Miss California: Pro-Opposite Marriage view cost crown

[Kodiak]

Link Here

Former Miss USA Shanna Moakler, who is now the director of the Miss California USA pageant, spent the last few weeks in Las Vegas actively promoting her pageant princess, Carrie Prejean.

But Moakler and her business partner, Keith Lewis, a strong activist against Proposition 8, were so infuriated over Prejean’s answer to Perez Hilton’s gay marriage question during Sunday’s crowning, they refused to make contact with the San Diego native after the show.

While all of the state pageant directors were quick to greet their beauty queens after the live telecast, Moakler and Lewis did not go backstage, nor did they call Prejean to congratulate her on being first runner-up for Miss USA, after Prejean told a national TV audience that she was personally opposed to gay marriage.

Instead, Moakler started Twittering.

"This is why we have judges at Miss USA, so we find the girl to rep us ALL," Moakler Twittered after the pageant.

"I don’t know how you can call a gay man or woman your friend and not want them 2 have the same joys as yourself. In my family we believe in equal rights for all, I am sad and hurt, I agree with Perez 100 [percent]. It's one thing to have an opinion I am very opinionated n have dealt with backlash from it, it's another to alienate people who cared about u."

Moakler, who sources say was very close friends with Prejean (who was first runner-up in the Miss California USA pageant in 2008 before winning in 2009), also issued an apology to her state pageant sponsors on Monday, saying that "Prejean’s opinions do not stand for those of the Miss California family."

According to sources, Moakler, who is best know as Travis Barker's wife in the MTV reality show "Meet the Barkers," and who was Playboy's Miss December 2001, said that she fully supported Lewis' condemnation of Prejean's views.

Sponsors for the 2010 Miss California USA pageant, which will again be held in Palm Springs, have not yet been finalized, and the question remains whether this year's sponsors will re-sign. 2009’s three main official sponsors -- Hotel Zoso, Palm Springs Florist, and Studio 838 -- did not respond for comment.

"Every year, tens of thousands of dollars are donated for the pageant and its prizes," explained a source close to Moakler’s team. "Already she (Moakler) has had to deal with very upset companies, because they gave so much to Carrie, and think she betrayed them. People in California, more so than most states, are particularly passionate about overturning Prop 8 --especially those in the pageant/beauty world."

"Hollywood isn’t just liberal, it is fearfully liberal. It is easier in Hollywood to say you’re a drug addict or to pretty much anything than to admit to being a committed Christian," media expert and longtime Hollywood publicist, Michael Levine of Levine Communications, told FOXnews.com.

Prejean, a student at San Diego Christian College, is studying to become a special education teacher and spends her spare time volunteering for the Best Buddies non profit organization, a program that helps people with disabilities. Prejean is also a volunteer for the Special Olympics.

But according to Equality California, a statewide advocacy group dedicated to winning equal rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, Prejean’s views on gay marriage don't fit with those of her generation.

"It is unfortunate that Miss California, who we note did not win, is so out of touch with the overwhelming majority of people her age that she wants to deny loving, committed couples the rights and dignity that come only with marriage," said Geoff Kors, Executive Director of Equality California.

Prejean has garnered a lot of support nonetheless.

"The majority of California’s voters -- more than 7 million people -- voted to protect traditional marriage, and we congratulate Miss California for her conviction to speak her beliefs," Ron Prentice, chairman of ProtectMarriage.com Coalition, said.

Moakler’s colleague Keith Lewis released a statement to FOXnews.com Monday morning condemning Prejean and saying that "religious beliefs have no politics in the Miss California family." But later in the day he softened his rhetoric.

"I am proud of Carrie Prejean’s beauty and placement at the 2009 MISS USA pageant," Lewis said in a statement issued later on Monday. "I support Carrie’s right to express her personal beliefs even if they do not coincide with my own. I believe the subject of gay marriage deserves a great deal more conversation in order to heal the divide it has created."

According to sources, Lewis was deeply offended by Prejean’s response, but her reign as Miss California doesn’t end until October, so they still have to work together over the coming months.

"It will be interesting to see whether they still bother to promote Carrie and try to boost her career," an inside source said. "They can’t dethrone her because of her opinions, but they might choose just to let her fade away."

