Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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sketerpot
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Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

Post by sketerpot »

Obama gave a very nice speech to the National Academy of Sciences, with a lot of big news in it. Here's the audio, as an mp3 and Here's a transcript for people who don't feel like listening to a half-hour speech. Some highlights, emphasis mine:
The freakin' president wrote:Today, of course, we face more complex challenges than we have ever faced before: a medical system that holds the promise of unlocking new cures and treatments -- attached to a health care system that holds the potential for bankruptcy to families and businesses; a system of energy that powers our economy, but simultaneously endangers our planet; threats to our security that seek to exploit the very interconnectedness and openness so essential to our prosperity; and challenges in a global marketplace which links the derivative trader on Wall Street to the homeowner on Main Street, the office worker in America to the factory worker in China -- a marketplace in which we all share in opportunity, but also in crisis.

At such a difficult moment, there are those who say we cannot afford to invest in science, that support for research is somehow a luxury at moments defined by necessities. I fundamentally disagree. Science is more essential for our prosperity, our security, our health, our environment, and our quality of life than it has ever been before.
Sure talks pretty, doesn't he? Let's get down to dollars:
Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and with the support of Congress, my administration is already providing the largest single boost to investment in basic research in American history. That's already happened.
Some examples of what this act does:

National Science Foundation: gets $3 billion, almost a 50% increase in their budget.
Dept. of Energy: $2 billion
NASA: $1 billion
Miscellaneous university research labs: $1.6 billion

Of course, if you want some real money from that bill, the place to be is in smart electrical grids, for which the bill allocated a whopping $11 billion. I'm conflicted about this. On the one hand, smart grids have some really good, useful ideas that could make electrical distribution and generation more efficient and reliable. On the other hand, they remind me of mortgage-backed securities: the smartness of the complex grid could mask the risk of intermittent forms of power (most of the time) and give people the mistaken perception that we don't need as much generating capacity since we can (usually, probabilistically) get by with less when there's a smart grid. In other words, I worry that a smart grid will make failures less frequent, but perhaps more severe. I may well be off base about this.
The fact is an investigation into a particular physical, chemical, or biological process might not pay off for a year, or a decade, or at all. And when it does, the rewards are often broadly shared, enjoyed by those who bore its costs but also by those who did not.

And that's why the private sector generally under-invests in basic science, and why the public sector must invest in this kind of research -- because while the risks may be large, so are the rewards for our economy and our society.

No one can predict what new applications will be born of basic research: new treatments in our hospitals, or new sources of efficient energy; new building materials; new kinds of crops more resistant to heat and to drought.

It was basic research in the photoelectric field -- in the photoelectric effect that would one day lead to solar panels. It was basic research in physics that would eventually produce the CAT scan. The calculations of today's GPS satellites are based on the equations that Einstein put to paper more than a century ago.
Truly, this guy is a socialist who will destroy America. Doesn't he believe in the long-term wisdom of a bunch of businessmen trying to screw each other for short-term gain? Has he no faith in the free market?
In addition to the investments in the Recovery Act, the budget I've proposed -- and versions have now passed both the House and the Senate -- builds on the historic investments in research contained in the recovery plan.

So we double the budget of key agencies, including the National Science Foundation, a primary source of funding for academic research; and the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which supports a wide range of pursuits from improving health information technology to measuring carbon pollution, from -- from testing "smart grid" designs to developing advanced manufacturing processes.

And my budget doubles funding for the Department of Energy's Office of Science, which builds and operates accelerators, colliders, supercomputers, high-energy light sources, and facilities for making nano-materials -- because we know that a nation's potential for scientific discovery is defined by the tools that it makes available to its researchers.
This definitely looks nicer than what they got in the stimulus bill. It's good news that this stuff got past the House and Senate once, but remember that they'll be scrapping over the budget for a while yet -- the president doesn't sign it until around September.
And today, I'm also announcing that for the first time, we are funding an initiative -- recommended by this organization -- called the Advanced Research Projects Agency for Energy, or ARPA-E.

This is based, not surprisingly, on DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which was created during the Eisenhower administration in response to Sputnik. It has been charged throughout its history with conducting high-risk, high-reward research. And the precursor to the Internet, known as ARPANET, stealth technology, the Global Positioning System all owe a debt to the work of DARPA.

So ARPA-E seeks to do the same kind of high-risk, high-reward research. My administration will pursue, as well, comprehensive legislation to place a market-based cap on carbon emissions. We will make renewable energy the profitable kind of energy. We will put in place the resources so that scientists can focus on this critical area. And I am confident that we will find a wellspring of creativity just waiting to be tapped by researchers in this room and entrepreneurs across our country. We can solve this problem.
Guess who was pimping this idea back in 2006? Steven Chu was, of course! Technically, Congress passed this back in 2007. Chu is pushing for it to be up and running in 6 months, while others are estimating that it'll take about a year.
And I'm challenging states to dramatically improve achievement in math and science by raising standards, modernizing science labs, upgrading curriculum, and forging partnerships to improve the use of science and technology in our classrooms. (Applause.) I'm challenging states, as well, to enhance teacher preparation and training, and to attract new and qualified math and science teachers to better engage students and reinvigorate those subjects in our schools.

