Fact of the day: only whites contributed to Nazi defeat

[Coyote]

Well, there is the embarrassment that the dark-skinned Colonial troops fought on four years of war while the 'superior' white homelanders took all of two weeks to become willing Nazi lapdogs...

You do realise that most colonial troops, certainly those in North Africa, actually served the Vichy? In Madagascar, Lebanon, Syria and North Africa they resisted Allied invasions up until the point they'd become fait accompli, when they then switched sides.

I thought the Moroccan troops put up token resistance and then switched sides?

The colnials in, say, Syria probably wanted to sit the whole thing out.

Oh, well, it was a nice thought.

[PeZook]

The Russians pulled off something similarily pathetic around the same time when they marched into Warsaw, with Soviet soldiers dressed up in Polish military uniforms, trying to pass off as Polish!

Yeah, I guess there were no Poles in the 1st Army of the People's Polish Armed Forces units that marched into Warsaw (and even held a parade in 19.01.1945), right?

The Russians pulled some nasty propaganda shit in their time, but this wasn't one of them. Stop repeating myths, please.

[wautd]

The units excluded were West African (Senegalese), not North African. Not sure the French recognised North African units as 'inferior' but certainly in WW1 the Senegalese units gained a reputation not only for ferocity but outright barbarism on both sides of the line - simply refused to take prisoners and would do some nasty things to live Germans who fell in their hands.

A few month ago I saw an interesting docu about colonial forces in the Great War. I was suprised to see that French black soldiers were actually highly respected by their commanders (fierce fighters) or the population who enjoyed to see strange and interesting cultures. It was a high contrast to black soldiers in the American army, which were segregated in seperate units and weren't allowed to fight (lucky for them).
Lots of their savage and barbaric reputation came actually from German propaganda (who didn't used black soldiers themselves).

[PainRack]

That's what the article says, but the article manages to omit that the French themselves almost certainly didn't want a bunch of darkies liberating Paris (i.e., no black savages kissing virtuous white Frenchwomen). I question the validity of this program, myself, given the whitewashing of British treatment of its Indian soldiers and the blame being placed entirely on the US.

Oh bollocks. The French had no problems with black troops entering Paris in 1918, ditto to other material comfort policies in WW1. Why would that suddenly change in 1945?
This isn't to argue that africians weren't discriminated against in WW2, but any such policy was based more on the idea that the homeland metropolitian was more important than the colonial outskirts.

[Broomstick]

It was a high contrast to black soldiers in the American army, which were segregated in seperate units and weren't allowed to fight (lucky for them).

Groups such as the Tuskegee Airmen and the 92nd Infantry "Buffalo Soldiers" would probably dispute your "weren't allowed to fight" statement.

[PeZook]

Groups such as the Tuskegee Airmen would probably dispute your "weren't allowed to fight" statement.

They were formed due to fighter pilot shortages and were expected to perform inadequately anyway. A bit like foreign fighter squadrons during the Battle Of England: fully trained and qualified pilots from various European countries weren't allowed to fly until personnel shortages forced it.

Of course, a lot of frontline lily-white American units had their lifeblood delivered to them by black truck drivers - an ungrateful, but extremely important job

[wautd]

It was a high contrast to black soldiers in the American army, which were segregated in seperate units and weren't allowed to fight (lucky for them).

Groups such as the Tuskegee Airmen and the 92nd Infantry "Buffalo Soldiers" would probably dispute your "weren't allowed to fight" statement.

I was talking about the Great War. The Tuskegee Airmen were created during WWII and as far as I know the Buffalo Soldiers didn't saw combat in WWI

[Broomstick]

In that case, I got the time frame wrong, which I will attribute to insufficient caffeine prior to posting.

[Thanas]

Actually, the Maroccane troops got an incredibly bad reputation for them committing atrocities on a large scale. For example, in some parts of Italy, to be maroccained was a synonym for getting raped for several decades.

There are also very horrifying diaries to be read in the cities under french control in Germany who were garrisoned by maroccane troops. A historian made a huge study about the things they did and although it is written in a neutral tone and quite fairly written, I literally couldn't bring myself to finish it due to the disgusting things in them.

So no, for once I do not blame the allies for not wanting them running around in Paris.

[wautd]

Actually, the Maroccane troops got an incredibly bad reputation for them committing atrocities on a large scale. For example, in some parts of Italy, to be maroccained was a synonym for getting raped for several decades.

There are also very horrifying diaries to be read in the cities under french control in Germany who were garrisoned by maroccane troops. A historian made a huge study about the things they did and although it is written in a neutral tone and quite fairly written, I literally couldn't bring myself to finish it due to the disgusting things in them.

