Rebuilding the Republican party! (rightwing echo chamber)

[Crossroads Inc.]

Im not sure if this counts as news or may be shipped off to Off-topic, but I'm starting it here for now.

Basically this started with a long discussing with my Partner about just how screwed the republican party is. My parter was less pessimistic then I on their chances and thought somewhere out there someone must have got the message, surely SOMEONE must know what it takes to save the GOP from complete irrelevance. We scoured the interweb for a while and finally found something I thought was promising. Rebuild The Party

It sounded good, it sounded like someone was working on something that might be connected to reality. Sadly, this was not to be... Ive since read through many of the forums and letters and so far it sounds to be just another echochamber, perhaps not as nutty as those of Rush or O'Riley, but, well, here is a sample from one topic.

GOP registrations are up 12%
GOP fundraising has begun, Sarah Palin's Pac and Huckabee's PAC are drawing the most. CAPAC, AIPAC are increasing in membership and soon fundraising.
RNCCC is fundraising for 2010 elections and is asking people to think hard about how bad do they really want to change DC for the better and then fund it accordingly.
The RNC under Michael Steele has cleaned house and is beginning to put the conservatives back into leadership and is moving the GOP in the right direction.
Constitutional party members who left the GOP in 2008 are returning back to the GOP
Libertarian party members are rejoining the GOP
In Michigan 4 State Senators threatened to switch party affiliation if the Governor does not cut spending (waiting for confirmation on this story)
In PA 2 State Legislators have asked the PAGOP what it would take for the GOP to accept their affiliation switch.
People who voted for the first time for Obama are now publically statin they made a huge mistake and they should have voted for McCain, at least Palin would have been VP.
Times are looking good for the GOP right now since they are unifying. See you on the victors platform in 2010.

More third party conservatives coming back home to the GOP today. YES the GOP is winning back the strayed conservatives. 2010 is looking much better.

The Obama mistake is scaring democrat primary voters from voicing their support for democrats in 2009 and again in 2010. Obama is losing more of his base support especially amongst the blue dog democrats. We have a chance to not only win but have a sizeable number of people switch allegience

And this I found in a thread discussing what the "new" republican party should stand for.

Well, as long as its just not RP foriegn Policy, true liberty fans, world peace fans, conservatives and national partriots will all be in the GOP.

Anyone dumb enough to believe otherwise will be sitting with the liberals in the asylum.

Fiscal Responsibility,
Small Government
Fiscal Oversight with Eternal Vigilance
Aggressive Solutions towards Poverty
Immigratrion Law Enforcement
BOLD Foriegn Policy: Do what is right, always,
and honor amongst allies.

Anything less, is just liberal or bs disguised to put money in whiner's hands.

Is this all they have?

[Gil Hamilton]

What the Republican party needs to do is suck it up and move toward the center on alot of issues. At this point, the Republican strategy seems to be delcaring that they aren't ideologically pure enough and also spin the Wheel of Name Calling for the epithet for liberals this week (I believe the Wheel for next week landed on calling Obama "Francisco Franco-esque").

At this point, a viable Republican party would gut some sacred cows, move left on alot of social isses like Gay Rights, and try to not defend George Bush's financial policies.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The terrifying thing for me is that people continue to support that insane, retarded bitch Palin. I even gave her the benefit of the doubt when she was appointed and observed it might completely change the election for McCain, that it was brilliant of him, but she rapidly proved to be nothing more than the ultimate symbol of the mouth-breathing retard segment Republican Party, coming out of the trailer parks to vote for one of their own. Ugh--and now the party seriously thinks appealing to them will work.

[Darth Wong]

I'm so sick of Republicans abusing the word "liberty". I found a nice quote about that:

"If society fits you comfortably enough, you call it freedom" - Robert Frost.

[Starglider]

Curiously enough I just got into a similar debate myself, where I read my opponent's argument as 'the Democrat victory was a fluke, we will easily defeat them in the next election, no need to do anything drastic'. However, perhaps I am misinterpreting this. It is possible that the US Republican base has lost so much morale that they really have to tell themselves 'everything is OK' repeatedly or fall into despair.

[Patrick Degan]

What the Republican party needs to do is suck it up and move toward the center on alot of issues. At this point, the Republican strategy seems to be delcaring that they aren't ideologically pure enough and also spin the Wheel of Name Calling for the epithet for liberals this week (I believe the Wheel for next week landed on calling Obama "Francisco Franco-esque").

At this point, a viable Republican party would gut some sacred cows, move left on alot of social isses like Gay Rights, and try to not defend George Bush's financial policies.

The GOP needs to become again the party of Teddy Roosevelt, but that won't happen since, by this point, T.R.'s practially a Communist on their scale.

