SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VIII

[Steve]

I was talking with him today, he said he no longer had forces in Costa (though that doesn't preclude a carrier group off the coast).

[Master_Baerne]

Stas, do you want to post something about you're visit to the Duchy?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I was talking with him today, he said he no longer had forces in Costa (though that doesn't preclude a carrier group off the coast).

He hasn't made a post noting the withdrawal then. But last I checked, that aircraft carrier group was off Costa.

[Steve]

I've already IMed him asking him to post a clarification of his forces in Frequesue.

Meanwhile I'm tempted to go ahead and have Czech's country, as an NPC, attempt that invasion of Tanvarika. But only because, in my bad mood, I feel the temptation to bomb something.

[K. A. Pital]

Stas, do you want to post something about you're visit to the Duchy?

You can post a start for our talk. Ask me whatever questions you like. I'll give my comments afterwards.

[Raj Ahten]

As for Siege, instead of going nasty over the Tian Xia base and talking about aiming missiles at Tian Jiao and such, you could see what price tag Tian Xia would put on scrapping that base. But nope, you're walking out and pretty much condemning yourself to having a MESS base straddling your vital line of communication between the two northern quadrants of Frequesue.

Well to back up my primary arms dealer (and old FTO comrade) here it appears that Tian Xia placed the new naval base simply to be provocative. If the NFT gives up something major why the hell wouldn't Tian Xia just do something similar later? Such power plays have certainly paid off for them in the past.

If I did things that way I'd be placing bases in the CFR and then offering to remove said bases if Tian Xia removed their fleet from the continent. (not a bad idea really.....)

edit: fixed a few typos

[RogueIce]

'Cause unless I've missed something the NFT ought to have the biggest orbital bomber fleet in the world by now.

Orbital bomber fleets? Stealth cruise missiles? Jesus, I'm glad we decided on a time slowdown. This is really getting into the realm of scifi here, moreso than political simulator.

Frankly it's about where I'm going to have to make some declaration that it is 'assumed' I keep up to date on stuff, without my having to explicitly post about it. Because keeping up with hypersonic this and orbital that is too much for poor little ol' me.

Though I'll have to agree with Wilkens, I believe it was. Nuking hell out of the MESSican nations (Christ why didn't we come up with a less retarded continent name?) probably can't be good for Alaska or Cascadia.

And on the subject of the Tian Xia carrier, how long has it supposedly been out there, anyway? If it's been six months or more one could probably assume it's left by now. I stopped trying to even say which of my carrier groups was on deployment awhile ago, because keeping up with that was a hassle. So I think we can apply some common sense here and say that it's probably not likely a carrier group is going to spend more than a year (if that) floating off the coast of [Wherever] nation.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

ERm.. the US has had a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk for a while. I believe it is called: AGM-129 ACM. Kh-101 is already in deployment. So there is nothing particularly new about these things. Even the SRAM had stealth.

[RogueIce]

ERm.. the US has had a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk for a while. I believe it is called: AGM-129 ACM. Kh-101 is already in deployment. So there is nothing particularly new about these things. Even the SRAM had stealth.

I'm not disputing whether the tech is viable. Just saying that it's getting out of my comfortable knowledge zone trying to keep up with it all (hence why I'm glad we slowed time - and thus technological development - down).

Though the orbital bombers/fighters/whatever is probably worse in that regard than stealth cruise missiles. I'm not a mil-tech geek. What can I say?

[K. A. Pital]

1) No one is speaking about "nuking all MESSICA nations!". Only maintaining a reasonable deterrent against a single memebr - Tian Xia. Other MESS members so far have shown no imperialist interests in Frequesue.

2) Reasonable deterrent can be assumed to be enough to strike several major Tian Xia cities; nothing more is needed. Of course, it's not intended to be a weapon of victory by the NFT against MESS; that's retarded.

3) Reasonable deterrent with currently deployed volumes of long-range cruise missiles can and is established already; maybe not with basic Toms (although in that case, the NFT can indiscriminately lob them against MESS cities in case it's attacked by the MESS), but more modern stuff (Kh-555, 101, upgraded Toms).

4) Orbital bombers are not really bombers, more like fighters. They can carry limited orbit-to-earth payloads. But in any case they are a normal development of technology. With everyone boasting AEW radars and ABM systems at every turn, orbitals and hypersonics are the most probable course of development.

5) Manned hypersonics are only in trial phase. They are tightly connected with the development of orbitals. So it's not like everyone is having huge armies of hypersonic craft, noes.

6) 5th generation aircraft has mostly replaced interceptor and ground fighter units in large world powers.

Nothing fantastic happened, or will happen in the future.

P.S. Comrade Stanislav will be making a series of political maps based on SDN World - from 2008 up to today - that would demonstrate the evolution of political alliances, rise and demise of powers, et cetera

[Siege]

Siege, RL diplomacy involves a lot of "reading between the lines", with diplomats, even statesmen, often not even saying outright what they want, and a lot of backroom dealing and vague conversationalism.

