Somalia Pirates seize US-flagged cargo ship

[Knife]

Why would we have to go that far? They may have been operating in Africa for any number of reasons. That area is a hotbed of Islamic terrorists isn't it?

huh?

I seem to recall that the area around and including Somalia is home to a great number of hardcore (more or less) Islamic factions and that terrorists use the area for training or as a safehaven. Though maybe calling it a hotbed was over the top.

lol, hot bed for islam due to their campaghn against the local christians

[CaptainChewbacca]

We often base SEAL teams out of the UAE or Kuwait, no reason to think they came from Pearl.

[Darth Wong]

I know this is kind of late in the game for a response to the whole hostage rescue pulled off by the Navy, but I've been away from a computer for a while. I just had to share this bit of wisdom.

First thing upon hearing of the captain being rescued someone I know proclaimed "Well, Obama got to kill his first black people. So much for him talking things through."

I ... who ... wha ...

Is this a Republitard? In the mind of a posturing faux-macho Republitard, there are only two options when dealing with enemies: Total War and Total Appeasement. Since Obama seemed to use conciliatory language when discussing strategic options in the 21st century, they concluded that he is not in the Total War camp. Therefore, they conclude that he must be in the Total Appeasement camp, so they assume that his response to any foreign action will always be to kiss and make nice. They don't understand the concept of an approach somewhere between those two polar extremes. Naturally, since he did not send an envoy over to the pirates with boxes of cookies and gifts, they think he's going back on his word.

[Darth Wong]

But why would you target what are obviously harmless fishing vessels? How will the villagers feed their children? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Why must you right-wingers take such glee in mocking the idea of protecting the world's children from harm? Is it really such a comical concept to you, that some people actually have a special place in their hearts for children? Seriously, are you a fucking sociopath or something?

This isn't some trumped-up issue where children are actually in no serious danger: realistically, if we played hardball with the pirates and took whatever action was necessary to deal with them, children would be maimed and killed. Is that hilarious to you too? Situations like this are difficult. I don't find the idea of blowing up kids particularly funny, even if you can concoct an argument to show how it's either necessary or a lesser evil than some alternative (such as fabulously enriched thug warlords).

[Broomstick]

Seems the revenge business is off to a rocky start:

(CNN) -- The Liberty Sun, a U.S.-flagged cargo ship bound for Mombasa, Kenya, was attacked Tuesday by Somali pirates, according to a NATO source with direct knowledge of the matter.
Pirates attacked The Liberty Sun, a U.S.-flagged cargo ship, but were unable to board.

"The pirates fired rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at the vessel, which sustained damage," said a statement from New York-based Liberty Maritime Corporation, which owns the vessel.

The ship was carrying U.S. food aid for African nations, the statement said.

The pirates never made it onto the ship and the vessel is now being escorted by a coalition ship, still bound for Mombasa, officials said.

Katy Urbik of Wheaton, Illinois, said her son, Thomas, was aboard the Liberty Sun at the time of the attack. She shared the e-mails he sent as the ship came under fire.

"We are under attack by pirates, we are being hit by rockets. Also bullets," said one e-mail sent Tuesday afternoon. "We are barricaded in the engine room and so far no one is hurt. [A] rocket penetrated the bulkhead but the hole is small. Small fire, too, but put out.

"Navy is on the way and helos and ships are coming. I'll try to send you another message soon. [G]ot to go now. I love you mom and dad and all my brothers and family."

About 1½ hours later, Thomas Urbik sent another e-mail to his mother, which said, "The navy has showed up in full force and we are now under military escort ... all is well. I love you all and thank you for the prayers."

In an e-mail only hours before the attack, Urbik's son tried to assure his mother that his crew was safe and taking precautions.

"Don't worry too much. I am fine and we are being well monitored by the U.S. Navy, who is demanding we send them a report every six hours on our position and status," Thomas Ubrik's e-mail said. He added, "We in fact are going to be the second American ship to arrive into Mombasa after the Maersk Alabama. It should be interesting to say the least. ... We have had several drills to prepare ourselves to secure ourselves in the engine room. [W]e can do it pretty quick by now."

