“I witnessed SGT [REDACTED] placing lotion in her hand and touching a detainee. She was whispering in the detainee’s ear as her hand traveled to the detainee’s lap. I didn’t see her hands (because her body obstructed my view) touch the detainee’s groin, but the detainee started to grimace in pain. Later, a Marine told me that SGT [REDACTED] bent the detainee’s thumbs back. He went on to say that ‘if you think that this is bad, she
has done worse.’”
—FBI Agent, quoted in notes taken during the Government’s investigation
into the alleged abuse of detainees at Guantánamo Bay
The FBI field agents reported more than 211abusive techniques used on detainees during interrogation by Department of Defense interrogators. The techniques include: physical harm to the genitals; forced viewings of homosexual pornography; denial of food and water; disorientation techniques such as sleep deprivation; and religious abuse such as forced baptisms.
Last evening I went to observe an interview of [REDACTED] with [REDACTED]. The adjoining room, observable from the monitoring booth, was occupied by 2 DHS [Defense Humint Services] investigators showing a detainee homosexual porn movies and using a strobe light in the room.
We moved our interview to a different room.
During late 2002,
FBI Special Agent [REDACTED] was present in an observation room at GTMO and observed [REDACTED] (first name unknown) [REDACTED] conducting an interrogation of an unknown detainee. (SA [REDACTED] was present to observe the interrogation occurring in a different interrogation room). [REDACTED] entered the observation room and complained that curtain movement at the observation window was distracting the detainee, although no movement of the curtain had occurred. She directed a marine to duct tape a curtain over the two-way mirror between the interrogation room and the observation room. SA [REDACTED] characterized this action as an attempt to prohibit those in the observation room from witnessing her interaction with the detainee. Through the surveillance camera monitor, SA [REDACTED] then observed [REDACTED] position herself between the detainee and the surveillance camera. The detainee was shackled and his hands were cuffed to his waist. SA [REDACTED] observed [REDACTED] apparently whispering in the detainee’s ear, and caressing and applying lotion to his arms (this was during Ramadan when physical contact with a woman would have been particularly offensive to a Moslem male). On more than one occasion the detainee appeared to be grimacing in pain, and [REDACTED]’s hands appeared to be making some contact with the detainee. Although SA [REDACTED] could not see her hands at all times, he saw them moving towards the detainee’s lap. He also observed the detainee pulling away and against the restraints. Subsequently, the marine who had previously taped the curtain and had been in the interrogation room with [REDACTED] during the interrogation re-entered the observation room. SA [REDACTED] asked what had happened to cause the detainee to grimace in pain. The marine said [REDACTED] had grabbed the detainee’s thumbs and bent them backwards and indicated that she also grabbed his genitals. The marine also implied that her treatment of that detainee was less harsh than her treatment of others by indicating that he had seen her treatment of other detainees result in detainees curling into a fetal position on the floor and crying in pain.
Another interrogator (not sure if military or contractor or other) bragged about making
Detainee #114 listen to satanic black metal music for hour and hours. Then the
interrogator dressed as a Catholic Priest and baptized the detainee in order to save him.
Sexual Tension
One use of sexual tension was to have a female interrogator rub perfume or lotion onto the detainee. The sexual nature of the rubbing is apparent in that various Defense Department personnel refer to the lotion rubbing as a “lap dance.” The Muslim detainees found this contact offensive because it made them unclean and prevented them from praying. One detainee struggled so violently to avoid the contact that he chipped his tooth on a chair.
I never performed a ‘lap dance’ on a detainee. [REDACTED] Both times the technique was authorized and/or suggested by [REDACTED], the Interrogation Control (ICE) Chief. The first incident occurred when my partner and I were interrogating a detainee who refused to stop praying. The translator mentioned that he couldn’t pray if he were ‘unclean.’ Mr. [REDACTED] instructed me to purchase some perfumed lotion and rub it on the detainee. I only rubbed the detainee’s arms. Mr. [REDACTED ] verbally approved the technique.