I typically don't post Fox News links, but CNN doesn't seem to have this story going and this is fairly big news in California. So, Miss California got asked a gay marriage question by a pro gay-rights activist and didn't give him an answer he liked. The scores were close going into the Q&A, and so this may well have cost her the crown. I wasn't aware that the "Miss" pageants had become so political, but maybe that's because I never watch them. It will be interesting to see if Miss California gets dethroned by a backlash from the sponsors.

[General Zod]

I'm not sure I see why this is a big deal. How is this any different from a candidate giving an answer to any other question the judges wouldn't like other than the fact it's a hot-button issue?

[Kane Starkiller]

"Pro-Opposite Marriage".
Orwell doesn't have shit on this.

[Thanas]

Because the Miss is supposed to represent the whole country?

And it has always been political and heavily commercialized. The point is not simply to look good. They are always supposed to do some representative work and promote companies. Guess what, the Miss peagant doesn't want a homophobe representing them.

[General Zod]

Because the Miss is supposed to represent the whole country?

And it has always been political and heavily commercialized. The point is not simply to look good. They are always supposed to do some representative work and promote companies. Guess what, the Miss peagant doesn't want a homophobe representing them.

That was the point. I don't see why it's a big deal that the committee voted against her because of that.

[Thanas]

Ah, then I misread your post. My apologies.

[FSTargetDrone]

Just wait until she is "interviewed" on some mouth-breather's show about how she was punished for her beliefs, yar yar yar. Beck or Hannity or one of those jokers will have her on, get all breathless and worked up about how her views are being stifled or demeaned. Etc.

[Darth Wong]

"Pro-Opposite Marriage".
Orwell doesn't have shit on this.

Indeed. It's so important to have "pro" in your name that even the most negative movement finds a way to adopt the prefix.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that if the thing they were against was really so bad, they wouldn't have to try to cast their opposition in a positive light. None of the anti drunk driving forces feel bad about having "anti" in their description. You don't see any of them rushing to say "Oh no, I'm not against drunk driving, I'm just PRO sober driving". That's because the thing they oppose is almost universally accepted to be bad.

[Count Chocula]

Here's Miss California's complete answer, including the question Perez Hilton asked:

Hilton: "Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same-sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?"

Prejean: "I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anyone out there but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman."

(emphasis added)

Her answer was phrased pretty awkwardly, but that may have been due to the pressure she was under.

Note that she did not indicate any disapproval of same-sex marriage. After watching the video and reading the transcript, it looks like she gave a straight an honest answer about her personal belief on the subject. She knew Perez Hilton is gay, but she stuck to her answer rather than giving the one Perez probably expected. Perez Hilton, without a doubt, knew that Miss California attends San Diego Christian College and most likely picked his question on purpose (I don't know what the winner's question was; if you do, was it as 'controversial' as the one Prejean was aksed?).

However, she did not answer the question Perez asked and the judges were entirely within their rights to choose another winner.

In my opinion, Hilton, the Miss California pageant chairman, and Equality California overreacted. Congrats, you've made the runner-up a celebrity! And to conclude from Prejean's response that she's homophobic is just fucking absurd.

Perez Hilton, by the way, apologized for calling her a dumb bitch:

...apparently Perez has slept on it, because now he's saying he'd love to take Miss California out for coffee and "talk."

[Darth Wong]

That puts her in the middle of the road for Americans, politically speaking. But it's still bad; imagine if she said "I don't believe whites and blacks should be able to intermarry because that's just how I was raised" but added a disclaimer that she thinks it's great she lives in a free country where people are able to choose (so long as they live in a handful of states which have made this freedom available). Sure, people might moderate their view of her a little bit, but they would still call her a racist without hesitation.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I saw clips of the pageant, and the questions they were asking in general were ones Obama would have trouble answering; Do you think it's right for the government to use tax money to bail out corporations?

How the HELL is a Miss America supposed to answer that satisfactorily?

[General Zod]

In my opinion, Hilton, the Miss California pageant chairman, and Equality California overreacted. Congrats, you've made the runner-up a celebrity! And to conclude from Prejean's response that she's homophobic is just fucking absurd.

Have you ignored every single proposition 8 thread on the board? "I believe marriage should be between one man and one woman" is exactly the same language that Prop 8 supporters use when they want to say "I don't think those dirty homosexuals should have the right to marry". This is just their way of being PC about it.

