[Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

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[Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Ten Years Later
10 years later, the real story behind Columbine
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY
They weren't goths or loners.

The two teenagers who killed 13 people and themselves at suburban Denver's Columbine High School 10 years ago next week weren't in the "Trenchcoat Mafia," disaffected videogamers who wore cowboy dusters. The killings ignited a national debate over bullying, but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied — in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and "fags."

MAPPING SCHOOL VIOLENCE: Major incidents since 1983
LESSONS FROM COLUMBINE: More security and outreach
PROGRAMS: How schools, parents, citizens help prevent violence

Their rampage put schools on alert for "enemies lists" made by troubled students, but the enemies on their list had graduated from Columbine a year earlier. Contrary to early reports, Harris and Klebold weren't on antidepressant medication and didn't target jocks, blacks or Christians, police now say, citing the killers' journals and witness accounts. That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.

A decade after Harris and Klebold made Columbine a synonym for rage, new information — including several books that analyze the tragedy through diaries, e-mails, appointment books, videotape, police affidavits and interviews with witnesses, friends and survivors — indicate that much of what the public has been told about the shootings is wrong.

In fact, the pair's suicidal attack was planned as a grand — if badly implemented — terrorist bombing that quickly devolved into a 49-minute shooting rampage when the bombs Harris built fizzled.

"He was so bad at wiring those bombs, apparently they weren't even close to working," says Dave Cullen, author of Columbine, a new account of the attack.

So whom did they hope to kill?

Everyone — including friends.

What's left, after peeling away a decade of myths, is perhaps more comforting than the "good kids harassed into retaliation" narrative — or perhaps not.

It's a portrait of Harris and Klebold as a sort of In Cold Blood criminal duo — a deeply disturbed, suicidal pair who over more than a year psyched each other up for an Oklahoma City-style terrorist bombing, an apolitical, over-the-top revenge fantasy against years of snubs, slights and cruelties, real and imagined.

Along the way, they saved money from after-school jobs, took Advanced Placement classes, assembled a small arsenal and fooled everyone — friends, parents, teachers, psychologists, cops and judges.

"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."

Deceiving the adults

Harris, who conceived the attacks, was more than just troubled. He was, psychologists now say, a cold-blooded, predatory psychopath — a smart, charming liar with "a preposterously grand superiority complex, a revulsion for authority and an excruciating need for control," Cullen writes.

Harris, a senior, read voraciously and got good grades when he tried, pleasing his teachers with dazzling prose — then writing in his journal about killing thousands.

"I referred to him — and I'm dating myself — as the Eddie Haskel of Columbine High School," says Principal Frank DeAngelis, referring to the deceptively polite teen on the 1950s and '60s sitcom Leave it to Beaver. "He was the type of kid who, when he was in front of adults, he'd tell you what you wanted to hear."

When he wasn't, he mixed napalm in the kitchen .

According to Cullen, one of Harris' last journal entries read: "I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't … say, 'Well that's your fault,' because it isn't, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. No no no don't let the weird-looking Eric KID come along."

As he walked into the school the morning of April 20, Harris' T-shirt read: Natural Selection.

Klebold, on the other hand, was anxious and lovelorn, summing up his life at one point in his journal as "the most miserable existence in the history of time," Langman notes.

Harris drew swastikas in his journal; Klebold drew hearts.

As laid out in their writings, the contrast between the two was stark.

Harris seemed to feel superior to everyone — he once wrote, "I feel like God and I wish I was, having everyone being OFFICIALLY lower than me" — while Klebold was suicidally depressed and getting angrier all the time. "Me is a god, a god of sadness," he wrote in September 1997, around his 16th birthday.

Klebold also was paranoid. "I have always been hated, by everyone and everything," he wrote.

On the day of the attacks, his T-shirt read: Wrath.

Shooter profiles emerge

Columbine wasn't the first K-12 school shooting. But at the time it was by far the worst, and the first to play out largely on live television.

The U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Education Department soon began studying school shooters. In 2002, researchers presented their first findings: School shooters, they said, followed no set profile, but most were depressed and felt persecuted.

Princeton sociologist Katherine Newman, co-author of the 2004 book Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings, says young people such as Harris and Klebold are not loners — they're just not accepted by the kids who count. "Getting attention by becoming notorious is better than being a failure."

