((OOC: Well, I wasn't expecting it all at once, but we'll roll with this.))
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:"Well, let's cut to the chase shall we? Both of us know that there is no agenda for the coming conference, and unless some of us decide on one, this is going to be one heck of a talk shop, with tonnes of accusations thrown left and right. It will probably make the atmosphere even more poisonous than it is already now.
"First thing first, the big issue is Frequesue. The CATO Frequesue members are dead against Tian Xia meddling in their vicinity, supporting of all things a dictator of some rat hole, saying it is some mandate of heaven that no one should meddle in the affairs of the country. The Duchy of Baerne did not fire even a single shot on the Costa government forces, until it was fired upon. Then along comes a Tian Xian battlegroup. If you ask me, such 'incidents' do not promote good will, nor does it even so much as suggest any neutrality in the issue, and instead suggest shades of gunboat diplomacy. Of course, Baerne should have calibrated their initial response, but their actions are neither new, and under the now defunct FTO, those were the norm. Frequesue has and shall remain a wild place lacking in civilization for many years and it takes blood to keep the local thugs in line."
"I suppose one thing we all have to understand here is how Tian Xia views itself regarding Frequesue. Namely, that they consider themselves as much a part of the continent as San Dorado, Baerne, and the others. You could debate that one to death if you chose, but simply dismissing it will get you nowhere, not with them. If you look at it from that perspective, some of their actions make sense. This is what I have gathered from my conversations with the Huang Di on the matter.
"Now, this is my speculation only. But I'd imagine some of that Costas situation is a mix of principle, and no doubt some annoyance. The Tian Xia mission into the CFR is what was blamed for sending the NFT and Baerne into CATO, is it not? The FTO having failed at keeping 'outside influence' and all that. And then later, Baerne intervenes in the Costas. CATO-backed Baerne. To the Tian Xians, I can imagine this being a slap in the face. They are told their intervention was bad, foreign influence, and so on. But after Baerne joins an outside alliance, their intervention is good, and why should anyone be mad? Now, this is all only my personal theory, but it makes a certain amount of sense if you see it from the POV that Tian Xia is a part of the continent.
"To be blunt, if you're going to tell the Huang Di that they are not allowed to intervene in a situation on a continent they consider themselves a part of, because they are 'foreign', but that CATO members can do so at will, even though CATO is an outside alliance, I think you will get a very cold reception. At best."
"Second, while we admit we admitted new members rather quickly, and we are open to possible transparency, can the MESS said to be transparent as well? We have questions as to what would happen to Sirnoth after the junta was removed? And was the use of nuclear weapons even so much as necessary? Why is Tian Xia supporting a dictator of some rat hole there? What do they gain from this? On one hand some accuse us of expansionism, and then you have this sort of behaviour?"
((OOC: I have no idea why you included that Tian Xia bit, since it makes no sense in context with Sirnoth, so I'll just ignore that.))
"Have you ever asked these questions of the Old Dominion yourselves? Transparency is well and good, but it doesn't mean we should send detailed memos outlining our every decision. A little warning here and there is a good first step. But those details will have to be worked out, I am sure.
"Regarding the Old Dominion's use of nuclear weapons, I can say this to you becase we are alone. We think of them as big bad weapons, due to our past experiences. This world has not had such similar experience, and as we have seen with Tonkin, and even with Indhopal, there is more willingness to use them here. As to why the Old Dominion employed them, I imagine it had to do with the chemical attacks used by the junta to expedite their genocide. He did not consider himself to have the assets in place to defeat the Sirnothi Navy, allowing him to make landings of ground troops, quickly enough using conventional means. He really is racing against the clock in trying to stop the junta from killing off the Dominionite and Shepistani populations. It was not an easy choice for him, but it was the lesser of two evils at the time.
"And, as I recall, King Paul has made a trip down there, has he not? I'm sure the situation in Sirnoth would be one of their topics of conversation. Perhaps we will learn more when next we see him? Or the question could be asked at the conference, whether officially or unofficially."
"King Paul is suggesting a kind of council for all, but let's be blunt and specific. Talk shops are only as useful as the words are made into actions or lies perpetrated to hide some unpleasant facts. Binding treaties are only as useful as who signs it, and who doesn't. For such a council to even work, a kind of detente must be achieved."
"I would agree there. I know Arik has been speaking of a United Nations, and amongst us we know why he chose the words he did. But we also know that organization, on Earth, was not exactly the most effective."
"This is what we propose," concluded Heraclius as he handed Rufus a sheet of paper:
1. Regular meetings between foreign ministers to discuss various issues, and to come to a compromise on various outstanding issues within a reasonable time period. A red line between all leaders in the form of a video conference, should matters of urgency arise, should be set up.
2. Notifications that a certain nation seeking to join either alliance, be they as an observer or a full member will be delivered promptly at least 3 months before actual admittance. The decision on admission will be sent to both sides when they are made and these notifications must be at least one month before actual admittance.
4. That Tian Xia and the Frequesue nations must come into some kind of agreement in which all are treated as equals and that all respect each others' personal space, within reason. Details of which is something all of them will have to come to some agreement. It is also preferable that non-aligned nations will be part of this agreement. The issue is not a question of neutrality, but rather that no one goes barging in and then a war of words erupt.
5. A joint policing force in Costa, and an eventual election which is fair and free from any corrupting forces.
6. Finally, that Sirnorth be restored with dignity and honor with either fair and free elections or restoration of the original government. Which ever the people choose to approve preferably by referendum. We advocate a cease fire and that the junta step down at once to make way for a more legitimate government. Whether Sirnorth chooses to align itself to Old Dominion is to be left a matter between Old Dominion and Sirnorth. It's not like Lord Fairfax is going to listen to us anyway.
"You are free to make your own demands on what should be done, and what should not be done. And then the haggling can start. Note that some other members of CATO might have their own demands, and this is only a baseline template."
Rufus simply nodded his head. "And I'm sure other members of the MESS will do the same. I will look this over and pass it along to my allies and, with your permission, President Garrett. As host of the conference, this will at least give him a baseline of thought, assuming he doesn't have his own ideas already. Which, knowing him, he just might." He handed the sheet of paper to a staffer summoned by a buzzer, who quickly departed and secured the door once again, allowing the conversation to continue.
Results
Discussion begins between Heraclius, Shady, and Rufus. Rufus gives copy of the Byzantine/UCSR (I'm assuming you two agreed on this?) to various MESS members and, in theory, Cascadia.
PS: Fingolfin, at some point you and I need words alone.
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