The Ideal Politics and Policies of the United States

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phongn
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Post by phongn »

HemlockGrey wrote:
1. They want Israel dead, and will continue to rally, probably bringing up memories of the occupation of Palestine and calls for vengeance.
Cut off the head and the body will die. A show of force will temporarly deter the fanatics; a strong bitchslap across Israel's face will stay the hand of the (few)moderates, and a serious attempt at rebuilding will probably, in time, dissipate the backing of the radicals. A Reconstruction will generate thousands of jobs, and if the jobs pay worth a rat's ass it is likely the average Omar will not be filled with thoughts of revolution.
Hopefully. Of course, this is all speculation at the moment, since this will obviously not happen.
2. Palestine is not Afghanistan. It is much more heavily built up, there will not be as many (if any) major airbases to use for airpower and plenty of places for US troops to hide.
True.
Which is a problem. The US's great strength is using it's airpower to flatten any fool who gets caught in the open, in Palestine there isn't much of an open place. And even a Small Diameter Bomb with GPS guidance will cause some collateral damage.
It will not be pretty for the US troops in Palestine.
Which is why an attempt would first be made to insert UN troops.
I have a feeling that US troops would be the peacekeepers here, though, under the banner of the UN.


It's an interesting idea (even if I disagree with it) - I'm playing devil's advocate and poking some into it to see if you can shore it up :D
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Post by phongn »

Durran Korr wrote:
phongn wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote: It may violate the 10th Amendment. However, I believe Number 10 is superceded by Number 1.
Your SFA may have to be entered as an amendment to get around the issue of the 10th Amendment, since it could conflict with state law; and the SFA is not a power delegated or prohibited by the US Constitution.
Well, although I personally would NOT approve of it, this could be gotten around. The First amendment guarantees freedom of expression, and through the Fourteenth Amendment, judges have applied the Bill of Rights to the states, so this might not be too unvalid based on a loose reading of the law.
First Amendment, under a strict reading, is freedom of religion, speech, press and the right to organize - it is not total freedom of expression.

And as for your point about the 14th Amendment, it's more or less exactly what I'm saying: an amendment was used to force the states in line.

And remember: there will always be Congress-critters and voters who use a strict interpretation of the Constitution and will act accordingly.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

Hopefully. Of course, this is all speculation at the moment, since this will obviously not happen.
Unless someone important recognizes my obvious political genius and manuevers me into power.
Which is a problem. The US's great strength is using it's airpower to flatten any fool who gets caught in the open, in Palestine there isn't much of an open place. And even a Small Diameter Bomb with GPS guidance will cause some collateral damage.
And collateral damage would be completely counterproductive to what is trying to be achieved. Hence, a budget increase to CIA and Spec Ops teams. Also, collaberation with foreign nations, most specifically the British, would be required in order to fuel this Hamas head-hunt.
I have a feeling that US troops would be the peacekeepers here, though, under the banner of the UN.
Therein lies the solution. The average American is a stupid fuck. You know this, I know this. If a newspaper reports that 'fifteen American soldiers killed in firefight', the public will go apeshit, since most Americans no longer realize that it is possible to take casualities in a war.

However, if fifteen 'UN peacekeepers' are killed, the average American will not make the connection. Further, 'UN peacekeepers' keep France and Germany off our backs and do not make us seem like flagrant unilateralists.
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Post by phongn »

HemlockGrey wrote:
Hopefully. Of course, this is all speculation at the moment, since this will obviously not happen.
Unless someone important recognizes my obvious political genius and manuevers me into power.
The unholy alliance begun by Sea Skimmer & I shall defeat you first.
And collateral damage would be completely counterproductive to what is trying to be achieved. Hence, a budget increase to CIA and Spec Ops teams. Also, collaberation with foreign nations, most specifically the British, would be required in order to fuel this Hamas head-hunt.
Yeah, but again, it'll be messy, and we wouldn't have the mass firepower advantage that we've historically enjoyed - which is my point.
I have a feeling that US troops would be the peacekeepers here, though, under the banner of the UN.
Therein lies the solution. The average American is a stupid fuck. You know this, I know this. If a newspaper reports that 'fifteen American soldiers killed in firefight', the public will go apeshit, since most Americans no longer realize that it is possible to take casualities in a war.

However, if fifteen 'UN peacekeepers' are killed, the average American will not make the connection. Further, 'UN peacekeepers' keep France and Germany off our backs and do not make us seem like flagrant unilateralists.
That may be true, but the average American is not stupid enough to be deceived by calling a US troop with a blue helmet a UN troop.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

Yeah, but again, it'll be messy, and we wouldn't have the mass firepower advantage that we've historically enjoyed - which is my point.
But it is quite likely that, if most of the operations are covert, we can keep any major casualties under wraps.
That may be true, but the average American is not stupid enough to be deceived by calling a US troop with a blue helmet a UN troop.
Well, if we can honestly say that there are no members of the United States Armed Forces in Palestine, that'll be good enough for most people.
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Re: The Ideal Politics and Policies of the United States

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

HemlockGrey wrote:My take. This will be updated as I feel like it. Add your own views, comment on mine, etc. It's all good.