[Darth Wong]

I saw clips of the pageant, and the questions they were asking in general were ones Obama would have trouble answering; Do you think it's right for the government to use tax money to bail out corporations?

How the HELL is a Miss America supposed to answer that satisfactorily?

The problem with beauty pageants is that they have a serious crisis of identity. They became sensitive to the charge of promoting brainless beauty so they started trying to inject high-IQ pretensions into the whole affair, even though that defeats the point of a beauty pageant and makes the whole thing downright schizophrenic. If it's really a talent contest and test of education and awareness, then it's a scholarship program, not a beauty pageant. But if that were the case, then beauty would be irrelevant.

This mishmash of "beauty pageant" and "scholarship contest" makes no sense.

[Kodiak]

This mishmash of "beauty pageant" and "scholarship contest" makes no sense.

But then we get pearls of wisdom like this.

[Themightytom]

That puts her in the middle of the road for Americans, politically speaking. But it's still bad; imagine if she said "I don't believe whites and blacks should be able to intermarry because that's just how I was raised" but added a disclaimer that she thinks it's great she lives in a free country where people are able to choose (so long as they live in a handful of states which have made this freedom available). Sure, people might moderate their view of her a little bit, but they would still call her a racist without hesitation.

Given that example I would say she has discriminitary tendencies.

rac⋅ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
http://www.dictionary.com

i interpreted her response as expressing her own opinion, which at that stage it was apropriate to do. iff she became miss california and and attended a propistion 8 support rally THAT would be innapropriate, but her answer demonstrates tha she is concious of the difference between expressing a personal opinion and expressing one on behalf of her... "Constituency"

its understandable that there would be that sense of betrayal from someone considering her a close friend but i don't think everyone else within the sound of his rage should buy into it so quickly.

I don't flip out every time a hispanic assumes I speak spanish, or declares that I should learn it because of my last name. They are not often making the assumption that the culture I embrace is not adequate, they are simply seeking homogeny. Similiarly it would be convenient if everyone had an identical belief structure, but it is acceptable at least to me, that people be tolerant of diversity. preferable in fact because if that homogeny existed there would be no diversity.

In her role as Miss California she should represent tolerance of diversity, not the requirement of strict adherence to a homogenous belief structure.

[Keevan_Colton]

That puts her in the middle of the road for Americans, politically speaking. But it's still bad; imagine if she said "I don't believe whites and blacks should be able to intermarry because that's just how I was raised" but added a disclaimer that she thinks it's great she lives in a free country where people are able to choose (so long as they live in a handful of states which have made this freedom available). Sure, people might moderate their view of her a little bit, but they would still call her a racist without hesitation.

Given that example I would say she has discriminitary tendencies.

A sort of diet racism?

[Darth Wong]

That puts her in the middle of the road for Americans, politically speaking. But it's still bad; imagine if she said "I don't believe whites and blacks should be able to intermarry because that's just how I was raised" but added a disclaimer that she thinks it's great she lives in a free country where people are able to choose (so long as they live in a handful of states which have made this freedom available). Sure, people might moderate their view of her a little bit, but they would still call her a racist without hesitation.

Given that example I would say she has discriminitary tendencies.

Are you one of those people who thinks racial discrimination is not racist?

[General Zod]

i interpreted her response as expressing her own opinion, which at that stage it was apropriate to do. iff she became miss california and and attended a propistion 8 support rally THAT would be innapropriate, but her answer demonstrates tha she is concious of the difference between expressing a personal opinion and expressing one on behalf of her... "Constituency"

How does the fact that it's her own opinion not make it homophobic? Frankly the fact that the question is included at all is kind of retarded when there's only one acceptable answer, but I suppose that's the nature of these pageants.

[Covenant]

I don't flip out every time a hispanic assumes I speak spanish, or declares that I should learn it because of my last name. They are not often making the assumption that the culture I embrace is not adequate, they are simply seeking homogeny. Similiarly it would be convenient if everyone had an identical belief structure, but it is acceptable at least to me, that people be tolerant of diversity. preferable in fact because if that homogeny existed there would be no diversity.

What does all this word vomit mean? Are you saying we need to respect people for having a 'diverse' thinking, even if they're part of the spectrum that is cruel and hurtful? No, there's no societal benefit to part of it still clinging to hate, so this is a segment where a higher degree of same-thinking would be preferable. You don't applaud someone for representing the diversity of thought when that diversity is the combination of tolerance and bigotry. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it's not hard to just come out and say what you want--using all these "homogenous belief structure" phrases makes it sounds like you want to mince terms, and there's no mincing required here. She has an opinion about something, and it's the wrong one.