The Secret Service found that school shooters usually tell other kids about their plans.

"Other students often even egg them on," says Newman, who led a congressionally mandated study on school shootings. "Then they end up with this escalating commitment. It's not a sudden snapping."

Langman, whose book profiles 10 shooters, including Harris and Klebold, found that nine suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts, a "potentially dangerous" combination, he says. "It is hard to prevent murder when killers do not care if they live or die. It is like trying to stop a suicide bomber."

At the time, Columbine became a kind of giant national Rorschach test. Observers saw its genesis in just about everything: lax parenting, lax gun laws, progressive schooling, repressive school culture, violent video games, antidepressant drugs and rock 'n' roll, for starters.

Many of the Columbine myths emerged before the shooting stopped, as rumors, misunderstandings and wishful thinking swirled in an echo chamber among witnesses, survivors, officials and the news media.

Police contributed to the mess by talking to reporters before they knew facts — a hastily called news conference by the Jefferson County sheriff that afternoon produced the first headline: "Twenty-five dead in Colorado."

A few inaccuracies took hours to clear up, but others took weeks or months — sometimes years — as authorities reluctantly set the record straight.

Former Rocky Mountain News reporter Jeff Kass, author of a new book, Columbine: A True Crime Story, says police played a game of "Open Records charades."

In one case, county officials took five years just to acknowledge that they had met in secret after the attacks to discuss a 1998 affidavit for a search warrant on Harris' home — it was the result of a complaint against him by the mother of a former friend. Harris had threatened her son on his website and bragged that he had been building bombs.

Police already had found a small bomb matching Harris' description near his home — but investigators never presented the affidavit to a judge.

They also apparently didn't know that Harris and Klebold were on probation after having been arrested in January 1998 for breaking into a van and stealing electronics.

The search finally took place, but only after the shootings.

Meticulous planning

What's now beyond dispute — largely from the killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off.

Looking for answers at home

Since 1999, many people have looked to the boys' parents for answers, but a transcript of their 2003 court-ordered deposition to the victims' parents remains sealed until 2027.

The Klebolds spoke to New York Times columnist David Brooks in 2004 and impressed Brooks as "a well-educated, reflective, highly intelligent couple" who spent plenty of time with their son. They said they had no clues about Dylan's mental state and regretted not seeing that he was suicidal.

Could the parents have prevented the massacre? The FBI special agent in charge of the investigation has gone on record as having "the utmost sympathy" for the Harris and Klebold families.

"They have been vilified without information," retired supervisory special agent Dwayne Fuselier tells Cullen.

Cullen, who has spent most of the past decade poring over the record, comes away with a bit of sympathy.

For one thing, he notes, Harris' parents "knew they had a problem — they thought they were dealing with it. What kind of parent is going to think, 'Well, maybe Eric's a mass murderer.' You just don't go there."

He got a good look at the boys' writings only in the past couple of years. Among the revelations: Eric Harris was financing what could well have been the biggest domestic terrorist attack on U.S. soil on wages from a part-time job at a pizza parlor.

"One of the scary things is that money was one of the limiting factors here," Cullen says.

Had Harris, then 18, put off the attacks for a few years and landed a well-paying job, he says, "he could be much more like Tim McVeigh," mixing fertilizer bombs like those used in Oklahoma City in 1995. As it was, he says, the fact that Harris carried out the attack when he did probably saved hundreds of lives.

"His limited salary probably limited the number of people who died."

Contributing: Marilyn Elias, USA TODAY
In summary: The Columbine attack had no possibility whatsoever of any defense short of a teacher with a gun. These were not bullied kids, they weren't militant atheists, and they had no agenda beyond killing. They were simply murderous sociopaths.

