Somalia Pirates seize US-flagged cargo ship

[ray245]

What I want to know is the answer to the most obvious question now that the crisis is over.

The piracy issue does not end with the escape of the Captain. I will be more interested to see how will the pirates deal with the hostage and any future ships that they are going to attack.

[KrauserKrauser]

I'll be more interested in who gets the director's chair and who they choose for Lead Man (Captain), Lead Bad Guy (Theoretical Pirate Ringleader) and what love story they try to stuff into the plot.

I say Jason Statham for SEAL badassery.

[Balrog]

What's weird is that this turned out almost just like your typical action flick. The only difference being that the Captain didn't kick the Head Pirate's ass himself as the loathsome evil Pirates are being sniped by Super-SEALs.

If the pirates do end up killing hostages, that's only going to galvanize developed countries to take action and, at the very least, wipe out these pirate bases on the coast. Forcing companies to pay million-dollar ransoms is one thing, killing your citizens is another.

[FSTargetDrone]

What's weird is that this turned out almost just like your typical action flick. The only difference being that the Captain didn't kick the Head Pirate's ass himself as the loathsome evil Pirates are being sniped by Super-SEALs.

No, in the movie, the captain will roll onto his back, kick the pirate in the back of the head, pull his knees up to his chest, get his bound hands under his feet and with still-bound arms in front of his body, use the cord to strangle the now-dazed pirate as shots ring out, dispatching the other two. Then he will leap into the water as the destroyer drops a main gun round into the lifeboat, causing it to explode in a roiling ball of flame reaching dozens of feet into the air (as if were loaded with several 55-gallon drums of highly volatile fuel). The captain will pop his head above the water and as he struggles to keep afloat, a helicopter will drop another SEAL next to him. The SEAL, brandishing a 2-foot long blade, slices the bindings around the captain's wrist apart while simultaneously screaming "HANG ON!" and "DON'T YOU GIVE UP!" Cue end titles as the chopper reels the two men out of the water and they all fly off into the setting rising sun.

If the pirates do end up killing hostages, that's only going to galvanize developed countries to take action and, at the very least, wipe out these pirate bases on the coast. Forcing companies to pay million-dollar ransoms is one thing, killing your citizens is another.

Something needs to be done and now that we've seen an escalation of the response with respect to the French and now the US, things won't be the same.

[Broomstick]

Yes, they could be that stupid. We just don't know yet if they are or not.

[Aratech]

Yes, they could be that stupid. We just don't know yet if they are or not.

Never assume anything in these situations. There are no depths to which Human stupidity will not sink.

That said, for the most part, I find myself in agreement with Mr. Wong. U.S. boots on the ground cannot be spared right now, as thanks to an individual who shall not be named, they're tied up elsewhere. What's the cheapest form of air strike one could hit these places with?

[MKSheppard]

What's the cheapest form of air strike one could hit these places with?

A 225 kiloton one.

What?

Pirates have been traditionally considered the enemy of all mankind, so I think the use of nuclear weapons is acceptable.

[Aratech]

What's the cheapest form of air strike one could hit these places with?

A 225 kiloton one.

What?

Pirates have been traditionally considered the enemy of all mankind, so I think the use of nuclear weapons is acceptable.

Meh, if you want to use WMDs, just use a chemical weapon like VX. Cheaper, just as quick and thorough, and damn if it isn't easier to clean up.

Joking about WMDs aside, I know these guys have more RPG-7s than you can shake a stick at. How much of a danger would they be to a squad of AH-64s or similar attack helicopter in that type of situation?

[Cycloneman]

They have to realize if they kill their hostages there is nothing standing between them and a helicopter or ship sent in to machine gun anything that moves on ships they captire.

Their threats of retaliation are just angry venting - once they cool down, they've got to be rational enough to realize killing hostages are just going to make things worse. These pirates can't be that stupid.

Yeah, because not killing hostages has worked out very well for the pirates, right? I mean, this topic isn't entirely about some pirates getting shot and killed for taking hostages while not killing them, right? No, it would be very smart of them to let the US just kill some of their own and then never do anything about it, thus preventing the US from doing it again.

If the next time the US tries to use military force to get a hostage back, they just kill the hostage, do you think the US is going to keep doing that many more times? What have they got to lose? Their lives? This whole fiasco shows the pirates that by the time the USN shows up, you're basically dead anyway. Why let them get their hostage back?

Also, let's kill hundreds of thousands of civilian targets in retaliation to some lost shipping profits and one dead Taiwanese sailor. America, fuck yeah!

[Eulogy]

The most relevant thing now will see how well we treat the pirate who did surrender. If we toss him in prison for a few years, he may be rehabilitated, but most importantly, it can show the other pirates that hurting the hostage is certain death, escape is impossible, and surrender really isn't such a bad option. The rational individual would thus surrender, saving the lives of everyone involved.

The rational pirate boss might go with kill the hostage as deterrant, but again, the boss can't punish you for breaking his rules while you're safely held in a prison cell, so there is no good reason for the underlings to obey.

