Terminator Salvation

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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Thanas wrote:Meh. Gladiotor does not deserve favorable reviews IMO although it is one of the better movies.
Maybe Terminator: Salvation doesn't deserve favorable reviews IMO although it may be one of the better movies also? :P

As Ebert is one of the most respected critics out there, I very much doubt he didn't get to see the full movie.
Maybe he gave T4 a bad review because it's not his type of movie (namely high brow stuff). Which doesn't preclude it from not being my kind of movie.
Also, io9 is slamming the movie as well. Are you going to charge them with making no sense and not having seen the movie as well?
io9 said it was better than the Toolverine movie, which was good fun. But that it was disappointing in that it had the potential to be much more, but didn't live up to that. Not that it was actively horrible or bad or anything.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Thanas »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Maybe he gave T4 a bad review because it's not his type of movie (namely high brow stuff). Which doesn't preclude it from not being my kind of movie.
No, that can't be it. Ebert likes a lot of lowbrow stuff, including Terminator 2.

Here is an excerpt from his review of that movie:


Schwarzenegger's genius as a movie star is to find roles that build on, rather than undermine, his physical and vocal characteristics. Here he becomes the straight man in a human drama - and in a human comedy, too, as the kid tells him to lighten up and stop talking like a computer. After the kid's mother is freed from the mental home, the threesome work together to defeat T-1000, while at the same time creating an unlikely but effective family unit.

While that's happening on the story level, the movie surpasses itself with special effects. There are the usual car chases, explosions and fight scenes, of course, all well done, but what people will remember is the way the movie envisions T-1000. This cyborg is made out of a newly invented liquid metal that makes him all but invincible. Shoot a hole in him, and you can see right through him, but the sides of the hole run together again, and he's repaired and ready for action.

These scenes involve ingenious creative work by Industrial Light & Magic, the George Lucas special effects shop. The basic idea for T-1000 was first tried out by ILM in "Abyss" (1990), in which an undersea station was invaded by a creature with a body made entirely of water. The trick is to create a computer simulation of the movement desired and then use a computer paintbox program to give it surface color and texture - in this case, the appearance of liquid mercury. The computer images are then combined with the live action; T-1000 turns from shiny liquid into a human being through a dissolve from the effect to the actor.

All of that work would simply be an exercise if the character itself were not effective, but T1000, as played by Patrick, is a splendid villain, with compact good lucks and a bland expression. His most fearsome quality is his implacability; no matter what you do to him, he doesn't get disturbed and he doesn't get discouraged. He just pulls himself together and keeps on coming.

The key element in any action picture, I think, is a good villain.

"Terminator 2" has one, along with an intriguing hero and fierce heroine, and a young boy who is played by Furlong with guts and energy. The movie responds to criticisms of excessive movie violence by tempering the Terminator's blood lust, but nobody, I think, will complain that it doesn't have enough action.
So anyone who accuses him off being someone who hates terminator because it does have explosions can pretty much eat their words.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Ghost Rider »

Ok, jesus fucking christ. Ebert in the end is still a critic. He usually presents his views logically but is still presenting his views. Whether you are more inclined to agree or disagree will vary upon your point of view. For me, this reminds me of his Watchmen review. I don't agree with it. But that's the benefit of actually coming up with one's own fucking choices and in the end that matters more then going onto RT and going "See movie is at 99%!!!!" and being a fucking tool.

Can we get back to actually one's own review of the movie rather then a fat man in Chicago?
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Thanas wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Maybe he gave T4 a bad review because it's not his type of movie (namely high brow stuff). Which doesn't preclude it from not being my kind of movie.
No, that can't be it. Ebert likes a lot of lowbrow stuff, including Terminator 2.
Arguably, Terminator 2 was not just a lowbrow film because under all the blockbuster special effects, it also had subtle contents and themes and other fancy pants stuff that artsy fartsy guys like Ebert could appreciate. This is because James Cameron actually knows how to make movies that are good in several respects, including things like robots and big explosions but also good storytelling, compelling characterization, and stuff. That is, before he hit menopause after making Titanic. Arguably, from an artsy fartsy critic standpoint, a lot of the things present in "old school" giant explosion movies like Terminator 2 are kind of no longer present in a lot of modern big effects blockbusters - an observation Ebert himself makes in one of his other reviews (of Terminator 3 or 4, I don't remember).