The only defense against this is prompt and vigorous application of deadly force. Sociopathy is indeed lethal; let's defend ourselves against it as if our lives depended on it. They indeed do.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Kodiak »

excerpt wrote:The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.
Thank goodness they couldn't figure out how to wire explosives properly, or else a national tragedy would have become a national disaster. :shock:
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Solauren »

Among the revelations: Eric Harris was financing what could well have been the biggest domestic terrorist attack on U.S. soil on wages from a part-time job at a pizza parlor.
I don't know why this is surprising. Anyone with the right level of will can make a low paying job work for them
Had Harris, then 18, put off the attacks for a few years and landed a well-paying job, he says, "he could be much more like Tim McVeigh," mixing fertilizer bombs like those used in Oklahoma City in 1995. As it was, he says, the fact that Harris carried out the attack when he did probably saved hundreds of lives.
More then likely, Harris
#1 - Was getting Impatient. After over a year of planning, he was probably getting edgy.
#2 - Realiszed that the people he'd been going to school with and hated were probably mostly gone at the end of the year. He didn't have the time.
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: In summary: The Columbine attack had no possibility whatsoever of any defense short of a teacher with a gun.
Not entirely true. However, a Teacher with a gun would have been a massive impediment.
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: These were not bullied kids, they weren't militant atheists, and they had no agenda beyond killing. They were simply murderous sociopaths.
I've suspected this for a long time. Bullied kids generally 'snap' as loners. I speak from experience. Fortunately, I was no where near this level of social mal-adjustment.
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
The only defense against this is prompt and vigorous application of deadly force.

Sociopathy is indeed lethal; let's defend ourselves against it as if our lives depended on it. They indeed do.
Agree. However, a simple additional line of defense I've long argued for could have hindered, if not halted, this attack before it got inside the school.

I personally believe that chemical-sniffing dogs should be posted at all schools. This would prevent crap like this, and be an offset to zero-drug policies.

I mean, if a drug-sniffing dog causes a student to get searched, and the search turns up a legal medicine, the school's now in the clear, as the police didn't do anything about it.

On the other side, if it turned up a tank of propane gas, well, something like this may have just been prevented. The after incident investigation would show the threat level that was neutralized.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by erik_t »

The cost of such a universal chemical-sniffing program beggars the imagination. Most schools I've attended have several entrances and exits, the dogs need handlers, and neither comes cheap.

There are on the order of 125,000 schools in the US. Total annual cost for a trained dog (with handler, facilities, etc) can be estimated at $100,000; probably somewhat higher if you are insisting on police dogs. Even at two doors per school (I've NEVER attended a school with less than four, YMMV), you're looking at $25 billion (with a B) per year.

Is this really the best use of $25 billion you can come up with?
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Solauren »

No, I'm sorry, you're right.

Better to waste it on things like bailing out pyramid-scams disguised as financial insitutions, and rescuing bloated, out-dated and mis-managed companies, then protecting children.

Compared to the recent financial bailouts, 25 Billion to protect schools is nothing.
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It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Explosives and drug sniffing dogs cannot work for more then half an hour at a time before the dog becomes unable to concentrate on the task. It’s totally infeasible to try to use them as a blanket wall of protection. We don’t even do that at airports.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by General Zod »

Solauren wrote:No, I'm sorry, you're right.

Better to waste it on things like bailing out pyramid-scams disguised as financial insitutions, and rescuing bloated, out-dated and mis-managed companies, then protecting children.

Compared to the recent financial bailouts, 25 Billion to protect schools is nothing.
Exactly how frequent do you think school shootings are to justify the massive expense, anyway? Bringing up bailouts is a ridiculous red herring.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Knife »

Kodiak wrote:
excerpt wrote:The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.
Thank goodness they couldn't figure out how to wire explosives properly, or else a national tragedy would have become a national disaster. :shock:
Militia wannabe wankers not withstanding, it actually takes training and experience instead of reading it out of some right wing or left wing revolutionary bullshit blog
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by erik_t »

General Zod wrote:
Solauren wrote:No, I'm sorry, you're right.

Better to waste it on things like bailing out pyramid-scams disguised as financial insitutions, and rescuing bloated, out-dated and mis-managed companies, then protecting children.

Compared to the recent financial bailouts, 25 Billion to protect schools is nothing.
Exactly how frequent do you think school shootings are to justify the massive expense, anyway? Bringing up bailouts is a ridiculous red herring.
Not even shootings, but attempted bombings!


It's pretty clear whose frothing ravings we can ignore on this subject.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by General Zod »

erik_t wrote: Not even shootings, but attempted bombings!


