UFC 2009 Undisputed (the demo)

[weemadando]

I must say that they have really made an awesomely good sports sim. Not a fighting game, but a sports sim. Or a fighting sim if you will.

It's controls are fucking deep (20 minute tutorial just to learn the basics) and there is so much complexity to it that I can actually say that it's the best depiction of it you can probably get with the current tech and controllers.

I don't know how much of it I've played (probably about 30-40 fights) and I still find myself getting too enthused. The presentation is slick and the commentary is probably the best that I've heard, with Rogan and Goldberg going suitably apeshit when there are flash KOs or big events. And even with doing so many damn fights with only the 2 fighters, it's still not really old and there hasn't been much of a formula to it (aside from: here is fighter intro/descriptor at the start of a round). It's also really well timed and they'll talk over each other and correct each other or themselves as they would at a real event.

The fighters look great, Shogun especially so - but they're instantly recognisable and the movements and styles are there too.

Get the demo and see what you think. If you want a really deep fighting sim, then here you go.

[aerius]

I spent some time playing the demo at my friend's place over the weekend, it took me a couple hours just to get a hang of using the controls and anything more than a 2 move combo is still mostly beyond me. Rogan & Goldie are pretty good but I think they need to do a bit more commentary on the action instead of filling in on the backstory of the fighters. I was playing Shogun and nailing Chuck with something like 10 leg kicks in a row and they're going on about Chuck's takedown defence and how he was the first guy to use wrestling in reverse to avoid getting taken down. Thanks guys, but how about Chuck limping around the ring because I kicked his leg out, can I have some commentary on that?

Other than that I don't have any complaints, it was still damn fun even though I don't play video games and can barely use the controllers.

[weemadando]

A few downsides:

Stoppages take forever - it seems you can only get a GnP stoppage from Mount, Half or Full Guard. I had Chuck in a body triangle and was unloading on his head for fully 4 minutes and Yamasaki did nothing.

No liver shot KOs - I tried it out and spent 3 rounds just setting up liver shots. I knocked the opponent down and put him in "Stunned mode" with every shot from round 2 onwards, but again, the ref didn't end the fight and the bastard kept getting up.

Submissions - Why can't I do them? I try, but no matter how fresh I am and how fucked my opponent is they always escape. Maybe I need to play as Demian Maia.

[Chardok]

Do they have "Create a fighter" mode? I'm a whore for those. I like to invest some time and effort in my dude and customize him to my style. (Like in Fight night, for example, I favor a Rocky Marciano Style boxer that just overwhelms my opponent with sheer volume of punches (Agility + Conditioning))

[weemadando]

They do apparently, but it's yet to be previewed. I am also a whore for these. I wonder if the UFC game will have you start out as a contestant on TUF? What's the button to trash shit and act like a redneck retard?

[TheFeniX]

Stoppages take forever - it seems you can only get a GnP stoppage from Mount, Half or Full Guard. I had Chuck in a body triangle and was unloading on his head for fully 4 minutes and Yamasaki did nothing.

What position were you in? Sitting on your butt behind him or did you somehow end up on top with hooks in? If you were on top and he's flattened out, it's usually a couple seconds before he's either KTFO or the ref stops it. Maybe Mario was channeling a bit of Mazagatti that night.

No liver shot KOs - I tried it out and spent 3 rounds just setting up liver shots. I knocked the opponent down and put him in "Stunned mode" with every shot from round 2 onwards, but again, the ref didn't end the fight and the bastard kept getting up.

Likely game balance, but this is almost nitpicking. At that point, you could easily finish him of with punches while he's stunned.

Submissions - Why can't I do them? I try, but no matter how fresh I am and how fucked my opponent is they always escape. Maybe I need to play as Demian Maia.

I assume you took the tutorial and are either mashing buttons or rotating the thumb stick.

