Star Trek/Star Wars STGOD?

[Master_Baerne]

I believe you mean 1:4:1.

[Ryan Thunder]

Whatever, I'm tired.

[Raj Ahten]

I voted for Star Wars. What can I say, I'm a Warsie .

[Coyote]

I'd be more'n happy to share the rulesets I developed from the SBcom version. It's been running for about 5 years now so it reflects 5 years worth of "things that came up that need adjudication", though-- fair warning!

I can also share the ship lists we came up with, showing costs of ships by points, and how long they take to build, and a cost estimate. We were going to track some economics in the game, but never got around to it because no one wants to play "Accounting Tycoon".

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd be more'n happy to share the rulesets I developed from the SBcom version. It's been running for about 5 years now so it reflects 5 years worth of "things that came up that need adjudication", though-- fair warning!

I can also share the ship lists we came up with, showing costs of ships by points, and how long they take to build, and a cost estimate. We were going to track some economics in the game, but never got around to it because no one wants to play "Accounting Tycoon".

I'm just a little bit nervous about making the rules to complicated. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who prefers simpler rules. Of course, I also know from experience that this is something that gets argued over every time one of these starts, so meh.

Other than that one concern though, sounds good.

[RogueIce]

I'm just a little bit nervous about making the rules to complicated. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who prefers simpler rules. Of course, I also know from experience that this is something that gets argued over every time one of these starts, so meh.

Other than that one concern though, sounds good.

The way I tend to look at rules/game mods and the like is that they're there as a sort of arbiter, or last resort. Granted some of them are more first string (ie: no build spam!) but insofar as combat and the like goes, the main method should be cooperation with the players. But if that doesn't work - and let's be realistic here, we all know it doesn't 100% of the time, especially for "Major" battles - the rules/mods are a good fallback option.

Because without rules or the like, you can get the neverending arguments over a battle that kill games, or have players walk off in disgust.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm just a little bit nervous about making the rules to complicated. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who prefers simpler rules. Of course, I also know from experience that this is something that gets argued over every time one of these starts, so meh.

Other than that one concern though, sounds good.

The way I tend to look at rules/game mods and the like is that they're there as a sort of arbiter, or last resort. Granted some of them are more first string (ie: no build spam!) but insofar as combat and the like goes, the main method should be cooperation with the players. But if that doesn't work - and let's be realistic here, we all know it doesn't 100% of the time, especially for "Major" battles - the rules/mods are a good fallback option.

Because without rules or the like, you can get the neverending arguments over a battle that kill games, or have players walk off in disgust.

Nothing you've told me here I couldn't have worked out for myself. I think the importance of rules, at least beyond basics, is somewhat overrated, as even with rules it ultimately comes down to the intelligence and integrity of the players, and without that, the game's screwed either way.

Really though, I only draw my personal line at two points: the point where it takes me longer to figure out the rules pertaining to my posts than to write them, and the point where battle results are mathematically pre-determined. But since a lot of people seem to favor complicated rules, I might as well take the opposing position and hope that the end result is a decent compromise.

[DarthShady]

I'd be more'n happy to share the rulesets I developed from the SBcom version. It's been running for about 5 years now so it reflects 5 years worth of "things that came up that need adjudication", though-- fair warning!

I can also share the ship lists we came up with, showing costs of ships by points, and how long they take to build, and a cost estimate. We were going to track some economics in the game, but never got around to it because no one wants to play "Accounting Tycoon".

Maybe we could use some of the core rules to help setup our own game, but I agree with The Romulan Republic, we don't want to complicate things too much. Keep it simple and work out problems as they come along. I know I don't want to play a game of economics, numbers and math. SD.net World gives me enough problems with that already. The game should be fun and not number crunching. Battles can always be worked out between players, like me and Fin did in that Fantasy STGOD - and if that doesn't work, then we fall back on the rules or mods.

Do we want to appoint mods for this game?

[Master_Baerne]

We should have a "fallback mod" - one we only use if we can't work out our problems ourselves. Saves people feeling left out of decisions, even if the one reached is the one they'd have come to themselves.

[Raj Ahten]

I'd be more'n happy to share the rulesets I developed from the SBcom version. It's been running for about 5 years now so it reflects 5 years worth of "things that came up that need adjudication", though-- fair warning!