Curiously enough I just got into a similar debate myself, where I read my opponent's argument as 'the Democrat victory was a fluke, we will easily defeat them in the next election, no need to do anything drastic'. However, perhaps I am misinterpreting this. It is possible that the US Republican base has lost so much morale that they really have to tell themselves 'everything is OK' repeatedly or fall into despair.

Their morale is fine, it's their grip on reality that's the problem. This is what happens when a political party becomes, for all intents and purposes, a mind-control cult.

[Vaporous]

Fiscal Responsibility
Small Government
Fiscal Oversight with Eternal Vigilance
Aggressive Solutions towards Poverty
Immigratrion Law Enforcement
BOLD Foriegn Policy: Do what is right, always,
and honor amongst allies.

how are these defining principles? if you ask anyone about, say, fiscal responsibility, are they likely to say "No, I'm a firm believer in being as irresponsible as possible"? The entire list is shit. I'm especially amused by the BOLD foreign policy. just do the right thing all the time! See, our old problem was that we thought fucking up sometimes was a good idea. now that we know we should do the right thing instead of the wrong one, it's smooth sailing!

[Duckie]

Of all people to smack it down, Susan Collins said of Republicans "Does the party honestly think that it lost Hispanics and Young People because it was not conservative enough?"

I think that sums up pretty much every Rebuild The Party attempt.

[Starglider]

Of all people to smack it down, Susan Collins said of Republicans "Does the party honestly think that it lost Hispanics and Young People because it was not conservative enough?"

Apparently, young people don't matter, because as they age they automatically turn into Republicans anyway. Hispanics will soon become Republicans because they will get wealthier (somehow, despite the actual trend towards increasing income disparity) and people also automatically turn into Republicans as they get wealthier. Conveniently, these set-in-stone trends obliviate the need for any reform of the Republican party...

[Knife]

Fiscal Responsibility,
Small Government
Fiscal Oversight with Eternal Vigilance
Aggressive Solutions towards Poverty
Immigratrion Law Enforcement
BOLD Foriegn Policy: Do what is right, always,
and honor amongst allies.

Here's the problem, the correlation between size of government and the amount of money said government needs to spend on it's society. Fiscal Responsibility can only amount to so much until you run out of fat to cut and then get into stuff that isn't fat but cut anyways to maintain your 'fiscal responsibility' cred. Look at all that silly epidemic money they cut out of the budget. Pfft, silly over spending on the off chance an epidemic tore through the country......

Same with the 'aggressive solutions to poverty'. Cutting 'fat' from the budget to satisfy point one, will eventually get you to a 'why spend money on those lazy poor folk' we should just motivated them to go get a job by cutting them off. Oh, no jobs, we can't spend money on making jobs and stimulating growth, I'm fiscally responsible.'

Then the last point, you can actually sum up all the points with; yet the last point screams the whole philosophy the loudest....WE TRIED THESE THINGS AND THEY FAILED HORRIBLY. Seriously, the GOPers are starting to sound like all the Communist apologists; it's a great system and only failed because those who tried it didn't do it right.

[PainRack]

Anyone remembers how "fiscal responsibility" crashed Indonesia during the Asian economic crisis?

[Surlethe]

Anyone remembers how "fiscal responsibility" crashed Indonesia during the Asian economic crisis?

I thought it was currency pegging?

Anyway, perhaps I'm pessimistic because I'm from a conservative social group in a relatively conservative part of the nation, but I think the Republican party stands a decent chance of coming back without significant reform. All they need is a charismatic politician who can create a proper simple story that encapsulates Republican beliefs and captures the nation's mind, much like Reagan did in 1980 and Gingrich did in 1994. My experience (perhaps biased) is that the nation remains significantly sympathetic to Republican beliefs - Reagan captured the imagination of the baby boomers, and that generation will have to start dying off before the United States can shift significantly to the left, much like the adults during the Depression had to start dying before the country could lurch to the right.

[Gil Hamilton]

I don't know. There is Huckabee, but he's not exactly the status quo for conversatives. He's socially conservative and charismatic, but he's got several planks, such as being reasonably pro-Environment and pro-Directly Helping the Poor, that have made him someone hard to swallow in the past. The More of the Same group in the Republican party who thinks that they are losing being Republican policy isn't conservative and pure ENOUGH is costing them.

In my home state, there has been an exodus of moderate Republicans to the Democratic party, which locally has been subverting tradition conservative planks. Arlen Specter's defection was a sign of the times here in PA. Everyone but the true believers see the Republican party in PA as a ship that is taking on alot of water. They aren't going to win by being more conservative here and I imagine its the same in alot of the country.

[Darth Wong]

The Republican party did just fine being far-right. The problem is that now they've actually gone beyond that, and they've become a caricature of the far-right. Just look at these ridiculous tea parties, talk of secession or open rebellion, screeching about "tyranny", etc.

