Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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From The New York Times, with emphasis added by me for certain relevant points:
Removing Medtronic Heart Cables Is Hard Choice

BOSTON — Pulling a medical device off the market is one thing. Removing it from the bodies of thousands of patients is a lot more complicated and dangerous.

Dr. Laurence M. Epstein, a surgeon at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, specializes in extracting defibrillator cables made by Medtronic.

Consider the Sprint Fidelis, a heart defibrillator cable. In 2007 its maker, Medtronic, stopped selling it after five patients who had the cables died.

But only now is the full scope of the public health problem becoming clear for the Sprint Fidelis, which is still used by 150,000 people in this country.

In the next few years, thousands of those patients may face risky surgical procedures to remove and replace the electrical cable, which connects a defibrillator to a chamber of the heart.


Medtronic estimates that the cable has failed in a little more than 5 percent of patients after 45 months of being implanted. But as a preventive measure, some patients with working cables are having them removed.

Already, four patients have died during extractions. Experts fear that the toll could quickly rise if such procedures are not performed by skilled doctors at medical centers that have performed many of the operations.

“I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg,” said Dr. Charles J. Love, a cardiologist at Ohio State University Medical Center in Columbus, who specializes in cable extractions.

For many of the patients around the country who may need the procedure, finding the right medical center will not be easy.

There is little publicly available data on the volumes and success rates of the procedures at the nation’s hospitals. Some hospitals disclose their own numbers, but many more do not.

“There are people who are doing this that don’t meet the criteria,” said Dr. Bruce Wilkoff, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic.

Even experienced cardiologists at well-regarded hospitals, like Dr. Laurence M. Epstein at Brigham and Women’s Hospital here, consider the procedure challenging.

Dr. Epstein recently operated on a patient, a 63-year-old man, whose Sprint Fidelis cable had become so overgrown with tissue that it was stuck inside a major vein.

To free it, Dr. Epstein cautiously threaded a catheter-guided laser through the blood vessel to dissolve the entrapping tissue. It was a risky move. The deaths of the four Sprint Fidelis patients at other hospitals apparently occurred when less practiced doctors damaged a vein or the heart, causing extensive bleeding.

Finally, Dr. Epstein pulled the cable out. “This was one of the more difficult ones,” said Dr. Epstein, who added that he had removed scores of the Sprint Fidelis cables in the last year without a major complication.

It is not unusual for heart cables, or leads as doctors call them, to eventually wear out or fail, which is why there are doctors who specialize in removing them. What makes the Sprint Fidelis situation stand out is the vast number of patients who got the cable before its recall. A quarter-million people around the world received a Sprint Fidelis in the three years from its introduction in 2004 to its recall in October 2007.

The cable’s chief flaw is the tendency for it to crack, creating electrical problems. The defibrillator may fail to give a heart a life-saving jolt to disrupt a potentially fatal rhythm. Or it may repeatedly discharge, shocking patients for no reason.

Also, when a Sprint Fidelis is used with a device that combines a defibrillator with a pacemaker, the cable’s flaw may interfere with the pacemaker’s ability to keep a patient’s heart beating at a steady rhythm.


Medtronic has given patients some guidance about extractions, like telling them to seek a hospital experienced in the procedure if they decide to have a Sprint Fidelis removed. Though the company has declined to indicate which medical centers have such experience, it recently compiled such a list. Last year, to win approval for a new heart cable from the Food and Drug Administration, the company agreed to provide the F.D.A. with future data from “10 experienced extraction centers,” according to agency records. But Medtronic says it does not plan to make such a list public.

“Medtronic believes that a patient’s physician is in the best position to make decisions related to patient care, including the most appropriate lead extraction center,” the company wrote, in response to a reporter’s question.

Experts say patients should ask a hospital how many of the procedures it has performed, and go to medical centers that do at least 50 a year.

Medtronic has been shielded so far from legal claims over the recalled device. More than 1,000 patient lawsuits involving the Sprint Fidelis have been thrown out because of a ruling last year by the Supreme Court. The court held in a ruling involving a different medical device that federal law protects device makers from liability suits involving some products, as long as the F.D.A. has approved their products.

Some Democrats in Congress have vowed to pass legislation that would override the Supreme Court decision. They cite the Sprint Fidelis problem as one reason, also noting the F.D.A. let it onto the market without extensive testing.

Medtronic is supplying replacement cables, but the cost of the operation to implant a cable, which can run $15,000 to $20,000 is being borne by Medicare or private insurers.

A defibrillator cable can last 15 years or more — much longer than a defibrillator, whose built-in batteries may wear out in five years or so. When the cable does eventually wear out, or break, extracting it is not the only option. Often doctors will leave the old one in place, threading a new cable in place alongside.

