The Force Unleashed - yes, I know I'm late to the party.

[Darth Onasi]

Thanks for explaining why you don't like TFU and can't be objective about the attributes of it's story. And sorry, a part of the TFU ZOMG SUPAH FIGHTAH angle is that you're Darth Vader's apprentice. Frankly I think it was a good decision as it clearly tells everyone 'this is a game where things are different', like the high-end powers and the comedy physics.

Because Vader was well known for dropping TIE fighters on people and chain-force lightning 50 people at once right?

You mean unlike Carth, who likes characters just because they're tough and evil?

Apparently my observations made in jest are canon now. Who knew?

Only fanservice with tits is allowed; designing characters and settings to sell games is terrible.

You think I approve of the other vulgar methods used to attract buyers?

ITT we discover Onasi thinks it's impossible for Bail Organa to be a conservative Jedi loyalist!

IIT we discover Stark can't read, because what I *said* was it would be stupid to want a Jedi as a figurehead regardless of what the leaders think.

[Stark]

Yeah it's unoriginal. But my point is TFU doesn't do anything the least bit original (for Star Wars) and the few attempts it does to "go outside the box" fall flat on their faces. Vader would be a bad dad. No, really?

Stop agreeing with him and arguing just to prove how edgy and nerd-cool you are for hating TFU. It's pretty sad you think the game doesn't do anything 'original' for a SW game when it has original gameplay features, original premise, new events in the story, much more characterisation of Vader and the Apprentice, etc etc.

Oh wait, you just don't like it.

KOTOR is hardly my baby. I'm simply not a fanboy. I see it's flaws. What I don't see however is what's so objectionable about it's plot.
TFU on the other hand has a useless, downright intelligence insulting plot designed solely to shoe-horn in somebody's pet fanwank character into the franchise.

I thought you didn't care about the EU? I don't, and I can comfortably ignore whatever is in the plot of TFU. So I care EVEN LESS THAN YOU. I can just think straight.

Because Vader was well known for dropping TIE fighters on people and chain-force lightning 50 people at once right?

Did you just try to contradict my statement about the game having a different angle by saying it has things Vader never did, ie new things? You're a fucking moron.

Apparently my observations made in jest are canon now. Who knew?

Sorry, I thought you didn't care about the EU and canon. Please make up your mind.

In any case, singling TFU out for having juvenile fanservice is clearly broken and wrong, so that's another of your feeble attempts to justify hating TFU gone. Why can't you just admit you don't like it? I don't like it either, but you don't see me crying like a little fanboy bitch about it.

You think I approve of the other vulgar methods used to attract buyers?

Uhhh... what? People make games to make money. You think the whole OMG BE A JEDI CHOP TEH SITHZ in KotoR wasn't a draw? OMG SO VULGAR. Onasi does not approve!

IIT we discover Stark can't read, because what I *said* was it would be stupid to want a Jedi as a figurehead regardless of what the leaders think.

Uh, the leaders think it'd be a good idea. Bail wants to, and he's a leader. Uhhhhh.....

[Darth Onasi]

Stop agreeing with him and arguing just to prove how edgy and nerd-cool you are for hating TFU. It's pretty sad you think the game doesn't do anything 'original' for a SW game when it has original gameplay features, original premise, new events in the story, much more characterisation of Vader and the Apprentice, etc etc.

Oh wait, you just don't like it.

Original gameplay? More like a re-hash of Jedi Knight with zomg more advanced phisiks.
Original premise? Bad guy is manipulated by EVIL EMPEROR and SEES THE LIGHT. Yeah.
New events that don't make any sense and you disregard them all anyway?
Characterisation that undermines Vader even further than the PT already did?

Yeah, I don't like that.

I thought you didn't care about the EU? I don't, and I can comfortably ignore whatever is in the plot of TFU. So I care EVEN LESS THAN YOU. I can just think straight.

So you can sit through the plot because you can disregard it all. Think about that for a moment.

Did you just try to contradict my statement about the game having a different angle by saying it has things Vader never did, ie new things? You're a fucking moron.

No, I'm pointing out the absurdity of being Darth Vader's apprentice yet not doing a damn thing the way Vader would do it.

Sorry, I thought you didn't care about the EU and canon. Please make up your mind.

