Renegade Legion Leviathan Analysis thread

[Andras]

Escorts may carry 4 bays... They may carry a Type A spinal moutn and up to 24 fighters in any configuration.

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Corvettes may not carry any laser larger than a 7.5/6 in a turret and may carry only two turrets. They may carry two bays.... They may not carry a spinal mount and may carry up to 6 fighters.

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Gunboats may not carry any laser larger than a 7.5/6 in a turret and may only carry two turrets. They may not carry any bays, spinal mount, or fighters.

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Fighters may not carry any laser larger than a 7.5/6 and may carry only two turrets. They may not carry a bay or spinal mount.

Limitaitons on vehicle design in Leviathan. Not sure to waht extent this is all gameplay or not though.

Carriers have weapons restricitons baed on their class size. On carriers of destroyer size or greater, one-third of the ship's power must be dvoted to fighter operations and may not be spent on weapons or maneuver drives.

Fighter load limits are based on carrier class as follows:

Destroyer: 2 groups

Frigate: 1 Wing

Cruiser 3 Wings (This exceeds a cruiser's limit, so a cruiser with more than 5,000 bay factors - out of 5,400 BF max - allocated to fighters could carry only turret weapons.
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Battleships: 5 wings (Rumors of larger carriers exist)

Weapon loads are based on the power and the remaining Bay Factors. Carriers may not carry spinal mounts, and the bay size is limited to 50 guns.

Limitation sof the carrier diesgn, and the numbers of fighters they carry. Note the "rumors of larger carriers" existing bit.

Yet if you actually look at the Interceptor construction rules, there's no restriction on how many fighters an Escort or Corvette may carry. I've a design that holds 12 fighters. When a Capital ship carries small craft, each small craft counts the same as a fighter. So one could simply carry small craft instead of fighters, and thence multiply your actual fighter capacity by 6, 12, or 24 depending on what small craft you have.

[Connor MacLeod]

Bay weapons and othe rweapons. Next up, missiles and such

These [bays] strructures house from 10 to 100 weapons of the same type. They all use the same fire-control sytem and all fire at the same target. Bays are very good at hitting slow targets. It is sometimes difficult for them to track quick targets or targets that can change directions easily, such as fighters. The size of a bay and the size of the weapons in the bay are limited by ship class. A gunboat 50 meters long cannot mount a bay with 100 lasers that are each 37.5 meters long and 30 centimeters in diameter.

Description of bay weapons, the variation in number of guns, and how they are connected/operate. Basically its like age of sail broadsides, maybe with a bit more tracking/targeting. Interestingly there is some hint/mention of turreted anti-ship wepaons, so it may be a matter of tradeoffs. (turrets have more coverage, but a fixed axis mount is probably less complex, easier to brace, and may be smaller volume-wise.)

An interesting implication in this is that you might be able to scale based on the bays in osme manner if you could identify them. (though even then.. the bays are going to be insanely small relative to the entire ship...

10 weapon bays
Bay Range Power Tons
37.5/30 3000 30000
37.5/25 2500 22000
37.5/20 1600 16000
37.5/15 1100 11000
37.5/10 700 7000
37.5/5 400 4000

30/30 2650 18550
30/25 1950 13650
30/20 1400 9800
30/15 950 6650
30/10 600 4200
30/5 350 2450

22.5/30 2200 8800
22.5/25 1600 6400
22.5/20 1150 4600
22.5/15 800 3200
22.5/10 500 2000
22.5/5 300 1200

15/30 1900 3800
15/25 1400 2800
15/20 1000 2000
15/15 700 1400
15/10 450 900
15/5 250 500

7.5/30 1500 1500
7.5/25 1100 1100
7.5/20 800 800
7.5/15 550 550
7.5/10 350 350
7.5/6 230 230

The various "capital ship" weapons and their masses and power requirements. This is largely for informative puproses. Like capital ship ower levels, I don't really trust them as an accurate measure of anything, since they are scaled to the capital ship power levels. They may be useful in a relative sense, though. Maybe/ These are the 10 gun bays.