I can also share the ship lists we came up with, showing costs of ships by points, and how long they take to build, and a cost estimate. We were going to track some economics in the game, but never got around to it because no one wants to play "Accounting Tycoon".

Please do post these rules, or at least a link to them. It should good food for thought if nothing else.

[Coyote]

Here was what I had:

STAR WARS: REBUILDING of EMPIRES RULES

It is a period of uncertainty in the Galaxy.

After the rebirth of the CLONE EMPEROR at BYSS, all the major remnant factions of the GALACTIC EMPIRE came together to assault the fledgeling NEW REPUBLIC. All Major characters were killed in a dramatic assault on CORUSCANT, years ago.

Left behind were many smaller Factions of worlds that banded together for mutual security. Some tried to rebuild the EMPIRE; some tried to rebuild REPUBLICS; some tried to re-ignite the SEPERATISTS; while some remained INDEPENDENT.

Now, these Factions try to survive in an uncertain future, where politics, wars, diplomacy and brinksmanship could determine survival for the GALAXY...

HOW TO START A FACTION:

You start with a maximum of 4 worlds in an area that have decided to band together to protect themselves from the mean ol' Galaxy. You're encouraged to look up the worlds in Wookiepedia and find out about them so you can make informative, in-depth and in-character posts (ie, it would not go over well to claim a planet that is mostly desert and try to say that it's got lots of oceans and lush jungles, for example).

Once you pick your planets, we determine a point value for them.

CLASSES:
Homeworld- 600 pts.
Major----- 400 pts.
Average--- 200 pts.
Minor----- 100 pts.
Colony---- 50 pts.


A major homeworld, like Corellia or Coruscant (or of another major, space-faring species) is worth 600 points. (A "major, space-faring species" means a sentient species that has achieved faster-than-light travel on its own --so, like, Ewoks or Jawas don't count since, though they may be intelligent species, they never developed space travel-- or much technology on their own at all).


"Major" worlds are worlds that may not be homeworlds to major species, but are large, high-population industrial giants. Your typical "city-world" will be like this, such as Eriadu or Druckenwell.


"Average" worlds are worlds that have sizeable and respectable populations, but have not covered the surface of their worlds in population. They may be popular or important, but they're not giants on the Galactic scene. Naboo, for example, is an "Average" world.


"Minor" worlds are worlds with self-sustaining population but very little real power or influence. Bespin would be like that.


"Colony" is a small world or space station that relies on contact with another world to keep going. Any large, industrial space station would be a Colony (but not an ordinary Golan defense platform-- you can't spam space stations to boost your points). Mining colonies like the one on Mustafar would fit in this category.


Try to find a small cluster of worlds that are near each other, don't go picking all Homeworlds that are clear across the Galaxy from one another. Have a good, clear reason why these worlds banded together, especially if they're a mix of, say, former Imperial and Republic worlds.

---

Decide if you want your government to be Imperial, Republic, Seperatist, or Independent in nature. That will also determine what types of ships you can start out with.

---

Put your worlds together and add them up. The resulting number of points is what you use to buy ships with.

---


Ship Construction List
The list here spells out which ships are accepted as canon for this game. Custom designs and cross-overs from other universes are NOT permitted.


SHIP RULES:
1. Minor Ship mods are allowed: Straight out swaps should be alright, for example: Trading a turbolaser for a shield generator or an ion cannon, one-for-one. Modification such as this can only be performed on military craft. Warships can also be converted into the civilian ships by stripping them of weapons.


2. Putting weapons on Civilian Ships: Some civilian ships carry weapons to protect themselves from pirates. But if you mount too many weapons on a civilian ship, it is no longer considered a civilian ship, but a combat ship, and open to attack from hostile navies. Determine how big your civilian ship is, and find a military ship close to the same size. Count the number of weapons on the military ship and divide by 10. The resulting number is how many weapons you can place on your civilian ship. If you go over that number, then it is no longer considered a civilian ship but a military vessel.


3. Police/Customs/Border Patrol/Enforcement Ships: Police ships are calculated using the same points system used for Navy ships, and with a difference-- Police ships are meant to CAPTURE, not DESTROY, their targets. At least 50% of the weapons on a Police vessel must be Ion Cannons and/or Tractor Beams. Police Ship fleets must be made up of at least 50% Corvettes or Frigates, and nothing larger than a Cruiser class is allowed (so, no "Police Star Destroyers").

