Morality of Prositution.

[Knife]

Local headline caught my eye;

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6227971

Raises the issue of [1]is the oldest profession wrong, [2]does it automatically imply the workers are mentally ill or addicts by virtue of association, [3] those who emply the illicit art as wrong doers even if they have 'family'.

[bilateralrope]

Why would prostitution be wrong if the prostitutes are doing it of their own free will ?

[Knife]

I dont necessarily prescribe to it, but the counter argument is; how do you judge if they are doing it of their own free will? Is being poor enough of a reason? Or how about being poor and desperate and joining a pimp? I really don't think there is a black and white scenario here.

edit; which is why I think it is worthy of discussion.

[Singular Intellect]

I dont necessarily prescribe to it, but the counter argument is; how do you judge if they are doing it of their own free will? Is being poor enough of a reason? Or how about being poor and desperate and joining a pimp? I really don't think there is a black and white scenario here.

edit; which is why I think it is worthy of discussion.

Depends on your definition of 'free will'. I have to eat if I want to survive, therefore it's not 'free will' to eat either.

Quite frankly, prostitution is a activity we will never get rid of, so long as people are interested in fucking. So legalize it, monitor it, implement as many safety features as possible, and tax it like any other working force.

Just think, wouldn't it be great that if instead of fleeing from the police, prostitutes could count on them for protection? Pimps go extinct and jails get emptied of people who engage in mostly harmless activities. Mandatory checkups for prostitutes would increase overall health and safety as well. You could have designated prostitution areas, getting rid of uncomfortable 'some John getting a blowjob in front on someone's home' incidents. You could have facilities dedicated to helping protitutes leave the life if they want, within the legalized prostitution areas.

It's a win win situation.

[Kanastrous]

Yeah. I have zero objection to prostitution per se.

But pimps ought to be torn apart between wild horses.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I think it's moral as long as it's being done of one's own free will. As for being forced to it by poverty, the immorality of that situation ( to the extent there is one ) is in poverty forcing you to do anything. There's plenty of awful jobs that people are forced into by circumstances, and I don't see prostitution as innately more awful to be forced into than a lot of other jobs.

[Stark]

Local headline caught my eye;

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6227971

Raises the issue of [1]is the oldest profession wrong, [2]does it automatically imply the workers are mentally ill or addicts by virtue of association, [3] those who emply the illicit art as wrong doers even if they have 'family'.

Apply this reasoning to religion; hilarity ensues.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I work at a factory. I don't like the work I do there, it is mindless, repetitive and tiring. Technically I'm 'voluntarily' going in there as I am free to simply stop going, and no one will force me to come to work. But if I don't go, I'll get fired, lose my income, no longer be able to afford rent or food, and probably die.

...so can it be truly said that I'm going to work out of my own free-will?

Take out the illegality, drugs and pimps, stick in some proper regulation and health standards, and prostitution is much a much safer and more enjoyable occupation than factory work. Tax it and it will provide a nice boost to the economy. Remove some of the social stigma and it will cut down massively on psychoses related to sexual repression (which often can lead to destructive behaviour to one's self or others).

So, 1) It's about as wrong as factory-work. 2) They're mentally ill only if sex is considered a sign of mental illness. 3) Umm, I have no idea what you're trying to say there.

[Tolya]

The only major thing that I can say against prostitution is that it is often linked with other crimes, like drug dealing or slavery (which unfortunately still exists in Europe, as young girls are kidnapped from eastern european countries like Ukraine and forced to work in brothels).

But these problems would be solved if prostitution would be legalized. Tax, control and protect. Pornstars are technically also prostitutes (as dictionary.com states that prostitution is "the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money") but you don't hear about arrests or raids on production houses. That is a legalized industry, which even maintains it's own health standards (monthly medical check-ups). Why can't we have the same with traditional prostitution?

Pimps are assholes, but if you can't reach out to the local government for protection, all you end up with is some back alley motherfucker to make sure your next client won't beat you up or kill you.

[Rye]

Prostitution is, for me, covered under the same sorts of manual labour as dancing, running or bricklaying. They're all using their bodies in a specific way to get money. I don't see why sex can't be just as legitimately sold as any other labour that people are willing to pay for.

[Chris OFarrell]

And in more then a few countries it is.

Australia, for example, has legalized brothels which are covered under Government regulations, with mandated checkups, medical rules and all manner of things, so you can eliminate the pimps, the drugs, and all the associated problems therein.
Some escorts I'm sure do their work because they enjoy it, at least as much as most people enjoy their own work, good days and bad days, and they make a fuckload (pardon the pun) of money of out it. At least in the legitimate side of things.