25 weapon bays
Bay Range Power Tons
37.5/30 7500 75000
37.5/25 5500 55000
37.5/20 4000 40000
37.5/15 2750 27500
37.5/10 1750 17500
37.5/5 1000 10000

30/30 6625 46375
30/25 4875 34125
30/20 3500 24500
30/15 2375 16625
30/10 1500 10500
30/5 875 6125

22.5/30 5500 22000
22.5/25 4000 16000
22.5/20 2875 11500
22.5/15 2000 8000
22.5/10 1250 5000
22.5/5 750 3000

15/30 4750 9500
15/25 3500 7000
15/20 2500 5000
15/15 1750 3500
15/10 1125 2250
15/5 625 1250

7.5/30 3750 3750
7.5/25 2750 2750
7.5/20 2000 2000
7.5/15 1375 1375
7.5/10 875 875
7.5/6 575 575

25 gun bays.

50 weapon bays
Bay Range Power Tons
37.5/30 15000 150000
37.5/25 11000 110000
37.5/20 8000 80000
37.5/15 5500 55000
37.5/10 3500 35000
37.5/5 2000 20000

30/30 13250 92750
30/25 9750 68250
30/20 7000 49000
30/15 4750 33250
30/10 3000 21000
30/5 1750 12250

22.5/30 11000 44000
22.5/25 8000 32000
22.5/20 5750 23000
22.5/15 4000 16000
22.5/10 2500 10000
22.5/5 1500 6000

15/30 9500 19000
15/25 7000 14000
15/20 5000 10000
15/15 3500 7000
15/10 2250 4500
15/5 1250 2500

7.5/30 7500 7500
7.5/25 5500 5500
7.5/20 4000 4000
7.5/15 2750 2750
7.5/10 1750 1750
7.5/6 1150 1150

50 gun bays.

100 weapon bays
Bay Range Power Tons
37.5/30 30000 300000
37.5/25 22000 220000
37.5/20 16000 160000
37.5/15 11000 110000
37.5/10 7000 70000
37.5/5 4000 40000

30/30 26500 185500
30/25 19500 136500
30/20 14000 98000
30/15 9500 66500
30/10 6000 42000
30/5 3500 24500

22.5/30 22000 88000
22.5/25 16000 64000
22.5/20 11500 46000
22.5/15 8000 32000
22.5/10 5000 20000
22.5/5 3000 12000

15/30 19000 38000
15/25 14000 28000
15/20 10000 20000
15/15 7000 14000
15/10 4500 9000
15/5 2500 5000

7.5/30 15000 15000
7.5/25 11000 11000
7.5/20 8000 8000
7.5/15 5500 5500
7.5/10 3500 3500
7.5/6 2300 2300

100 gun bays.

Frigates and larger vessels can mount two bays that fire forward and two that fire aft.

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These classes may mount two bays on each side, forward or aft sections of the ship This means taht each side of the hsip may house four bays, and each end of the ship may mount two bays.

A destroyer can carry one bay on each end and two on each side.

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Escorts can carry two bays on each side but none on the ends. Corvettes may mount one bay on each side.

Bay mounting requirements, in terms of numbers and locations.

[Connor MacLeod]

Most capital ships can carry and launch missiles. THese weapons are several times the size of missiles carried by fighters an do correspondingly more damage. These weapons can penetrate a Leviathan's shields, something fighter missiles could never do.

These missiles weigh many tons. Mopst ships can launch one swarm of such missiles per turn. Each ship may carry only one missile system...

Comparison between fighter missiels and capital msises, as well as a vague estimate on mass (no idea how many tons "many" is, other tan being more than 2 tons, and no idea how many per salvo.) It is interesting to note they (somehow) can penetrate shields (the reason why isnt given) and there is an implication that there is no tmuch difference firepower wise between capital ship and fighter missiles (unless we're talking a particular kind of missile, or "several" is interpreted loosely.)

Missile A = 2 shots Tonnage 2000
Missile B = 1 shot, tonnage 1500
Missile C = 1 shot, tonnage 3000
Missile D = 3 shots, tonnage 10000
Missile E = 3 shots tonnage 15000
Missile F = 2 shots tonnage 7000
Missile G = 3 shots tonnage 6000

Missile "loads" (per slavo) and the tonnage of the launchers.

turrets are used mainly agianst fighters and missiles. Each ship class mounts bristling arrays of turrets....

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Smaller ships mounting weapons with a diameter larger than 6 may mount only one weapon in the turret instead of the five normally allowed.