THE IDEAL POLICIES AND POLITICS OF THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA

Amendments

The Equality Amendment- No law existing in the United States or any of it's territories will discriminate against any people regardless of sexual orientation or theistic/non-theistic beliefs. No oath of any sort, theistic or atheistic in nature, will be rendered upon the achievement of any public offce, save an oath to serve and uphold the Constitution. No institution, free from taxation or recieving government funding, shall discriminate against any person, on basis of sexual orientation, religion, race, or any other differation thereof.

The Effect: Strike all those stupid anti-sodomy laws and end the 'homosexuals in jail' laws. Deprive religious organizations of their tax-free status. Basicly cleaning house where government endorsement of religion is involved.

The Sancity of Privacy Amendment- No branch of the government shall conduct electronic surveillence, of any sort, without a warrant, supportd by evidence, probable cause, and oath or affirmation, according to the detail laid out by the Fourth Amendment. Any attempts to pursue such surveillence without a warrant shall be considered a felony.

It's Effect: Limit the powers of the government to spy on people in their homes. Whilst 'Enemy of the State' and 'Minority Report' were enjoyable movies, I do not wish them to become reality.

The Sexual Freedom Amendment- No law existing in the United States or any of it's territories will prohibit the free excercise of any sexual practice, provided that the practice in question
A) Involves only consenting adults
B) Does not take place in a public area
C) Does not render any physical or mental anguish onto the parties taking part in the act in question

It's Effect: Completely end any anti-homosexual laws, strike those old Puritan laws regarding sexuality.
Have you ever heard of States Rights? First of all, the XVth and XIXth Amendments and the Civil Rights Act already cover all effective concerns from your first proposed amendment. All you would be doing is destroying traditional implements of office which are part of our national heritage. There's absolutely no point in such a reform.

An Amendment on sexual freedom is, honestly, a very crass thing to put in a constitution of a nation. The judiciary has already interpeted the right of two consenting adults to engage in sexual activity to be effectively a matter of Freedom of Expression and beyond that we don't need anything specific. Natural cultural development will take care of the rest.

As for a privacy amendment, we would have to define the limitations of electronic surveillence, the government's right in public places, and how it applies to the sanctity of the home. Perhaps it would be an elaboration?
Laws, Bills, Acts, and Legislations

The War Limitations Act- No active members of the United States military shall be deployed to any foreign country for a span longer than six months unless
A) The foreign government in question requests or otherwise permits the deployment
B) A motion for extended deployment is made in either the House or the Senate and wins a majority vote in both, to be brought up for reconsideration in another six months.

If, at any time, 2/3rds of the assembled Congress passes a declaration of war, troops may be deployed to the nation in question for a term not exceeding 36 months. At the end of 36 months, the issue may be brought up for another vote, at which point the Congress may either decide to withdraw troops, approve another 6 months of deployment, or to uphold the declaration of war.

It's Effect: Limits the President's power to send troops wherever the hell he feels like it. Note that the President may still deploy troops at will; his ability to keep them there is simply diminished. I'm a bit unsure about this and would like some comments on it.
How can you put a time limit on deployments? If a major war starts and you are required by law to withdraw your troops, the result could be far worse than sending them over in the first place, or keeping them there. Considerably worse. Especially for the troops themselves.

Furthermore, we already have a mechanism for Declarations of War which is laid out in the constitution. Why change it? The President's duties are clearly laid out - He receives Congressional authority, and then he wages War with it.

This has happened both after 9/11, and with Iraq, even if the declaration of war was not a literal one but implied (And interpeted as such by the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in a recent case).

There's simply nothing wrong with the system here that needs fixing.
Foreign Policy

General Foreign Policy- The United States will take an active role in world affairs to protect it's interests and the interests of democracy the world over. The age of isolationism passed away when the dust settled on the burning remains of Pearl Harbor, and it is now an obsolete concept. Input from our trusted allies and the United Nations is always welcome, however, if the United States feels it or it's allies is under threat it will not hesitate to act. Further, American soldiers can and will be used to meditate conflicts detrimental to America or the ideals of democracy.

Israel and Palestine- Israel will be told, in no uncertain terms, to withdraw from the Occupied Territories or face a complete severance of economic and military aid, followed by embargoes. Further, they will immediatly address all human right's issues existing within their borders. They will not, in the future, take any aggressive action against their neighbors unless the very dogs of war are upon them, and, in that instance, no territory is to be taken.