It is unclear how often lotion was rubbed onto detainees. The Schmidt Report claimed that this behavior was authorized, and that it happened only once. In an interview with General Schmidt, General Miller claimed that he only knew of one incident in which an interrogator touched a detainee with perfume, and that the interrogator was punished. He characterized the incident as a “good faith mistake,” one of a “handful of occurrences.” However, quotes taken from General Schmidt’s own investigation show that that rubbing a detainee with oil or perfume happened more than once, and probably many times. For instance, the interrogator who grabbed the crotch of a detainee and bent his thumbs back used lotion.
Regardless of whether or not this particular technique was approved, the use of sexual tension in general was definitely approved, and even encouraged. “Tiger Team University” was a three week training camp that the new interrogators would attend before transfer to Guantánamo. Female interrogators in training were taught to take advantage of their gender by touching a detainee’s shoulder and knee, and then leaning in to whisper into his ear.
There are descriptions of other kinds of sexual interrogation at Guantánamo. An interrogator straddled a detainee, an interrogator massaged a detainee’s back and neck, an interrogator touched and held a detainee’s hand against his will, and an interrogator told a detainee that she was menstruating and showed him red ink on her hand. It is not clear whether or not these techniques were encouraged or if they happened more than once. However, it is significant that the Schmidt Report found that all of these tactics were in fact approved interrogation techniques.
MPs held down a detainee while [REDACTED] straddled the detainee without placing weight on the detainee. SGT [REDACTED] massaged the detainee’s back and neck over his clothing. I did see SGT [REDACTED] touching and holding a detainee’s hand during an interrogation session. She was invading his space. It was clearly upsetting the detainee. She touched the detainee on his shoulder, showed him the red ink on her hand and said by the way, I am menstruating. The guy threw himself on the floor and started to bang his head because he was so freaked out by the ink.
Unfortunately the Red Cross doesn't seem to think I should be able to copy and past things from their pdfs, so I had to take screen shots.
I can't think of anything to say. I don't know if I'm speechless of if there just are no words.
Scratch that, I can think of one thing. Do you think by the legal definition:
Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
We also have to keep in mind evidence from other sources that were previously discounted but are now validated by the increasing number of allegations that much the claims of such sources, including any possible allegations of other abuses contained within but not here mentioned. Such as:
Force feeding via a tube sans anesthesia and particularly brutal removal of the tube, followed by forced reinsertion for the next feeding (even if the subject displayed a significant unwillingness to resume eating following the first procedure, it was SOP to remove the tube - effectively ensuring that the detainee would be forced to endure having a long plastic tube rammed down their sinuses and throat and then literally torn out repeatedly. I'd say that qualifies as torture. It is alleged that sometimes the same tubes were used, without washing, on other detainees immediately after removal.)
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
Dominus Atheos wrote:I can't think of anything to say. I don't know if I'm speechless of if there just are no words.
Scratch that, I can think of one thing. Do you think by the legal definition:
Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
Obama qualifies as an accessory?
Does the torture count as an offense against the US? In any case I have to say Barry is turning out to be quite the disappointment. Change we can believe in my ass.
It's part of how he got elected, for fuck's sake. He tried to reassure people that he would not start prosecuting right-wingers the moment he got into office. If he did, the howling would have been deafening.
If you want to blame someone, blame the American People. They would never have stood for Obama actually prosecuting any of these people.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:It's part of how he got elected, for fuck's sake. He tried to reassure people that he would not start prosecuting right-wingers the moment he got into office. If he did, the howling would have been deafening.
If you want to blame someone, blame the American People. They would never have stood for Obama actually prosecuting any of these people.
Then he should have done what politicians do and lie and do the opposite.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
Darth Wong wrote:It's part of how he got elected, for fuck's sake. He tried to reassure people that he would not start prosecuting right-wingers the moment he got into office. If he did, the howling would have been deafening.
If you want to blame someone, blame the American People. They would never have stood for Obama actually prosecuting any of these people.
Then he should have done what politicians do and lie and do the opposite.
Well it sure seems like he did just that: First he continues the idiotic bailouts started by Bush, then tries to kill the wiretapping lawsuit, then vows to close Gitmo but reaffirms the Bush stance on Bagram prisoners having no constitutional rights.
The fact that the change is inadequate for a truly enlightened person does not mean there is no change at all, your black/white fallacy notwithstanding.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Flagg wrote:What the fuck is with your avatar Julhelm? You know that comparing black guys to monkeys is racist as fuck, right?