Anti-fighter weaponry. Rather curious that they are "mostly" used against fighter scale targets, when we know fighters (oddly) can damage capital ships. I'm not sure what the "diameter larger than 6" means though, except it indicates that fighter scal eweapons can vary in size and power (And htus mount fewer weapons) - presumably this refers to corvette and other patrol class ships

Shields are a vital part of the defenses of any ship. With their massive power generation, capital ships can achieve some awesome shield flicker rates. Even battleships cannot maintain these extreme levels and still maneuver and fire their weapons.

Dual implications here - capital ships can achieve flicker rates greater than fighters/corvettes (and quite likely tanks), especially if diverting power from other systems. It also confirms that you CAN divert power from other systems.

We still arne't sure how shields consume power, where that power goes (since it has to go somewhere) or why. It may have to do with the flicker rate thingy (which means that alot of power gets radiated into space, making RL ships highly detectable in realspace.)

The Shiva is a fine example of the efficient and powerful new designs to come out of TOG naval construction yards in receent years.

"years" would seem to imply a fairly rapid construction rate (as opposed to "decades") but this isn't a precise estimate.

Ship designers chose six 25 gun 37.5/25 bays mounted around the ship and 50-gun 22.5/5 bays providing fore/aft protection. The mainb broadside power comes from four 100-gun 37.5/20 bays.

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The Class E spinal mount throws the largets crowbar in any navy...

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The Shiva was designed by the TOG Naval Planning Board and is being built at many yards throughout TOG. It is seen as a mainstay ship for many years to come.

A bit on the design features and firepower/capabilities of the Shiva.

Shiva Class Battleship: 2.75 km long,
Mass 4,212,757 tons
Right/Left/middle engine ratings: 50,000 each (150,000 total)

Fighters: 72 Small craft 12 Crew: 2717 PAssengers 200 Marines 500

As well as above weapons, Type G missile system.

Shiva's stats, including the length. Note the mass is probably off. I'll give better stats in the capital ship birefing mainly cuz I'm lazy now. One can scale the Shiva's ship volume from the length given, and derive a mass figure, depending on the densities you use. Generally I get a figure 100-1000x greater, and I incline towards the latter because I tend to assume a very dense starship hull and thick hull plating. (on the basis of the apparently insane durability they have, being able to last hours or more in sustained combat.) Recoil is another possible consideraiton, as the lower accelerations would necessitate greater masses to handle the recoil of starship weapons (and so as not to kill the crews with sudden acceleration.)

[Connor MacLeod]

In abeyance for nearly a month... again apologies... I'm almost done with Leviathan though. Mostly some more minor techie stuff to finish up and then I'll probably start Centurion. After that... maybe LEgionnaire, since I like that one the most. Then probably Prefect. Then I'll just take it as my fancy wishes.

Oh yes, with the kind help of Azazel I have pretty much gotten the Leviathan Capital Ship briefing done. Lots of info there I was hoping for, so I want to just thank him for his assistance.

The Syracuse was designed to mount the largest bay weapon system on the smallest hull and still have a viable ship. Deemed a failure by most critics, the two 100-gun 37.5/30 laser bays still command repsect from any opponent. Though one of the smaller cruiser designs in the fleet, the Syracuse is usually in the main line of battle because of its firepower.

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Syracuse class cruisers are found mostly in provincial units, built only by third and fourth rate worlds trying to meet their naval supportt quotas.

The Syracuse cruiser's armaments and the mention of "provincial fleets" and "third/fourth" rate worlds trying ot meet naval support quotas. This tends to suggest invidiual worlds/systems are cpaable of building at least some kinds of starships and are required to do so on a fairly consistent basis.

Syracuse stats

Length: 2 km, Mass: 1,627,276 tons
Engine power: 28,000 left/right, 29000 center (85000 total)

weapons: class B spinal mount, 2 100-gun 37.5/30 bays, 2 50 22.5/10 bays, type G missile system.

Fighters: 72 Small craft: 8 Crew 1,665 Passengers 200 Marines 200

Syracuse stats.

Best as an anti-fighter platform, the Bantha has four 50-gun 15/30 laser bays that can deliver quite a punch at close range. As a very cost-effective design, Banthas enjoy wide deployment in all arms of the fleet. As a fairly inexpensive ship, the Bantha is built just about everywhere.