Those options pose competing risks, experts say. While extracting a cable can be dangerous, leaving it in place can make it more difficult to remove later, because of in-grown tissue.

In the case of the Sprint Fidelis, doctors will be making decisions for a huge number of patients. Medtronic’s recent estimates indicate the cables are likely to stop working in thousands of people in the next few years.

Meanwhile, even tens of thousands of additional patients for whom the Sprint Fidelis is still working will need to undergo a procedure in the next few years to have the defibrillators themselves replaced, as the batteries wear out. During replacement procedures, doctors will need to weigh the risk of hoping the cables continue to work or replacing them.

Medtronic has said that whether the Sprint Fidelis is broken or is still working, it should be extracted only as a last resort. The company said it did not know how many Sprint Fidelis cables have been extracted.

Specialists take different approaches on the matter. Dr. Wilkoff of the Cleveland Clinic said he planned to reattach a working Sprint Fidelis when he replaces a defibrillator. Because of the clinic’s experience in implanting cable, he said, the failure rate at his hospital has been much lower than at other medical centers.

But other experts like Dr. Epstein, who are concerned about the failure rate, have started pre-emptively removing the cables in some patients. That was the approach he took with his 63-year-old patient, whose life depends on the reliable operation of his heart pacemaker.

Dr. Love of Ohio State, meanwhile, said he had begun routinely removing the Sprint Fidelis when changing defibrillators or pacemakers in younger, more active patients — typically those age 60 or less — because greater physical activity places more stress on a cable, raising the likelihood of its fracturing.

The Heart Rhythm Society, a group representing doctors who implant heart devices, plans to issue guidelines about cable extraction this year. They would urge doctors to perform at least 30 removals under the supervision of an experienced extraction surgeon before operating solo.

But some experts say that it is difficult for doctors to obtain that level of training. And they caution that even well trained physicians need to regularly perform significant numbers of extractions to remain proficient.

The group of device experts, which plans to urge doctors to collect more data about defibrillator cables, has not released a list of hospitals experienced in extractions.

Dr. Epstein said that two of his patients had died of complications during the first 200 extractions of various makes of cables he performed. Since then, he said he had performed 800 procedures without any deaths.

“Of all the procedures I do,” he said, “extraction probably has by far the largest learning curve
So, the major points I am throwing up for discussion are the following:

1) No medical treatment or advance is without consequences. Pacemakers and defibrilators are truly wonderful, life saving technologies for which we should be rightfully grateful to have. On the other hand, we never had to worry about them breaking or malfunctioning when we didn't have them. As malfunction in this case can be fatal, and removal/repair can be complicated, these are not idle concerns. Any person with such a device, regardless of manufacturer, will eventually need them replaced if the patient lives long enough - and a longer life is the point of this device. The better the device the more patients that will outlive their device. This problem will only increase in the future.

2) The problem of repair and replacement is even more complicated in the US, where, as pointed out, these costs are normally borne by either Medicaire or private insurance. However, not all cardiac patients are over 65 or disabled (and thus do not have Medicair) nor are they all covered by private insurance. What about the younger patients with no insurance? Presumably, this is not an issue in countries where there is universal health care, but there might also be debates about costs, and also about when such items should be removed or replaced.

3) These sorts of issues are by no means limited to pacemakers and defibrillators. There is also the issue about outmoded and superseded technology still being used by a patient with other problems. For example, the original cochlear implants were inferior to the modern ones, but replacing one would be very problematic and risky as far as preserving hearing is concerned. Ten years from now cochlear implants will probably be even better than they are now. For this reason, there is an argument in favor of only implanting ONE ear with a cochlear implant and leaving the other unaltered. That way, the patient can take advantage of current technology but still have the option of implanting the untreated ear at a later date with a more advanced implant. Of course, human hearts don't come in pairs so that approach is not feasible for cardiac patients.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

Post by Broomstick »

Just in case anyone is wondering if a response to the OP is called for, how about a discussion as to how to maximize the benefits of such technology while minimizing the harms?
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

I find it disappointing that the manufacturer does not have to provide anything other than a replacement cable, but at the same time I can recognize that it isn't reasonable for them to have to foot the entire procedure bill for replacing it.