Of course, by REFUSING to have a completely legal and less stigmatized sex industry of this sort, you do utterly nothing to the demand side of the equation (oldest profession isn't just a catch phrase) but force the supply side into the sex slaves, drugs, health horror side of things which doesn't help anyone (except the criminals of course).

[Knife]

Small clarification, 3) has a typo, but was intended to talk about the 'Johns' that employ the prostitute and how they are usually painted as immoral.

As an aside, I actually have zero problems with what most here have said, in that without the criminal element and stigma attached, I see little wrong with it. I just read the article and was a bit surprised that some of the old 'reasons' against prostitution were still going strong.

[dragon]

Here in Germany it's just another job, you pay taxes on it, you get medical care and pay into the retirement system. And there's no crime associated with it or very little crime.

[Singular Intellect]

Prostitution is, for me, covered under the same sorts of manual labour as dancing, running or bricklaying. They're all using their bodies in a specific way to get money. I don't see why sex can't be just as legitimately sold as any other labour that people are willing to pay for.

To quote George Carlton "Sex is legal, selling in legal, so why can't you sell sex? There's a lot more worse shit out there being sold than simply giving someone a orgasm."

[Thanas]

Here in Germany it's just another job, you pay taxes on it, you get medical care and pay into the retirement system. And there's no crime associated with it or very little crime.

The legal argument for it is that it prevents rapes, btw.

[Singular Intellect]

Here in Germany it's just another job, you pay taxes on it, you get medical care and pay into the retirement system. And there's no crime associated with it or very little crime.

The legal argument for it is that it prevents rapes, btw.

My mother was raised in Germany, and according to her, at least the perception there is women are much safer from rape. Who's going to risk prison time when a handful of cash can get you the exact same thing?

[Thanas]

Data for Germany:
7.511 cases of rape and sexual coercion/assault reported for 2007, Population of 82 million
Source = pdf.

USA:
191,670 cases of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005, population of 306 million. Source.


The perception seems to be correct.

[Lagmonster]

My mother was raised in Germany, and according to her, at least the perception there is women are much safer from rape. Who's going to risk prison time when a handful of cash can get you the exact same thing?

How many rapes are about a desire for sex versus a desire to humiliate and hurt someone?

[salm]

It´s not true that there are no crimes associated with prostitution in Germany. There is trouble with forced, illegal sex slaves imported from eastern European countries for example.
This would also be a problem if prostitution was illegal, i´m just saying that if you legalize prostitutions not all problems will magically go away. Some problems will, but other problems remain. You just have to see that some problems associated with prostitution are not necessarily also caused by prostitution.

[Oskuro]

How many rapes are about a desire for sex versus a desire to humiliate and hurt someone?

How many deviant sexual fetishes, like the need to hurt or humiliate your partner, evolve from sexual repression?

[Dark Flame]

I was discussing this with my conservative roommates, and they weren't opposed to legalizing it, they were opposed to taxing it. To me, it seems obvious that you tax it like many groceries or other services. Is there a reason to not tax it other than "cut taxes cut taxes cut taxes " ?

Also, I'm sure there are better reasons to tax prostitution, or at least something that is a precedent for taxing (legal) prostitution.

[Knife]

I was discussing this with my conservative roommates, and they weren't opposed to legalizing it, they were opposed to taxing it. To me, it seems obvious that you tax it like many groceries or other services. Is there a reason to not tax it other than "cut taxes cut taxes cut taxes " ?

Also, I'm sure there are better reasons to tax prostitution, or at least something that is a precedent for taxing (legal) prostitution.

I don't know. Taxing it is one way to have a hands on regulation so...

[Oskuro]

Taxing is a way to pay for, you know, all the needs of the sector, from health support to security, as well as education. Even though it is true that tax money is often diverted into private hands, a lot of people seem unable to understand that the purpose of taxes is to allow the government to pay for things, and making prostitution legal will require a hefty investment.

[Darth Wong]

Why does anyone even need to have the need for taxation explained to him, when the country has been deficit-spending for years? It's like a guy who's drowning in credit card debt folding his arms and asking "OK, explain to me again why you think I should cut back on my discretionary spending! Do you hate my freedom?"

[Darth Wong]

My mother was raised in Germany, and according to her, at least the perception there is women are much safer from rape. Who's going to risk prison time when a handful of cash can get you the exact same thing?

How many rapes are about a desire for sex versus a desire to humiliate and hurt someone?

Ah, but is the desire to humiliate and hurt women itself also a symptom of some other social syndrome, such as systematic alienation of genders in a society which suffers from sexual repression?

There is a strong correlation between sexual repression and misogynism as you look at the world's nations. I doubt that's coincidence.