The PLA will be disbanded. Hopefully UN peacekeepers can be deployed to the area; if not, American soldiers may have to spearhead the effort. Hamas and other organizations will also be disbanded; if any more bombings or other terrorist activities continue, they will suffer the fate of al-Queda. Palestine will recieve a healthy flow of economic aid to usher in a new era of rebuilding. A national government will be set up, complete with actual elections. I suspect that there is the slight possiblity of guerilla activity waged against American soldiers; I believe a healthy injection of lethal force and education can be used to combat the indigenous hatred that has infused the area for so long.
Look, you're not going to solve Israel and Palestine like that by infringing upon the rights of a Sovereign State which is a nuclear power. Israel can survive on its own every without American support, its done so before and can do so again, and two hundred atomic bombs make them one of the most powerful countries in the world.

The only way to bring peace to that region is to ignore the Palestinians, who are totally fanaticized, and work through the governments of established States, which at least have some sane people represented in them (And, yes, in Israel. Did you ignore the results of the elect and the gains made by Shinui?).

Obviously the interests of the Palestinian people cannot be ignored, but they must be represented by the Arab States of the Levant, as the Palestinians have proven themselves incapable of self government and incapable of reasonable negotiation. For them to become reasonable participators in the global market, they must be detached from their process and their society rebuild in the context of the surrounding Arab States, their interests protected by their fellows therein. Only then will the fanaticism die - and only after much blood.


In conclusion, though: Why the heck do we need this kind of societal engineering when most European countries still have a State Church? Or even, why does Israel need to be fully secular, end exemptions to the very religious, and so on, when the Queen of England is the head of the Anglican Church, when there's a State Church of Norway, or Lutheranism is the official religion of Denmark, or so on, ad infinitum?

Israel is a rational State operating on rational dictates, which like most modern States still has a religious conservative element in it. The EU just proved it did if you look in the morality section.

But this board is overrun with people demanding a wholly secular American society, or a wholly secular Israeli one, while these other elements in western civilization are utterly ignored. It's the height of a completely disgusting anti-American hypocrisy that one may find quite prevalent here.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

I have been waiting with bated breath for this moment. Yah.
An Amendment on sexual freedom is, honestly, a very crass thing to put in a constitution of a nation. The judiciary has already interpeted the right of two consenting adults to engage in sexual activity to be effectively a matter of Freedom of Expression and beyond that we don't need anything specific. Natural cultural development will take care of the rest.
Natural cultural development is too slow. State law needs a kick in the ass.
As for a privacy amendment, we would have to define the limitations of electronic surveillence, the government's right in public places, and how it applies to the sanctity of the home. Perhaps it would be an elaboration?
Of course. This is only a very rough draft.
There's simply nothing wrong with the system here that needs fixing.
It is basically to implement a method of constantly evaluating the need for continued deployments.

To tell the truth, this act was jointly written up by myself and a friend and we're both rather sketchy on it.
The only way to bring peace to that region is to ignore the Palestinians, who are totally fanaticized, and work through the governments of established States, which at least have some sane people represented in them (And, yes, in Israel. Did you ignore the results of the elect and the gains made by Shinui?).
Ignoring the Palestinians has worked quite well, hasn't it?
Obviously the interests of the Palestinian people cannot be ignored, but they must be represented by the Arab States of the Levant, as the Palestinians have proven themselves incapable of self government and incapable of reasonable negotiation. For them to become reasonable participators in the global market, they must be detached from their process and their society rebuild in the context of the surrounding Arab States, their interests protected by their fellows therein. Only then will the fanaticism die - and only after much blood.
'In the context of the surrounding Arab states'? As in, brutal dictatorships? I think not.
In conclusion, though: Why the heck do we need this kind of societal engineering when most European countries still have a State Church? Or even, why does Israel need to be fully secular, end exemptions to the very religious, and so on, when the Queen of England is the head of the Anglican Church, when there's a State Church of Norway, or Lutheranism is the official religion of Denmark, or so on, ad infinitum?
Because a secular government is an ideal one. It does not have to contend with any sort of religious pandering in order to function.
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Post by RedImperator »

The less fiddle-dicking with the Constitution, the better. I hate it every time some bozo in Congress decides that amending the founding charter of the United States is the best way to promote his pet issue. I agree with you in spirit, Hemlock, but frankly, nothing you've come up with couldn't be handled by the courts, the states, and a little backbone from the voters.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

and a little backbone from the voters.
Hollar if you see any.
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Post by RedImperator »

HemlockGrey wrote:
and a little backbone from the voters.
Hollar if you see any.
If everybody would just take all their opinions from me, this would be a better country. Well, for me anyway.
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Post by fgalkin »

HemlockGrey wrote:Yes, I will be updating it shortly. Just wanted people's reactions initially.
The foreign policy towards Israel is wrong.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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