The politics are much ado about nothing, as are all these ridiculous beauty shows. Some ditzy blonde expouses some retarded view, and people are aghast--if she was from Texas, I doubt most people would have been terribly surprised, it's just that it was California, and that this may have made her less desirable to all the sponsors. There's no higher purpose to these pagents, so if she's got bottom-barrel thinking in a few high-profile political issues, it's well within their rights to grade her down on that.

I can't in good faith feel bad that an asinine opinion lost her the crown, as it is an asinine opinion. Saying that it was at all justified due to her upbringing is backwards thinking, it makes it understandable why she'd think it, but it doesn't make it okay.

[Knife]

Her answer was phrased pretty awkwardly, but that may have been due to the pressure she was under.

All well and good I suppose, however it would still be and should be a mark against her in a competition.

Note that she did not indicate any disapproval of same-sex marriage. After watching the video and reading the transcript, it looks like she gave a straight an honest answer about her personal belief on the subject.

Oh bullshit, she gave heavy disapproval of it and then made a loophole for herself to copout to.

She knew Perez Hilton is gay, but she stuck to her answer rather than giving the one Perez probably expected.

Then she's a moron as well as a bigot. How the hell do you go into a competition and not consider what the person and/or judge is judging you on? If a judge asks a question, you better damn well think about what they want as an answer. Whether if it is what that judge wants you to say or whether the judge expects you to answer honestly or any other reason. You better damn well consider what they WANT for you.

Perez Hilton, without a doubt, knew that Miss California attends San Diego Christian College and most likely picked his question on purpose (I don't know what the winner's question was; if you do, was it as 'controversial' as the one Prejean was aksed?).

I'm sure he asked a question that was closes to his heart, doesn't change the fact that she should have considered the source of the question and the sources impact on her chances of winning.

In my opinion, Hilton, the Miss California pageant chairman, and Equality California overreacted. Congrats, you've made the runner-up a celebrity! And to conclude from Prejean's response that she's homophobic is just fucking absurd.

Sure, for the hard right she's now a hero. good for her, a solid 10% of the population will probably like her. Good luck with the other 90%

[Knife]

BTW, Hilton apparently retracted his apology.

[Themightytom]

That puts her in the middle of the road for Americans, politically speaking. But it's still bad; imagine if she said "I don't believe whites and blacks should be able to intermarry because that's just how I was raised" but added a disclaimer that she thinks it's great she lives in a free country where people are able to choose (so long as they live in a handful of states which have made this freedom available). Sure, people might moderate their view of her a little bit, but they would still call her a racist without hesitation.

Given that example I would say she has discriminitary tendencies.

Are you one of those people who thinks racial discrimination is not racist?

"Those people" :-p

no, racial discrimination is by definition racist, discrimination on the other hand doesn't equal racism, and with regards to the original topic, there are more variables involved, her atitudes towards homosexuality, her attitudes towards gender roles her attitudes towards religious tolerance even. She's not automatically a homophobe because of a single belief, unless a consistent pattern emerges.

[General Zod]

She's not automatically a homophobe because of a single belief, unless a consistent pattern emerges.

You realize the language she used is precisely the same language used by Proposition 8 apologists, yes?

[Themightytom]

How does the fact that it's her own opinion not make it homophobic? Frankly the fact that the question is included at all is kind of retarded when there's only one acceptable answer, but I suppose that's the nature of these pageants.

Homphobic: unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.
dictionary.com

I hope i'm not being a DB with all the dictioanry quotes i am just on convvroversial ground and want to make my vocabulary clear. i wouldn't disagree that her opinion appears homophobic, i somehow doubt she has an elaborate system of reasoning to back up her assertion and considering she is good ffriends with a homosexual it wouldn't take much for her to reconsider her position. A person making the assertion that "marriage should be between a man and a woman" is no more a homophobe than a person asserting that "a woman has a right to choose" is a murderer.

[CaptainChewbacca]

BTW, Hilton apparently retracted his apology.

Wait, I heard he appologized, but why did he RETRACT his appology? This guy is as big an attention whore as that OTHER Hilton we all know and loathe.