The company said the ship had dropped off food aid last week at a Sudanese port and the ship was going around the Horn of Africa to reach Kenya when it came under attack. However, the exact location of the attack remained unclear.

The article goes on a bit more, but rest of it is old news.

Well - looks like capturing a US-flagged ship is a bit tougher than anticipated. Of course, having the USN around helps, too. The pirates can't kill US hostages if they can't get those hostages in the first place.

Pity we can't count on them just simply having a stroke from the sheer frustration of it all, thereby saving everyone else a lot of trouble, but here's hoping things turn out OK in the long run.

[CaptainChewbacca]

So is piracy actually increasing lately, or is it just the latest sexy thing for the newsbunnies to pedal and distract us from our imploding economy?

[Broomstick]

Yes, piracy really has been increasing of late, particularly off that particular coast of African. But piracy has always been around, pretty much all over the world. Stephen J. Gould several times related the story of when he and a few other scientists were doing field work in the Carribean and were captured by pirates who had a lot of trouble believing he really was spending all day digging up snails, an incident that was probably 30 years ago now, and just one example I know about in the Western hemisphere. I know of a few others, but they involved no one particularly well known.

And yes, at the moment it's a "sexy" story because it was an American crew that got captured and not a bunch of brown skins from the Philippines.

[KrauserKrauser]

Why must you right-wingers take such glee in mocking the idea of protecting the world's children from harm? Is it really such a comical concept to you, that some people actually have a special place in their hearts for children? Seriously, are you a fucking sociopath or something?

This isn't some trumped-up issue where children are actually in no serious danger: realistically, if we played hardball with the pirates and took whatever action was necessary to deal with them, children would be maimed and killed. Is that hilarious to you too? Situations like this are difficult. I don't find the idea of blowing up kids particularly funny, even if you can concoct an argument to show how it's either necessary or a lesser evil than some alternative (such as fabulously enriched thug warlords).

I guess I have to make a note to myself.

(Note to self) Whenever you make a joke about a serious topic, expect Darth Wong to jump on your shit because he has a serious hard on for bashing conservatives.(/Note)

I know children will get harmed by this either by eliminating their "Navy" which consists of upgraded trawlers and fishing vessels that could be used for piracy or fishing depending on the cargo. I also know that any airstrikes or boots on the ground action will kill civilians as well.

I'll try to remember that when responding to someone's post with a joke that they obviously see the humor in and respond to in a humorous manner, I'll have to expect insults and complete serious analysis from you. I'll make sure to limit my posts to serious responses only in the future so you don't get butthurt from jokes.

[Rogue 9]

The coalition ship that Broomstick's article says is escorting the Liberty Sun is in fact the USS Bainbridge, the same ship that rescued Captain Phillips of the Maersk Alabama. NPR reports that he's still on board; diverting to escort the Liberty Sun has delayed his return to his ship.

[Darth Wong]

Why must you right-wingers take such glee in mocking the idea of protecting the world's children from harm? Is it really such a comical concept to you, that some people actually have a special place in their hearts for children? Seriously, are you a fucking sociopath or something?

This isn't some trumped-up issue where children are actually in no serious danger: realistically, if we played hardball with the pirates and took whatever action was necessary to deal with them, children would be maimed and killed. Is that hilarious to you too? Situations like this are difficult. I don't find the idea of blowing up kids particularly funny, even if you can concoct an argument to show how it's either necessary or a lesser evil than some alternative (such as fabulously enriched thug warlords).

I guess I have to make a note to myself.

(Note to self) Whenever you make a joke about a serious topic, expect Darth Wong to jump on your shit because he has a serious hard on for bashing conservatives.(/Note)

I know children will get harmed by this either by eliminating their "Navy" which consists of upgraded trawlers and fishing vessels that could be used for piracy or fishing depending on the cargo. I also know that any airstrikes or boots on the ground action will kill civilians as well.

I'll try to remember that when responding to someone's post with a joke that they obviously see the humor in and respond to in a humorous manner, I'll have to expect insults and complete serious analysis from you. I'll make sure to limit my posts to serious responses only in the future so you don't get butthurt from jokes.

