Millenium falcon vs White Star -clarification

[zivalican_elite]

Quite some time ago (several years!) there was a thread about how the Millennium Falcon stacks up against the White Star.
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2383
This was about all I could find that was an actual discussion on how the two face off.

There weren't any conclusive answers, just alot of "I'm right, your wrong and stupid" kind of arguments...I didn't really see any actual figures on the top speeds of the Millennium falcon and the White Star.

From what I can tell (from the searches I did), the Millennium Falcon has a maximum (non hyperspace speed) of 250 m/s.

The white star's top speed is a little more...erm...unknown/incosistent between the B5 sites I have found.

One of the technical sites for Babylon 5 that is considered to be more 'conservitive' than B5Tech manual suggests the following: (located at: http://www.babtech-onthe.net/alliance/w ... #firepower)
"
In War Without End, the original Whitestar was in pursuit of several Shadow fighters that were carrying a large fusion bomb toward Babylon 4. The Shadows were approximately 3,000 kilometers from the station according to Lennier's sensors, but were not within "blast range" of the station yet (the range at which the bomb could damage the station). After several minutes of pursuit at the Whitestar's maximum rate of acceleration, the Whitestar had not yet closed to within firing range, as Marcus stated that the Shadow vessels were "still out of optimum range of the automatic systems."

The Shadows entered "blast range" of the station at approximately the same time the Whitestar entered this "blast range." Thus the Whitestar was approximately the same distance from the bomb as the Babylon 4 station was. The bomb was still not in range of the Whitestar's targeting systems, so Ivonova continued firing on manual control. After several attempts, she hit the bomb, which detonated. The detonation of the bomb damaged Sheridan's "time-stabilizer" device, and disrupted the station's sensors.

Since the bomb was not within blast range of the station at 3,000 kilometers, and the blast range of the bomb was greater than the Whitestar's weapons range, the Whitestar's maximum weapons range (for accurate targeting) must be less than 3,000 kilometers.

"

So based on this, assuming if it is true, I think it is safe to say that the white star would have a maximum speed of over 1000 Km/h (being as how it was able to travel somewhat close to optimal firing range (less than 3000 km) in a few minutes (less than an hour), which translates to about 270m/s .

Clearly the White Star is comparable to the Millennium Falcon in terms of sub-light/non-hyperspace speed. It may even be twice as fast I really don't know though. It is difficult to determine this when there is so much misinformation out there.

One thing is for certain though. The white star is far more maneuverable (in terms of proportion). The White Star can do 'strafing' runs and can turn 180 degrees in 2 seconds. It has the capability to 'glide' (Face a target behind itself, fire, and return to the direction it was facing without losing much speed/momentum).
here is a good example: (at about 1:05 and 1:13 you will see what I mean)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dalydgg0 ... re=related

The Millennium falcon may be able to make tighter turns, but I somehow doubt its ability to 'strafe' or 'glide'.
Does it have as good of thrusters as the White Star?

Maneuverability is more than just turns, banks, and how small of a space you can fit through.

What is the officially accepted maximum weapons range of the White Star? Less than 3000Km? More than 1000Km? 1000m?
Additionally, what is the Millennium Falcon's maximum weapon range? Lasers? Missiles? Other weapons?

So I would like some clarification on this. Please provide me with actual sources if you can. I think that this topic should be revisited.

Personally, I think the White Star would wipe the floor with the Falcon. It has self-healing armor (slow but effective), some kind of shields (at least Wikipedia says so...), incorporates Vorlon and Minbari technology, can completely change its direction much faster, and has actually exited hyperspace within an atmosphere (on mars, during the episode, 'Endgame')
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame_(Babylon_5)
Is the Millennium falcon even capable of being that precise given exact coordinates?


Prove me wrong if you can.
Looking forward to the can of worms this may open up...don't take it personal ^_^
-Thanks in advance

[Darth Wong]

From what I can tell (from the searches I did), the Millennium Falcon has a maximum (non hyperspace speed) of 250 m/s.

Precisely what do you think happens in the vacuum of space if the Falcon is already doing 250 m/s and it fires its thrusters? Just how little physics do you know?

PS. Are you old enough to ride a Go-Kart without being accompanied by a parent or guardian?

[Ghost Rider]

Prove you wrong?!

Are you even going to do something that isn't piecemeal bastard research and going "I LIK B5!!!"? You give a few vague allusions of range, nothing on weapon strength, and your presumptions on speed and then you want us to fill the holes?

Fuck proving you wrong, dipshit...you're going to prove something more substantional then your say so. If not, this goes the way of many other threads.

[Darth Wong]

Now now, don't be too harsh. I would be surprised if he's even hit puberty yet.

[Ghost Rider]

Now now, don't be too harsh. I would be surprised if he's even hit puberty yet.