Description of the Bantha frigate.

Bantha-clas frigate:
1.25 km long, mass: 966,620 tons

engine power: 25,000 Right/left/center (75000 units)

Weapons: class b spinal mount, 4 25-gun 37.5/20 bays, 4 50 gun 15/30 bays.

fighters: 48 Small craft: 4 Crew 931 Passengers 121 Marines: 200

Bantha stats.

Fulgur-class destrtoyer
1 km long Mass 765,033 tons

Engine power: 13,000 right/left, 14,000 center (40,000 total)

WEapons - class A spinal mount, 2 50 gun 30/30 bays, 4 10-gun 37.5/10 bays, type A missile system.

Fghters: 24, small craft 2 Crew 667 PAssengers: 100 Marines 100

Has anti-grav drives and streamlining for atmosphere.

Fulgur-class destroyer stats.

Serpens class destroyer

.9 km long, 540,775 tons

engine power: 13,000 left/right, ,14,000 center (40,000 total)

Weapons: Class a spinal mount, six 50 gun 15/20 gun bays, Type G missile system

Fighters: 24 Small craft: 2, Crew: 482 Passengers 100 Marines 100


Extras: a nti grav drive and streamlining for atmsophere.[

Serpens class destroyer stats.

This frigate class carrier [Xerex] transports a full wing of fighters into battle.

Carrying capacity for a frigate-scale carrier.

Xerxes-class Frigate carrier

Mass 872,008 tons, 1.75 km long

Engines: LEft/right 17,000 center 16,000 - 50,000 total.

Weapns 5 50 gun 30/5 bays, 1 10gun 30/5 bay

Fighters: 360 small craft 6 Crew: 2016 Passengers 92 Marines 300.

Stats of the Xerxes frigate carrier.

Repulse-class battleship

2.5 km long, 2,393,570 tons

Engines: 40,000 right/left/center

weapons: class D spinal mount, 4 100 gun 37.5/5 bays, 4 50 gun 37.5/30 bays, 2 25 gun 22.5/15 gun bays, type E missiles.

Fighters: 144 Small craft: 10 Crew 2368 Passengers 50 marines 300

Stats of a Repulse class Battleship..

Original designs mounted considerably more armaments, but field trials showed enormous problems with the power distribution and supply systems as well as with the structural integrity of the ship. Several bays were reduced in size, giving the ship surplus power. Rather than downgrade the engine system, designers channeled the extra power to the manuver syste to give the ship greater thrust.

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This left bay openings for 12 100-weapon bays on the ship.

Bits about the tradeoff in weapons/engine power...

Carthage class cruiser

2.4 km long, Mass: 1,253,365 tons

engines: 78,000 total (33,000 left/right, 12000 center)

Armament: Class A spinal mount, ,2 100-gun 37.5/20 bays, 4 50 37.5/5 bays, 2 37.5/10 gun bays, class A missile system.

fighters: 72 small craft 10 Crew: 1552 Passengers 100 Marines 100

Carthage class cruiser stats.

Valiant-class frigate:
1.75 km long, 341,485 tons

engine ratings: 19,000 left/right, 20,000 cenrter (58,000 total)


Weapons: 2 100 gun 22.5/10, 4 100 gun 15/10, 2 100 gun 7.5/30 gun bays, type G missile system

Fighters: 48 small craft 5 Crew: 715 Passengers 100 Marines 100

VAliant class frigate stats

Exeter class destroyer

.9 km long, Mass 606,027 tons

Engines: Right/left center 15,000 (45000 total)

armament: 4 50-gun 22.5/15 gun bays, 2 25 gun 22.5/15 bays, type C missile system

Fighters: 24 Small craft: 5 Crew: 529 Passengers: 100 Marines 100

Has anti grav adn streamlining for atmosphere use

Exeter class destroyer stats

Ajax class destroyer

.6 km long, 546,676 tons mass

Engines: 12,000 left/right/center, 36000 total.

Armament: type a spinal mount, 2 50-gun 37.5/5 bays, 4 50-gun 22.5/10 bays, Type B missile system.

Fighters: 6 Small craft: 2 Crew: 427 Passengers 100 marines 100

Has anti grav and streamlining for atmosphere use.