4. No plantary scale weaponry/'superweapons' on any sort of ship or station.

5. Any new weapons development and technology need to passed through one of the Mods

6. 6 game months development time for the above-mentioned modifications.

7. 12 game months development time for new ships.

8. Cloaking Devices for fighters are VERY expensive. You cannot equip entire fleets or wings of fighters with cloaks. At most a faction can equip 1 cloaked fighter squadron for every 1 major planet or above they have represented in their OOB. Police fighters do not have cloaks.

9. If you build ships from another political faction (ie, Republic trying to build or buy Imperial ships), then take the base cost of the ship (in either time or points), divide by half, and add that half to the base cost again. So a 10 point ship will cost you 15 points if it is from another faction. The only exception is Independent ships, which can be built by anyone at their base cost. Independent faction owners, however, must pay the "cost + half" for importing a Seperatist, Imperial or Republic ship.



Codes for ships:
+ means you may not start out with one of these, but can acquire it later.
* means that the design is owned by a particular faction, and you must ask for the plans before you can build it.
$ means that the design can only be operated by members of a particular species; you can modify them for x2 the cost.


---


7 real days = One game month
Every 4 real-time months = 1 game year


Building or Buying Ships:
In order to build ships, you need shipyards. Shipyards come in four standard types: Imperial; Republic; Seperatist, and Independent. Building Shipyards costs points, just like building ships does.


Imperial standard is the most common type since the Empire had shipyards all over the Galaxy to suit their needs. Many areas retained independent shipyard facilities so the Empire could not easily adapt their yards if they were captured.


Buying ships cost money and you have to have it accounted for somehow. You get the ship 'right now' but you also have to find a crew 'right now' or it sits in the yards for at least 3-4 months while waiting for crews. You can also buy Droid crewers or Clone crewers from various factions around the Galaxy, but it costs more money.


Whether building or Buying, use common sense. A faction of 2-6 worlds is not going to have the tax or industry base to suddenly purchase or build 300 Star Destroyers. A typical start-up faction will have 1-6 worlds, a small fleet of up to two-dozen (24) ships, and up to 10 shipyards of various sizes, either Imperial or Independent.

There are advantages to staying small: Factions with less than 10 worlds can shave 1 month off of build times. Larger factions have more bureacracy, worker shortages, and other headaches to deal with.


*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

EXAMPLE: Let's start with a faction:

Player Bob decides to start an Imperial faction, which he's named The Stellar Empire.


Planet Alpha: Homeworld, 600 points.
Planet Beta: Major Planet, 400 points.
Planet Ceti: Average Planet, 200 points.
Planet Gamma: Minor Planet, 100 points.

Add them together: Bob has 1,300 points to spend to outfit his fleet for The Stellar Empire.

Bob goes to the Shiplist and picks Imperial ships to start with. He must buy at least 10 shipyards-- they can be the smaller, cheaper ones to save points, but if he does that, then he'll have to spend the time to build larger yards later. Or, he can buy bigger shipyards, and start with a smaller fleet.

Bob buys:
1 1000 meter shipyard: 130 points each for 130 points.
2 800 meter shipyards: 100 points each for 200 points.
7 200 meter shipyards: 70 points each for 490 points.
2 Imperial-II Star Destroyers: 12 points apiece for 48 points.
8 Victory-II Star Destroyers: 8 points apiece for 64 points
50 Gladiator Cruisers: 5 points apiece for 250 points.

Bob has spent 1,182 points so far. He has 118 points left. So he buys one Golan-III defense station for each world.
4 Golan-III stations: 14 points each for 56 points.

Bob has 62 points left. He's always liked the Katana Dreadnought and wants to buy some, but the Katana Dreadnought is listed as a Republic, not an Imperial design. So he has to look up the cost of the Katana Dreadnought that's listed, and add half the value again since it is a non-standard ship for his Imperial-designed shipyards.

A basic Republic Katana-class Dreadnought is 4 points. Half of 4 is 2, so he adds 2 + 4 = 6. Because he is an Imperial shipbuilder trying to build a Republic ship, it will cost him 6 points per Katana Dreadnought. Bob decides to go ahead and start with 5 of them.