Be that as it may, I am still eagerly anticipating this movie. As Ghost Rider said, who gives a crap about some fat artsy fartsy snob anyway? Ebert gave T4 two stars out of four, but he also gave the exact same rating as Gladiator and that is one of my favorite movies of all time. I wonder what Ebert thinks about Commando.

On a side note, my classmate thought he saw Terminator 4 on "DVD". But apparently he was mistaken and had only seen a cheapass direct-to-video ripoff movie called The Terminators. I guess it's probably to T4 what Transmorphers was to Transformers.

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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:On a side note, my classmate thought he saw Terminator 4 on "DVD". But apparently he was mistaken and had only seen a cheapass direct-to-video ripoff movie called The Terminators. I guess it's probably to T4 what Transmorphers was to Transformers.

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OMG did anyone actually see Transmorphers? That was classically bad on par with Battlefield Earth
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Peptuck »

Finally got around to seeing it, and I loved the shit out of it. A few things I noticed:
(not bothering with spoilers because I figure anyone in this thread has already seen the movie.)

-Modern projectile weaponry does seem to be able to damage at the least the T-600s, which makes their implementation by TechCom to be logical sense. Connor manages to kill one T-600 in the intro with a pair of 5.56mm rounds to the head, though that one was damaged. The more intact one later on took several dozen hits from the machinegun to kill.
-Connor had to use a modified eye jacked from the mototerminator to read any of Skynet's interfaces, which made sense.
-Skynet implied that it was aware of the failures of its previous time-traveling models. Does it already have time-travel technology at this point, or did it have some kind of data dump set up to inform it of its past units' failures?
-Holy shit the hydrobots were scary awesome.

One other thing I noticed is that its possible to include SCC in this timeline, if you consider the future sequences in SCC to have taken place after T4. In particular, the complete nuclear annihilation of Skynet's main base of operations on the West Coast may explain why its resources are apparently so limited in SCC.

So, my personal canon here is T1 -> T2 -> T3 (maybe) -> TS -> T:SCC.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Thanas »

Peptuck wrote:One other thing I noticed is that its possible to include SCC in this timeline, if you consider the future sequences in SCC to have taken place after T4. In particular, the complete nuclear annihilation of Skynet's main base of operations on the West Coast may explain why its resources are apparently so limited in SCC.

So, my personal canon here is T1 -> T2 -> T3 (maybe) -> TS -> T:SCC.
No, there are too many discrepancies with T:SCC to have it make much sense.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Peptuck »

Thanas wrote:
Peptuck wrote:One other thing I noticed is that its possible to include SCC in this timeline, if you consider the future sequences in SCC to have taken place after T4. In particular, the complete nuclear annihilation of Skynet's main base of operations on the West Coast may explain why its resources are apparently so limited in SCC.

So, my personal canon here is T1 -> T2 -> T3 (maybe) -> TS -> T:SCC.
No, there are too many discrepancies with T:SCC to have it make much sense.
Such as?

Not wanting to argue here, juust wanting to know what these are. I can think of a few minor ones off the top of my head, but are there major ones I'm unaware of?
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Re: Terminator Salvation

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I enjoyed it as an action/war movie, but I really fucking hated the ending. After all the effort Marcus went through, all the character building he recieved, everything he did at Skynet Central, even John Connor's Big Damn Rescue when the T-800 flattened him...oh heart transplant lol. Bah.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Superman »

The wife and I watched it twice now. I think I'd give the movie a solid 8 out of 10.

