"Highly engineered explosive" found in WTC rubble...

[Sky Captain]

It never get`s boring. Now that guy I have an argument with is claiming not only there were explosives in the WTC, but there were explosives in every floor below impact zone. Apparently the dust clouds ejected out of the lower windows by collapsing upper part of the towers are "evidence" there were a bombs in every floor put on nearly every column.

By the way does anyone know how much C4 approximately would be needed to cut or at least seriously weaken steel column the size used in the Twin towers?

[CaptainChewbacca]

The 'explosions' coming out of the windows is the shock front created by displacing air when the floors above smashed down onto lower floors. If it were explosions, you'd see the blast and THEN the movement, not the other way around.

[PeZook]

Of course, any "analysis" of the collapse based on Youtube videos is worthless anyway. A building falling down is an extremely complex system, you can't just determine the causes by watching a poor quality video frame by frame.

Especially not if you're just a random idiot with no engineering expertise whatsoever, except one based on movies and video games

[Darth Wong]

It never get`s boring. Now that guy I have an argument with is claiming not only there were explosives in the WTC, but there were explosives in every floor below impact zone. Apparently the dust clouds ejected out of the lower windows by collapsing upper part of the towers are "evidence" there were a bombs in every floor put on nearly every column.

You might want to try asking him if he can think of any other conceivable reason why dust might shoot out the windows in that scenario, and ask if he's willing to concede that he's too ignorant to have an informed opinion on this subject if you can point out a reason he could not figure out himself.

By the way does anyone know how much C4 approximately would be needed to cut or at least seriously weaken steel column the size used in the Twin towers?

Why not ask him? He clearly fancies himself a demolition expert, since he has used his personal expertise to determine that all of the expert opinions are bogus

[Darth Wong]

The 'explosions' coming out of the windows is the shock front created by displacing air when the floors above smashed down onto lower floors. If it were explosions, you'd see the blast and THEN the movement, not the other way around.

It's not a shock front. It's not supersonic. It's just a pressure wave. The word "shock" gets overused when talking about pressure.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The 'explosions' coming out of the windows is the shock front created by displacing air when the floors above smashed down onto lower floors. If it were explosions, you'd see the blast and THEN the movement, not the other way around.

It's not a shock front. It's not supersonic. It's just a pressure wave. The word "shock" gets overused when talking about pressure.

You're quite right, I confused the terms. Having an engineer brother, I'm starting to learn that terms like 'super' and 'shock' mean very specific things in technical terms.

[Darth Onasi]

I once talked to a tin foil hat who, when cornered with no explanation for his idiotic theories, seriously tried to do the "or have they gotten to YOU too?" routine.
Granted, this was on gamefaqs. Not exaclty the height of intelligence there to begin with.

[Mr Bean]

I once talked to a tin foil hat who, when cornered with no explanation for his idiotic theories, seriously tried to do the "or have they gotten to YOU too?" routine.
Granted, this was on gamefaqs. Not exaclty the height of intelligence there to begin with.

To have a serious discussion on the internet is next to impossible unless you have the right area to have that discussion in. Much like in real life one can not have a serious discussion of women's right's in the middle of polygamist Mormon cult-leader's compound. One might have one with said members outside the compound. Nor is one likely to have a sane discussion on the issues of nuclear power usage in the middle of a Greenpeace rally. One might have such a conversation outside of the rally with a Greenpeace member, and maybe not. Setting is nearly as important as who your having the discussion with. Gamefaqs is a active promoter of internet stupidity just as virtually all unregulated forums are.

It's hard enough to have a sane discussion with someone and nearly impossible until they are removed to an area where-in they are not receiving constant reinforcement of their ideals. Some people simply can not be convinced because they have a stake in the matter(See Pope's and condom's).

[Qwerty 42]

I once talked to a tin foil hat who, when cornered with no explanation for his idiotic theories, seriously tried to do the "or have they gotten to YOU too?" routine.
Granted, this was on gamefaqs. Not exaclty the height of intelligence there to begin with.

Haha, you stop by P/C too? It used to be a good place to pick up good horror shorts, then it devolved into the irrelevant "WHAT IF THE MOON IS A GOVERNMENT SATELLITE?" nonsense and first-year philosophy questions.

[Isolder74]

Conspiracy theorists are funny. I tried to set up a surprise party for my brother and even with no one talking or letting the plot out my brother still figured it out! I had a conspiracy of 10 and I couldn't keep it under wraps how can they even imagine how thousands can be able to pull it off with out somebody letting something slip?

[Jade Falcon]

Why not ask him? He clearly fancies himself a demolition expert, since he has used his personal expertise to determine that all of the expert opinions are bogus

You probably saw what happened whe the Loose Change idiots were confronted by evidence from a demolitions engineer who had been in that sort of job for yeas "I don't give aa fuck what evidence you have I know the truth". Great rebuttal from that guy.

The thing is, if the 9/11 conspiracy is as insiduous and far reaching as they claim, look how many groups would have to be involved.

[Darth Onasi]

I once talked to a tin foil hat who, when cornered with no explanation for his idiotic theories, seriously tried to do the "or have they gotten to YOU too?" routine.
Granted, this was on gamefaqs. Not exaclty the height of intelligence there to begin with.