It's pretty clear whose frothing ravings we can ignore on this subject.
Bombings, shootings, either way actual attacks on schools are minimal enough there's no conceivable way to justify that kind of expense. :) The only way I can imagine someone could possibly think they're more frequent than they are is if because whenever they do happen the media plays the same damn stories 24/7 for weeks on end.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Knife »

lol, basic security is government overspending
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by General Zod »

Knife wrote:lol, basic security is government overspending
I'm not sure I'd consider bomb-sniffing dogs "basic" security. . .
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by erik_t »

Knife wrote:lol, basic security is government overspending
Would you please clarify your post? I really hope you don't mean what I think you mean.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by erik_t »

A follow-up.
US Dept. of Education wrote: link

Between July 1, 1992, and June 30, 1999, no consistent pattern of increase or decrease was observed in the number of homicides at school (figure 1.2 and table 1.1). During this period, between 28 and 34 homicides of school-age youth occurred at school in each school year.
Assuming all of those deaths were by bombing (they weren't), and assuming trained dogs could stop all bombings (they couldn't), we're talking in the neighborhood of one billion (again, with a B) dollars to stop each killing.

I dunno, maybe it's just me. That seems kind of like a lot when there are eight million kids in the US without health insurance. It's certainly not something I'd classify as "basic security".
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by TheKwas »

The Enviromental Protection Agency values a statistical life (not to be confused with a particular life facing certain death) at 6.9 million dollars. That means that if a certain enviromental regulation expects to prevent deaths at a cost less than 6.9 million per death prevented, then that regulation will be enforced/enacted. If the cost is greater than 6.9 million per prevented death then the regulation is deemed too expensive and will not be enacted.

Also, the EPA puts the highest value on a statistical life in the American government. Other departments, like transportation, use a lower value. Meaning that if erik's back-of-the-envelope calculation is anywhere near the actual cost of such a program, we're talking about a program that values a statistical life about 150 times more than the highest estimate used in the richest country in the world.

Not only is that an outrageous figure, it's extremely ineffienct. Rather than spending billions on saving a few students, we could spend the same amount and save countless more individuals through different programs. Making the same assumptions concerning constant returns as erik implicitly did, we could save roughly 150 individuals in other areas for every student saved with Solauren's plan.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Uraniun235 »

General Zod wrote:
Knife wrote:lol, basic security is government overspending
I'm not sure I'd consider bomb-sniffing dogs "basic" security. . .
I wouldn't consider dogs - or other means of additional security - particularly effective, either. All you need is someone to pull the fire alarm, and within a couple of minutes you have the entire student body outside gathered in relatively close proximity.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Rogue 9 »

At my old high school the fire evacuation point for half the building was the tennis courts. Which are (naturally) fenced in. And in this case surrounded by forest.

I'm damn glad we never had a shooter.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I just remember thinking that it was a good thing that the alpha nerds at my school never went out to build anything. We had two girls who suspended for tazering jocks that tried to sexually assualt them. Their parents worked for a nuclear lab.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Knife »

I mean, security is threat analysis. You can make bottle necks in the 'system' but there is always ways to circumvent the system if you are going outside of it. Bottom line; you can spend till your heart is content and there are still threats out there. You can't safe guard all of humanity.

Spend all you want and the real world will still leak though. Not a happy thought, nor a reason not to take precautions, rather a simplistic view to say, shit happens.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Darth Wong »

Solauren wrote:No, I'm sorry, you're right.

Better to waste it on things like bailing out pyramid-scams disguised as financial insitutions, and rescuing bloated, out-dated and mis-managed companies, then protecting children.

Compared to the recent financial bailouts, 25 Billion to protect schools is nothing.
It's sad. Two and a half millennia after Sun Tzu explained the folly of trying to create invincible walls of defense everywhere, people still think it would work.

Do you not see how an attacker would obviously know about such a high-visibility defense (leaving aside the practical infeasibilities), and plan accordingly?
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Oskuro »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:In summary: The Columbine attack had no possibility whatsoever of any defense short of a teacher with a gun. <snip> The only defense against this is prompt and vigorous application of deadly force. Sociopathy is indeed lethal; let's defend ourselves against it as if our lives depended on it. They indeed do.
Ok, I know this might not be the right crowd for this, and I will be accused of knee-jerking, but fuck it. Why obsess about defense, when you can put your effort in prevention? Namely the prevention that involves making sure those kids do not get their hands on guns.