This is a world summit, not an off-the-books meeting between ambassadors. I expect people to state what they want. That's what the meeting is all about, and if they can't do that well that's too bad.

1) I never said anything about nuking you

Any war between any MESS nation and me will go nuclear in a heartbeat. I can't hope to defend myself conventionally, so there you go.

2) Ummm, you might have missed the entire X-20x series program which has been running for nearly a decade at this point

Which we've read precisely zero about for ages (apart from an OD remark that the X-20B program "petered out"). No weapons tests, no missile tests, no tests of newer aerospace vehicles, nothing. So where are these bombers of yours and what can they do?

3) How are you getting past the ridiculous net of IADS in Messamerica...oh AND do so without managing to destroy the watersheds of Alaska and Cascadia?

How much of that IADS can reach into low orbit? Bear in mind that my orbiters will be maneuvering. They're not coming in on a nice and simple ballistic trajectory. And do you honestly think I'd care overly much about collateral damage in case of GTW? I'd certainly try and minimize the damage to neutral nations but by the time the bombers are done the NFT will probably be a blazing, irradiated ruin, so it's a secondary concern at best.

4) If you've got the world's largest or even second largest orbital/sub-orbital bomber fleet then offhand I can say the rest of your forces should be getting more than a week in the field every year for the cost relative to GDP of maintaining said fleet.

So? The Rocket Forces get the bulk of the money, with the air force and the navy next (in that order) and the army gets what's left. It works for me.

So you literally would rather have everyone die than try to actually play a bit of diplomacy?

Okay, I admit that was a bit of an exaggeration, but I haven't exactly made it a secret that Tian Xia irritates me to no end, and given his recent behavior your ally is fine with that. And "a bit of diplomacy"? Have you been following the same summit as me? The NFT's been accused of all kinds of inane things, and when we put a point on the table it's wiped off instantly. There's no diplomacy here. It's all bluster and a massive waste of time.

[Lonestar]

Orbital bomber fleets? Stealth cruise missiles? Jesus, I'm glad we decided on a time slowdown. This is really getting into the realm of scifi here, moreso than political simulator.

Stealthy cruise missiles are perfectly acceptable(Stas used 'em to toast Shep). I'll even buy the Silver Streak stuff, although the 6 or so X-20B stretches are comparable to the silver streak, not to mention the staggering amount of more conventional bombers more than make up for any adverse correlation of forces. The Mach 3.3 bomber the OD and Tian Xia are starting to operate (the B-3) is still much cheaper to operate than the Silver Streak.

[K. A. Pital]

Yup, these Kh-101s have seen use and are now not in limited service, but fully installed on most or all systems of the UCSR, replacing the Kh-55/555 generation of ALCMs. We in the CATO operate the Mach 3+ supersonic LO T-4MS bomber as a matter of fact, although we haven't fully shifted to it from the Tu-160M.

That aside, SND World evolution 2008-2010 (start game to Pathogen War, economic crisis and BIOCOM):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37721293@N ... 048017051/

[Lonestar]

That aside, SND World evolution 2008-2010 (start game to Pathogen War, economic crisis and BIOCOM):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37721293@N ... 048017051/

Why did you erase Augustine(Florida) and Kitterridge from the map?

[DarthShady]

You know, at this point CATO and MESS deserve the opportunity to nuke each other into oblivion. You're all acting like petulant children at the summit. We were actually making progress with the Byzantine proposal, supported by Canissia, when you all suddenly decided to exchange a few more barbs and then start walking out of the summit.

Yeah, I wonder who started that?

It is apparent that the MESS has a big problem, they can't agree between themselves on what they want. Coyote calls for peace and the UN, Beo goes on with accusations and shit. Frankly it's irritating me greatly. What is even more irritating is the fact that instead of reigning in their loose cannons the rest of the MESS is quite content in backing them up or staying quiet. Well fuck that, I'm done trying to accomplish things with one MESS member only to have another one continue playing the asshole game.

Now, as for Shady: We implemented both unreal time and a slower time progression in-game to accommodate this summit and yet you walk out because nobody's posted a reply to the summit in a few days? A lot of us have lives outside of this game as well as other stories we want to tell in the game, it is unfair for you to decide that because a full response of some sort isn't issued by such and such time the summit is "dragging on".

Well it has become apparent that people prefer poking the smaller members of CATO instead of talking to me. I noticed Beo's little hints about Livorno and I was waiting for him to approach me, but nothing happened. Frankly I'm laughing my ass off here. Instead of approaching me he goes off on Siege, which makes zero sense.

Calling people pissant nations is not going to get anyone on my good side. If we can't respect one another OOC, then there is no point discussing anything IC.

As for the rest, Stas and the rest of my Comrades have made thing pretty clear there.

EDIT: Awesome maps Stas.

[Lonestar]

Calling people pissant nations is not going to get anyone on my good side. If we can't respect one another OOC, then there is no point discussing anything IC.

Oh come on. That's how the real world works. I ahve a coworker who was a WH switchboard operator when she was in the Army, and she says there were times when leaders of foriegn nations and Bush would really go at it with each other.