There should be some kind of middle ground.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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I think that depends upon the extent to which the defective cables are a result of negligence.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Also due to the way modern manufacturing works, Medtronic probably only designed the cable and then they payed an outsourced third-party Taiwanese/Korean company to manufacture it (since Medtronic probably doesn't own any factories or anything). If it was a negligent design flaw Medtronic should have to pay, but if it was a negligent manufacturing flaw the outsourced company should have to pay for it.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Is there any responsibility on Medtronics' part to ensure that they were distributing a safe product, even if they did not manufacture it?
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Kanastrous wrote:Is there any responsibility on Medtronics' part to ensure that they were distributing a safe product, even if they did not manufacture it?
The point of punishment is to make sure it doesn't happen again. If you punish Medtronics it lets the outsourcer get off scot free. They might be negligent with some other companies product they manufacture. Punishing Medtronics won't accomplish anything it that case.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

Post by K. A. Pital »

Broomstick wrote:On the other hand, we never had to worry about them breaking or malfunctioning when we didn't have them.
Broomstick, the people without these technologies would simply be all dead, as opposed to partly dead due to machine malfunction. I don't see a real dilemma. There is a problem, but the problem is making safer technology, not getting rid of technology in our bodies.

Improvements are nice, but hearts are critical, so post-poning the operations to make use of better tech isn't feasible either. Should cosmonauts not walked into space because old spacecraft was deadlier and less safe than it is now? Yes, technologies improve. Yes, not everyone may be able to use the best because it's not there right now. It's still a great improvement.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Stas Bush wrote:
Broomstick wrote:On the other hand, we never had to worry about them breaking or malfunctioning when we didn't have them.
Broomstick, the people without these technologies would simply be all dead, as opposed to partly dead due to machine malfunction.
In this case, not necessarily. In some of these patients the defibrillator never fires because the crucial criteria for it are never met, or they may go through several battery changes before it fires. These devices are implanted in people at risk of a fatal arrhythmia, not just those who are certain to have one.
I don't see a real dilemma. There is a problem, but the problem is making safer technology, not getting rid of technology in our bodies.
No, the question isn't whether or not we should use such technology - yes we should - but that it's not enough to implant a device and tell someone not to complain about issues that arise from it because, dammit, you're alive and should be grateful.
Improvements are nice, but hearts are critical, so post-poning the operations to make use of better tech isn't feasible either. Should cosmonauts not walked into space because old spacecraft was deadlier and less safe than it is now? Yes, technologies improve. Yes, not everyone may be able to use the best because it's not there right now. It's still a great improvement.
While the first adopters of a new technology are taking a risk such risks can be justified. However, it would not have been right to just settle for the old style spacecraft and never make an effort to improve.

You also need to consider the long term and make contingency plans. The current space station has a "bail out" in the form of a Soyuz ready for evacuation in the event of an emergency. However little thought seems to have been given to what happens to a pacemaker/defibrillator after it stops functioning. Originally they probably were limited to patients with a sharply limited life expectancy. Perhaps the patients weren't expected to outlive the device. Now, however, it is becoming routine for patients to outlive the batteries, and with improvement in medicine, it is becoming routine for at least some patients to outlive the entire device. Yet there is no provision for that, is there? No easy way to remove it, and risks in implanting a new one alongside the old. There is room for improvement.

There is another failure mode for implanted cardiac defibrillators - some of them start firing at random, or they start firing frequently in an inappropriate manner. When one of these devices delivers its shock it's quite painful. Not only does the patient feel it, but if you were near the person you'd notice from their reaction that they experience significant pain. Such devices must have a means of deactivation (and they do) because continuous firing is not something anyone would want to live with. There is also the problem that some patients with terminal conditions will experience continuous shocks as their heart enters a phase of final deterioration and, again, there needs to be a way to turn them off when the device can no longer help the patient but only hurt him.

There are likewise issues with survivors of childhood cancer - such people are more prone to learning disabilities, more likely to have another cancer later in life, they almost always have infertility issues, and in the US it is almost impossible for them to obtain medical or life insurance short of working for a very large corporation. We save their lives but there are consequences down the line that must now be dealt with. In the case of childhood cancer, treatments have been modified to help mitigate some of the long-term damage because it's not enough to simply save a life then dump someone back onto the street with no thought for what comes next.

Sometimes problems can't be easily foreseen. The first generation of cochlear implants made children more vulnerable to meningitis. It was not acceptable to simply say "well, those are the risks", particularly since such implants were not for a life-threatening condition. They have since been modified and apparently that risk has been mitigated, but there are still people with the older implants walking around and they shouldn't just be forgotten.

