Fun With: Genetic Sequencing

[Connor MacLeod]

What if your 'better equipment' can include combat exoskeletons capable of pulling thirty gees in straight line acceleration?

Uh, at 30 gees you're going to be pulling near-supersonic velocities. You'll need some sort of antigrav system even if you use thrusters, and if you have antigrav you likely have some sort of inertial compensation. Or just a reactionless drive.

What if you can produce a couple of gigawatts with a backpack generator but the amount of heat generated cannot be radiated away fast enough for human beings to survive?

If you can't shield against it by some reason, you probably DON'T use it anywhere exposed to humans. I can't think of any reason you would subject yourself to such a condition - it either is going to fuck with the enviroment, burn the person, or possibly runthe risk of radiation damage.

What if penetrating whatever material you use for armour is extremely difficult for the fragile human inside takes a fraction of the effort to kill through momentum transfer?

Odds are such weapons are going to be in the anti-tank variety by modern terms. I don't see what the big deal is, since few things not of the "insane" variety could be expected to withstand that level of abuse plausibly.

Admittedly at this point you probably have the technology to upload a soldier's brain straight into some sort of cybernetic kill-body, but but better equipment can't totally do away with the inherent limitations of a human body.

Depends on how you fight and equip your troops.

[Ford Prefect]

Connor, I was simply making a series of examples about the limitations of the human body. They're not supposed to be technically feasible, just thought experiments. It wouldn't be the first time science fiction has come up with bullshit excuses for something.

[rhoenix]

What if your 'better equipment' can include combat exoskeletons capable of pulling thirty gees in straight line acceleration?

Uh, at 30 gees you're going to be pulling near-supersonic velocities. You'll need some sort of antigrav system even if you use thrusters, and if you have antigrav you likely have some sort of inertial compensation. Or just a reactionless drive.

On this count specifically - I'm thinking the standard use for these types of soldiers in exo-armor would be using a fusion thruster for straight-line acceleration, as well as being able to flip it around to the front to slow down before turning it off, of course getting as a bonus the predictable mayhem a powerful fusion torch would cause.

[TheLostVikings]

Hmm, how about taking a note from bird air sacs and make the lungs unidirectional instead of tidal, and while you're at it make the left/right separate to further protect against damage. So air would enter the left nostril, go down into the left side air sacs, exit after having been used, return to the mouth, and finally exits trough a tube that passes underneath the tongue and ends just behind the teeth (like in anacondas). Duplicate on the right side.

This way you can have a much faster and more efficient system, as you don't have to wait for the "used" air to exit the system before taking a new breath, instead keeping a steady stream of air going trough. Enabling sustained operation at high altitudes and other environments that have too low oxygen density for Homo sapiens MK I to function. Have your fighting uniform/exosuit include some nostril tubes (like you have in hospitals) for direct oxygen injection to really get things going.

As an added bonus you don't have to worry about supersoldiers accidentally dying from chocking on a chicken bone anymore either, as the gastrointestinal tract is now almost completely separate from the airways (aside from the very front of the mouth). And if one lung gets perforated with holes and filled with blood the one on the other side will be (mostly) unaffected, increasing redundancy (a 2nd hearth in both sides of the torso might come in handy for the same reason).

The fact that they are much more efficient would allow your soldier caste to support a much higher metabolism compared to a human of equivalent mass, quite literally "overclocking" them in all respects. This would mean your supersoldiers can "think faster", without having to directly meddle in the brain itself (and thus would probably be an easier way to achieve the same result). It would probably be a good idea to make them go into torpor when off duty to lower their metabolism back down to a level not burning trough energy as fast. (or you would end up being defeated by your food budget instead of your enemy...)

If you are looking for a plausible way to make them stronger, it's worth noting that trough only a slight mutation in a single gene caused our muscles to become much weaker. The individual muscle fibers in monkeys are literally 10 times as strong as ours. In addition their tendons are attached to the skeleton further away from the joints to give them improved leverage.

And finally their bones are not as smooth as ours, because otherwise their tendons wouldn't get enough grip to keep from being ripped off when exerting themselves. Which means adding the previous two modifications without also adding this one could lead to... rather disastrous side effects.