5 Katana Dreadnoughts at 6 points apiece: 30 points.

If Bob wants to build Katana Dreadnoughts in the future, the cost of time works out the same way. It will take him 12 months instead of the listed 8 months (half of 8 is 4; 8 + 4 = 12). If Bob wants to get more Dreadnoughts in the future, without paying the penalty, he'll have to build a Republic Shipyard to do it. But guess what? The same rules apply for shipyards: take the amount of time required to build the shipyards, and add half the time again. So it'll take a long time in-game to build the required shipyards, but then once he's done, he can build Katana Dreadnoughts with no penalty at all.

Bob has 32 points left, and buys some Police ships:
16 IPV-1 Patrol ships at 2 points each: 32 points.



SUMMARY:
Bob buys:
1 1000 meter shipyard: 130 points each for 130 points.
2 800 meter shipyards: 100 points each for 200 points.
7 200 meter shipyards: 70 points each for 490 points.
2 Imperial-II Star Destroyers: 12 points apiece for 48 points.
8 Victory-II Star Destroyers: 8 points apiece for 64 points
50 Gladiator Cruisers: 5 points apiece for 250 points.
4 Golan-III stations: 14 points each for 56 points.
5 Katana Dreadnoughts at 6 points apiece: 30 points (higer cost for non-Imperial design).
31 IPV-1 Patrol ships at 2 points each: 32 points.


Total: 1300 points. Bob broke even.

[Raj Ahten]

Coyote, was just making up worlds allowed in the system used on Spacebattles or do you have to use worlds that are from premade sources?

I ask because my idea for a faction is a few planets, some ex-seperatist, being run an old neomodian admiral or the like (because I want there to be some competent/brave neomodians damn it!). Most of the fleet would be war surplus that was hidden or been reactivated after the clone wars. The problem is there aren't too many seperatist world write ups that I'm aware of.

That system certainly is detailed: I'll have to go over it for before posting more thoughts on it.

Would it also be possible to put up the ships list?

[DarthShady]

Well, I like it, a lot. This could be just what we are looking for.

Also: Raj I don't see a problem with you just making up worlds, if the ones you need for your purposes don't exist.

And yeah a ships list would be great.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ok, let's take this one point at a time. Don't get me wrong, it looks pretty good, but I have a lot of questions and comments.

Here was what I had:

STAR WARS: REBUILDING of EMPIRES RULES

It is a period of uncertainty in the Galaxy.

After the rebirth of the CLONE EMPEROR at BYSS, all the major remnant factions of the GALACTIC EMPIRE came together to assault the fledgeling NEW REPUBLIC. All Major characters were killed in a dramatic assault on CORUSCANT, years ago.

Left behind were many smaller Factions of worlds that banded together for mutual security. Some tried to rebuild the EMPIRE; some tried to rebuild REPUBLICS; some tried to re-ignite the SEPERATISTS; while some remained INDEPENDENT.

Now, these Factions try to survive in an uncertain future, where politics, wars, diplomacy and brinksmanship could determine survival for the GALAXY...

What's the state of Coruscant? Is it still around, or was it given a Base Delta Zero or something?

A little elaboration on backstory might also help differentiate ours from the other one on Spacebattles.

HOW TO START A FACTION:

You start with a maximum of 4 worlds in an area that have decided to band together to protect themselves from the mean ol' Galaxy. You're encouraged to look up the worlds in Wookiepedia and find out about them so you can make informative, in-depth and in-character posts (ie, it would not go over well to claim a planet that is mostly desert and try to say that it's got lots of oceans and lush jungles, for example).

I'm mostly fine with this, though I would point out that people complained when I set the limit to one major world and ten colonies. Some people may find four worlds, with a maximum of 2,400 points, to be too little. Unless we lower the point value of units, but if we do that then some units will likely be worth only a decimal point apiece (maybe that's fine though).

Once you pick your planets, we determine a point value for them.

Who is the arbiter if their is a disagreement over the point value of a world? Their are a lot of worlds in canon, and there is a lot of inconsistant canon. Granted, this will likely be an issue with any system of rules we use.

CLASSES:
Homeworld- 600 pts.
Major----- 400 pts.
Average--- 200 pts.
Minor----- 100 pts.
Colony---- 50 pts.


A major homeworld, like Corellia or Coruscant (or of another major, space-faring species) is worth 600 points. (A "major, space-faring species" means a sentient species that has achieved faster-than-light travel on its own --so, like, Ewoks or Jawas don't count since, though they may be intelligent species, they never developed space travel-- or much technology on their own at all).