Fine, fine...we'll just wait and see if he can put two and two together and pat him on the head when he goes "FOUR!" .

[Adrian Laguna]

The Millennium falcon may be able to make tighter turns, but I somehow doubt its ability to 'strafe' or 'glide'.

Why? The space shuttle can do it.






In fact, any object capable of manoeuvring in space can do it. It's an intrinsic property of matter called "momentum", which is described in Newton's motion equations.

[Sky Captain]

There is no such thing as top speed in space (in fact there is it`s called c, but in this case it does`t matter), all that matters is acceleration and deltaV. Ship which can only reach ~1000 km/h could not even break orbit of a planet not to mention things like taking of from surface and high energy combat maneuvers. Spaceships as advanced as Falcon or Whitestar should be capable of accelerating to and decelerating from significant fractions of c without too much trouble.

[pj1351]

Some quotes from the NJO book "Destiny's Way".

"Ten seconds," Han told Leia and Dorja, and reached for the triggers to the concussion missile tubes.

Anticipation drew a metallic streak down his tongue. He felt a prickle of sweat on his scalp.

"Five." He triggered the first pair of concussion missiles, knowing that, unlike the laser cannon, they did not strike at the speed of light.

"Two." Han triggered another pair of missiles. The Millennium Falcon's engines howled as they fought the pull of the dovin basal's gravity.

"Fire." The dovin basal swept past, and suddenly the display lit with the six approaching coralskippers. The combined power of the eight turbolasers fired straight at them.

The six coralskippers had also split into two Vs of three craft each, the formations on slightly diverging courses, but both formations were running into the Falcon and her armament at a combined velocity of better than 90 percent of the speed of light. None of them had shifted their dovin basals to warp space defensively ahead of them, and the pilots had only an instant to perceive the doom staring them in the face, and no time to react. The first vic ran right into the first pair of missiles and the turbolaser fire, and all three erupted in fire as their coral hulls shattered into fragments.

The next thing he knew plasma cannon projectiles of molten rock were cracking against Falcon's shields, and there was a blinding flash dead ahead as the first pair of concussion missiles found a target. Han's heart throbbed as coral debris pounded on the deflectors, bounded off like multicolored sparks. There was a flicker on the displays as another coralskipper flashed past at a converging speed somewhere close to that of light, too fast for Han's eye to track it.

Granted, both the Falcon and the coralskippers were using a dovin basal's gravitational singularity to help them slingshot around, but they were also freely pulling away and diving back towards it to make their attacks.

[TheLostVikings]

Uhh, maybe I'm dense here, but why exactly would the Falcon even need to "glide" in the first place? There is plenty of scenes in the original trilogy of them firing at stuff directly behind them without having to turn the ship itself around at all. One of the advantages of the guns being mounted on rotating turrets and all, so having to physically turn the entire ship around just to fire backwards doesn't exactly sound like an advantage to me, in fact quite the contrary...

[Darth Yoshi]

It's not like Star Wars ships can't do it—an X-wing flips around so that it's flying backwards to take out a TIE in one of Stackpole's books.

[Themightytom]

Crap! I voted wrong because the questionw as worded poorly. I thought the question was whether each ship performed better in combat as portrayed in their respective universe, not in a vs. situation. i mean ultiamtely the millenium Falcon IS a freighter, MF vs SW military= meh. White Star vs. B5 Verse military= hot shit amongst younger races, and a flock of them can take down a vorlon listening post.

Personally, I think the White Star would wipe the floor with the Falcon. It has self-healing armor (slow but effective), some kind of shields (at least Wikipedia says so...), incorporates Vorlon and Minbari technology, can completely change its direction much faster, and has actually exited hyperspace within an atmosphere (on mars, during the episode, 'Endgame')
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame_(Babylon_5)

So... that link goes nowhere...
And it doesn't say what you claim it does...

John Sheridan launches a final battle to liberate Earth.

After Sheridan was freed during the course of the episode Between the Darkness and the Light, he returned to the fleet he had assembled. When President-turned-dictator Morgan Clark had sent a group of advanced Omega-class destroyers that were merged with Shadow technology to trap and destroy Sheridan's fleet, Commander Susan Ivanova had led a fleet of the highly advanced White Star warships into battle with Clark's upgraded destroyers. In a fierce battle she had destroyed all of the Shadow-enhanced warships. However, Ivanova was mortally injured in the process, and as the episode begins she has only a few days left to live. She asked Sheridan to take command of the EAS Agamemnon, his old ship, for the final battle. Captain James of the Agamemnon agreed with this request, so Sheridan took command and ordered the fleet to set course for Mars.