I've had this same issue on everything but the easiest (default) difficulty. It probably has to do with Chuck having great submission defense, but also having shit submissions. On advanced difficulty, I have pulled of exactly one submission (a guillotine on a battered chuck). Chuck does seem to be susceptible to knee-bars though. I had to try three times to get a rear-naked on Rua, and finally got it (with 15 seconds left in the 3rd round no less).

I enjoy the demo a lot. I'll load it up and just work on my game for the future. The stand-up does seem to favor the guy who likes to press the offense. All the counters do is either clinch or take-down the opponent. Other counters have to be performed manually like slipping a right hook from Rua by throwing an overhand right. It's decent enough.

The ground-game can be a bit annoying. At least grapple blocking from the top is real easy. Just hold <-R whenever you aren't punching and you can stay in position all day. I was always trying to flick the R stick and getting my ass swept non-stop.

The Thai clinch is mean, but if you can somehow manage to get Rua into a "boxers clinch" he has the option to pull a flying armbar. I am dying to try this, but it seems that in order to get there, you have to pull a Thai clinch and have chuck half-way break out of it or he has to initiate the boxer's clinch (which he never does).

[weemadando]

I will definitely be getting the full game.

The submission stuff I hope they balance a bit, because if I've been working Chuck's legs and body for 2 rounds, and have him on the ground with back control and body triangle, then I should be able to slip on a choke without too many issues. But like I said, I'll wait to see how some actual BJJ fighters are in it before I complain too much about that.

As for stoppages - as I said, it seems that you can't finish from certain positions no matter how brutal of a beating you are delivering. In order to get the ref to stop it you actually have to go to mount or a guard and continue your pummelling.

[aerius]

A few downsides:

Stoppages take forever - it seems you can only get a GnP stoppage from Mount, Half or Full Guard. I had Chuck in a body triangle and was unloading on his head for fully 4 minutes and Yamasaki did nothing.

Interesting. The only ground & pound I managed to get was when I scored a knockdown then jumped to mount and wailed away.

No liver shot KOs - I tried it out and spent 3 rounds just setting up liver shots. I knocked the opponent down and put him in "Stunned mode" with every shot from round 2 onwards, but again, the ref didn't end the fight and the bastard kept getting up.

I noticed that one too, I was playing as Shogun and had Chuck in the clinch where I blasted him with knees until he dropped, but he always gets back up. You'll probably have to use Bas Rutten to get the liver shot KO.

[weemadando]

A few downsides:

Stoppages take forever - it seems you can only get a GnP stoppage from Mount, Half or Full Guard. I had Chuck in a body triangle and was unloading on his head for fully 4 minutes and Yamasaki did nothing.

Interesting. The only ground & pound I managed to get was when I scored a knockdown then jumped to mount and wailed away.

No liver shot KOs - I tried it out and spent 3 rounds just setting up liver shots. I knocked the opponent down and put him in "Stunned mode" with every shot from round 2 onwards, but again, the ref didn't end the fight and the bastard kept getting up.

I noticed that one too, I was playing as Shogun and had Chuck in the clinch where I blasted him with knees until he dropped, but he always gets back up. You'll probably have to use Bas Rutten to get the liver shot KO.

More experimentation has revealed the following:

1) I still can't do fucking submissions - what technique are people using to apply them? Mashing buttons or twirling the stick? What moves have you had success with and wiht what character?

2) "Stuns" from slams. Just found this one out - if the guy is ready to go, you can do the wrestlers "big slams" to put them on their back and stun them (if you're luck) and then just GnP to victory and beyond.

3) I hope Bruce Buffer is in there as a secret character. Every single one of his moves should be a "spinning back X".

[TheFeniX]

1) I still can't do fucking submissions - what technique are people using to apply them? Mashing buttons or twirling the stick? What moves have you had success with and wiht what character?

What difficulty are you playing on?

I twirl the stick for the most part, but sometimes I find myself rotating the stick and smashing buttons like a madman.