Frankly I'm surprised Rotten Tomatoes is currently rating it with a 34%. Star Trek is up in the 90's, and although Star Trek may be a superior movie, I think I actually had more fun watching Terminator.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

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Kuja wrote:I enjoyed it as an action/war movie, but I really fucking hated the ending. After all the effort Marcus went through, all the character building he recieved, everything he did at Skynet Central, even John Connor's Big Damn Rescue when the T-800 flattened him...oh heart transplant lol. Bah.
Concerning the transplant, it must have been a lucky match for it to work, though I don't know how long term they expected it to be (permanent I suppose). Perhaps the heart's construction allows for a wide variety of recipients, even if that is not the case, the ability to produce various organs is something of great potential use for the resistance.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Kon_El »

Roger Ebert wrote:The first "Terminator" movie I regret (I suppose) I did not see.
This movie does have a few things that really require having seen all of the movies to make sense of.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

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This version of Terminator was a lot like the new Indiana Jones movie, in that I really enjoyed the first half or two thirds of it and it crashed and burned at the end. Seriously, by the time of the 'heart transplant' I vocally groaned and my wife was laughing at the screen.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Gil Hamilton »

I liked the first 70% of the movie immensely. The ending just kind of tanked.
Spoiler
I saw it, but it seems like the end of the movie just went too smoothly. I know that Marcus "turned off" some of the defenses in order to allow John Connor in... but why, pray tell, since it was a ruse by Skynet, didn't the computer simply turn them back on once John Connor was in?

Skynet seemed to be doing really well in the first half of the movie, and then all of a sudden, the only Skynet fighter in sight is the Composite Arnold T-800. The Resistance fighters just moved right in and jacked the place without Skynet firing a shot at them. You'd think, given that the whole movie was Skynet doing a Dark Helmet ("Haha... fooled you!"), that it would turn its defenses back on once it had what it wanted.

My girlfriend and I were joking that Skynet used Windows Vista and hence the response time for turning on the bases defenses just wasn't quick enough. "Yes, I am sure I want to reactivate T-650 #3475... Yes, I am sure I want to reactivate T-650 #3476... Yes, I am sure... DAMN IT! Why isn't this working? Let me look at the manual... damn it, I am in administrator mode!"

Then there repeated comments about Marcus having a "strong heart" and OH! John Connor gets a heart injury! And the Resistance just so happens to still be able to do heart transplants, despite not having a hospital and very like is severely understocked in medicine. I was somewhat disappointed in Marcus' role. They tried to play up the "is he a man or an inflitrator" in the previews, and Skynet makes him out to be part of the master plan... but at no point in the movie does it even hint at Skynet using him as an infiltrator until the big reveal happens. At no point does he do anything questionable to show he might be Skynet under the surface. It felt like he needed like 20 more minutes of character development.
Heh, and that giant Skynet harvester mecha at the 7-11 sure was sneaky. You'd think they'd hear the drop ship and the robot before it was, you know, ready to smash off the roof. Neither of those things were subtle.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Thanas »

Peptuck wrote:Such as?
Well, for once John is too old IMO. Then, the T-600 are unlike the versions we've seen in T:SCC.

Or wait, did you mean the unaltered T:SCC timeline before Cameron was sent back?


Kon_El wrote:
Roger Ebert wrote:The first "Terminator" movie I regret (I suppose) I did not see.
This movie does have a few things that really require having seen all of the movies to make sense of.
Another one who didn't read.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

I just saw it... and it sucked. It's not even as good as Terminator 3. From about 20 minutes in, I don't think there was a single scene that wasn't stupid in some way, and not the fun kind of stupid.

First of all, Marcus was just a wanky character and felt like McG's very own Mary Sue. His main purpose in the movie was apparently to be the super-strong good guy so that they could have the big fist fight at the end, and it wasn't even that good of a fight. The whole heart-transplant substory was not only obvious but also tacky and groan-worthily implemented. He was a likeable character--maybe the only one in the movie, besides Kyle--but he was so silly an idea that he felt tacked on just for the sake of special effects fisticuffs, like Will Smith's robot arm in I, Robot. Lame.

John Connor was a douchebag with a huge God-complex. Yay? After his "we save Kyle Reese-->we save the future" transition at the end, I'm surprised his underlings didn't share some nervous glances.

Skynet was not even trying to kill John Connor. I can't count on just one hand how many times the supercomputer dropped the ball on that one, let alone how much it fucked up with Kyle Reese. If the hero is only as heroic as his villain is villainous, then in this movie John Connor is almost ready to take on The Retarded Policeman.... As long as he has his cyborg not-Will-Smith companion for backup.