Internal game canon much?

In any case, singling TFU out for having juvenile fanservice is clearly broken and wrong, so that's another of your feeble attempts to justify hating TFU gone. Why can't you just admit you don't like it? I don't like it either, but you don't see me crying like a little fanboy bitch about it.

I'll single it out because if you take the fanservice away what do you have? An odd, broken little game with a generic playable character.

Uhhh... what? People make games to make money. You think the whole OMG BE A JEDI CHOP TEH SITHZ in KotoR wasn't a draw? OMG SO VULGAR. Onasi does not approve!

There's a difference between attracting buyers with good methods, and attracting them with vulgar methods such as HAY LOOK BIKINI CHAINMAIL ARMOUR or indeed HAY U PLAY AS THIS HARDCORE MACHO SKINHEAD WHO KILLS WITH TEH FORCE AND IS DARTH VADAR'S ADOPTED SON LOLOLOL.

Uh, the leaders think it'd be a good idea. Bail wants to, and he's a leader. Uhhhhh.....

The leaders think it's a good idea to place a discredited figure as the head of their movement.
Despite Bail not asking Obi-Wan or Yoda to consider it for the future.
Despite the Rebellion never putting Luke in such a position.

Uhuh. Yeah. Sure.

[Trogdor]

What the hell? Force Lightning is broken. It's the easiest way to kill the most powerful enemies in the game, like AT-ST variants, the big Junk Golems and Rancors. It even kills multiple enemies at a time - I usually used Force Repulse for crowd control, but Lightning is potentially more useful because it does more damage.

Are you kidding? I lost count of the number of times I drained my force bar blasting a group of stormtroopers with lightning, only to have them shrug it off and attack. A lot of them would take two or three full barrages to kill. Only the most basic type of stormtrooper would go down with one.

And yeah, it's the easiest way to kill some of the most powerful enemies. In fact, for me, it was pretty much the only way to kill AT-STs and Rancors and stuff like that. The problem was, "use force lightning, run from enemy until force bar refills, use force lightning again, repeat over and over" is boring.

[Stark]

Original gameplay? More like a re-hash of Jedi Knight with zomg more advanced phisiks.
Original premise? Bad guy is manipulated by EVIL EMPEROR and SEES THE LIGHT. Yeah.
New events that don't make any sense and you disregard them all anyway?
Characterisation that undermines Vader even further than the PT already did?

Yeah, I don't like that.

Oh man I didn't think you'd fall for the hooks! If your definition of 'original' is so stringent, then Mario had a jump button so Skydiving simulators are 'uninspired'.

I hate to say it, but yeah, the playstyle isn't that of other SW games, the plot is contrived by not a Sith xyz plot, things happen that are in no other game (unlike tired rehashes etc). Ford thinks this makes it more original than KotoR, and you don't so you're crying about it. It's hilarious.

And holy shit decide if you care about canon or not. I think the TFU finale is retarded from an OT perspective, but who cares? All the games have shit plots, and at least this one is fun.

So you can sit through the plot because you can disregard it all. Think about that for a moment.

LOL. Quote me saying that? My point is that I dont' care what it does to the setting because I don't consider games relevant. This isn't 'sitting through' the plot because I disregard it, but IS exactly the attitude I have to KotoR's plot.

No, I'm pointing out the absurdity of being Darth Vader's apprentice yet not doing a damn thing the way Vader would do it.

Holy shit, Fords right - you're a moron. You do things the way VADER TRAINED YOU FROM CHILDHOOD TO DO IT. Did you even play the game?

Internal game canon much?

Game doesn't contradict itself, so ... uh?

I'll single it out because if you take the fanservice away what do you have? An odd, broken little game with a generic playable character.

No, Onasi... we KNOW you're a hopelessly biased and subjective fanboy who's just butthurt. You don't need to keep telling us.

That said, KotoR is Baldur's Gate. You LOVE IT IN THE BUTT. So... what? Frankly I found the sword-choppy parts of TFU to be the most entertaining and I'm something on a connuiseur of such things, so 'odd broken little game' is a complete falsehood. If they'd called it Attack of the MageNinja it would have sold less because nerds like you are brand-loyal, that's all.

