The ultimate reaping of what one sows

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Dominus Atheos
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The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Dominus Atheos »

Salon
Right-wing polemicists today are shrieking in self-pitying protest over a new report from the Department of Homeland Security sent to local police forces which warns of growing "right-wing extremist activity." The report (.pdf) identifies attributes of these right-wing extremists, warning that a growing domestic threat of violence and terrorism "may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single-issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration" and "groups that reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority."

Conservatives have responded to this disclosure as though they're on the train to FEMA camps. The Right's leading political philosopher and intellectual historian, Jonah Goldberg, invokes fellow right-wing giant Ronald Reagan and says: "Here we go Again," protesting that "this seems so nakedly ideological." Michelle Malkin, who spent the last eight years cheering on every domestic surveillance and police state program she could find, announces that it's "Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real!" Lead-War-on-Terror-cheerleader Glenn Reynolds warns that DHS -- as a result of this report (but not, apparently, anything that happened over the last eight years) -- now considers the Constitution to be a "subversive manifesto." Super Tough Guy Civilization-Warrior Mark Steyn has already concocted an elaborate, detailed martyr fantasy in which his house is surrounded by Obama-dispatched, bomb-wielding federal agents. Malkin's Hot Air stomps its feet about all "the smears listed in the new DHS warning about 'right-wing extremism.'"

It's certainly true that federal police efforts directed at domestic political movements -- even ones with a history of inspiring violence in both the distant and recent past -- require real vigilance and oversight, and it's also true that the DHS description of these groups seems excessively broad with the potential for mischief. But the political faction screeching about the dangers of the DHS is the same one that spent the last eight years vastly expanding the domestic Surveillance State and federal police powers in every area. DHS -- and the still-creepy phrase "homeland security" -- became George Bush's calling card. The Republicans won the 2002 election by demonizing those who opposed its creation. All of the enabling legislation underlying this Surveillance State -- from the Patriot Act to the Military Commissions Act, from the various FISA "reforms" to massive increases in domestic "counter-Terrorism" programs -- are the spawns of the very right-wing movement that today is petrified that this is all being directed at them.

When you cheer on a Surveillance State, you have no grounds to complain when it turns its eyes on you. If you create a massive and wildly empowered domestic surveillance apparatus, it's going to monitor and investigate domestic political activity. That's its nature. I'd love to know how many of the participants in today's right-wing self-victim orgy uttered a peep of protest about any of this, from 2005:
F.B.I. Watched Activist Groups, New Files Show

WASHINGTON, Dec. 19 - Counterterrorism agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted numerous surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations that involved, at least indirectly, groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief, newly disclosed agency records show.

After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general, loosened restrictions on the F.B.I.'s investigative powers, giving the bureau greater ability to visit and monitor Web sites, mosques and other public entities in developing terrorism leads. The bureau has used that authority to investigate not only groups with suspected ties to foreign terrorists, but also protest groups suspected of having links to violent or disruptive activities.

But the documents, coming after the Bush administration's confirmation that President Bush had authorized some spying without warrants in fighting terrorism, prompted charges from civil rights advocates that the government had improperly blurred the line between terrorism and acts of civil disobedience and lawful protest.

One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a "Vegan Community Project." Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's "semi-communistic ideology." A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

The documents, provided to The New York Times over the past week, came as part of a series of Freedom of Information Act lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union. For more than a year, the A.C.L.U. has been seeking access to information in F.B.I. files on about 150 protest and social groups that it says may have been improperly monitored.

The F.B.I. had previously turned over a small number of documents on antiwar groups, showing the agency's interest in investigating possible anarchist or violent links in connection with antiwar protests and demonstrations in advance of the 2004 political conventions. And earlier this month, the A.C.L.U.'s Colorado chapter released similar documents involving, among other things, people protesting logging practices at a lumber industry gathering in 2002.

The latest batch of documents, parts of which the A.C.L.U. plans to release publicly on Tuesday, totals more than 2,300 pages and centers on references in internal files to a handful of groups, including PETA, the environmental group Greenpeace and the Catholic Workers group, which promotes antipoverty efforts and social causes.

"It's clear that this administration has engaged every possible agency, from the Pentagon to N.S.A. to the F.B.I., to engage in spying on Americans," said Ann Beeson, associate legal director for the A.C.L.U.