Sheridan's fleet had two main targets. They had the thirty-five ships Clark assembled at Mars, and the automated defense platforms in orbit around Earth. Sheridan knew he had to deal with the ships at Mars first, otherwise his fleet would probably be trapped between the loyalist ships and the defense platforms. So he decided to use thirty telepaths modified by the Shadows that Sheridan discovered in the episode Ship of Tears. He knew that the telepaths would merge with the computers of these ships, and would disable the ships in the process. These telepaths were smuggled onboard Clark's ships by the Mars resistance. General Robert Lefcourt was designated the mission commander, because he knew and taught Sheridan back at the EarthForce Academy, and he took command of the EAS Apollo. Lefcourt was there to fight on the principle of the matter, rather than any personal loyalty to Clark. Lefcourt believed that soldiers were not to take arms against their own government, and that Sheridan's forces had to be stopped because of this. Despite his devotion to his duty, he said he wished he hadn't lived long enough to see the day when he would have to fire on his fellow soldiers.

The attack at Mars began when Michael Garibaldi provided exact jump coordinates to a White Star commanded by Marcus Cole. The ship jumped into the atmosphere, and began attacking ground based targets. When some of the loyalist ships began turning around to respond, Lefcourt ordered them to maintain position. He knew the ground attack was a diversion, and that Sheridan would want his forces backed up against the planet. Sheridan's fleet jumped into the space above Mars, just as Lefcourt had predicted. Lefcourt was about to order his ships to attack when the Apollo and most of the other loyalist ships were disabled. The telepaths had managed to merge with the computer systems of these ships and disabled them in the process. The remaining ships were quickly disabled by Sheridan's fleet. Having disabled the fleet at Mars, Sheridan directed some ships to remain behind and keep an eye on the destroyers. The remaining vessels left for Earth.

On the Apollo, the crew soon found and killed the telepath who had merged with the computer. However it took some time to get the ship up and running again, despite Lefcourt's threat to go down to engineering and "skin the hides" of the entire engineering crew. Finally the crew regained control of their ship, and departed for Earth. Lefcourt soon learned that Clark had committed suicide before he could be arrested, and that Clark had turned the defense platforms towards Earth - which would have destroyed 40% of the planet's surface. The Apollo arrived at Earth to find the one remaining platform preparing to fire on Earth, and the damaged Agamemnon set to ram the platform. Lefcourt had the Apollo fire upon and destroy the last platform. With the danger over he welcomed Sheridan home.

I should have just gone to another page when I noticed you ended the post with a stupid anime face.

[Batman]

As this is likely going to go nowhere fast I might as well throw in my 2c worth.
1. The MF's best realspace speed being 250mps. Nice of Tarkin to wait several days before deciding to open fire so Han could get there in time to cover Luke's back (or for the fighters, which apparently weren't massively faster, to get there to attack the Death Star to begin with)
2. The White Star's best realspace speed being 270mps. Wow. Mars and Jupiter must be a LOT closer together than I was taught, what with the White Star NOT taking over a century to get from one to the other in 'Matters of Honor'.
3. The ability to 'strafe' doesn't say BEANS about maneuverability what with it meaning nothing more than to attack a ground/relatively stationary target from an aircraft/maneuvering vehicle. Modern day civilian airliners could strafe a target if they were armed.
4. Contrary to what some computer games say, the ability to turn on the spot is NOT called 'gliding'. It's called 'turning on the spot', 'rotating' or 'spinning'. And not only, as has already been pointed out, is EVERY spacecraft intrinsically capable of doing so, Wars craft CANONICALLY are.

[Havok]

Wow. I mean, did you see the turn on a dime manuever the Falcon made in TESB, diving away from the Star Destroyers? How about dodging through the asteroid field after that? Flying through the bowels of the DSII in ROTJ No? None of that ring a bell? Just what exactly is your criteria for maneuverability?

Well at least he didn't necro the thread from 2002 and used the search function.

[Stark]

Y'know, guys, I think you all just got trolled.

[Batman]

Of course we were. I don't think anybody in this thread ever expected this to result in actual reasonable debate. As we all KNOW this that means we shouldn't take whatever amusement we can from it why?

[Stark]

No I mean proper trolled, as in this thread was created simply to stir up nerdrage, not soft-trolled ie he's just stupid. He even appeared in chat and tried to stir up a similarly braindead SG/SW troll discussion.

[Havok]

No I mean proper trolled, as in this thread was created simply to stir up nerdrage, not soft-trolled ie he's just stupid. He even appeared in chat and tried to stir up a similarly braindead SG/SW troll discussion.

Oh that douche... Shit man, you may be right.

[Oskuro]

Y'know, guys, I think you all just got trolled.

Allow me to provide proof of Stark's assertion:

<snip> It has self-healing armor (slow but effective), some kind of shields (at least Wikipedia says so...) <snip>

[Ghost Rider]

No shit, really?

Oh well, the way of such threads it goes.