Satanic Ritual Abuse

[kinnison]

Yes, Rye, the whole point is that FGM is carried out amidst a fog of secrecy. A second point is that there are very few attempts to penetrate the fog. Of course, I can't prove that the fog is generated by the ethnicity of the perpetrators of this particular sort of atrocity; but try, for a minute or two, to imagine that some other group (for example Baptists, who in Britain are mostly white Caucasians) was suspected of carrying out mutilating surgery, in completely uncontrolled conditions and using unqualified practitioners, on its members. The authorities would be all over them like a rash, right?

"The unqualified female elders, known as “house doctors” because they act in secret in a family home, are flown into the country."

OK, fine. Presumably, if this is known, there is at least a strong suspicion of who these people are. Why are they allowed in, in the first place? And the answer to this question has absolutely nothing to do with whether the surgeons are medically qualified or not. And it shouldn't have anything to do with their race, either.

As to the question of whether my post was a threadjack; well, IMHO the practise of FGM is ritual abuse, and it is rather easy to argue that it is satanically inspired. Ergo, satanic ritual abuse. And it's a hell of a lot more common than the (presumably) original subject. Not at all irrelevant.

[Patrick Degan]

The local priest spoke out against the way the family was being treated and the result was that he and his church were raided, he was arrested on the basis of "satanic implements" being found. On close investigation, these turned out to be a black robe thatw as actually his University gown and a "wooden cross"

Let's just hold up a minute... Wouldn't a priest be more likely to be a satanist if he did not possess a crucifix?

In Satanic rituals, the crucifix is hung upside-down so as to reverse the moral order of the divinity. Satanism is a uniquely Christian heresy and the Black Mass is a parody of the Catholic rite.

[CarsonPalmer]

Yes, Rye, the whole point is that FGM is carried out amidst a fog of secrecy. A second point is that there are very few attempts to penetrate the fog. Of course, I can't prove that the fog is generated by the ethnicity of the perpetrators of this particular sort of atrocity; but try, for a minute or two, to imagine that some other group (for example Baptists, who in Britain are mostly white Caucasians) was suspected of carrying out mutilating surgery, in completely uncontrolled conditions and using unqualified practitioners, on its members. The authorities would be all over them like a rash, right?

"The unqualified female elders, known as “house doctors” because they act in secret in a family home, are flown into the country."

OK, fine. Presumably, if this is known, there is at least a strong suspicion of who these people are. Why are they allowed in, in the first place? And the answer to this question has absolutely nothing to do with whether the surgeons are medically qualified or not. And it shouldn't have anything to do with their race, either.

As to the question of whether my post was a threadjack; well, IMHO the practise of FGM is ritual abuse, and it is rather easy to argue that it is satanically inspired. Ergo, satanic ritual abuse. And it's a hell of a lot more common than the (presumably) original subject. Not at all irrelevant.

1. It is actually totally irrelevant to the subject of the thread, which is more generally about moral panics and scares than actual ritual abuse. You have to be intentionally obtuse not to realize that, especially because half the goddamn thread is people making comparisons about other moral scares.

2. Your claim that there is a strong suspicion of who these people are is rather spurious; they would fit a general profile of older African woman, but how do you identify which older African women? How do you prove that they are in the country for the purpose of female circumcision, and not merely visiting relatives? Or do you propose simply banning all older African women from entering Britain?

[Broomstick]

The idea of banning all older African women... hmm.... would pose an interesting dilemma if by that criteria the paternal grandmother of the current PotUS was prohibited from visiting London with her grandson, wouldn't it?

Granted, not all elderly African women are related to world leaders, but it does show that such prohibitions can be troublesome. The problem isn't "all elderly African women" but rather women who perform FGM. It's sheer laziness to simply ban that large a group, most of whom are innocent (FGM being by no means universal in Africa, anyway) rather than go after the actual perpetrators of the crime.

[PainRack]

In Satanic rituals, the crucifix is hung upside-down so as to reverse the moral order of the divinity. Satanism is a uniquely Christian heresy and the Black Mass is a parody of the Catholic rite.

A question here though. Don't previous satanist scares such as the Salem Witch Trials, Spanish Inquisition have political motivations as well as a context? The Salem Witch trials for example took place in the background of various political and economic movements in the Puritian settlements, with various factions agitating for increased power and freedom. At the same time, the American Indian wars has just passed by,with what would amount to war hysteria and a good percentage of americans had died, and Abigail could had been suffering from PTSD, after watching her parents die from Indian attacks. Similarly, the "failure" of the leaders has caused political disconent amongst americans.

Ditto to the Spanish Inquisition, with regards to the Moors, economic dislocation and power struggles between various nobles, the Church and the Muslim invaders.