And in this endeavor, we will work to support inventive approaches. Let's create systems that retain and reward effective teachers, and let's create new pathways for experienced professionals to go into the classroom. There are, right now, chemists who could teach chemistry, physicists who could teach physics, statisticians who could teach mathematics. But we need to create a way to bring the expertise and the enthusiasm of these folks –- folks like you –- into the classroom.
Wow, this is going to piss off the teachers' unions.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Problem is, those chemists/physicists/statisticians aren't going to take the pay cut they'd have to take in order to teach...unless pay increased dramatically. In which case, the teacher's unions would love it.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Slacker wrote:Problem is, those chemists/physicists/statisticians aren't going to take the pay cut they'd have to take in order to teach...unless pay increased dramatically. In which case, the teacher's unions would love it.
There's also the problem that a good deal of these scientists might be great in their field, but terrible at teaching. So putting a professional in a teaching position isn't going to help much if they aren't good at communicating the material.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

Post by Uraniun235 »

I don't know what the trend is like nationwide, but seriously the impression I get from the school district I work at is that a lot of kids are arriving at the high school already way behind in reading, writing and math. Hey, guess what skills are pretty critical to learning science? I mean, is there really a shortage of people who are qualified to teach math and science at high schools? Besides, it's pretty hard to get high achievement in physics when you're still struggling with algebra.

(Also, on a more morbid note, it's not as if schools are going to be able to hire more teachers in the near future - there's going to be a lot of layoffs in the coming years.)


Anyway, that's my local view. Maybe it's completely different at the national level.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Uraniun235 wrote:I don't know what the trend is like nationwide, but seriously the impression I get from the school district I work at is that a lot of kids are arriving at the high school already way behind in reading, writing and math. Hey, guess what skills are pretty critical to learning science? I mean, is there really a shortage of people who are qualified to teach math and science at high schools? Besides, it's pretty hard to get high achievement in physics when you're still struggling with algebra.

(Also, on a more morbid note, it's not as if schools are going to be able to hire more teachers in the near future - there's going to be a lot of layoffs in the coming years.)


Anyway, that's my local view. Maybe it's completely different at the national level.
A good example can often be found in the University system. I have a professor now, she works on theoretical quantum physics, and is one of the best in her field, right on the cutting edge of research into things like the structure of atoms, the existence (or lack thereof) of theoretical particles, and other things. But she can't teach at all. It'd be great if we were learning about theoretical quantum mechanics, but there are many people I would much rather have teaching the physics of electro-magnetism. So... yes, I can see this being a problem.

As far as the speech in general, all I can say is that this will be a bad idea. It's hard enough for researchers to get a grant... I can see in the future someone's grant being rejected because they took the grant and handed it over to their new research lab to make those government employees earn their pay.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Many states already have a program for professionals to enter the teaching field without going back to school for a certificate--it's called Alternate Route to Certification. They're designed for people with math/science skills to get a provisional certificate good for some number of years, while they teach at a full salary and get tuition in a certification program reimbursed by the district.

Here's the problem:
1) There's still a lot of bullshit hurdles and red tape (most of which have nothing to do with the unions) which turn people off

2) There aren't a lot of chemists and mathematicians willing to take a pay cut to put up with the epic loads of horseshit that come with being a public school teacher.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Meh, I've come to learn that you don't always get a gen ed teacher, it is up to you the student to either filter or adjust your education. It is YOUR education after all.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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And how is having a shitty teacher worse than having a teacher who knows how to teach but doesn't know shit about the subject (or even worse, is very badly misinformed about the subject)? Having experienced both, I prefer the former. I find it more comforting to think that what I hear might actually be correct, instead of being all sweet and prettily presented and completely wrong.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Speaking of the current number thrown about by Obama is 3% of GDP to be spent on sciences or roughly 240 Billion a year or about a 6x increase over current funding efforts at roughly 38 billion a year if you count everything except private investment.

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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Mr Bean wrote:Speaking of the current number thrown about by Obama is 3% of GDP to be spent on sciences or roughly 240 Billion a year or about a 6x increase over current funding efforts at roughly 38 billion a year if you count everything except private investment.
US funding is presently ~2.66% GDP.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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General Zod wrote: There's also the problem that a good deal of these scientists might be great in their field, but terrible at teaching. So putting a professional in a teaching position isn't going to help much if they aren't good at communicating the material.
A very good point...I've had some absolutely brilliant people absolutely flub what they were trying to teach me on a university level.