This assumes that A) the pirates ARE rational (and we all know how many people tend to be rational!), B) the pirates know that they will be spared if they surrender and C) the pirate boss has no recourse against insuborinate underlings. For all you know, the boss may have simply threatened the lives of the pirate's families who will NOT of course be imprisoned with the pirates; he says that he will kill the loved ones of pirates who don't report back within 2 weels for example. Underhanded? Yes, but these are pirates we're talking about.

There's nothing preventing a pirate boss from using his ill-gotten gains to hunt down and punish former minions as he sees fit. It's irrational, yes, but expecting pirates to be rational and intelligent is folly.

[Peptuck]

Also, let's kill hundreds of thousands of civilian targets in retaliation to some lost shipping profits and one dead Taiwanese sailor. America, fuck yeah!

Just out of curiosity, were you really stupid enough to think the jokes about using WMDs against pirate bases were serious?

[JointStrikeFighter]

Shep is always serious about WMDs.

[Chris OFarrell]

You know, those navy SEAL's were apparently on the scene awfully quick. And given the demands for special forces in the WOT, I can't think they were flown out of Pearl just for this.

You know, I really wouldn't be surprised if the Somalian coastline wasn't crawling with SEAL teams, SBS, SAS, French Special Forces and the like, invisibly and carefully making recon runs against the major pirate strongholds, mapping out activity and getting a lock on as many of the hostage locations as possible, right now. To give the maximum number of options for the allied forces in dealing with this.

And the presence of that LHD does suggest there are a number of assault troops also in the area...

I wonder if there really is a steady buildup being undertaken, as a possible prelude to a big opp...

[Lonestar]

You know, those navy SEAL's were apparently on the scene awfully quick. And given the demands for special forces in the WOT, I can't think they were flown out of Pearl just for this.

If I were to GUESS....


I'd say that they were parachuted in during the night on the side of the Bainbridge opposite the lifeboat, then the Bainbridge picked them up.

I mean, it's a given that there are SEALs oerating in Iraq, so it isn't like CENTCOM wouldn't have any on hand.

And the presence of that LHD does suggest there are a number of assault troops also in the area...

There's always an LHD in the area(in case the security situation in Iraq suddenly spirals out of control and we need more troops fast). The presence of one or two doesn't signify a buildup.

[The Spartan]

Why would we have to go that far? They may have been operating in Africa for any number of reasons. That area is a hotbed of Islamic terrorists isn't it?

[Cycloneman]

Just out of curiosity, were you really stupid enough to think the jokes about using WMDs against pirate bases were serious?

Sorry, I got this thread, which has only had vague rumblings about punitive bombings (that were serious, at least) confused with the other thread about Somali pirates where peope were out and out advocating bombing civilian targets. My bad.

[Lonestar]

Why would we have to go that far? They may have been operating in Africa for any number of reasons. That area is a hotbed of Islamic terrorists isn't it?

huh?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, going to sea requires boats, and the easiest thing remains raids which, rather than targeting people, targets boats, and simply sinks as many as possible that are in the ports along the coast. This would not be part, and I suspect cluster munitions would in fact work excellently for demolishingly large numbers of dhows along the shoreline and other such small craft, the trawlers could be overkilled with guided bombs, though most of the trawlers are actually hijacked ships, so it makes sense to make them a target of cutting-out expeditions just like the larger vessels that have been taken. Naval gunfire support would be focused around driving armed men away from sites where cutting out raids or burning of boats along the shore is required to be conducted by landing parties. Though this would invariably cause some civilian casualties, it would keep them relatively minimal compared to the other effective proposals, and no war can be conducted without civilian casualties, anyway.

[KrauserKrauser]

But why would you target what are obviously harmless fishing vessels? How will the villagers feed their children? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[Erik von Nein]

I know this is kind of late in the game for a response to the whole hostage rescue pulled off by the Navy, but I've been away from a computer for a while. I just had to share this bit of wisdom.

First thing upon hearing of the captain being rescued someone I know proclaimed "Well, Obama got to kill his first black people. So much for him talking things through."

I ... who ... wha ...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

But why would you target what are obviously harmless fishing vessels? How will the villagers feed their children? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Dump ration bars out of C-130s.

[MKSheppard]

"Well, Obama got to kill his first black brown people. So much for him talking things through."

Fixed it for you.

[Ryan Thunder]

But why would you target what are obviously harmless fishing vessels? How will the villagers feed their children? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

We should charge them for the ordinance we drop on them, too.

[The Spartan]

Why would we have to go that far? They may have been operating in Africa for any number of reasons. That area is a hotbed of Islamic terrorists isn't it?

huh?

I seem to recall that the area around and including Somalia is home to a great number of hardcore (more or less) Islamic factions and that terrorists use the area for training or as a safehaven. Though maybe calling it a hotbed was over the top.

[Aratech]

But why would you target what are obviously harmless fishing vessels? How will the villagers feed their children? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Dump ration bars out of C-130s.

Didn't we accidentally kill a few people in Kosovo doing that back in late 90's...

...

Is this in fact a subtle joke in reference to that?