"Major" worlds are worlds that may not be homeworlds to major species, but are large, high-population industrial giants. Your typical "city-world" will be like this, such as Eriadu or Druckenwell.


"Average" worlds are worlds that have sizeable and respectable populations, but have not covered the surface of their worlds in population. They may be popular or important, but they're not giants on the Galactic scene. Naboo, for example, is an "Average" world.


"Minor" worlds are worlds with self-sustaining population but very little real power or influence. Bespin would be like that.


"Colony" is a small world or space station that relies on contact with another world to keep going. Any large, industrial space station would be a Colony (but not an ordinary Golan defense platform-- you can't spam space stations to boost your points). Mining colonies like the one on Mustafar would fit in this category.

Sounds good.

Try to find a small cluster of worlds that are near each other, don't go picking all Homeworlds that are clear across the Galaxy from one another. Have a good, clear reason why these worlds banded together, especially if they're a mix of, say, former Imperial and Republic worlds.

Given hyperspace speeds, why must worlds in a faction be near one another?

---

Decide if you want your government to be Imperial, Republic, Seperatist, or Independent in nature. That will also determine what types of ships you can start out with.

What about ships that are sold on the civilian or black market (transports, probably obsolete fighters, Corrillean Corvette all come to mind)?

Put your worlds together and add them up. The resulting number of points is what you use to buy ships with.

What about purchasing extra ground units/planetary defences beyond what's available on your ships/stations?

Ship Construction List
The list here spells out which ships are accepted as canon for this game. Custom designs and cross-overs from other universes are NOT permitted.

Oh well, I can see the logic to it. But plenty of other STGODs have had custom designs, and I don't know that such is a bad thing as long as the designs are restricted to Star Wars tech.

I agree with ships from other universes though, unless people want to invite madness and turn this into Trek vs Wars.

SHIP RULES:
1. Minor Ship mods are allowed: Straight out swaps should be alright, for example: Trading a turbolaser for a shield generator or an ion cannon, one-for-one. Modification such as this can only be performed on military craft. Warships can also be converted into the civilian ships by stripping them of weapons.

How does that effect the ship's point value, if at all? Does it cost us if we mod a ship mid-game?

2. Putting weapons on Civilian Ships: Some civilian ships carry weapons to protect themselves from pirates. But if you mount too many weapons on a civilian ship, it is no longer considered a civilian ship, but a combat ship, and open to attack from hostile navies.

Does this mean there's a rule against attacking civilian vessels?

Determine how big your civilian ship is, and find a military ship close to the same size. Count the number of weapons on the military ship and divide by 10. The resulting number is how many weapons you can place on your civilian ship. If you go over that number, then it is no longer considered a civilian ship but a military vessel.

I'd think weapons power is more important than weapons numbers. A ship with one heavy turbolaser is much more menacing a combatant than a ship with fifty kiloton-level point-defence guns. Also, this could be tricky, since "find a military ship close to the same size" means very little. An Interdictory Frigate, if I recall, is rather lightly armed for its size, etc. But maybe leaving it open is a good thing.

3. Police/Customs/Border Patrol/Enforcement Ships: Police ships are calculated using the same points system used for Navy ships, and with a difference-- Police ships are meant to CAPTURE, not DESTROY, their targets. At least 50% of the weapons on a Police vessel must be Ion Cannons and/or Tractor Beams. Police Ship fleets must be made up of at least 50% Corvettes or Frigates, and nothing larger than a Cruiser class is allowed (so, no "Police Star Destroyers").

This seems rather arbitrary and needless. What does it matter if a ship is called a police ship or not? Its how its used that matters. So why not let someone call their vessels police ships if they wish? Players will still react to them based on their capabillities, and they'll still have the same capabilities. I guess what I'm saying is, why do we need a sepperate, artificial class for police ships?

And a cruiser level ship with fifty percent turbolasers and 50% Ion canons is damn formidable. Since Star Destroyers are cruisers at best, destroyers at worst, a "police Star Destroyer" sounds perfectly possible under this system. Then again, Wars ship classifications are screwy as hell, and I probably wouldn't include a particular classification system in the rules at all if it can be avoided.

4. No plantary scale weaponry/'superweapons' on any sort of ship or station.

While given the limitations on planet numbers I doubt anyone could afford them, why make it a solid ban? Its not like such weapons are all that rare in Star Wars.