"You look at these documents," Ms. Beeson said, "and you think, wow, we have really returned to the days of J. Edgar Hoover, when you see in F.B.I. files that they're talking about a group like the Catholic Workers league as having a communist ideology."
I was in Minneapolis and St. Paul during the 2008 GOP Convention and witnessed first-hand massive federal police raids and "preventive" arrests of peaceful, law-abiding protesters and even the violent arrests of journalists, and I don't recall any complaints from Jonah Goldberg or Michelle Malkin. I don't recall Glenn Reynolds or Mark Steyn complaining that the FBI, for virtually the entire Bush administration, was systematically abusing its new National Security Letters authorities under the Patriot Act to collect extremely invasive information, in secret, about Americans who had done nothing wrong. Russ Feingold's efforts to place limits and abuse-preventing safeguards on these Patriot Act powers in 2006 attracted a grand total of 10 votes in the Senate -- none Republican. Indeed, thanks to the very people who are today petulantly complaining about politically-motivated federal police actions (now that they imagine it's directed at them rather than at people they dislike), the Federal Government today has the power to eavesdrop on telephone calls and read the emails of American citizens without warrants; monitor bank records without court approval; obtain all sorts of invasive personal records, medical and financial, without Subpoenas; and obtain and store a whole host of other personal information about American citizens who have not been accused, let alone convicted, of having done anything wrong. Also thanks to them (and things like the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, the FISA Amendments Act, etc. etc), most of this is carried out without any real oversight or safeguards, left entirely to the judgment and good faith of federal officials to wield these powers carefully and for proper ends. And, better still, federal officials can hide behind sweeping claims of secrecy and National Security to prevent courts from scrutinizing what they did and determine if it was illegal (we call that "the state secrets privilege").

So what's the problem? As the National Review/Bush-following-Right has been telling us for years now, there's nothing to worry about if you've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. The first duty of the Government is to protect us all -- keep us safe and warm from all the scary things out there, like a Good Daddy does -- and if they need to trample on some lofty privacy ideals and so-called civil liberties concerns and supposed Constitutional safeguards, well: that's just how it is. It takes a real paranoid hysteric to think that federal government officials have nothing better to do than target domestic political opponents. And besides, what good is the Constitution if we're all dead at the hands of domestic McVeigh-like Terrorists? After all, the Constitution isn't a suicide pact. Remember all of that? I certainly do.

This is all as laughable as it is predictable. Just a couple months out of power and they have suddenly re-discovered their fear of the Federal Government and their belief in the need to limit its powers. As I wrote in February about the Glenn Beck Movement that is taking over the Limbaugh/National Review Right:
What was most remarkable about this allegedly "anti-government" movement was that -- with some isolated and principled exceptions -- it completely vanished upon the election of Republican George Bush, and it stayed invisible even as Bush presided over the most extreme and invasive expansion of federal government power in memory. Even as Bush seized and used all of the powers which that movement claimed in the 1990s to find so tyrannical and unconstitutional -- limitless, unchecked surveillance activities, detention powers with no oversight, expanding federal police powers, secret prison camps, even massively exploding and debt-financed domestic spending -- they meekly submitted to all of it, even enthusiastically cheered it all on. . . .

But now, only four weeks into the presidency of Barack Obama, they are back -- angrier and more chest-beating than ever. Actually, the mere threat of an Obama presidency was enough to revitalize them from their eight-year slumber, awaken them from their camouflaged, well-armed suburban caves.
I can't wait until these limited-government, super-principled "conservatives" start putting these bumper stickers back on their cars:


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For now, though, one can't help but note that these "conservatives" seem so very angry about a federal government program designed to do nothing other than protect the glorious Homeland from Terrorists. And we know that this is the purpose of the DHS program because that's what the Government said its purpose is. So what else is there to know? That's the lesson we all learned over the last eight years: Bush said that all of his secret surveillance programs were only directed at Al Qaeda, so how can anyone say otherwise?


Apparently, though, the Right has forgotten these important lessons about Trusting Our Political Leaders and instead is now embracing a newfound and quite disturbing devotion to Terrorist Rights. To borrow from Sarah Palin, they are apparently more worried about whether the Timothy McVeighs and Eric Rudolphs of the world can plan their next violent attack without interference from the DHS than they are in having the Government keep us all Safe. What kind of twisted, warped, subversive political movement prioritizes Terrorist Rights over the Safety of Americans like this?