[rhoenix]

Thank you to all who've replied with ideas, as now I've several more directions in which to research for this.

Also, I just got the book Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku, and I pronounce it awesome.

[dworkin]

As for controlling your genetic supermen I suggest re-wiring those bits of the brain identified with religious experience. Your minions could then be controlled by a religion they actually experience. Pity the poor SOB who's a mutant in that respect...

[avatarxprime]

While true, I'm going for shades of the Space Marine from Warhammer 40k archetype, in that their organs and even genetic structure have all been "upgraded"; I'm certainly not going to copy the idea wholesale, but that was the inspiration for this, if that helps. They're not expected (or even designed) to die of old age; such things would be expected by those who design this program to be an "anomaly."

How far into the Space Marine thing do you want to go? If you're cool with bio-engineered glands being surgically implanted into your soldiers you can get reversible supermen like you brought up in the OP. Have a bio-engineered gland that is capable of secreting various compounds that boost the human body. A myostatin blocker to result in superhuman muscle build-up, Resveratrol for long life, leptin for dealing with fat buildup/enhancing metabolism, etc... So long as the gland(s) are in the body the person can be quite superhuman, the second you take them out though they start going back to human.

[harbringer]

I'm not sure if this helps medical texts I suspect will be more useful than I :

The big problem with G-force is blood flow so altering the blood vessels and circulatory system will help. A different blood makeup to deal with biological warfare "the bends" and different atmospheric gases would fit, Your nose is effectively a way to deal with cold air entering the body, true not super cold but cold ... if you can somehow have the air heated enough for the body to be able to deal with that would help. Some sort of filter in the trachea or some such to filter out undesirable stuff and a way to bypass the kidneys and excrete it would be needed. An ability to enter hibernation would be useful as would a way to be able to tune the adrenaline response along with the ability to produce some sort of nuro-blockers to reduce pain response and an enhanced method of clotting. A enhanced melanin layer with maybe some sort of metallic component to reduce damage from uv and radiation.

Cybernetics/equipment would be a much better way to do most of this but you wanted what people thought about biological alternatives.

[Darmalus]

An idea for why such decisions might be made, even with historical examples of why it is a bad idea. If your citizens of this civilization are already starting to separate into separate species, then making a military species might not seem a big leap at all. The Luna and Mars colonists all got low-g adaptations, the permanent spacers got modifications that let them stand exposure to vacuum and hard radiation for a little while, the guys who live on Hoth can walk naked in sub-zero temperatures indefinitely, the long term residents of Dune think that 100F is a cool day, and they never lose body moisture, and so on.

Maybe a military bureaucrat sees colonists with bullet proof skin, maybe because their world has constant windstorms and flying sand/gravel is a real danger, and suddenly has a brain storm to combine all these advantages into a single go anywhere soldier model. A little spin and dishonest salesmanship later, and you have a separate military species that seemed like a good idea at the meeting.

[TheLostVikings]

Maybe a military bureaucrat sees colonists with bullet proof skin, maybe because their world has constant windstorms and flying sand/gravel is a real danger, and suddenly has a brain storm to combine all these advantages into a single go anywhere soldier model. A little spin and dishonest salesmanship later, and you have a separate military species that seemed like a good idea at the meeting.

Following the law of unintended consequences, it's worth noting that if you had skin with enough tensile strength to be bulletproof, your spacesuit could consist of as little as a pressurized helmet and a set of really tight boxers (add a bra for the female version). Essentially a mostly biological version of nasa proposed skinsuit (sic) concept.

So people doing EVA work in hard vacuum would end up looking more like scuba divers than astronauts.

[rhoenix]

Some interesting responses - thank you for them.

As for controlling your genetic supermen I suggest re-wiring those bits of the brain identified with religious experience. Your minions could then be controlled by a religion they actually experience. Pity the poor SOB who's a mutant in that respect...

That was a given for this idea, and for the reason you gave. At least for the first generation or so...