5. Any new weapons development and technology need to passed through one of the Mods

Agreed completely. Or just not allow any at all.

6. 6 game months development time for the above-mentioned modifications.

How do we determine when six months have passed in-game? Is this real time? Because that poses its own problems if, say, someone can't post for a few days.

7. 12 game months development time for new ships.

Same issues as above.

8. Cloaking Devices for fighters are VERY expensive. You cannot equip entire fleets or wings of fighters with cloaks. At most a faction can equip 1 cloaked fighter squadron for every 1 major planet or above they have represented in their OOB. Police fighters do not have cloaks.

So if a player designates a vessel a "police ship," it can't be cloaked regardless of the laws of their faction or the points they invest in it? Why?

Again, I would strongly consider scrapping the "police ship" designation as anything more than what the player prefers to name their ships as.

9. If you build ships from another political faction (ie, Republic trying to build or buy Imperial ships), then take the base cost of the ship (in either time or points), divide by half, and add that half to the base cost again. So a 10 point ship will cost you 15 points if it is from another faction. The only exception is Independent ships, which can be built by anyone at their base cost. Independent faction owners, however, must pay the "cost + half" for importing a Seperatist, Imperial or Republic ship.

Not too bad, but really, why not allow people to have whatever ships they want? Aren't most ships produced by private companies for sale? What about captured ships? In a time of galactic chaos such as the backstory suggests, wouldn't a lot of fleets be scraped together out of whatever was available? Really, this is one place I think we could simplify things by just scrapping a rule.

Codes for ships:
+ means you may not start out with one of these, but can acquire it later.
* means that the design is owned by a particular faction, and you must ask for the plans before you can build it.
$ means that the design can only be operated by members of a particular species; you can modify them for x2 the cost.

That last sounds a tad overpriced for realism, but if a case can be made that it helps playability, fine. Otherwise, no comment.

7 real days = One game month
Every 4 real-time months = 1 game year

Ok, except that because a battle might take days to play out in, and players might go a few days without posting, and then a month has gone by while a fleet was crossing between two systems and fighting a single battle.

Really, I much prefer to leave time vague in these kinds of games.

Building or Buying Ships:
In order to build ships, you need shipyards. Shipyards come in four standard types: Imperial; Republic; Seperatist, and Independent. Building Shipyards costs points, just like building ships does.

Sounds ok.

Imperial standard is the most common type since the Empire had shipyards all over the Galaxy to suit their needs. Many areas retained independent shipyard facilities so the Empire could not easily adapt their yards if they were captured.

Sounds fine.

Buying ships cost money and you have to have it accounted for somehow. You get the ship 'right now' but you also have to find a crew 'right now' or it sits in the yards for at least 3-4 months while waiting for crews. You can also buy Droid crewers or Clone crewers from various factions around the Galaxy, but it costs more money.

How much more? And how do you determine weather you have enough crew for a ship? You didn't list any rules about population or military size. Also, ships are built instantaneously, or do they take time to build?

Whether building or Buying, use common sense. A faction of 2-6 worlds is not going to have the tax or industry base to suddenly purchase or build 300 Star Destroyers. A typical start-up faction will have 1-6 worlds, a small fleet of up to two-dozen (24) ships, and up to 10 shipyards of various sizes, either Imperial or Independent.

What's the diference if cost, if any, between building and buying?

Also, I thought we were limited to four starting worlds? And does this mean we have to start with Imperial or independant shipyards, even when playing another faction? Lastly, this makes it sound like the point value of ships is left up to the player to make a reasonable guess, while elsewhere it sounded like their was a list of point values for different types of ships.

There are advantages to staying small: Factions with less than 10 worlds can shave 1 month off of build times. Larger factions have more bureacracy, worker shortages, and other headaches to deal with.

And more resources. Also, what is the purpose of this rule? I don't know if it does any harm besides adding another rule, but does it do any good?

EXAMPLE: Let's start with a faction:

Player Bob decides to start an Imperial faction, which he's named The Stellar Empire.


Planet Alpha: Homeworld, 600 points.
Planet Beta: Major Planet, 400 points.
Planet Ceti: Average Planet, 200 points.
Planet Gamma: Minor Planet, 100 points.

Add them together: Bob has 1,300 points to spend to outfit his fleet for The Stellar Empire.