I know it's a joke, you fucking worthless moron. I even called it "mockery"; are you honestly so goddamned stupid and illiterate that you don't know what "mockery" means? Did you completely fail to see the part where I obviously saw that YOU think it's "funny"?

I see you totally missed the point of what I was saying, fucktard.

[KrauserKrauser]

Oh, I understood it. The GOP has historically mocked the use of "Think of the children" as a reason for implementing policy in the past. I know that.

See, I was using that as a comic device as this is what the Somali's would be saying after we blew up all the fishing boats that they use for fishing/piracy. Because we would have to do that to have any impact on their piracy, if we went the route of destroying the means to commit the piracy as per Duchess.

And it would be true that the children would be harmed by that act, but coming from a liberal (communist now almost?) such as Duchess it worked in another way as the liberals stereotypically use that argument to get shit passed in government.

Though there isn't much point in trying to point this out because you are going to continue to jump up my ass as often as you possibly can.

[Darth Wong]

Oh, I understood it. The GOP has historically mocked the use of "Think of the children" as a reason for implementing policy in the past. I know that.

See, I was using that as a comic device as this is what the Somali's would be saying after we blew up all the fishing boats that they use for fishing/piracy. Because we would have to do that to have any impact on their piracy, if we went the route of destroying the means to commit the piracy as per Duchess.

And it's funny because ...?

Though there isn't much point in trying to point this out because you are going to continue to jump up my ass as often as you possibly can.

Ah yes, continue to play the "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!" card. You conservatives love that one.

[KrauserKrauser]

And it's funny because ...?

I heard somewhere that Irony could be used for humor as well...

[Darth Wong]

And it's funny because ...?

I heard somewhere that Irony could be used for humor as well...

And your "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN" mockery is comically ironic because ...?

[Eldalote]

Don't you understand!? It's funny because it would hurt innocent children, and because they aren't OUR children we can laugh about it... Don't you see?

</sarcasm>

I'm really shocked at how far people would be willing to go (or at least, joke at how far they would be willing to go) to kill pirates!

Yes... They capture ships and yes they hold people for ransom... Is that really enough cause to shoot every single fishing boat in the area?? Before confirming that they are pirates for sure??

And I know that the use of nukes or chems was a joke (at least I really hope so...) But still... It's not even funny, killing tons of innocents only because some rich companies, who are probably insured anyway, had to pay some money?

People, come on! I fully agree that piracy is bad and that we should do something against it, but just shooting all boats is going way too far, lets not even speak of the nukes....

[Sky Captain]

What effect would be of sending a few B 52`s to carpet bomb an uninhabited area near one of those pirate harbors and dump a bunch of leaflets saying that next time this might happen to their town if acts piracy continue to increase.

[Rogue 9]

What effect would be of sending a few B 52`s to carpet bomb an uninhabited area near one of those pirate harbors and dump a bunch of leaflets saying that next time this might happen to their town if acts piracy continue to increase.

They'd think it's impotent posturing. That sort of demonstration never works. Besides, you can't guarantee totally uninhabited, especially in a subsistence-agriculture region of the world.

[Darth Wong]

What effect would be of sending a few B 52`s to carpet bomb an uninhabited area near one of those pirate harbors and dump a bunch of leaflets saying that next time this might happen to their town if acts piracy continue to increase.

Carpet-bombing is a thing of the past, as far as first-world militaries are concerned. Modern air-strikes are expected to hit specific aimed targets.

[Sea Skimmer]

Specific aimed targets that might still be a 3000 x 100 foot box . Precision guided weapons only work if you have a precisely located target. Plenty of time that is just not possible, and carpet bombing was still use extensively in Afghanistan in 2001-02 and Iraq in 2003 because of that. A lot of use of guided weapons also simply amounts to carpet bombing in effect, if you have a row of precision aim points 30 meters apart in a line the enemy sure isn’t going to know the different. It’s much the same story for field and rocket artillery.