How far into the Space Marine thing do you want to go? If you're cool with bio-engineered glands being surgically implanted into your soldiers you can get reversible supermen like you brought up in the OP. Have a bio-engineered gland that is capable of secreting various compounds that boost the human body. A myostatin blocker to result in superhuman muscle build-up, Resveratrol for long life, leptin for dealing with fat buildup/enhancing metabolism, etc... So long as the gland(s) are in the body the person can be quite superhuman, the second you take them out though they start going back to human.

This was essentially what I was looking for as a template. Essentially, the military will evolve from an "augmented, but reversable" approach, to a "born and die as a soldier," for reasons given below. The Warhammer 40k reading I've done online about the implants in question mostly make sense, though some of them I'm not sure about.

Would another idea, as a defense against beam weapons (as a seemingly natural evolution, since most of their skin would be resistant to slugthrowers), be a sort of ablative skin? Dead skin accumulates naturally, but somehow making sure it created a layer that would dissipate and vaporize upon contact with a beam weapon should work. Any thoughts?

An idea for why such decisions might be made, even with historical examples of why it is a bad idea. If your citizens of this civilization are already starting to separate into separate species, then making a military species might not seem a big leap at all. The Luna and Mars colonists all got low-g adaptations, the permanent spacers got modifications that let them stand exposure to vacuum and hard radiation for a little while, the guys who live on Hoth can walk naked in sub-zero temperatures indefinitely, the long term residents of Dune think that 100F is a cool day, and they never lose body moisture, and so on.

Essentially, this will be my approach. The human species at this time, still in a sort of Golden Age of discovery, decides to make "adapted humans" for life on other planets, so they wouldn't need environmental suits. After having done this sort of work for a while, with several long-term thriving new "species descendant" of human, it would seem to be a natural extension to turn this approach at some point to war, and its possibilities. After which...things go downhill.

[Akhlut]

A few things about this: firstly, there are no discrete genes for things like "retinal pigments for detecting infrared light" or the like; you'll need to have some immense amounts of R&D to find out when and where to put large sequences of DNA into embryoes in order to make your genetically modified badasses. Further, expect high attrition, initially, as your scientists struggle to ensure that the developing embryoes correctly develop with their new genomes (for instance, that their circulatory system correctly interacts with their new lungs). Further, you might need to radically alter everything for new atmospheres, so that all the enzymes in the body will work.

Secondly, you'd be hardpressed to introduce new genomes to already grown people. Those would require engineered retroviruses that could correctly insert new genes into specific places on a chromosome and then activated in order for new traits to become apparent (plus, these people would then have to eat a lot of food for these new genes' products.

[rhoenix]

A few things about this: firstly, there are no discrete genes for things like "retinal pigments for detecting infrared light" or the like; you'll need to have some immense amounts of R&D to find out when and where to put large sequences of DNA into embryoes in order to make your genetically modified badasses. Further, expect high attrition, initially, as your scientists struggle to ensure that the developing embryoes correctly develop with their new genomes (for instance, that their circulatory system correctly interacts with their new lungs). Further, you might need to radically alter everything for new atmospheres, so that all the enzymes in the body will work.

This sort of thing will be done in stages, and though some of the people involved will be thinking "supa-spacemarines!" as they work on adapting the human body for other environments, most won't. First would be adaptation to an environment that would be possible to survive with assistance, but it would be greatly expensive and require a strong supply train (as an example).

After that, more adaptation for increasingly different environments, leading to a lull in development; perhaps the dawning of another golden age of discovery as a result of all this experimentation. As a result of that will be the idea to make a "military species," and things go predictably awry.

Secondly, you'd be hardpressed to introduce new genomes to already grown people. Those would require engineered retroviruses that could correctly insert new genes into specific places on a chromosome and then activated in order for new traits to become apparent (plus, these people would then have to eat a lot of food for these new genes' products.

Right, and quite likely need lengthy recovery times while their bodies adjust from their old "norms" to the new "norms," I would imagine. I'm no bio-engineer, but I imagine such changes would certainly not take hold instantly, and would certainly require an adjustment period of sorts.