Bob goes to the Shiplist and picks Imperial ships to start with. He must buy at least 10 shipyards-- they can be the smaller, cheaper ones to save points, but if he does that, then he'll have to spend the time to build larger yards later. Or, he can buy bigger shipyards, and start with a smaller fleet.

Requiring the player to build at least ten shipyards seems needless and arbitrary.

Bob buys:
1 1000 meter shipyard: 130 points each for 130 points.
2 800 meter shipyards: 100 points each for 200 points.
7 200 meter shipyards: 70 points each for 490 points.
2 Imperial-II Star Destroyers: 12 points apiece for 48 points.
8 Victory-II Star Destroyers: 8 points apiece for 64 points
50 Gladiator Cruisers: 5 points apiece for 250 points.

Bob has spent 1,182 points so far. He has 118 points left. So he buys one Golan-III defense station for each world.
4 Golan-III stations: 14 points each for 56 points.

Do you have a list of what each unit is worth? What happens when a player chooses an obscure but canon unit that's not on the list? Also, what about units like a fighter squadron or an infantry regiment that might be worth decimal point values on this system?

Bob has 62 points left. He's always liked the Katana Dreadnought and wants to buy some, but the Katana Dreadnought is listed as a Republic, not an Imperial design. So he has to look up the cost of the Katana Dreadnought that's listed, and add half the value again since it is a non-standard ship for his Imperial-designed shipyards.

A basic Republic Katana-class Dreadnought is 4 points. Half of 4 is 2, so he adds 2 + 4 = 6. Because he is an Imperial shipbuilder trying to build a Republic ship, it will cost him 6 points per Katana Dreadnought. Bob decides to go ahead and start with 5 of them.

5 Katana Dreadnoughts at 6 points apiece: 30 points.

If Bob wants to build Katana Dreadnoughts in the future, the cost of time works out the same way. It will take him 12 months instead of the listed 8 months (half of 8 is 4; 8 + 4 = 12). If Bob wants to get more Dreadnoughts in the future, without paying the penalty, he'll have to build a Republic Shipyard to do it. But guess what? The same rules apply for shipyards: take the amount of time required to build the shipyards, and add half the time again. So it'll take a long time in-game to build the required shipyards, but then once he's done, he can build Katana Dreadnoughts with no penalty at all.

In addition to my previous points regarding limiting what ships are available, I observe that the abillity to do so would presume that the game ran quite a long time. How long do most STGODs run?

Bob has 32 points left, and buys some Police ships:
16 IPV-1 Patrol ships at 2 points each: 32 points.

Not to press the point too strongly, but why not dump the polics hips catagory?

SUMMARY:
Bob buys:
1 1000 meter shipyard: 130 points each for 130 points.
2 800 meter shipyards: 100 points each for 200 points.
7 200 meter shipyards: 70 points each for 490 points.
2 Imperial-II Star Destroyers: 12 points apiece for 48 points.
8 Victory-II Star Destroyers: 8 points apiece for 64 points
50 Gladiator Cruisers: 5 points apiece for 250 points.
4 Golan-III stations: 14 points each for 56 points.
5 Katana Dreadnoughts at 6 points apiece: 30 points (higer cost for non-Imperial design).
31 IPV-1 Patrol ships at 2 points each: 32 points.


Total: 1300 points. Bob broke even.

What about ground troops?


Finally, my apologise for the long post, and the pain that your eyes may have suffered reading it. However, it was that or a whole bunch of smaller posts, and I didn't feel like quadruple-posting.

And regarding mods for the game: I think its critical we have at least one, plus a backup if that one becomes suddenly unavailable. First, should the mod be a player, or someone "impartial" outside the game? (doubt anyone's going to care to run a game they're not involved in, though). Second, I feel that the mod should be someone who has time to post regularily and do the job, who has run something like this before, and has a fair knowledge of the EU. Ideally also someone who's been around a while and is fairly well known and respected. However, I don't know if their's anyone interested who fits those qualifications, so I guess whoever wants the job. (Just to be clear: I'm not trying to get out of doing any work myself. I simply recognize that I fit maybe one or two of the qualities I listed above, and thus am rather unsuited to help moderate this.)

Weather we do Star Trek or Star Wars however, and weather we use his rules or not, I would personally nominate Coyote if he's willing to do it.

[DarthShady]

I was bored so I went hunting to spacebattles. I found the rules thread, which includes ship prices. There is a lot of information there, it appears they have quite a complicated setup. Perhaps we could simplify our game a bit, change a few things to suit our needs. But using this as a starting point sure beats starting from scratch.