UPDATE: In comments, e_five perfectly summarizes the Bush-following Right (as distinct from the small faction of Ron-Paul/Bruce-Fein/Bob-Barr conservatives who stayed true to their limited-government principles during the Bush era): "When they have a club in their hands, no one is more sadistic. When the club is removed, no one is more whiney." Precisely.

And Brendan Calling has some very related thoughts on this right-wing scandal du jour that are worth reading.

UPDATE II: The Right's self-victimizing outbursts are always as fact-free as they are self-pitying. Just marvel at this (h/t sysprog):
Jonah Goldberg, today:
Yes, DHS has done reports on anti-war, environmental, and other groups. But my understanding is that they didn't - and wouldn't - use the all-purpose term "left-wing" to describe those threats. . . . If the Bush administration had issued a sweeping indictment of "left-wing" groups in America, arguing that they needed to be monitored, something tells me we'd be hearing a lot about it.
From the very same Washington Times article he linked to that started the whole scandal:
In January, the same DHS office released a report titled "Leftwing extremists likely to increase use of cyber attacks over the coming decade."
That was in the precise article that he linked to. Also, the Bush Department of Energy published an April, 2001 document entitled "Left-Wing Extremism: The Current Threat." The woe-is-us whining (this would never happen to the Left -- only us!) is just revolting.


Meanwhile, Drudge -- who never bothered objecting in the slightest to the extreme surveillance abuses under Bush -- adds fuel to the fire with big screaming headlines featuring scary pictures of DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, playing the role of Janet Reno, with this warning: "She is watching you." But Drudge doesn't mention that preparation of the report began more than a year ago -- when Bush was still in office -- and that similar reports have been issued about, and actual surveillance programs directed to, so-called "Leftwing extremists." As I said, they're as fact-free as they are unprincipled, hypocritical and self-pitying.
:lol:

Listening to them whine about being oppressed while the same thing happened to us is hilarious. They even deserve it, since they actually are talking about starting armed rebellions and seceding. I wish Obama had the balls to turn every executive privilege and power against the very people who cheered it on when it was Bush doing it, if he can't just abandon them.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

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Dominus Atheos wrote:Conservatives have responded to this disclosure as though they're on the train to FEMA camps. The Right's leading political philosopher and intellectual historian, Jonah Goldberg, invokes fellow right-wing giant Ronald Reagan and says: "Here we go Again," protesting that "this seems so nakedly ideological." Michelle Malkin, who spent the last eight years cheering on every domestic surveillance and police state program she could find, announces that it's "Confirmed: The Obama DHS hit job on conservatives is real!" Lead-War-on-Terror-cheerleader Glenn Reynolds warns that DHS -- as a result of this report (but not, apparently, anything that happened over the last eight years) -- now considers the Constitution to be a "subversive manifesto." Super Tough Guy Civilization-Warrior Mark Steyn has already concocted an elaborate, detailed martyr fantasy in which his house is surrounded by Obama-dispatched, bomb-wielding federal agents. Malkin's Hot Air stomps its feet about all "the smears listed in the new DHS warning about 'right-wing extremism.'"
Man, if only all of those fears actually came true, and these sociopaths were hauled off to concentration camps like Gitmo. Now that would be poetic justice.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Posner »

It's certainly overly broad, but we are used to that coming from the DHS. And it is fun seeing conservatives squirm a little. But it's just words on a paper, you still need the political will and support from agencies to create these NRA FEMA camps. I just don't see that happening to the conservatives, and it's certainly less likely to happen to pro lifers than to peace activists.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Count Chocula »

The DHS report and the MIAC report from a few weeks ago are reminiscent of the Clinton-era surveillance of the same type of "Conservative radical" with a few differences in terminology. This is nothing new, even though it pisses me off that a Federal department would have the gall to declare that millions of Americans fit the "terrorist" profile, with, um, no actual data to support their conclusions.

From what I've glanced at Limbaugh, Hedgecock, Beck et al are just absolutely raving mad at the Obama administration for allowing these outrageous inflammatory reports to be published. They seem to not understand that the funding for these studies would have been disbursed when Bush was President. Oops.