There's a difference between attracting buyers with good methods, and attracting them with vulgar methods such as HAY LOOK BIKINI CHAINMAIL ARMOUR or indeed HAY U PLAY AS THIS HARDCORE MACHO SKINHEAD WHO KILLS WITH TEH FORCE AND IS DARTH VADAR'S ADOPTED SON LOLOLOL.

You're right, your assbuddy game and TFU both have fanservice. What does this tell us?

Aside from 'Onasi doesn't like the character design and obsesses over trivia like lightsabre stance', I mean.

The leaders think it's a good idea to place a discredited figure as the head of their movement.
Despite Bail not asking Obi-Wan or Yoda to consider it for the future.
Despite the Rebellion never putting Luke in such a position.

Uhuh. Yeah. Sure.

Now, this is a secret so I'll speak quietly and slowly.

TFU may not... and I say MAY NOT ... be entirely compatible with canon. People MIGHT do and say things they would not normally do in the movies or EU. Don't tell anyone.

That said your specific examples are retarded. Yoda retreated from the world, and Obi-Wan clearly told Bail where he was since he sent Leia there later. By the time of Luke, the political situation had totally changed and THERE WASN'T A SENATE and BAIL WAS DEAD.

I mean we could list all the stupid plot shit from KotoR, but that's irrelevant to the thread since you already admitted you agree with Ford's statement and are now just being butthurt because he said a bad thing about KotoR.

Trogdor, I couldn't use lightning for shit either. I pretty much used choppy-chop most of the time. :S

[Samuel]

You mean unlike Carth, who likes characters just because they're tough and evil? Only fanservice with tits is allowed; designing characters and settings to sell games is terrible.

Actually he flees for his life in terror. Also they mostly cut out the lesbian romance.

The leaders think it's a good idea to place a discredited figure as the head of their movement.
Despite Bail not asking Obi-Wan or Yoda to consider it for the future.
Despite the Rebellion never putting Luke in such a position.

I thought they did put Luke in that position.

That said, KotoR is Baldur's Gate.

Lies. Seriously, Baldur's Gate is a different category. I never got it... you know why? Because you have to think- there is more than "stab, stab, heal".

[Stark]

How do you mean? The perspective and specific mechanics are different, but it's the same long-winded talking and dialogue around item- and stat-based combat. KotoR is more advanced technically but Baldur's Gate is more advanced in a narrative sense.

Oh wait, I'm stupid - you're saying they're not the same because Baldur's Gate is more complex?

[Samuel]

How do you mean? The perspective and specific mechanics are different, but it's the same long-winded talking and dialogue around item- and stat-based combat. KotoR is more advanced technically but Baldur's Gate is more advanced in a narrative sense.

Oh wait, I'm stupid - you're saying they're not the same because Baldur's Gate is more complex?

I'm saying they aren't the same because it requires thinking and planning to win. Which I notice and consider a major difference because I am really bad at it.

Since you don't suck at games you probably use different criteria.

[Oskuro]

Gee, so much drama about this game! Please, allow me to contribute my main complaint about TFU's gameplay:
Spoiler

NO FUCKING PC VERSION! DIE IN A VAT OF SALT-COVERED-GLASS SHARDS, YOU STUPID LUCASARTS PRICKS!

So there, KotOR was better, issue settled.

[Stark]

We needed more stupid one-dimensional analysis, thanks for that.

[Oskuro]

My pleasure, want some knee-jerking on the side?

[Darth Onasi]

Oh man I didn't think you'd fall for the hooks! If your definition of 'original' is so stringent, then Mario had a jump button so Skydiving simulators are 'uninspired'.

Stringent? No more than you're being for KOTOR.

I hate to say it, but yeah, the playstyle isn't that of other SW games,

It's Jedi Knight with added gimmicks.

the plot is contrived by not a Sith xyz plot,

Instead it's a contrived betrayal plot. Yay.

things happen that are in no other game (unlike tired rehashes etc). Ford thinks this makes it more original than KotoR, and you don't so you're crying about it. It's hilarious.

Please go ahead and detail the things that happen that are so unlike other Star Wars games then, because all I've heard so far is baseless claims.

And holy shit decide if you care about canon or not. I think the TFU finale is retarded from an OT perspective, but who cares? All the games have shit plots, and at least this one is fun.