Also: Guys, could everyone who wants to play post what they voted for. So we don't get bunked RogueIce style.

[The Romulan Republic]

I abstained, as stated already, because I love both settings too much to choose between them.

Also, if we do Star Wars, I call Tatooine.

I'll just make a quick edit here as well to raise a couple questions that are bothering me? What about planetary defenses/ground troops? And more importantly, what about Jedi/telepaths? In my rather simple rule set, I said that they should be worth however many units they are able to control/destroy, but obviously all but extremely powerful ones would be worth less than one point. Is it just not a factor, or something to be roleplayed out but not delt with in rules (because I certainly wish to limit rules where possible).

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I'm perfectly willing to play in either setting, so whatever the rest of you choose, I'll gladly go along with it. However, the only problem I can see with a Star Wars STGOD is that I'd be significantly more limited in my equipment choices.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm perfectly willing to play in either setting, so whatever the rest of you choose, I'll gladly go along with it. However, the only problem I can see with a Star Wars STGOD is that I'd be significantly more limited in my equipment choices.

Fair enough; weapons tech tends to be more standardized and lack craziness like transporters. However, that might also make rules simpler and/or battles less confusing/likely to breakdown into technobable bickering.

Also, for those keeping count, we've got about 8 people now, so we're getting close to the minimum of ten mentioned earlier. So hopefully we can start as soon as we've worked out any issues with the rules.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I'm perfectly willing to play in either setting, so whatever the rest of you choose, I'll gladly go along with it. However, the only problem I can see with a Star Wars STGOD is that I'd be significantly more limited in my equipment choices.

Fair enough; weapons tech tends to be more standardized and lack craziness like transporters. However, tha might also make rules simpler and/or battles less confusing/likely to breakdown into technobable bickering.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of ship, starfighter, and speeder types. For instance, if I'm playing an independent faction and want to field Star Wars versions of the VF-25 Messiah outfitted with turbolasers and concussion missiles instead of just using Z-95 Headhunters, Howlrunners, or Cloakshapes, I should be allowed to do so.

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of ship, starfighter, and speeder types. For instance, if I'm playing an independent faction and want to field Star Wars versions of the VF-25 Messiah outfitted with turbolasers and concussion missiles instead of just using Z-95 Headhunters, Howlrunners, or Cloakshapes, I should be allowed to do so.

Yes, I'd prefer to allow custom ships. I can see the possible issues with determining the point value of custom ship relative to canon ships though. So I'm a bit conflicted on this point.

But that's not an issue with the Star Wars setting inherently. Only with particular sets of rules that ban custom ships.

[DarthShady]

Bringing in ships from other universes just complicates the rules, unnecessarily I might add. It's a Star Wars or Star Trek STGOD, there's plenty of ships to chose from in either setting, no need to import ships from other stuff. I see no problem with modifying existing ships though.

Also, for those keeping count, we've got about 8 people now, so we're getting close to the minimum of ten mentioned earlier. So hopefully we can start as soon as we've worked out any issues with the rules.

8 people and 12 votes. That's why I said everyone should post their choice.

[The Romulan Republic]

Bringing in custom ships just complicates the rules, unnecessarily I might add. It's a Star Wars or Star Trek STGOD, there's plenty of ships to chose from in either setting, no need to import ships from other stuff. I see no problem with modifying existing ships though.

True. Its not a big issue for me.

8 people and 12 votes. That's why I said everyone should post their choice.

To you people out their (you know who you are): stop messing up the poll!

[Karmic Knight]

8 people and 12 votes. :lol: That's why I said everyone should post their choice.

I voted for the Star Wars Option, as if this gets off the ground, and past a few rounds of arguments over the rules, I would likely jump in and see if I could join.

[DarthShady]

To you people out their (you know who you are): stop messing up the poll!

Fucking RogueIce and his army of poll breaking henchmen.

I voted for the Star Wars Option, as if this gets off the ground, and past a few rounds of arguments over the rules, I would likely jump in and see if I could join.

Yeah, but If you want to play it's nice to post and show your interest, otherwise you're just one of those guys. See above.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'll throw out another reason in favor of Star Wars: so far as I know, their aren't any maps of the Gamma Quadrant. At least their are plenty of maps of the Star Wars Galaxy we could use.