It's probably a take on how the presidency passed from Chimpus Caesar to Obama and there was supposed to be a huge change yet everything still seems the same. Though it will probably come across as a racists monkey/black person comparison instead of the intended Bush/Obama comparison.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Flagg wrote:What the fuck is with your avatar Julhelm? You know that comparing black guys to monkeys is racist as fuck, right?
Like Edi says it's the same one I had a couple years ago. I just added the "Change?" to it to make the point. Actually if you do google for "Bush speech" you'll find the source picture
Darth Wong wrote:It's part of how he got elected, for fuck's sake. He tried to reassure people that he would not start prosecuting right-wingers the moment he got into office. If he did, the howling would have been deafening.
If you want to blame someone, blame the American People. They would never have stood for Obama actually prosecuting any of these people.
Then he should have done what politicians do and lie and do the opposite.
Well it sure seems like he did just that: First he continues the idiotic bailouts started by Bush, then tries to kill the wiretapping lawsuit, then vows to close Gitmo but reaffirms the Bush stance on Bagram prisoners having no constitutional rights.
Where's the change?
Are you truly this stupid - how do you manage to feed yourself on a daily basis if you are actually asking "where's the change?"
Guantanamo Bay - to be closed
Iraq - timetable to get us the fuck out of there
N. Korea, Iran, etc. - No macho "come and get us" blustering. Reasoned, intelligent, thoughtful diplomacy instead.
Europe - No more of this "You're either with us or against us bullshit. Reasoned, intelligent, thoughtful diplomacy.
But no, you're right. He's EXACTLY the same as George W. Bush
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
He isn't different enough. To you maybe he's a universe apart from old Dubya, but to me as a non-US citizen, he's still a nausiatingly (sp?) religious rightwing free market-whore who's turning out to be more of a bog-standard US president every day that passes.
But yeah, I must be stupid because I don't see closing Gitmo (but keeping Bagram) or not giving us euros the cowboy rethoric but still arrogantly telling us who we need to let into the EU (Turkey) or continuing the bailouts to bankers. In fact the last thing is what disgusts me most with him. As long as the US is ruled by capitalist sycophants we'll never see any change, outside the clique of american voters for whom gay marriage, abortion and guns are the most important issues in the universe.
Julhelm wrote:He isn't different enough. To you maybe he's a universe apart from old Dubya, but to me as a non-US citizen, he's still a nausiatingly (sp?) religious rightwing free market-whore who's turning out to be more of a bog-standard US president every day that passes.
But yeah, I must be stupid because I don't see closing Gitmo (but keeping Bagram) or not giving us euros the cowboy rethoric but still arrogantly telling us who we need to let into the EU (Turkey) or continuing the bailouts to bankers. In fact the last thing is what disgusts me most with him. As long as the US is ruled by capitalist sycophants we'll never see any change, outside the clique of american voters for whom gay marriage, abortion and guns are the most important issues in the universe.
You said "where's the change?" and when called on your bullshit moved the goalposts to start whining about not being "different enough." You are stupid if you truly don't see much difference between George W. (I talk to god) Bush and Barack Obama. Just because he's not a leftist in your terms doesn't mean there's no difference. It's about as simpleminded as saying there was no difference between Hitler and Stalin because they were both dictators who killed people, or that there was no difference between Lincoln and Reagan because they were both Republicans.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Julhelm wrote:He isn't different enough. To you maybe he's a universe apart from old Dubya, but to me as a non-US citizen, he's still a nausiatingly (sp?) religious rightwing free market-whore who's turning out to be more of a bog-standard US president every day that passes.
But yeah, I must be stupid because I don't see closing Gitmo (but keeping Bagram) or not giving us euros the cowboy rethoric but still arrogantly telling us who we need to let into the EU (Turkey) or continuing the bailouts to bankers. In fact the last thing is what disgusts me most with him. As long as the US is ruled by capitalist sycophants we'll never see any change, outside the clique of american voters for whom gay marriage, abortion and guns are the most important issues in the universe.
In other words, as long as he ignores your personal pet issues or doesn't handle them the way you want he's no different than the last guy?