If so, what was the "background" behind the SRA movement? Is it really just the power grab of pyschologists and a social backlash against women entering the workforce? I would imagine that different countries would have different contextual backgrounds since as you guys point out, the scope of SRA was across nations.

[Stark]

It's arguable any 'heresy' is about social change, and the satanism scares could be seen in this context (particularly seeing that people were prepared to believe anything absurd about anyone who's a 'satanist' because they're outside the majority).

[Rye]

Yes, Rye, the whole point is that FGM is carried out amidst a fog of secrecy. A second point is that there are very few attempts to penetrate the fog. Of course, I can't prove that the fog is generated by the ethnicity of the perpetrators of this particular sort of atrocity; but try, for a minute or two, to imagine that some other group (for example Baptists, who in Britain are mostly white Caucasians) was suspected of carrying out mutilating surgery, in completely uncontrolled conditions and using unqualified practitioners, on its members. The authorities would be all over them like a rash, right?

No, for the same reason they're not all over JWs like a rash when they kill their kids through their evil cult rules.

OK, fine. Presumably, if this is known, there is at least a strong suspicion of who these people are. Why are they allowed in, in the first place? And the answer to this question has absolutely nothing to do with whether the surgeons are medically qualified or not. And it shouldn't have anything to do with their race, either.

How would they know who they were before they got here, and if they're being taken in secret to various houses, how are they meant to track them?

As to the question of whether my post was a threadjack; well, IMHO the practise of FGM is ritual abuse, and it is rather easy to argue that it is satanically inspired. Ergo, satanic ritual abuse. And it's a hell of a lot more common than the (presumably) original subject. Not at all irrelevant.

It is not easy to argue that it's satanic at all, and that is a pitiful attempt to save face over the red herring that NL called you out on. It is exclusively the preserve of African Muslims and Christians in the name of "sexual purity". Satan is at no point an ideological motivator to these people, except to keep him (and his sins of the flesh) at bay. Theistic and LaVeyan Satanism are diametrically opposed to this hatred of sex, meanwhile the Abrahamic religions have several traditions of it. Maimonides even justifies circumcision under that pretense; that it fixes what is wrong with man morally by reducing sexual pleasure.

[NecronLord]

In Satanic rituals, the crucifix is hung upside-down so as to reverse the moral order of the divinity. Satanism is a uniquely Christian heresy and the Black Mass is a parody of the Catholic rite.

Yeah, I have heard that... but it's a priest. Possessing crucifixes is literally his job. It would be substantially more abnormal if he did not own one, no?

[PainRack]

Yeah, I have heard that... but it's a priest. Possessing crucifixes is literally his job. It would be substantially more abnormal if he did not own one, no?

Isn't one of the themes of Satanic cults revolving around the idea of a fallen priest or a dark priest?
A backlash against different demoniations by claiming that different interpretations and church groups are not just heretics, but influenced by the devil themselves?

[Patrick Degan]

In Satanic rituals, the crucifix is hung upside-down so as to reverse the moral order of the divinity. Satanism is a uniquely Christian heresy and the Black Mass is a parody of the Catholic rite.

Yeah, I have heard that... but it's a priest. Possessing crucifixes is literally his job. It would be substantially more abnormal if he did not own one, no?

True, but in the view of those hunting for "evidence" of Satanic Ritual Abuse, perfectly ordinary things can literally become the proof of the charge against the alleged cultist.

[Samuel]

You aren't seeing it NL. Look at it this way- if you confess you are guilty, but if you affirm your innocence... you are trying to delude the prosecuters and are guilty. You know 40Ks "a plea of innocent is guilty of wasting my time"? People actually think that way in a witch hunt.

Everything becomes evidence of guilt, even the lack of evidence because that shows you are obviously hidding something. It feeds upon itself until it overreaches and collapses.

[Androsphinx]

Just passing through & thought I'd bump this thread with some references from a dissertation I beta-read recently.

There's a chapter on Satanic abuse in Michael Shermer's "Why people believe weird things" which IIRC makes several links to Salem.

For a more academic approach, try:

Jenkins, P. (1992) Intimate Enemies: Moral Panics in Contemporary Great Britain, Hawthorne, NY: Aldine de Gruyter,

Jenkins, P. (1998) Moral Panic: Changing Concepts of the Child Molester in Modern America, New Haven, CT: Yale University Press

Kitzinger, J. (2004) Framing Abuse: Media Influence and Public Understandings of Sexual Violence Against Children, London: Pluto

Meyer, A. (2007) The Child at Risk: Paedophiles, Media Responses and Public Opinion, Manchester: University of Manchester Press

Silverman, J. & Wilson, D. (2002) Innocence Betrayed: Paedophilia, the Media and Society, Cambridge: Polity