If you were to put on your tinfoil hat and think a little more about the studies, they would indicate that some people in the Federal government (and the Fed-funding-assisted MIAC) think millions of Americans are a threat to the government. In other words, this ain't a Democrat vs. Republican thing, it's an example of institutional paranoia.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Phantasee »

How about some cynicism? Bush funded the reports, knowing they'd come out when Obama was President. (I'm assuming he also didn't believe McCain had much of a chance, or that McCain would cancel such reports quite quickly).
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Coyote »

Phantasee wrote:How about some cynicism? Bush funded the reports, knowing they'd come out when Obama was President. (I'm assuming he also didn't believe McCain had much of a chance, or that McCain would cancel such reports quite quickly).
I could see that kind of crap coming from Cheney, using Bush as a signature patsy. I think Bush mostly rode out his second term counting the days until he could draw that pension and chill. He didn't have the foresight or care to worry about an "op".

But even the Right has a reason to worry about home terrorism. A lot of anti-abortion terrorists are saying the GOP isn't "doing enough", for example. True, they're more likely to hit Lefty targets than Righty...
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Count Chocula »

Another point is that these are at best position papers. If they turn into actual legislation, regulations or procedures I'll get concerned. Until then - meh.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Covenant »

What, like banning Ron Paul and conspiracy theories? The fact so many people even think you could legislate something based on this is sign of an overly eager paranoid fantasy, hoping for insane government action so that another civil war could be fought. This is just the kind of stuff that helps law enforcement track groups, the way they track all sorts of groups. Being passively monitored by the police is pretty normal, if you make it a habit of congregating in large groups, producing literature exposuing an agenda, and hoarding weapons.
Count Chocula wrote:The DHS report and the MIAC report from a few weeks ago are reminiscent of the Clinton-era surveillance of the same type of "Conservative radical" with a few differences in terminology. This is nothing new, even though it pisses me off that a Federal department would have the gall to declare that millions of Americans fit the "terrorist" profile, with, um, no actual data to support their conclusions.
These people need to suck it up, and learn what the context is. Lots of people fit profiles for things that they aren't, profiles aren't--the way some people in the past have used them--absolute catagories. Conspiracy theories, Libertarian Agendas, and wacky literature are indeed things that fit into the profile of someone who could be a dangerous right-wing domestic threat, just like how Conspiracy Theories, Animal Rights Agendas, and wacky literature are indeed things that fit into the profile of left-wing domestic threats. Remember when people were yammering about eco-terrorists? It didn't mean that everyone who was against animal testing was going to go burn down a medical research facility.

What the super-conservatives are reacting to is a pretty normal thing with regards to profiles, and their squealing is revealing the fact that they are deserving of some watching. As soon as a report comes out that suggests that right-wing radicals and conspiracy theorists could be dangerous when put into the right situation, they start talking about a coming civil war and revolution? I'm shocked! Shocked I say! Shocked to see that a bunch of supposed dangerous crazies would respond with vague threats of violent uprising when people suggest that it is possible some people might use violence and seek an uprising. Shocked when I hear people that are identified as dangerous because of their stockpile of guns would threaten violence if anyone tries to take their stockpile of guns, and fearing that people will attempt to, stockpile more guns and the most dangerous ones they can get, also fearing that soon they won't be able to get them--and also fearing at the same time that the badguys will get them too.

I think it is probably fair to say that the kind of dangerous right-wing thinking is so widespread and pervasive that it is hard to distinguish between a militiaman, a guy who likes to hang out with buddies, and a dangerous domestic terrorist. This doesn't mean the document is at all wrong, just that the crazy has been left to fester. If these people are aggrivated that their own lives fit them into the catagory of other people who have done violent things, they should ask why they do those things, not why we're paying attention to it.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

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In ancillary news, and relevant to the topic, it appears that The FBI spied on TEA Party Americans:
Northeast Intelligence Network wrote: Obama Administration, DHS and FBI Assess and Declare American Patriots to be Radicalized Extremists and Terrorists »
FBI spied on TEA Party Americans
Exclusive to the Northeast Intelligence Network & Canada Free Press

Douglas J. Hagmann, Director & Judi McLeod, Founding Editor, Canada Free Press

19 April 2009: Even as average Americans were planning to get out in towns and cities to demonstrate against Big Government and Big Taxes, Federal Bureau of Intelligence Investigation (FBI) surveillance was being unleashed upon them. In fact, unsuspecting Tax Day TEA Party participants were being closely watched during the demonstration planning stages in a covert operation that began on or about March 23, 2009.