Pleae note the following quote:
The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns.
The incident has demonstrated that the proficient use of home-made bombs is not easily attainable by untrained kids and google-fu, and had that been their only weapon, Columbine woulnd't have been more than an anecdote. But these kids had access to profesionally-crafted weapons, and they even got others to adquire them in a rather trivial fashion.
Now, I don't want to go into a full gun control discussion, but in this instance the availability of deadly weapons is to blame for some of the consequences.

Also, going back to Einhander's quote, having teachers with guns won't really do that much to prevent this, since they are not SWAT-level operatives who can shoot with absolute precision and remain calm in dire circumstances, and even then, all it takes is a lucky shot to bring them down (and they wouldn't have the initiative). Furthermore, there's this thing called escalation, especially in an environment full of hyper-hormonal teenagers with invincibility complexes. Not to mention that the kids were suicidal, and tried to bomb the building first, a full Marine battallion dining in the cafeteria would have made no difference to the attackers.

And before someone strawmans me to death, I'm not saying that lack of gun control is to blame exclusively for the massacre, I'm just pointing that prevention does a lot more than setting up increasingly draconic defenses, or outright implying that teachers should be asked to shoot kids down. Or did you mean something else with this?
The only defense against this is prompt and vigorous application of deadly force. Sociopathy is indeed lethal; let's defend ourselves against it as if our lives depended on it. They indeed do.
Yes, because school shootings will surely reduce school shootings.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Flagg »

You mean to tell me that special interest groups will glom on to a tragedy in order to push their own agenda and the media will blindly report it as fact regardless of the evidence? Say it aint so! :lol:
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by salm »

LordOskuro wrote: Ok, I know this might not be the right crowd for this, and I will be accused of knee-jerking, but fuck it. Why obsess about defense, when you can put your effort in prevention? Namely the prevention that involves making sure those kids do not get their hands on guns.
You know, the problem with this is that it´s very hard to implement. Even in countries like Germany where gun laws are extremely strict school shootings happen on a regular basis.
This makes it hard or actually impossible for the government to effectively control guns getting into the hands of lunatics. The only thing they can try is to train people with access to guns in responsibility. But then, there will allways be some bad apples who will sell guns to kids or will leave their gun lying around unlocked.
School shootings aren´t completely avoidable. We can try to reduce them by trying to make people more responsible but that´s not something that you can do in short time. It´s more like social adaption of an entire generation and in nowadays politics, where short term solutions are considered the shiznizz, pretty unlikely to happen.
Not saying it shouldn´t be tried, though.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Coyote »

erik_t wrote:I dunno, maybe it's just me. That seems kind of like a lot when there are eight million kids in the US without health insurance. It's certainly not something I'd classify as "basic security".
That's the route I'm looking at. Bomb-sniffing dogs and other security measures are too late-- they are in place to find the kid who's already snapped and is on his way to school with a weapon.

If health screenings-- particularly mental health screenings-- were available universally, these kids might get found and treated before the situation deteriorates to the bomb-making and weapon-smuggling stage.

Relying on security and interception has already given the initiative to the nutcases.
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Re: [Columbine] Long Story Short: They were Sociopaths!

Post by Darth Wong »

Not to get on an old hobby-horse here, but let's be realistic: even if these two nutjob assholes had pulled off this scheme successfully, it's a once-in-a-lifetime psycho event. You could ratchet up their kill score to a hundred and the total for school shootings would still pale in comparison to the number of people (including kids) killed and/or maimed by aggressive and/or negligent automobile driving every year: an enormous pox on society which takes far more lives than murder every year and which nobody gets worked up about.

The thing about murderers is that we can get on our moral high horse. We're not murderers ourselves after all, and very few of us ever think we could be. But I suspect that a lot of the population engages in dangerous driving: far more than are willing to admit so publicly. That causes a substantial portion of the population to react negatively to any proposed harsh crackdown on such driving, and any ideas directed at the issue fizzle politically for that reason.
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