Ajax class destroyer stats.

County-class frigate carrier

1.65 km long, 910,650 tons mass

engine power: 18,000 right/left center.


Armament 3 50 gun 37.5/5 bays, 2 25 gun 7.5/30 bays, 3 10 gun 7.5/30 bays.

fighters: 360 Small craft: 10 Crew 2,058 Passengers 100 Marines 250

County-class frigate carrier stats

Thousands of simulation results show that an average fighter wing will destroy an average battleship half of the time.

[/quote]

Comparison of supposed simulations of fighters vs battleships.

[Connor MacLeod]

Last update for Leviathan

Naval organization is based on the battleship squadron. This force is powerful enough to handle most missions and serves as the basic building block for larger formations. In the navies of the Renegade Legion universe, there are hundreds of thousands of these squadrons. Like their counterparrts on the ground, the vast majority of these are reserve fleets.

The typical squadron is made up of a single battleship acting as the flagship, a single cruiser, two frigates, four destroyers, and two patrol class ships, usually escorts. The fighter complement for the squadron would be those carried by teh ships in the squadron. This normally numbers about a group on the battleship and another group spread among the rest of the capital ships.

A battleship squadron is usually stationed at a major naval base and spends most of its time at a docking facility or in a stabile orbit. Its active duty consists of patrols lasting one or two months. Only rarely are ships reassigned to another squadron.

A reinforced squadron adds a second cruiser or a third frigate or both at the expense of the patrol class ship. carriers are usually assigned to squadrons on a mission basis, but there are many traditional squadron-carrier combinations.

Description of the battleship squadron and details. Note:

- "hundreds of thousands" of BB squadrons in all navies combined.

- Composition is 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 2 frigate,s 4 destroyers, and 2 patrol class ships (usually escorts.) Its unlikely it would be any less than escorts, as ships as a rule carry their own corvettes, and giunboats are specialied. Adding an extr cruiser or frigate and trading out the patrol ships is a "reinforced" squadorn

- Warships psend a month or two in active duty, the rest of the time in drydock. This implies that, if we assume they take shifts, there are probably 6-12 squadrons per naval base. This does assumes that they maintain constant patrols (reasonable, but not neccesarily a given)

It is one of TOG's practices to have various planets or grgoups of planets provide major pieces of equipment. A case in point is the newly discovered Gael Cluster, which was assigned to provide a battleship squadron as a condition for acceptance into the TOG family of worlds. Using established designs and plans approved by the Imperial Navy, the planets in the cluster provided the funds, resources, and manpower to construct the squadron. In this case where a relatively small group of patriotic citizens was responsible, the job was done on tim eand within budget.

The exact parameters of the Gael squadron buildup are given in "Renegade's Honor", although Keith gets the scale of the ships horribly wrong. Basically to sum it up the cluster was 5 planets that took "years" to build the squadron. We could therefore use them as a benchmark for "reasonable" construction of a squadron within a decade, and one squadron per 5 planets average - a benchmark for potential wartime construction (But not neccesarily an upper limit to strain things)

The minimum speed for entering T-spacec is 2.5x10-5 C (C= speed of light) which puts vessels into T-spacee at a speed of one light year per month (ly/month.) MAximum entry speed is 6.25x10-4C, which results in the incredible speed of 10,000 ly/month once the vessel enters T-space.

They basically have dropped T-space top speeds by an order of magnitude (and the entry speeds) from 100,000 LY/month in Interceptor to 10,000 LY/month. Also, entry speeds are correspondingly reduced.

One LY/month is 12C (lowest FTL speed) and fastest is 120,000C.

To accelerate the ship forward, the I-K drive uses an anti-gravity compression chamber that superheats hydrogen and helium atoms to near-relativistic energies before they exit the chamber

As noted, RL ships use gravwank to power their reaction drives. Presumably "near-relativistic" refers to near-c velocities, which is one way to calc it, but "near relativistic energies" also refers to a specific value for electrons (between 30 kiloelectron volts and 300 KeV as per here), which works out to 4.9e-15 to 4.9e-14 J per electron (If I am doing the math right.) The mass of an electron is nearly 9e-31 kg (as per here so ther eshould be (roughly) e30-e31 electrons in one kg of propellant (or the nearest equivalent in terms of mass) Power output per kg of propllant could be generally said to be in the e15-e17 watt range, which corresponds to a particle velocity of between .25c or greater (roughly speaking).