Haha, you stop by P/C too? It used to be a good place to pick up good horror shorts, then it devolved into the irrelevant "WHAT IF THE MOON IS A GOVERNMENT SATELLITE?" nonsense and first-year philosophy questions.

Yeah, deespite gamefaqs' rep that board used to be fun to go to. I used to enjoy the discussions on parallel universes there.
There were always tin-foil hatters about but at some point it just became a haven of crackpots and lunatics. Moon landings? Fake. Titanic sinking? Insurance fraud. Death of Gus Grissom and crew in the Apollo I fire? Murder/coverup. Columbine shootings? CIA killbot brainwashing. And of course, the 9/11 conspiracy.
I swear all some people do is think up daft scenarios for absolutely everything.

Conspiracy theorists are funny. I tried to set up a surprise party for my brother and even with no one talking or letting the plot out my brother still figured it out! I had a conspiracy of 10 and I couldn't keep it under wraps how can they even imagine how thousands can be able to pull it off with out somebody letting something slip?

Not only thousands of people, but thousands of people involved in a conspiracy to murder their own countrymen. And not a single one of them would ever crack under that kind of guilt?
I have to wonder how sociopathic the tin-foil hats themselves are if they truly think so many would be capable of something so callous.

[Superboy]

I have to wonder how sociopathic the tin-foil hats themselves are if they truly think so many would be capable of something so callous.

I think part of the psychology behind these conspiracy nuts is a desire to make themselves feel special by convincing themselves that everyone else is a monster. Everyone wants to feel special, and that's easy to do if everyone but you is either a horrible person or too stupid to figure it out. You don't need to actually accomplish anything in life if you can convince yourself that you're great anyway compared to all those evil or ignorant people out there.

I think that's also part of the reason that they cling to incredibly complex explanations instead of the more simple and likely ones (as has been pointed out, if the government wanted 9/11 to happen, they could have just hired some Islamists to do it rather than planting explosives or shooting missiles or any of the other ridiculous theories out there). The more complex and insidious the plot is, the smarter they feel for figuring it out. They can't get that great feeling of noticing some tiny insignificant detail in a picture or video and figuring out how it fits into their theory if they don't think all those pictures and videos can contain the secrets.

[The Big I]

Here you go here's a new theory on why no-one has come forward with the "truth".

Several FBI agents confided in David Schippers, the Special Prosecutor in the impeachment trial of Bill Clinton, and told him about the where and when of the coming attacks; that they've been blocked from investigations into suspects; and even the revelation of terrorist training camps in the US. Schippers tried several times, unsuccessfully, to relay this information to then Attorney General, John Ashcroft, who had never gotten back to him on any of his requests. President Bush had signed Executive Order W199-I, which basically told the FBI to back off and stated that any agents who interfere with the missions that these suspects were on would be arrested. After being threatened with this, FBI agent Robert Wright, along with Larry Klayman, President of Judicial Watch, got up on national TV and said, "We can't tell you what we know. Here's a letter threatening to arrest us," then added, "all we can [tell you] is the Bushs vacation with the Bin Ladens." The "Flight of Fancy", which provided dozens of Bin Laden family members with FBI-assisted flights out of the country, without interrogation, while private flights were still grounded, virtually solidifies this. Dr. Graham died on the 17th of September, 2006, in Houston, Texas. His son believes he was poisoned. So does the local ABC News affiliate in Shreveport. Dr. Graham was on the verge of testifying against Jamal Khan in an INS deportation courtroom. Today, the Shreveport FBI claims that Graham did not contact them before 9/11, but Graham had documents and eyewitnesses who recorded his November 1, 2000 meeting with FBI Special Agent Steve Hayes.

I'm not sure where the quote was taken from by I could hazard a guess and say prison plant

[RedImperator]

I have to wonder how sociopathic the tin-foil hats themselves are if they truly think so many would be capable of something so callous.

I think part of the psychology behind these conspiracy nuts is a desire to make themselves feel special by convincing themselves that everyone else is a monster. Everyone wants to feel special, and that's easy to do if everyone but you is either a horrible person or too stupid to figure it out. You don't need to actually accomplish anything in life if you can convince yourself that you're great anyway compared to all those evil or ignorant people out there.

I think that's also part of the reason that they cling to incredibly complex explanations instead of the more simple and likely ones (as has been pointed out, if the government wanted 9/11 to happen, they could have just hired some Islamists to do it rather than planting explosives or shooting missiles or any of the other ridiculous theories out there). The more complex and insidious the plot is, the smarter they feel for figuring it out. They can't get that great feeling of noticing some tiny insignificant detail in a picture or video and figuring out how it fits into their theory if they don't think all those pictures and videos can contain the secrets.

Does this sort of smug amateur psychoanalysis ever add anything to a thread? Do you have any evidence to back this up, or are you just talking out of your asshole?

[cosmicalstorm]

I used to believe in some conspircay theories a number of years ago, I remember that when I overheard people talk about the subjects which I had discovered the "truth" about I would get this feeling of butterflies in my stomach, because I knew the truth, it was actually a very rewarding experience to the point where I still miss it sometimes.