Skynet has an aversion to sending more than one unit on any given mission, much like an RTS gamer who needs to micromanage in order to keep his units from walking past enemy bases. Where the hell were the massive waves of HKs or even those adorable hunter-drones from T2 3D? Skynet has the resources to make Constructicons with SoundWave-style parasites that are only designed to kill enemies on paved surfaces, but can't figure out how to make poison gas that instantly kills any intruders into its non-oxygen-breathing HQ?

The Resistance leadership thought the best place for its transmitter was in the basket carrying all its eggs? Really? Wouldn't it have been more efficient to have the transmitter (if not multiple transmitters) stationed where it wouldn't be under several thousand cubic meters of water?
Shouldn't there be some kind of air cover or defense where they were located?

It's nice to see a combined-arms military in action in a sci-fi movie, but the Resistance was practically the movie Mobile Infantry in terms of competence. Just once would I like to see the good guys win, not because the bad guys are so dumb, but because the good guys are so good.

This movie was a mess.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by thecreech »

Saw it last night, being a big fan of the first two movies i was hoping this one would redeem the failure that was the 3 one. Unfortunately it didn't. All i have been wanting to see since the first movie is the war that has been reference in kyle reeses flashbacks and nightmares. The epic war between the machines and humans but still we didn't get that. Again we got another small personal story that wasn't even written well. As i watched the movie i think what it came down to is the writer and director having their own vision of what they wanted the terminator to be and not what it should of been. Very disappointing

problems with the movie

when they show the Arnold terminator that should of been a significant point for john. I mean that was the terminator that saved his life. I don't know, i think that there should of been more of an emotional pull there.

The female pilot and marcus story was flat and borning. should of cut that out of the movie all together.

I am john connor, this is john connor. John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor John stamos John connor John connor John connor John connor John connor. Ok we fucking get it your john connor how many times does it have to be mentioned in the movie. In the beginning it said something about being a messiah or prophet but others didn't believe in it. It sounded like the movie would revolve around that but they never expanded on it like i thought they were going to and john just being another solider that some people like and others didnt.

Where the fuck is the awesome terminator music from the original movies? They used them very very rarely and maybe for only a couple of seconds at a time.

Either way i don't have time to list all my complaints but the movie sucked and i heard that this is part of a trilogy of movies which, by the direction of this movie, the other two are going to suck :finger:
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Re: Terminator Salvation

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Peptuck wrote: -Modern projectile weaponry does seem to be able to damage at the least the T-600s, which makes their implementation by TechCom to be logical sense. Connor manages to kill one T-600 in the intro with a pair of 5.56mm rounds to the head, though that one was damaged. The more intact one later on took several dozen hits from the machinegun to kill.
I saw it again yesterday, I think it's one of the things john mentions on the radio to though he mentions that they're only effective at ranges under 100 meters. That or he was talking at the t-600s themselves.

Skynet has an aversion to sending more than one unit on any given mission, much like an RTS gamer who needs to micromanage in order to keep his units from walking past enemy bases. Where the hell were the massive waves of HKs or even those adorable hunter-drones from T2 3D? Skynet has the resources to make Constructicons with SoundWave-style parasites that are only designed to kill enemies on paved surfaces, but can't figure out how to make poison gas that instantly kills any intruders into its non-oxygen-breathing HQ?
And it was like this even in the Cameron films. There's a conspicuous lack of chemical and biological weapons use. Also SkyNet does have a tendency to send one unit when it could send many see.. well the whole time travel plot. It had access to the time machine long enough to send 3 units through but instead of sending them all after Sarah Connor in 1984 in the initial strike it spread things out.
Heh, and that giant Skynet harvester mecha at the 7-11 sure was sneaky. You'd think they'd hear the drop ship and the robot before it was, you know, ready to smash off the roof. Neither of those things were subtle.
You mean like the increasingly loud jet noise that eventually got to the point where it was shaking the whole damn building right before the Harvester busted in the roof?
I saw it, but it seems like the end of the movie just went too smoothly. I know that Marcus "turned off" some of the defenses in order to allow John Connor in... but why, pray tell, since it was a ruse by Skynet, didn't the computer simply turn them back on once John Connor was in?