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
SancheztheWhaler wrote:You said "where's the change?" and when called on your bullshit moved the goalposts to start whining about not being "different enough." You are stupid if you truly don't see much difference between George W. (I talk to god) Bush and Barack Obama. Just because he's not a leftist in your terms doesn't mean there's no difference. It's about as simpleminded as saying there was no difference between Hitler and Stalin because they were both dictators who killed people, or that there was no difference between Lincoln and Reagan because they were both Republicans.
So your argument is basically that he is indeed very different (and better) than Bush. The problem is that being better than Bush doesn't say much because that's right at the bottom of the barrel along with the likes of Wilson. Just take the things like that of the OP into account. I mean, that's some vile shit right there and this guy, for all of his "change we can believe in" rethoric just tries to put the lid on this and let the guilty go free, just like he lets the ones responsible for the economy meltdown go free. Why should I believe in this man? Because he's better than Bush?
Julhelm wrote:So your argument is basically that he is indeed very different (and better) than Bush. The problem is that being better than Bush doesn't say much because that's right at the bottom of the barrel along with the likes of Wilson. Just take the things like that of the OP into account. I mean, that's some vile shit right there and this guy, for all of his "change we can believe in" rethoric just tries to put the lid on this and let the guilty go free, just like he lets the ones responsible for the economy meltdown go free. Why should I believe in this man? Because he's better than Bush?
That's some interesting goalpost moving. First, he's no different than Bush. Then, he's only marginally different from Bush. Now, Bush was so horrible that unless the man is a saint, he's almost as bad as Bush
Seems to me that the economic plan Obama has put forth is dramatically different from Bush's in many, many ways. For example, Obama's plan makes an actual effort to address skyrocketing healthcare costs. He has an energy policy that doesn't rhyme with "brill mady brill." He is actually making an effort at reducing the burden on the middle class and reducing the deficit at some point, whereas Bush was all about fucking over the middle class to give his wealthy buddies much needed tax breaks.
Only the most douchebaggy of douchebags could possibly characterize Obama's trip to Europe as "arrogantly telling us who we need to let into the EU (Turkey) or continuing the bailouts to bankers." What, for example, did Obama actually say about Turkey? “Moving forward towards Turkish membership in the EU would be an important signal of your commitment to this agenda and ensure that we continue to anchor Turkey firmly in Europe,” he said. Yeah, pretty strong words, especially when compared to Bush's "with us or against us" bullshit. No difference between Bush and Obama whatsoever.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Julhelm wrote:He isn't different enough. To you maybe he's a universe apart from old Dubya, but to me as a non-US citizen, he's still a nausiatingly (sp?) religious rightwing free market-whore who's turning out to be more of a bog-standard US president every day that passes.
We once had a president that tried to tell the country it was going the wrong way and that we needed to work hard to change course. His name was Jimmy Carter and he ended his first term with a 31% approval rating and was defeated by Ronald Reagan. Reagan went on to become canonized by the Republican Party and there's still a huge swath of the population that thinks he was a really swell guy, while Carter is (to exaggerate) "history's greatest monster!" That, in a nutshell, should inform you quite well of the political character of the American electorate.
Now, you tell me, should Obama tread lightly and try to compromise his way into being able to achieve some goals, or should he martyr himself on principle to satisfy your lofty ideals?
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar? "On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it."- RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
That said, I'll agree I don't find Obama terribly satisfying either. I'd still vastly, vastly prefer him over McCain, but for the most part I've just gone back to the tired resignation of accepting that most people who make it to state or federal government are worthless parasites.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar? "On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it."- RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
Julhelm wrote:He isn't different enough. To you maybe he's a universe apart from old Dubya, but to me as a non-US citizen, he's still a nausiatingly (sp?) religious rightwing free market-whore who's turning out to be more of a bog-standard US president every day that passes.
I think we don't have to worry about the religious part at least. He's already getting shit for not having gone to church enough yet. I wasn't worried about him being a Muslim, I was worried about him being a Christian. Luckily it looks, so far, like my fears were misplaced. He spouts just enough bullshit to placate retarded swing voters. An intelligent person might say that he shouldn't have to pander to imaginary friends, and I would agree. But I would rather him go through some lip service than take foreign relations advice from a burning bush.