That's your opinion. Some games have fine plots. But even assuming the stance of "Stark hates all game storylines, therefore they suck" TFU's is daft beyond all hope of salvation.

LOL. Quote me saying that? My point is that I dont' care what it does to the setting because I don't consider games relevant. This isn't 'sitting through' the plot because I disregard it, but IS exactly the attitude I have to KotoR's plot.

Then it might as well call itself Angry Dude: Adventures of the Telekinetic Skinhead.
If it calls itself Star Wars, it should at least try not to mess with the continuity of the damn movies too much.

Holy shit, Fords right - you're a moron. You do things the way VADER TRAINED YOU FROM CHILDHOOD TO DO IT. Did you even play the game?

Thanks for providing a definition of apprentice.
Now explain why Vader would train someone from childhood to do things he has never displayed even the slightest capability or interest of doing.

Game doesn't contradict itself, so ... uh?

Oh for god's sake. You tried to use something I said in jest about Carth against KOTOR and I asked if my random musings are now KOTOR canon.

No, Onasi... we KNOW you're a hopelessly biased and subjective fanboy who's just butthurt. You don't need to keep telling us.

You're the one who continually makes references to fanboyism and loving games unconditionally, not me.

That said, KotoR is Baldur's Gate. You LOVE IT IN THE BUTT. So... what? Frankly I found the sword-choppy parts of TFU to be the most entertaining and I'm something on a connuiseur of such things, so 'odd broken little game' is a complete falsehood. If they'd called it Attack of the MageNinja it would have sold less because nerds like you are brand-loyal, that's all.

Choppy-choppy can be entertaining, so what? It's still broken because there's NO CHALLENGE.
Mindless entertainment doth not make a good game.

You're right, your assbuddy game and TFU both have fanservice. What does this tell us?

Aside from 'Onasi doesn't like the character design and obsesses over trivia like lightsabre stance', I mean.

is KOTOR sold on the basis of it's fanservice?
Last I checked, IMPLIED LESBIAN ROMANCE LOLOL was not one of it's listed features.

Now, this is a secret so I'll speak quietly and slowly.

TFU may not... and I say MAY NOT ... be entirely compatible with canon. People MIGHT do and say things they would not normally do in the movies or EU. Don't tell anyone.

Then it shouldn't pretend to be some kind of prequel. Is this such a hard concept to understand?

That said your specific examples are retarded. Yoda retreated from the world, and Obi-Wan clearly told Bail where he was since he sent Leia there later. By the time of Luke, the political situation had totally changed and THERE WASN'T A SENATE and BAIL WAS DEAD.

Yoda was on the same damn ship as Bail. In fact they were in the same car together. Bail doesn't even ask him.
And yes, Bail knows where Obi-Wan is. So when looking for a figurehead, he doesn't bother looking for the old general and friend of is. Uhuh.
And by Luke's time, Bail is dead and it's not like his daughter is now in a leadership position attempting to carry out his wishes or anything..

I mean we could list all the stupid plot shit from KotoR, but that's irrelevant to the thread since you already admitted you agree with Ford's statement and are now just being butthurt because he said a bad thing about KotoR.

You know what? Do so. By all means. I acknowledge it's flaws, but if you think it's total shit then go ahead and say why.

[Oskuro]

How do you mean? The perspective and specific mechanics are different, but it's the same long-winded talking and dialogue around item- and stat-based combat. KotoR is more advanced technically but Baldur's Gate is more advanced in a narrative sense.

Oh wait, I'm stupid - you're saying they're not the same because Baldur's Gate is more complex?

To add a bit of background (in case someone didn't know), both games are based off the d20 system (Baldur's Gate from D&D, KotOR from Star Wars d20), so yeah, in essence they are the same game, with different plots (if we disregard the obvious technological difference).

[The Yosemite Bear]

BG is isometric based, Real Time AD&D but has a very interesting story line. Now KOTOR is TPS with a party of 3 active (gee it's Final Star Fantasy Wars), and looks and sounds better because of upgrades in tech since the 1990s. Still it's like Fallout 3 vs Original Fallout, Sorry the original had a better story and ending, the new version looks nicer.

[Joviwan]

To add a bit of background (in case someone didn't know), both games are based off the d20 system (Baldur's Gate from D&D, KotOR from Star Wars d20), so yeah, in essence they are the same game, with different plots (if we disregard the obvious technological difference).