The only things that’s dead are the really retarded B-52 tactics used in Nam, when the suspected target area could be as long as three miles and the interval between bombs was sometimes so large that a standing man might not be killed. This was not very good for anything.

[Broomstick]

KrauserKrauser, I think the take-away point you missed was that Mike did not consider your joke funny, not that he did not recognize it as a joke.

[bilateralrope]

As these stories of piracy increase, I've also seen several people claiming that European ships dumping radioactive waste and overfishing the Somalia coastal waters helped stir up piracy by causing them to create a voluntary coastguard. This is just one source for those claims.

Is there any truth to these claim ?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

French Frigate captures 11 pirates aboard a mothership after observing their attack on the Liberty Sun.

French ship captures 11 possible pirates

MOMBASA, Kenya, April 15 (UPI) -- French officials Wednesday said a French warship captured 11 suspected pirates off the coast of Kenya.

The officials told the BBC the warship Nivose on an EU piracy patrol captured the suspects following an unsuccessful attack on the U.S. cargo ship, the Liberty Sun, in waters of the region.

The French Defense Ministry said the suspects were captured nearly 550 miles from the Kenyan port of Mombasa, and that a regional pirate attack on a Liberian-registered ship also was thwarted.

U.N. special envoy for Somalia, Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, told the BBC the pirate attacks were threatening international peace and exploiting native Somalis.

"As everyone knows force is a last resort, but at the same time self-defense is legitimate," he said. "But we should not go there for the time being."

CNN said the French Navy had been monitoring the suspected pirates' activities prior to sending a helicopter to seize the suspects.

[Lonestar]

Four threads down, Marina

[FSTargetDrone]

As these stories of piracy increase, I've also seen several people claiming that European ships dumping radioactive waste and overfishing the Somalia coastal waters helped stir up piracy by causing them to create a voluntary coastguard. This is just one source for those claims.

Is there any truth to these claim ?

That story you linked to:

Johann Hari

Columnist, London Independent

Posted April 13, 2009 | 10:05 AM (EST)

You Are Being Lied to About Pirates

Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy - backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China - is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labeling as "one of the great menace of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell -- and some justice on their side.

Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy" - from 1650 to 1730 - the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage thief that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda-heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often rescued from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? In his book Villains of All nations, the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence to find out. If you became a merchant or navy sailor then - plucked from the docks of London's East End, young and hungry - you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off for a second, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the Cat O' Nine Tails. If you slacked consistently, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages.

Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied against their tyrannical captains - and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls "one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the eighteenth century." They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed "quite clearly - and subversively - that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal navy." This is why they were popular, despite being unproductive thieves.

The words of one pirate from that lost age - a young British man called William Scott - should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But the "pirates" have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason. The independent Somalian news-site WardherNews conducted the best research we have into what ordinary Somalis are thinking - and it found 70 percent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence of the country's territorial waters." During the revolutionary war in America, George Washington and America's founding fathers paid pirates to protect America's territorial waters, because they had no navy or coastguard of their own. Most Americans supported them. Is this so different?

Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our nuclear waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We didn't act on those crimes - but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 percent of the world's oil supply, we begin to shriek about "evil." If we really want to deal with piracy, we need to stop its root cause - our crimes - before we send in the gun-boats to root out Somalia's criminals.

The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, our great imperial fleets sail in today - but who is the robber?

Johann Hari is a writer for the Independent newspaper. To read more of his articles, click here. or here.

POSTSCRIPT: Some commenters seem bemused by the fact that both toxic dumping and the theft of fish are happening in the same place - wouldn't this make the fish contaminated? In fact, Somalia's coastline is vast, stretching to 3300km. Imagine how easy it would be - without any coastguard or army - to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California, and you get the idea. These events are happening in different places - but with the same horrible effect: death for the locals, and stirred-up piracy. There's no contradiction.

I don't know of many "coastguard" organizations that take prisoners and demand ransom for them.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Four threads down, Marina

Eeeep. I just assumed all the pirate stuff was going into this thread to avoid cluttering it, since the Horn of Africa right now seems like it might as well be the Spanish Main in 1720.