Sea Skimmer]

As a general purpose combat unit I’d give it a repackaged (to be even more durable) G3 rifle with a 100 round magazine, plus a pump action grenade launcher with airburst capability which would in most cases be the main weapon. I’d also give it a high capacity auto handgun in a protected case (but not integral to the unit like the Robocop gun) as a backup. I don’t want my Terminator being overwhelmed just because a sniper broke its gun, and even if it gets damaged afterward I can still salvage it for parts and deny its technology to the humans ect...

I really can’t see a need for more firepower then that in a standard kill unit that will probably only encounter humans in small numbers. Any weapon the terminator carries may be captured and used against me (Skynet) so heavy armament is highly undesirable unless absolutely required. It will only be issued if needed, and perhaps actually be air delivered after contact has been made with a major center of resistance. Skynet probably lost in large part because the humans captured so many advanced weapons after destroying isolated units. Anything that can kill a Terminator at long range or with one shot must be carefully controlled. Giving every last Terminator an automatic plasma rifle is just dumb, unless something was preventing Skynet from producing sufficient ammo for chemically propelled weapons.

As an infiltration unit, the only logical terminator armament is exactly whatever the humans are using in that area of operations, preferably using captured weapons and ammo. Showing up with a machine gun held in one hand and 600 rounds of ammo on a single belt is not going to fool humans too well. Likewise arming the unit with an M16 when operating the former PRC is also likely to attract unwanted attention.

[Stark]

The OP is flawed because it has the T-600s being used as infiltrators, when it's very obvious from their appearance that they're nothing of the sort--they've got no rubber skin, they're eight feet tall, and one of their arms is replaced by a minigun. They're clearly hunter-killer units who should be equipped with the most efficient weaponry available.

If we go by the original T-600 lore, where it was a less advanced T-800 with rubber skin but could still conceivably be briefly mistaken for a human human, it makes even less sense to equip them with crossbows, because that instantly marks them. For infiltration purposes they should be carrying the same kind of guns as Tech-Com.

Whoa. I have too much taste to watch trailers for another Terminator movie, but I find it hilarious that they've made giant mechanical man-soldiers. Worthless for infiltration, needlessly complex for warfare, nerd fanservice. What's not to like?

The idea that the humans got all their guns from killed terminators is fucking stupid. A war isn't like Doom. They would have had to raid armouries or build their own to sustain a proper offensive in any numbers. Even worse once you factor in HKs raping humans in the open for no 'weapon drops'.

[Sea Skimmer]

The idea that the humans got all their guns from killed terminators is fucking stupid. A war isn't like Doom. They would have had to raid armouries or build their own to sustain a proper offensive in any numbers. Even worse once you factor in HKs raping humans in the open for no 'weapon drops'.

Did I say all guns? No I fucking didn’t idiot. But anything a Terminator drops is damn well another weapon in the human arsenal, and the humans sure as fuck can’t build plasma cannons in nuked out city ruins. This is guerrilla war 101. You start small and work you’re way up. Captured weapons help you reach the point at which you can capture bases. Capturing bases lets you build up to make general offensives. If humans can captured advanced weapons all over the planet then human strength will increase far more rapidly then it otherwise would.

The Viet Minh didn’t even have guns AT ALL when they started. They built them out of scrap metal, then they’d go dig a punji stake pit and wait with the piece of shit gun made from drain pipe and a door bolt. When a Japanese and latter French solider put his foot in that pit, they jump up, shoot the guy at point blank range, then take his superior gun and run away. Repeat that a couple times and you have a small armed band which can totally wipe out the next patrol, then take all its weapons. This was repeated over and over again on larger and larger scales and let the Viet Minh become a major military force long before they had any significant external sources of supply. Later the Viet Cong did the same thing to get started.

[Stark]

I guess that's why I wasn't talking to the pompous gasbag in the thread, then, right? I mean, I know this is the universe where terminators are armed with human-usable weapons that they can't use more effectively and marched out over open ground like toy soldiers, but Skynet's terrible facility security is WAY more important than 'look ma our whole base got wiped out but I got this minigun with twenty bullets left'.

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah sorry, I read read you’re post and saw it reply to points I made, and I assumed it was in response to me since I sure as shit don’t see anyone else talking about air dropping weapons. Now if you could just kindly point out the place in which anyone ever claimed all weapons are captured and Ill be fully on you're side. But I don't see it right now.

[Shroom Man 777]

In the original timeline, weren't the plasma weapons already manufactured by companies like General Electric and Westinghouse, meaning that even before the war, plasma weapons were already being manufactured?

[Samuel]

In the original timeline, weren't the plasma weapons already manufactured by companies like General Electric and Westinghouse, meaning that even before the war, plasma weapons were already being manufactured?

I imagine so- Skynet probably just repurposed all the assests it fielded. Of course, why on Earth people were developing plasma weapons...

[Khaat]

In the original timeline, weren't the plasma weapons already manufactured by companies like General Electric and Westinghouse, meaning that even before the war, plasma weapons were already being manufactured?

The intimation was that advanced weapons were being developed, but were not in production. Unfortunately, the money-train of sequels and games led to re-writing the original timeline. Unofficial sources claim that SkyNet mined pre-JD human R&D and carried on with the work. A possible explanation for the GE and Westinghouse brands are manufacturing facilities, or even just major component sources.
*edit* The Terminator asked the gun store owner for a "plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" not a "General Electric R-40W" (as an example.) I never read either of the novelizations, though, so my only current source material is between my ears.

I have too much taste to watch trailers for another Terminator movie, but I find it hilarious that they've made giant mechanical man-soldiers. Worthless for infiltration, needlessly complex for warfare, nerd fanservice. What's not to like?

Yes, the "cinematic majesty" (or whatever frakked excuse) defies the purpose for the damned things. T1: an infiltrator is collected by a TechCom patrol, brought back to the nest, the dogs flip out, at which point it throws off its rags and starts blasting with a plasma cannon. At this point, TechCom already has plasma weapons, though. That was an infiltration unit.

They're doubtless going to re-write the humanoid killer robot canon again, with the 8-foot killer robot from the trailer being a "mainline combat unit" rather than an "infiltrator." It has more in common with the "T-70" from the "Terminator: 3D Experience" show at Universal. Or maybe it just finished sweeping a nest, is damaged and operating in "destroy all humans" mode (and the scale's all wrong?!)

[Swindle1984]

I'd arm infiltrator units with simple handguns, submachine guns, and hand grenades. Silencers would be available for low-profile terminations. Perhaps even a weapon equivelent to the Soviet MSP silenced pistol for eliminating targets as quietly as possible. All Terminators would be outfitted with canisters inside that let them exhale VX nerve agent so they can quietly eliminate entire groups of humans. VX grenades would also be available for clearing out hidden humans.

Combat units would carry M-249 SAW equivelents with multiple reload belts. Or MG-3's with a couple spare barrels to go with the ammunition. Naturally, some Javelin ATGM's and Stinger SAM's with no IFF system would be useful in case the humans sent armor or ground-support aircraft after my Terminators.

I'd also get started on ground and aerial Hunter-Killers ASAP.