So, when the transhumanists start going on about cyborg modifications I can't help but think about what happens when a technology is outmoded - is it even possible to remove or upgrade and implant? What are the failure modes and how do you deal with them? Is there a practical way to remove it? Pacemakers and these defibrillators were originally implanted via cutting open someone's chest, which allowed for precise placement and did not require them to be in blood vessels. Now the implantation procedure is via a large bore needle threaded through a vein. The installation is far less traumatic to the patient and less prone to complications (my sister had hers implanted in the morning and was home in time for lunch, and she required neither general anesthesia (just local) nor anything more than very mild pain medications, as opposed to the original major operation requiring weeks of recovery). However, it is this new procedure that results in the leads becoming embedded in the interior of blood vessels and makes removal a more delicate and risky operation. An improvement in on aspect of the technology resulted in another problem down the line. This is not unusual in medicine. More and more people will live longer and longer with artificial parts and these questions need to be addressed.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Dominus Atheos wrote:The point of punishment is to make sure it doesn't happen again. If you punish Medtronics it lets the outsourcer get off scot free. They might be negligent with some other companies product they manufacture. Punishing Medtronics won't accomplish anything it that case.
Assuming for a minute here that neglegance is involved, who says one company need shoulder all the blame? Yes, the manufacturing company made the defective cable, but Medtronics allowed that cable to be implanted without verifying that the cable met their standards. The use it would be put to, after all, demands some tight quality control.
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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

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Kanastrous wrote:Is there any responsibility on Medtronics' part to ensure that they were distributing a safe product, even if they did not manufacture it?
Of course there is - but the liability is limited. There is no way to guarantee ANY medical product is 100% and will never harm anyone ever. Medicine is not an exact science because it deals with people inhabiting organic bodies.

However, even if Medtronic had conducted business in a completely ethical and thorough manner, even if the manufacturers - outsourced or not - had adhered to the highest possible standards there would still, inevitably, have been complications in some percentage of patients. And then there would be the problem of what to do next.

It has been a complaint of transplant recipients that, while the surgery is life-saving and there is support for them getting it, afterwards they're left to twist in the wind. In the US it can be extremely difficult to obtain anti-rejection drugs long term, and in fact one of the major reasons for kidney transplant failure is because the patients can no longer afford the needed drugs, stop taking them, and the organ is destroyed by their own immune system. For kidney patients this phenomena tends to occur about 3 years post transplant - "coincidentally" when Medicare stops paying for their drugs. So... if they haven't obtained an alternate source by then they lose the kidney and go back on dialysis which, oddly enough, IS paid for by Medicare and go back on the transplant list while being scoled for "noncompliance". Aside from that, a transplant patient with, say, a cold or bacterial infection is often refused service by regular doctors who feel they aren't qualified to deal with the complications of treating a minor illness in the context of an immune-suppressed patient, yet transplant doctors may not (and probably are not) qualified to treat, say, gynecological complications of anti-rejection drugs. In other words, these patients have NO doctor who feels qualified to handle certain complications, nowhere to go, and no one seems interested in tackling the problems. This is NOT a good situation in a world where organ transplants and long-term survival are both becoming more common.

OK, so back to the subject in the OP - we have people with short life expectancies and we implant a device that mitigates the problem, in some instances to the point that they now, once again, can expect long term survival! Yay! Oh, wait - it seems there might be complications 5 or 10 years down the line... you know, we have to deal with that now.

Or how about environmental factors? When pacemakers first arrived on the scene it was the 1970's and there was much less electronic stuff in the environment. Microwave ovens, for example, were a rarity in private homes. Then they became common. Uh-oh. The issue of interference between things such as microwaves and metal detectors which were rare when pacemakers were first adopted and that have now become ubiquitous is a serious one. Newer pacemakers are designed with the environment in mind, but ripping out the older ones and replacing them is a problematic solution. What to do? With time the problem will "solve" itself, but inthe meanwhile you have to deal with real people in the here and now.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Transhumanists Note: Downside to Being a Cyborg

Post by Patrick Degan »

Broomstick wrote:1) No medical treatment or advance is without consequences. Pacemakers and defibrilators are truly wonderful, life saving technologies for which we should be rightfully grateful to have. On the other hand, we never had to worry about them breaking or malfunctioning when we didn't have them. As malfunction in this case can be fatal, and removal/repair can be complicated, these are not idle concerns. Any person with such a device, regardless of manufacturer, will eventually need them replaced if the patient lives long enough - and a longer life is the point of this device. The better the device the more patients that will outlive their device. This problem will only increase in the future.
It seems that this is primarily a quality-control problem and secondly a design problem. The most advanced-design device can prove to be worse than useless if any stage of the manufacturing and inspection thereof is sloppy, so a primary challenge is to ensure that the device components all meet the most rigorous standards of manufacturing excellence and endurance to maximise the life of the implant (s).

As for replacement... the only way to make the procedure easier and less risky (which includes the development of instrumentation and procedures to make possible the execution of precision work with lesser degrees of invasiveness or complication) is, unfortunately, a matter of trial experience in the field, which is just about true for any surgery.
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