If you one of the estimated 750,000 Americans who attended one of about 600 TEA parties last week, you might have seen media cameras covering the event. Media cameras, however, were not the only cameras taking video at these events, something that has at least one current FBI agent concerned over the future of America. According to this agent - the same agent who provided the Northeast Intelligence Network (NEIN) exclusively the unreleased photographs of the 11 missing Egyptian students who were the subject of a FBI BOLO in August 2006–placed his concerns for true patriots of the U.S. over his own career when he confided that covert surveillance was “planned and performed” at each of the TEA parties that took place last Tuesday.

“Listen to what I am saying,” stated the source during an interview with Doug Hagmann, founder (NEIN). “The Department of Homeland Security Intelligence Assessment that is receiving so much attention is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, and the true patriotic citizens of this country are on the Titanic. This is what bothers me. But is goes far beyond that assessment. There have been very significant changes made over the last few years that redirect the focus and assets of the intelligence community internally. These changes have greatly accelerated under this administration, and the threats have been redefined to include those who used to be patriots. It’s not only chilling but absolutely insulting to God-fearing Americans.”

According to this unimpeachable source, a single-page confidential directive issued by the FBI headquarters in Washington, DC (FBIHQ) was sent to each of the 56 field offices located across the United States on or about March 23, 2009, instructing the Special Agents in Charge (SACs) of those offices to verify the date, time and location of each TEA Party within their region and supply that information to FBI headquarters in Washington. The source stated this correspondence termed the TEA parties “political demonstrations,” and added that the dissemination of the directive was very tightly controlled. “Not all agents were privy to this correspondence,” stated the source, who compared the dissemination to an older “Do Not File” classification.
In addition to obtaining or confirming the location and time of each “demonstration,” each field office was instructed to obtain or confirm the identity of the individual(s) involved in the actual planning and coordination of the event in each specific region, and include the local or regional Internet web site address, if any. The information collected by region was then reportedly sent to FBI Headquarters.

The source alleges that a second directive was issued on or about April 6, 2009 that reportedly instructed each SAC to coordinate and conduct, either at the field office level and/or with the appropriate resident agency, covert video surveillance and data collection of the participants of the TEA parties. Surveillance was to be performed from “discreet fixed or mobile positions” and was to be performed “independently and outside of the purview of local law enforcement.”

Although the level of detail collected from each operation is unclear, the information was reportedly submitted to Washington, where, “at the level of the National Security Branch (NSB), this information was to “include the office of the Directorate of Intelligence (DI), and integrated with a restricted access database, one that reportedly is accessible to only two agencies” [of the 14 agencies that comprise the U.S. intelligence community, according to the source.

“The implications to the citizens of the U.S. are ominous. It seems that there is a hostile political agenda coming from Washington that characterizes the supporters of our constitutional freedoms as threats to our domestic security, which is totally absurd. The redirection, the refocusing of domestic threats from al Qaeda cells to ‘flag waving right-wingers’ is something that has gone from a murmur a few years ago to a roar today.”

Training government-issued cameras on ordinary citizens, many of whom brought their children to an estimated 600 Tax Day TEA Parties is a page torn out of George Orwell’s 1984 and makes the term “God Bless America” more meaningful than ever.

The Northeast Intelligence Network and Canada Free Press expect the government’s denial of the surveillance of the TEA Parties to go viral as soon as this story is posted.
Now I don't know how credible or reliable this source is, but oddly on Friday I was listening to The Schnitt Show here in Tampa and in the last half hour, IIRC, he had a caller who arrived at the Tampa afternoon protest before it started. He told the host (Schnitt) that he and others were photographed numerous times by four men with cameras, who had arrived in a van. The kicker: the van had DHS decals!

Either someone in DC is taking this memo seriously and really think that millions of Americans are a threat to the government, or this is all a big fear-mongering campaign.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

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So wait, a group whose job is to watch over large groups of people who contain members of loony fringe political movements was watching over large groups of people who contained members of loony fringe political movements. Shock! Awe! A government agency doing its job? We can't have that. Never mind that many of these groups had exceedingly seditious signs and some engaged in activities that could be construed as outright treasonous. I hear seceding from the union is all the rage again.