Assuming a 4 million ton warship at 2 gees (battleship) for example, we cn figure on 1000 kg or so of propellant (.3c exit velocity or higher assumed) would require a power output in the e19 watt range, possibly e20watt, depending on exact numbers. Mind you, tihs assume the mass figures are accurate (which I've disputed for various reasons) and assumes "dry mass" (not including fuel, munitions, etc.) wh[ich could bump the estimate higher, so its likely the actual value is orders of magnitude greater. This also assumes the acceleration values from gampelay are definite upper limits (despite hints otherwise elsewhere.)

To navigate in T-space, a ship MUST aim precisely toward its desitnation as it acceclerates to entry speed. The further the destination, the logner the distance the ship must travel before entering T-space. To put the ship on a precise enough path required the development of highly preceise navigational computers. These computers are rated at the acceleration in Gs at which they can calculate an accurat ecourse.

For example, it takes a 5g navigation computer 150 hours to caclulate a course through T-space toward a destination 100,000 light years from teh entry point. During these hours spent calculating, the ship must be accelerating up to entry speed and be under the computer's complete control. For a computer rated at 20 G, it would take only 50 hours to navigate a safe course over the same distance eof 10,000 light years.

I skipped the communications section since alot of this tech is repeated from Interceptor. Note the aformentioned 5G/20G bits, which infers that warships can accelerate at far higher speeds than teh game indicates, and far longer durations. At the aformeentioned value above, they would expend 100 kg/sec of fuel (plus ~300-1000 kg of propellant) Between 150 and 50 hours is 540,000-180,000 seconds - or hundreds of thousands of tons of propellant and fuel expended in a single jump.

Interstellar communications systems are based on a network of omni-directional and uni-directional VLCAs. An Omni-directionla VLCA can send and recieve VCLA signals from and to any part of the sky. Because Omni-directional VCLAs are more expensive to build and maintain, they serve as a nexus point for uni-directionla VLCAs as shown in the diagram below. If the switching capabilities are up to it, a single omni-VLCA can service the whole galaxy. However, standard operation proecdure calls for one omni-VLCA per county. IF a single county's Omni-VLCA is lost, it will only disrupt communications in the county until the local Uni-VLCAs realign themselves to another omni-VLCA.

P-comm is used for in-system communications, or to systems not economically or militarily vital enough to have instantaneous communications. P-comm travels at a speed of .5 light years per minute. The range for sending and receiving is based on the quality of both the sending and receiving set. It is possible for a man-portable P-comm to communicate with a base station light years away.

VLCA are the RL equivalent of holonet/hypercomm, while P-comm are the subspace equivalents. half a light year per minute would be 263,000c - a bit more than 2x the top speed etsablished above. P-comms are highly compact and scalable, despite the low range (personal p-comms are possible, for exmaple.)

This leads to a curious notion - P-comms ought to allow for fairly good remote control/operation of drones and missiles (or ships), yet this is never seen.

Another thing bugging me - If there are different "frequencies" between P-comms and the VLCA that travel at different speeds, shoudln't there be "intermediate' ones (ones travelling slower than VLCA but faster tha P-comms? Data in other sources discussing the concept imply it is largely an issue of sensitivity/size of the receptors.

It is possible to detect a ship that is moving in T-space by monitoring the disruption patterns that it causes there. The same disharmony that causes Shimmer HEat also causes the sip to propogate a spherical disruption pattern around itself as it goes through T-space. (This can be seen two-dimensionally by dropping a steady steream of pebbles into a lake. This pattern surrounds the ship at all times and is detectable in N-space by special sensors, called T-Dopplers.

T-dopplers by description seem to be active sensors, while their function/operation seems to be a passive sensor. They also seem to only work on ships in T-space., even though the actual mechanism seems to be the detection of tachyons. It should be possible, for example to detect ships by their shimmer heat (which I gather is the radiation of tachyons.)

There ought to be some way to adapt this into a sensor ystem, since we know from NPCs that tachyons can interact with normal matter (hit a ship with a stream of tachyons and then detect the shimmer.)