They are confirming all of the worst accusations of people like myself and Elfdart over the years: the accusations that Republicans have always tried to ignore or refute by accusing us of strawman distortions and leftist propaganda.

[The Spartan]

There was someone on the news this morning, I didn't catch his name, they were talking about rebranding the GOP, saying that he thought the Republicans were going to go back to party of small government. The guy was clearly an asshole though, he said that he thought the five most beautiful words in the English language were the first five words of the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law." I can't help but point out that guys like him had no problem with laws and big government when they were in charge...

This is the kind of moron that's moving things around.

[Gil Hamilton]

There was someone on the news this morning, I didn't catch his name, they were talking about rebranding the GOP, saying that he thought the Republicans were going to go back to party of small government. The guy was clearly an asshole though, he said that he thought the five most beautiful words in the English language were the first five words of the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law." I can't help but point out that guys like him had no problem with laws and big government when they were in charge...

This is the kind of moron that's moving things around.

Wait, what? What he said is a sentence fragment, part of a sentence listing what Congress was not allowed to pass laws abridging. Congress is the legislative branch, its constitutional duty IS making law. That guy is a maroon.

[Glocksman]

There was someone on the news this morning, I didn't catch his name, they were talking about rebranding the GOP, saying that he thought the Republicans were going to go back to party of small government. The guy was clearly an asshole though, he said that he thought the five most beautiful words in the English language were the first five words of the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law." I can't help but point out that guys like him had no problem with laws and big government when they were in charge...

This is the kind of moron that's moving things around.

Wait, what? What he said is a sentence fragment, part of a sentence listing what Congress was not allowed to pass laws abridging. Congress is the legislative branch, its constitutional duty IS making law. That guy is a maroon.

No, he's not.
Congress is subject to the constitution and if the constitution says 'no law', then 'no law' it is.
Of course the breadth of that clause is subject to review by SCOTUS and reasonable people can disagree WRT the meaning of 'no law'.

Though I don't doubt this person you're quoting only discovered the beauty of the Bill of Rights on the morning after Obama was elected.
Most GOP'ers only appreciate limitations on governmental power after they've lost an election cycle or two.

[Samuel]

No, the phrase is "no law regarding the establishment of a religion".

[Gil Hamilton]

No, he's not.
Congress is subject to the constitution and if the constitution says 'no law', then 'no law' it is.
Of course the breadth of that clause is subject to review by SCOTUS and reasonable people can disagree WRT the meaning of 'no law'.

Though I don't doubt this person you're quoting only discovered the beauty of the Bill of Rights on the morning after Obama was elected.
Most GOP'ers only appreciate limitations on governmental power after they've lost an election cycle or two.

Yes, he is, because he deliberately cut out the rest of the sentence which "Congress shall make no law..." appears. The entire line is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." (Italicized only the part he mentioned)

Somewhat different than what he's talking about, huh? The Congress is the Federal legislative body, as outlined by he US Constitution. By definition, it's purpose is to make laws. Therefore, I'll reiterate that this guy is a maroon.

[The Spartan]

No, the phrase is "no law regarding the establishment of a religion".

The problem is the stupid fuck was implying something along the lines of, "I don't think Congress should pass laws."

My interpretation of it, since I didn't listen to the whole things, is that he's probably trying to make a case for "small government," which is what the GOP is starting to bleat about now that they're not in charge, and saying something really retarded to get his point across.

Edit: In other words, what Gil said.

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, he could also be going for cheap conservative political points, taking a shot at Congress and the Federal Gov'ment. It certainly is a big enough target. But it doesn't make much sense, if Congress, the body that the US Constitution has charged with legislation doesn't make laws... well, who does at the Federal level? Or are we just doing away with Federal level legislation? The foolishness of that idea should be apparent, outside of people who like to pretend that their municipality doesn't benefit from its exist as much as the next and are sure glad to see National Guardsmen when shit hits the fan.

[Patrick Degan]

Well, he could also be going for cheap conservative political points, taking a shot at Congress and the Federal Gov'ment. It certainly is a big enough target. But it doesn't make much sense, if Congress, the body that the US Constitution has charged with legislation doesn't make laws... well, who does at the Federal level? Or are we just doing away with Federal level legislation? The foolishness of that idea should be apparent, outside of people who like to pretend that their municipality doesn't benefit from its exist as much as the next and are sure glad to see National Guardsmen when shit hits the fan.

A lot of these people actually do think the Federal government has no business in their lives or presuming to act as a national legislature or enforcing national laws. You're talking about a lot of people who either flunked civics class in high school or never even had one to start with.

[The Yosemite Bear]

they went through high school and some went through college, with the knowledge that the social contract does not apply to them. Greed is good, as Douglas would say in the movie.