Seriously Choc, fuck off you putz. This kind of moronic scaremongering is really boring. Most of the Tea Parties deserved to be watched because they are moronic idiots who advocate positions that are ludicrously unpatriotic and show massive disconnects from reality. You wouldn't have any problem with green peace being monitored by DHS so why the big buzz about a bunch of fucking retards? Because they are retards on the same side of the fence as you?
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I still say Fred Phelps dying and discovering Anubis asking for a heart and a feather would be much better.
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

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Sorry Choc, but the NIN is a bunch of reactionary right-wingers with about as much objective reliability as PETA.

Plus, look at your bolded statement. A few years ago? How many few? We've had an intensely right-wing administration for quite some time now, and you cannot lead me to believe Bush was redirecting forces from al Qaeda monitoring to spying on a bunch of 2nd Amendment advocates.

However, what's so strange about the idea of being monitored a bit? If you lowball it, there could have been as many as 300,000+ people total across the country in various little protests and such, but the numbers could have been higher, and there was a lot of vitrol and FOX news pumping-up of the events beforehand. Is that not the sort of event that you might get some interesting attendees at? Does this FBI person know if they were monitoring the crowd of conservatives, or monitoring to see if there were right radicals coming to join them, or left radicals coming to counterattack? No, of course not, and even if you assume this crazy bit of paranoia is correct (Secret Monitoring of Patriots!!!) then you need look no further than the same people who are screaming about it to see why a group that was running under the Bush administration would also have raised concerns over the danger of far-right radicals and crime.

And cycling the paranoia just feeds it.

Here's a clip from the same site that should tip you off, if you aren't already drunk on their kool-aid, that these people are absolutely insane. At the least they're racist religious bigots with delusions of ethnic superiority and a dangerous world agenda to homogenize the planet, and at the worst they really are worth being called terrorists, just like the Klan was.
Now we all come to learn that within three short months our newly elected world socialist administration has made good on its electioneering slogan of “change.” This change initially manifest itself in the declaration by President Barack Hussein Obama that the God-fearing Constitutional Republic of our Founding Fathers no longer exists; that we have abandoned at our new President’s whim our 233-year old Judeo-Christian ethic.

On top of all this, just 12 days ago President Barack Hussein Obama allowed his Department of Homeland Security (DHS) toadies and lackeys, in coordination with similarly-minded folks at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), to redefine the majority of We the People as terrorists in their newest Intelligence and Analysis Assessment. What is most telling is that this document was classified as FOUO, For Official Use Only. We the Identified Terrorists were never to learn of our new federally mandated status as terrorists. In effect, the new government of these still United States virtually and technically issued a declaration of war on at least half of the population of this country, partially due because we know that our president is half-black. Yes, our new government has parlayed the “race card” and the “religious bigotry card” against us within its first 100 days of office. We the Identified Radical Extremists and Terrorists are now legally considered to be direct threats to this government and are to be closely monitored and ultimately targeted. That makes us subject to whatever counter-insurgency domestic contingency operations the world socialist regime of Barack Hussein Obama might decide to execute against a minimum of 50-some odd million of us.
Do I know if they're expousing or promoting hatred? No, but they're certainly off the reservation over there, so what they say is not reliable or objective.
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Count Chocula
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Count Chocula »

Covenant wrote:Sorry Choc, but the NIN is a bunch of reactionary right-wingers with about as much objective reliability as PETA.
Gotcha. As I said, I don't know anything about NIN, although from the tenor of the piece ("unimpeachable source," "all Americans should be concerned," etc. etc.) I figured they were leaning pretty far right. I'll class them with WorldNet for credibility and bias in the future. Hannity and the Free Republic ran the story as well, but surprise surprise! they are going off the NIN story. Looks like the only secondary, indirect confirmation of it is the talk show call-in I heard on Friday.
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Edi
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Re: The ultimate reaping of what one sows

Post by Edi »

Chocula, that [your article] is all bullshit, as pointed out. Law enforcement is supposed to monitor big protests, whether by right wing or left wing organizations or movements. We only hear this screeching from the right now that there is a Democrat as POTUS, but when Bush was using the same law enforcement agencies to cordon political opponents to pre-defined "free speech zones" to keep protesters out of sight and all kinds of other shenanigans that have been documented and verified independently, all we heard from the right was "fucking lefty terrorists deserved it" and "who cares".

They're just whining.
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