(One of 'em may or may not have been Pooty-poo )

[Siege]

The "white male oligarchy" of San Dorado, whose Executive Board at this point in time is 75 percent female, and which is lead by a female President. Ah, you can always trust the lunatics of the Old Dominion to provide some A-grade comic relief .

[DarthShady]

Oh come on. That's how the real world works. I ahve a coworker who was a WH switchboard operator when she was in the Army, and she says there were times when leaders of foriegn nations and Bush would really go at it with each other.

(One of 'em may or may not have been Pooty-poo )

I'm not opposed to such things IC, it adds flare to the game; provided people don't overdo it. It's just that doing it OOC, is an insult to other players. And we're all here to have fun, not argue endlessly about stupid things, while throwing insults at others.

Pooty-poo?

[Lonestar]

The "white male oligarchy" of San Dorado, whose Executive Board at this point in time is 75 percent female, and which is lead by a female President. Ah, you can always trust the lunatics of the Old Dominion to provide some A-grade comic relief .

Well, with a name like 'The Monthly Visitor', what can you expect?

[Beowulf]

I was talking with him today, he said he no longer had forces in Costa (though that doesn't preclude a carrier group off the coast).

He hasn't made a post noting the withdrawal then. But last I checked, that aircraft carrier group was off Costa.

With the cessation of hostilities between Baerne and Costa and the rebels, and the installation of the peacekeeping force, the carriers were no longer necessary. After all, they were there to "assure air sovereignty". No one is seriously threatening that after the peacekeepers showed up.

ERm.. the US has had a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk for a while. I believe it is called: AGM-129 ACM. Kh-101 is already in deployment. So there is nothing particularly new about these things. Even the SRAM had stealth.

The AGM-129 is not a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk. It can't be launched from surface or subsurface ships. It also has no non nuclear role.

3) How are you getting past the ridiculous net of IADS in Messamerica...oh AND do so without managing to destroy the watersheds of Alaska and Cascadia?

How much of that IADS can reach into low orbit? Bear in mind that my orbiters will be maneuvering. They're not coming in on a nice and simple ballistic trajectory. And do you honestly think I'd care overly much about collateral damage in case of GTW? I'd certainly try and minimize the damage to neutral nations but by the time the bombers are done the NFT will probably be a blazing, irradiated ruin, so it's a secondary concern at best.

There's only so much manuevering you can do before your orbiters run out of delta-V. Incoming trajectories are limited by that same constraint. Given that the cheap part of the IADS is the missiles, there should be enough to not only toss at where the prediction says you should be, but also into the vicinity of where you can manuever. As for how much can reach into low orbit? Quite a bit.

Okay, I admit that was a bit of an exaggeration, but I haven't exactly made it a secret that Tian Xia irritates me to no end, and given his recent behavior your ally is fine with that. And "a bit of diplomacy"? Have you been following the same summit as me? The NFT's been accused of all kinds of inane things, and when we put a point on the table it's wiped off instantly. There's no diplomacy here. It's all bluster and a massive waste of time.

I'm not opposed to such things IC, it adds flare to the game; provided people don't overdo it. It's just that doing it OOC, is an insult to other players. And we're all here to have fun, not argue endlessly about stupid things, while throwing insults at others.

Sorry, I let my frustration get the better of me when Siegetank went "Remove your N. F-ing base, or else." Of course, there was nothing stopping you from interjecting with a proposal.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The AGM-129 is not a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk. It can't be launched from surface or subsurface ships. It also has no non nuclear role.

Eh? This says otherwise: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-129.html

[Beowulf]

The AGM-129 is not a stealthy replacement for the Tomahawk. It can't be launched from surface or subsurface ships. It also has no non nuclear role.

Eh? This says otherwise: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-129.html

Nowhere on that page does it say Tomahawk or xGM-109. AGM-129 is a replacement for the ALCM. Of course, the CALCM is still going strong, while the ACM is being retired.

[DarthShady]

Sorry, I let my frustration get the better of me when Siegetank went "Remove your N. F-ing base, or else." Of course, there was nothing stopping you from interjecting with a proposal.

Dude the whole thing could have been avoided, if you had just approached me directly. We can still work things out.

I believe Stas mentioned what we want from you, in exchange for removing our Livorno base.

[Siege]

There's only so much manuevering you can do before your orbiters run out of delta-V.

My orbiters are mounted on Lucrelance III series rockets with a restartable maneuvering upper stage which gives them all the delta-V they could possibly need and then some. And then there's the ordinance itself which will come screaming down at hypersonic speeds atop its own missiles. I wish you good luck with your defenses.

EDIT:

Sorry, I let my frustration get the better of me when Siegetank went "Remove your N. F-ing base, or else."

What is it, can't take your own damned medicine?

[K. A. Pital]

Why did you erase Augustine(Florida) and Kitterridge from the map?

I didn't, but if those were small islands or border regions they might have just been lost when I did new coloring of the territories.