With Liddell I've only pulled off a guilliotine. I was button mashing at the time. I got this on beginner when I was just dicking around.

As Rua, I've submitting chuck with a kneebar from half-guard, a rear-naked choke, and a triangle choke. Only one of them was done the first try (the triangle). I pulled guard on Liddell and caught him when he threw a punch. I would assume those submissions are easier to get.

I have seemed to have better luck mashing buttons with both thumbs (XB with left, YA with right).

That said, submissions are fucking hard to pull off against even the beginner difficulty. This makes me seriously doubt being able to pull a submission artist off in career. I'll likely focus on take-down defense and striking.... which sucks.

[weemadando]

I haven't switched difficulty, so it must be on standard. And I really wanted to have a submission artist for the career mode, but if you can't reliably do it, then there's no fucking point.

[TheFeniX]

I'm bringing this one back to clarify a few things I've figured out. All of my testing has been done with Liddell because, if there's any rhyme or rhythm to the game, he should be harder to pull off submissions with.

I haven't switched difficulty, so it must be on standard. And I really wanted to have a submission artist for the career mode, but if you can't reliably do it, then there's no fucking point.

I was basically doing submissions "wrong." Last night, I was able to score 5 submissions in a row on Rua as Liddell with a little setup. This was on "experienced" difficulty. I have plans to try it on "Advanced" when I have time, but I'm not touching "expert" again after all the bullshit last time.

Chuck has a few signature moves that are pretty badass. One is when you're on top in full guard and your opponent is controlling your posture with his hands. On the 360 version (is there a PS3 version?), hold LB and push up on RS and do a quarter turn right. This will pick them up and slam them back down. This has a high chance to stun and you end up in a standing open guard. If the stun goes off, drop down for a kneebar. Hammer X and Y with your left thumb and A and B with your right thumb. Just make sure you're hitting all four buttons as fast as you can. This has worked every time for me. You can also clinch and hold LB and <-R to slam him for a good amount of damage and a high possibility of stun. Watch out because he will block this attempt and can sometimes counter and put you on your ass. If you really want the submission and you're on your back, get setup for a submission counter.

Basically, rotating the right thumbstick does jack shit unless you're blocking a submission attempt and want to pass while doing so. I do still use it to block take-downs though.

I also managed to kimura Rua with ease after letting him sweep me. I was on my back with Rua in my full guard. When he threw a punch, I countered with a submission and tapped him in no time by hammering ABXY. I assume I got this due to the punishment he had taken earlier combined with how much stamina he lost sweeping me (I was in mount when he swept, blocked it twice, he got me on the third).

Unfortunately, the tutorial doesn't explain just how much more effective the button mashing is when attempting submissions. I'd be lucky to get 1/10 with rotating the right thumbstick. By wearing Rua down a bit, then attempting submissions I'm hitting about 50/50. If he's "stunned" when I start the submission, it hasn't missed once.

[weemadando]

Awesome. I'll give that a shot tonight.

I'll be keen to see just how our various contenders stack up in the full version of the game.

Do we want to call a weight div for an SDnet grand prix featuring existing fighters?

[weemadando]

OK - MetaCritic is slowly updating and though we're still in the realm of "hack publications" at the moment, it's polling an impressive 87. Which is about 15-20 higher than I would have anticipated it getting.

[TheFeniX]

Lameinformer (yea, it's a terrible pun, fuck it) gave it an 8, giving it high praise for the controls, collision detection, and graphics. The only mark against it was "it has a high learning curve." So, basically in the world of Gameinformer reviewers, a game not made for a 3 year old losses two points off the top.

Then again, this is the same group of assholes who bashed GTA4 for it's overly long cutscenes, difficult gunplay due to the controls, and strange driving physics (three major portions that encompass the entire fucking game) and still gave it a 10. Jackasses. I can't believe I'm actually waiting for a free subscription to expire.

Anyways, I'll be picking the game up after work today. They did have a midnight release, but that's not really my style.