The real rub is we need to encourage and develop K-8 teachers, set a firm foundation for education. High Schools aren't really bad off so much as they're trying to build bricks without straw, I see it at my job every day.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

One of the problems, at least at my university, is they overload you with education courses nd don't give you a consistent enough background depth in your content major. I have perhaps 2 + ed courses for every history course, but the ed courses are often repetitive, while the history courses are mostly surveys and unconnected content. That's a problem, as I need to rely on private study instead of actual material taught.

There is too much focus on the education classes. Some of them are useful, but not that many to the detriment of the content. Much of the history I learned had nothing to do with anything I would ever use to teach, so it's wasted. One of the history books we had was for the 50s-60s, so I don't think they really care that much about making it up-to-date, either.

At least with the math and science majors here, they give them far better content, so they are more prepared to teach it.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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I actually got my bachelor's in history and now I'm getting my master's in education mostly to avoid that problem. Schools are actually aware of it and they'd prefer to hire someone with my degree progress as a result. (In New York, you've got to have your master's to get a perm. certification)
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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phongn wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Speaking of the current number thrown about by Obama is 3% of GDP to be spent on sciences or roughly 240 Billion a year or about a 6x increase over current funding efforts at roughly 38 billion a year if you count everything except private investment.
US funding is presently ~2.66% GDP.
Where-in? The only solid figures I find are 38 billion dedicated to Research grants and research support?
Explain this sir because our figures are not matching.

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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Interesting relevant article: http://www.nber.org/papers/w6532
Abstract wrote:Conventional wisdom holds that the social rate of return to R&D significantly exceeds the private rate of return and, therefore, R&D should be subsidized. In the U.S., the government has directly funded a large fraction of total R&D spending. This paper shows that there is a serious problem with such government efforts to increase inventive activity. The majority of R&D spending is actually just salary payments for R&D workers. Their labor supply, however, is quite inelastic so when the government funds R&D, a significant fraction of the increased spending goes directly into higher wages. Using CPS data on wages of scientific personnel, this paper shows that government R&D spending raises wages significantly, particularly for scientists related to defense such as physicists and aeronautical engineers. Because of the higher wages, conventional estimates of the effectiveness of R&D policy may be 30 to 50% too high. The results also imply that by altering the wages of scientists and engineers even for firms not receiving federal support, government funding directly crowds out private inventive activity.
What do y'all think?
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Mr Bean wrote:
phongn wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Speaking of the current number thrown about by Obama is 3% of GDP to be spent on sciences or roughly 240 Billion a year or about a 6x increase over current funding efforts at roughly 38 billion a year if you count everything except private investment.
US funding is presently ~2.66% GDP.
Where-in? The only solid figures I find are 38 billion dedicated to Research grants and research support?
Explain this sir because our figures are not matching.
You excluded private investment dollars, which is absurd, since Obama was clearly referring to total spending, not just government spending. My data originally was from various news sources (CSM, AP, Reuters) but I now have more accurate numbers available. You can find the NSF's data here.
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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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phongn wrote: You excluded private investment dollars, which is absurd, since Obama was clearly referring to total spending, not just government spending. My data originally was from various news sources (CSM, AP, Reuters) but I now have more accurate numbers available. You can find the NSF's data here.
I did cut out private funding because when I think "sciences" I think the hard sciences, the basic lets investigate the universe and discover how reality ticks style research which thanks it IBM's and other cutbacks is almost non-existent in the private sector (It's not economically viable)

However cutting out private funding as a function of GDP would be were it seem's my math went so @#$#$^ up. Thank you for correcting me phongn.

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Re: Obama: we must dramatically increase science funding

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Surlethe wrote:Interesting relevant article: http://www.nber.org/papers/w6532
Abstract wrote:Conventional wisdom holds that the social rate of return to R&D significantly exceeds the private rate of return and, therefore, R&D should be subsidized. In the U.S., the government has directly funded a large fraction of total R&D spending. This paper shows that there is a serious problem with such government efforts to increase inventive activity. The majority of R&D spending is actually just salary payments for R&D workers. Their labor supply, however, is quite inelastic so when the government funds R&D, a significant fraction of the increased spending goes directly into higher wages. Using CPS data on wages of scientific personnel, this paper shows that government R&D spending raises wages significantly, particularly for scientists related to defense such as physicists and aeronautical engineers. Because of the higher wages, conventional estimates of the effectiveness of R&D policy may be 30 to 50% too high. The results also imply that by altering the wages of scientists and engineers even for firms not receiving federal support, government funding directly crowds out private inventive activity.
What do y'all think?
First, if we have more funding available for R&D, then we should make it easier for people to get that funding without jumping through so many hoops. Second, the labor supply would be more elastic if we made it easier for qualified foreigners to come work here.
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