That is inaccurate. Baldur's Gate was based on a bastardized version of AD&D 2nd edition, and KotOR was even more loosely based on D20 starwars.

[Stark]

God Onasi, you're so much fun.

Stringent? No more than you're being for KOTOR.

Explain how. Or is 'uses similar mechanics in a more interesting or advanced way' the same as 'another Sith xyz plot wherein you save the galaxy'?

It's Jedi Knight with added gimmicks.

Man, you have to grow the fuck up. 'Gimmick' is simply a loaded term - is reloading or free-running or depth of field a 'gimmick'? It plays differently to Jedi Knight - using perjorative terms to describe these differences is totally irrelevant and probably dishonest.

Instead it's a contrived betrayal plot. Yay.

Man, you have to grow the fuck up. The whole discussion is about originality and newness vs old and rehashed, right? So a new (but terrrible) plot IS ACTUALLY MORE ORIGINAL than a rehashed plot that may or may not be better. You have TOTALLY lost track of the point (ie that TFU is less bland/more original than KotoR) simply because you don't like it.

Please go ahead and detail the things that happen that are so unlike other Star Wars games then, because all I've heard so far is baseless claims.

Man, you have to grow the fuck up. You're DARTH VADER'S APPRENTICE. That's totally new. You're just a fucking moron fanboy.

I want everyone to realise that Darth Onasi thinks it's a 'baseless claim' to say that TFU has plot elements that do not exist in other SW games.

That's your opinion. Some games have fine plots. But even assuming the stance of "Stark hates all game storylines, therefore they suck" TFU's is daft beyond all hope of salvation.

Wow, so you dismiss my opinion as worthless and subjective while constantly harping on your opinion! Hypocrisy AND dishonesty, the double feature. Oh and poisoning the well, since I've never said anything like you describe.

Then it might as well call itself Angry Dude: Adventures of the Telekinetic Skinhead.
If it calls itself Star Wars, it should at least try not to mess with the continuity of the damn movies too much.

What? You just said you don't care about canonicity and now you say you hate it because it breaks the setting (ps it doesnt')? I even ALREADY made the point that they could have called it something else - just like they could have called Xwing Wing Commander 87 - and it seems you don't understand how licencing and marketing work.

Thanks for providing a definition of apprentice.
Now explain why Vader would train someone from childhood to do things he has never displayed even the slightest capability or interest of doing.

HAHAHAHAAHAHA.

You're such a fucking retard. Seriously. You complain that he does things a certain way (that you don't like) and rhetorically ask why Vader would want you to do that... when he trained you that way. It MIGHT have been a part of his PLAN to have you do these things. Go on, the next step down the road to you're a cretin is to ask why Vader would want to train you at all in secret to etc etc.

Oh for god's sake. You tried to use something I said in jest about Carth against KOTOR and I asked if my random musings are now KOTOR canon.

LOL no, that's the other point re fanservice. You said something about 'in-game canon' or 'internal canon' so let's just let that worthless Onasi point drop.

You're the one who continually makes references to fanboyism and loving games unconditionally, not me.

I guess I might have a higher opinion of you if you could explain the reasoning behind anything instead of helplessly flailing.

Choppy-choppy can be entertaining, so what? It's still broken because there's NO CHALLENGE.
Mindless entertainment doth not make a good game.

Attention, we appear to have moved the goalposts.

is KOTOR sold on the basis of it's fanservice?
Last I checked, IMPLIED LESBIAN ROMANCE LOLOL was not one of it's listed features.

You're right, the fanservice of being a mega jedi who kills the sith is in no way a draw. Being a super evil guy and fucking dudes up never sold a copy of KotoR, because that would mean KotoR was pretty much just TFU with more stats.

Then it shouldn't pretend to be some kind of prequel. Is this such a hard concept to understand?

And WEG shouldn't have pretended to be accurate. So what? Offending your sense of canon (which you sometimes claim you don't care about) isn't relevant to the 'is/is not more original or less bland' argument. I'm amused by how shrill you're getting on what is a total sideshow.

