GOP: 'Socialism' lost the punch. 'Fascism' will work!

[CarsonPalmer]

Do you point out that North Korea officially calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea when it is neither a democracy or a republic?

Among many other objections, yes, but usually I give up, especially because their response is that the Nazis controlled all aspects of German life, just like socialists would. Some people are just too far gone.

[Prannon]

I think this is potentially illuminating to some of the problem right here-- up against Reagan, the Democratic Party ran Mondale, who was not exactly a lightning rod of dynamism after Carter. So I think some of Reagan's "victory" wasn't so much Reagan but "not-Mondale" feeling.

Keep in mind that Reagan was also very popular on top of all that. There's always an element of "he's not the other guy" in every election, but when the candidate is popular and likable in addition, it makes for a powerful force indeed. So far Obama seems off to a good start on both counts.

Reagan brought a lot of Christian activists into the GOP tent with his rhetoric, but when you look at it, he really did little to further their agenda beyond giving them a voice. And when George Bush-I tried to capitalize on that with his whole schtick in 1992 about "Family Values" while the economy was crumbling, he lost-- so Democrats didn't realize that the guy had actually struck a chord with voters; "Family Values" did mean something to his voters but due to his election loss, Democrats thought that it had been an issue that failed. So they discounted it as a mobilizing issue in elections to come.

Which just goes to show how much Reagan's victory in 1980, and yes, it was a victory (although maybe not for the Christian activists that got him elected), effected American politics.

My ultimate point is that Reagan's election saw the country swing decidedly to the right for a number of years. Obama's election may see the country swing decidedly to the left for a number of years. Mr. Wong's pessimism aside, I think it is entirely possible since all the trends seem to be pointing in that direction. Fewer practicing Christians, more people with no religious affiliation, decreasing Republican voter registration, disarray in the Republican party, virtually no change in message, and the eventual decline of the Boomer generation... The stage is set for the Democrats to define a new message that will resonate with a majority of the voting populace.

The words Socialism and Fascism applied here will scare the fringe of the right into a blind, frothing mob, but I'm not sure that it will have quite the same effect that it had in the past among moderates and independents. It certainly doesn't for me, and I used to be one of those fringe right-wingers myself.

[The Yosemite Bear]

to be a student of history is to be a pessimist.

sorry, I've seen or read about this sort of thing all too many times before....

[Prannon]

to be a student of history is to be a pessimist.

sorry, I've seen or read about this sort of thing all too many times before....

True, but I'm also a student of history, and I merely see a pattern repeating. It's just heading in the opposite direction this time.

[The Yosemite Bear]

remember after Nero fucked the Roman Empire but good, what happened, and how many Caesars did we go through in the span of just a year?

[CaptainChewbacca]

remember after Nero fucked the Roman Empire but good, what happened, and how many Caesars did we go through in the span of just a year?

It was the Year of Four Emperors. Not a great time.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yup, and Nero did fuck the empire's economy and military but goood too, not to mention the katrina great fire parallees////

what the fear is, that the mob will go yo-yo ing between political extremes not doing anything...

[Rye]

Has anyone mentioned that Socialism and Facisim are two TOTALLY opposite and conflicting ideologies? That in one breath calling Obama a Communist, and in the next calling him a Facisit is like calling someone an Atheist Muslim?

There's a few ways they try to justify it; one is the obvious problem of trying to affiliate all government oppression with the left, the other one is that fascism as per Mussolini wanted a "free market" that the government was the ultimate arbiter of. So when Obama gets people in to control companies that have been ripping people off, he's acting like a fascist, because obviously, wanting to keep an economy going by forcing it to work right is the reason we all hate the fascists.

And I don't know where YB gets his Nero information from. Nero was quite a decent emperor that helped out immediately when Rome was burning. He also did a lot to make things better for the lower classes; though he was notably mean to Christians. His economic woes were due to other forces, and the public works he invested in at the time were useful for the people.

[Tiriol]

yup, and Nero did fuck the empire's economy and military but goood too, not to mention the katrina great fire parallees////

what the fear is, that the mob will go yo-yo ing between political extremes not doing anything...

This one deserves nitpicking: the great fire of Rome was in the very heart of the Empire, the city from which all the subservient nations were controlled and Imperial power projected. However tragic and horrifying Katrina was, it still didn't hit Washington DC. And depending on the account, Nero might actually have taken part in fighting the raging fire.

To be a student of history is to also use one's intelligence, not simply do exercises in pessimism.

[Thanas]

Actually, there was nothing wrong with Nero's reaction to the fire. All measures taken reflect that Nero took efficient measures and responded in a very dilligent manner.

To be a serious student of history means also critically examining the sources.

[Tiriol]

Actually, there was nothing wrong with Nero's reaction to the fire. All measures taken reflect that Nero took efficient measures and responded in a very dilligent manner.

To be a serious student of history means also critically examining the sources.

I was under the impression that the account of Nero playing flute during the fire was spread by his political enemies in any case. And it certainly didn't help later on that Nero persecuted Christians, so they portrayed him in as bad light as possible.

[Thanas]

The flute legend has no real basis in history.