So no, for once I do not blame the allies for not wanting them running around in Paris.

Technically, Maroccans are white

[Thanas]

Not all of them, some have a darker skintone. And I am pretty sure they were not classified as "whites" by the racists.

[Jade Falcon]

A bit like foreign fighter squadrons during the Battle Of England: fully trained and qualified pilots from various European countries weren't allowed to fly until personnel shortages forced it.

Battle of England?

[Big Phil]

That's what the article says, but the article manages to omit that the French themselves almost certainly didn't want a bunch of darkies liberating Paris (i.e., no black savages kissing virtuous white Frenchwomen). I question the validity of this program, myself, given the whitewashing of British treatment of its Indian soldiers and the blame being placed entirely on the US.

Oh bollocks. The French had no problems with black troops entering Paris in 1918, ditto to other material comfort policies in WW1. Why would that suddenly change in 1945?
This isn't to argue that africians weren't discriminated against in WW2, but any such policy was based more on the idea that the homeland metropolitian was more important than the colonial outskirts.

What the hell does black troops passing through Paris on their way to the front in 1918 have to do with black troops being seen liberating Paris in 1944?

[Isolder74]

A bit like foreign fighter squadrons during the Battle Of England: fully trained and qualified pilots from various European countries weren't allowed to fly until personnel shortages forced it.

Battle of England?

Battle of Britain. Otherwise known as The Blitz. You are nit picking.

The names are interchangeable.

[TheKwas]

Actually, the Maroccane troops got an incredibly bad reputation for them committing atrocities on a large scale. For example, in some parts of Italy, to be maroccained was a synonym for getting raped for several decades.

There are also very horrifying diaries to be read in the cities under french control in Germany who were garrisoned by maroccane troops. A historian made a huge study about the things they did and although it is written in a neutral tone and quite fairly written, I literally couldn't bring myself to finish it due to the disgusting things in them.

So no, for once I do not blame the allies for not wanting them running around in Paris.

Technically, Maroccans are white

How can you 'technically' be white?

[Stark]

Dont' be asinine - various racist groups call all kinds of groups 'white'. After all, Australian racists dont' seem to consider Greeks as 'proper' white people, who only come from the Commonwealth and MAYBE western europe (but not Spain).

[TheKwas]

...Are you disagreeing with me?

My point was that I don't understand how you could call a group 'technically white' when 'whiteness' is defined differently by different groups with no one definition reigning as 'technically right'.

[Stark]

Oh I see, I thought you were saying 'whiteness' was an obvious distinction.

[The Yosemite Bear]

last time I checked Ira Hayes wasn't even a US Citizen, and he raised the second flag on sarabachi

[MKSheppard]

Actually, the Maroccane troops got an incredibly bad reputation for them committing atrocities on a large scale. For example, in some parts of Italy, to be maroccained was a synonym for getting raped for several decades.

Fun Fact:

When Black US Troops first penetrated into germany, the locals were fucking terrified of them. Everyone was like "what the hell?" until they finally got the story about the French Colonial Troops. And they're like "What the hell", and things calmed down a lot once the Germans learned that the US Black troops were from the same culture (European/American) as them -- not like the French Colonial Troops.

[Thanas]

Chocolate also helped.

[Broomstick]

My limited understanding of the situation is that by 1945 pretty much ANY food given would go a long way to proving good intentions.

I had an uncle who almost starved to death in a German-run prison camp. He also said that by the time the Allies showed up the main difference between the American POW's and the guards was that the Americans got shipped back to a country where food was abundant, and the Germans stayed where food was scarce.

It took my uncle two years to regain his normal weight and health after that, and he was never quite as strong and never had quite as much stamina again. He survived - I sometimes wonder if the men guarding him did or not.

[Thanas]

My limited understanding of the situation is that by 1945 pretty much ANY food given would go a long way to proving good intentions.

The americans were particularly famous for handing out chocolate and cigarettes. And for being not as engaged in looting as the soviets and french, but worse looters than the British.

[Jade Falcon]

Battle of Britain. Otherwise known as The Blitz. You are nit picking.

The names are interchangeable.

Are they, just never heard anyone call it that before.

[MKSheppard]

The americans were particularly famous for handing out chocolate and cigarettes.

Fun fact; but a study done by the U.S. Army showed that thefts went down at military depots around Germany when signs in German saying "US MILITARY INSTALLATION/PROPERTY OF US GOVERNMENT/DO NOT STEAL" were put up in stead of live guards?

Reason? The live guards went "aw, you poor thing, here go inside, take a few C rations, and perhaps some chocolate bars"; and looked the other way.