Yoda was on the same damn ship as Bail. In fact they were in the same car together. Bail doesn't even ask him.
And yes, Bail knows where Obi-Wan is. So when looking for a figurehead, he doesn't bother looking for the old general and friend of is. Uhuh.
And by Luke's time, Bail is dead and it's not like his daughter is now in a leadership position attempting to carry out his wishes or anything..

You are totally right and Bail in ROTS would never ever change his attitudes towards anything in the period between the movies - if he didn't haggle high-level political treason negotiations while driving a fast car with no top, when CAN he be expected to do it?

You know what? Do so. By all means. I acknowledge it's flaws, but if you think it's total shit then go ahead and say why.

No. You mght be a dickless fanboy and I might be getting a great laugh out of making you look stupid, but this thread is NOT about KotoR. KotoR was just an example of the stait state of SW game plots in Ford's point.

[Vympel]

As if on cue, an interview with Haden Blackman, a frank discussion about Force Unleashed:-

Link

I think it makes us tremendously prepared to do other games using this technology. The hardest thing with The Force Unleashed is, though I'm happy with the end result, I don't think that we leveraged the three technologies to their fullest extent. The integration between the three of them came online so late, and wasn't bug-free until so late, that the designers had a lot of the levels already built out, and we'd designed a lot of the characters. If we were to do it all over again, with some of the technologies already integrated, I think we would have made some different decisions about level layouts. We would have had more playground elements, and turned the levels into funhouses. And I would have included more fun Achievements. One of my favorite things to do in the game is see how many Stormtroopers I can string together with Force Lightning. There's no reason to do that in the game, and nobody really even knows that you can do it, but Force Lightning channels through characters.

and some George Lucas insight:

The one thing that stuck in my mind, the thing that I never forgot -- what he told us was that the Emperor fundamentally views Vader as broken. He recruited Anakin because he was awesome; he was going to be this really powerful agent of his, or right-hand man to him. When Anakin gets messed up on Mustafar, that basically makes him broken. Useless. Not useless, but ... "broken" was the word that [Lucas] kept coming back to. So we kind of wanted to play with that. So the Evil Ending kind of has Vader broken.

[Stark]

That's quite interesting, given the bland platforming-style levels were what turned me off the game. Still, rushed development = no sympathy.

[Vympel]

Yeah - hopefully the sequel (a no-brainer, it sold millions) will be more polished. (edited post above)

[Vympel]

It's a pretty good interview all round, actually. The part about one of the interviews ragging on the Star Destroyer sequence was amusing.

[quote=Haden Blackman]In the canon ending, you go in to save Kota and you fight the Emperor. And in that ending he seemingly dies, allowing the Rebel Alliance to escape.[/qote]

[Darksider]

In the canon ending, you go in to save Kota and you fight the Emperor. And in that ending he seemingly dies, allowing the Rebel Alliance to escape.[/qote]

This may be off topic, but I don't get where he says that palps "seemingly dies" in the canon ending, given that he's standing over the Apprentice's corpse after the explosion and his robes aren't even singed. He only looks mildly annoyed about the whole ordeal.

[Samuel]

In the canon ending, you go in to save Kota and you fight the Emperor. And in that ending he seemingly dies, allowing the Rebel Alliance to escape.[/qote]

This may be off topic, but I don't get where he says that palps "seemingly dies" in the canon ending, given that he's standing over the Apprentice's corpse after the explosion and his robes aren't even singed. He only looks mildly annoyed about the whole ordeal.

The apprentice. Of course I can't see how he can be alive after everything, but sequels need characters.

[Zac Naloen]

Main thing I like from that interview is that the force powers aren't supposed to be remotely consistent with anything we've seen before, because it's a game stupid.

Also, I hope there is a sequel. Melting doors ala Phantom Menace intrigues me.

Thanks for providing a definition of apprentice.
Now explain why Vader would train someone from childhood to do things he has never displayed even the slightest capability or interest of doing.

Dude, have you actually played the game?

The opening sequence is you, as vader, going postal on a wookie village. The game is internally consistent with it's depiction of force powers. That's all that matters.

[SylasGaunt]

Dude, have you actually played the game?

The opening sequence is you, as vader, going postal on a wookie village. The game is internally consistent with it's depiction of force powers. That's all that matters.

In fact pretty much all the Jedi in the game had amped up abilities as I recall.