Skynet seemed to be doing really well in the first half of the movie, and then all of a sudden, the only Skynet fighter in sight is the Composite Arnold T-800. The Resistance fighters just moved right in and jacked the place without Skynet firing a shot at them. You'd think, given that the whole movie was Skynet doing a Dark Helmet ("Haha... fooled you!"), that it would turn its defenses back on once it had what it wanted.
Regarding this considering that Connor's bunch had strike craft still it's probable the defenses were blown up before they sent the choppers in. And obviously there's something shooting down there since there were wounded prisoners on the ground when the blackhawk landed and the door gunners were shooting at something on the way in.
I enjoyed it as an action/war movie, but I really fucking hated the ending. After all the effort Marcus went through, all the character building he recieved, everything he did at Skynet Central, even John Connor's Big Damn Rescue when the T-800 flattened him...oh heart transplant lol. Bah.
Sounds like you would have preferred the original ending to.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Bilbo »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I liked the first 70% of the movie immensely. The ending just kind of tanked.
Spoiler
I saw it, but it seems like the end of the movie just went too smoothly. I know that Marcus "turned off" some of the defenses in order to allow John Connor in... but why, pray tell, since it was a ruse by Skynet, didn't the computer simply turn them back on once John Connor was in?

Skynet seemed to be doing really well in the first half of the movie, and then all of a sudden, the only Skynet fighter in sight is the Composite Arnold T-800. The Resistance fighters just moved right in and jacked the place without Skynet firing a shot at them. You'd think, given that the whole movie was Skynet doing a Dark Helmet ("Haha... fooled you!"), that it would turn its defenses back on once it had what it wanted.

My girlfriend and I were joking that Skynet used Windows Vista and hence the response time for turning on the bases defenses just wasn't quick enough. "Yes, I am sure I want to reactivate T-650 #3475... Yes, I am sure I want to reactivate T-650 #3476... Yes, I am sure... DAMN IT! Why isn't this working? Let me look at the manual... damn it, I am in administrator mode!"

Then there repeated comments about Marcus having a "strong heart" and OH! John Connor gets a heart injury! And the Resistance just so happens to still be able to do heart transplants, despite not having a hospital and very like is severely understocked in medicine. I was somewhat disappointed in Marcus' role. They tried to play up the "is he a man or an inflitrator" in the previews, and Skynet makes him out to be part of the master plan... but at no point in the movie does it even hint at Skynet using him as an infiltrator until the big reveal happens. At no point does he do anything questionable to show he might be Skynet under the surface. It felt like he needed like 20 more minutes of character development.
Heh, and that giant Skynet harvester mecha at the 7-11 sure was sneaky. You'd think they'd hear the drop ship and the robot before it was, you know, ready to smash off the roof. Neither of those things were subtle.

Marcus used his direct access to the SKynet system to turn off all of Skynets defenses. For some reason this was not something that Skynet could quickly override.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Anguirus »

-Modern projectile weaponry does seem to be able to damage at the least the T-600s, which makes their implementation by TechCom to be logical sense. Connor manages to kill one T-600 in the intro with a pair of 5.56mm rounds to the head, though that one was damaged. The more intact one later on took several dozen hits from the machinegun to kill.
Nitpick: those are T-700s.
Then, the T-600 are unlike the versions we've seen in T:SCC.
We don't see a 600 with intact skin in the film. Similarly, we don't see a 600 without skin in SCC. They can drop the gatling cannon, or at least the action figure can. I think they could be the same tech. However, I agree that there's no way they are the same timeline.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Thanas »

Anguirus wrote:
Then, the T-600 are unlike the versions we've seen in T:SCC.
We don't see a 600 with intact skin in the film. Similarly, we don't see a 600 without skin in SCC. They can drop the gatling cannon, or at least the action figure can. I think they could be the same tech. However, I agree that there's no way they are the same timeline.
From what I have heard, their frame is way too different. All T-600s in T:SCC are of average height and size, but these are a bit more on the hulk side of things.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

This is 2019. While TSCC is set in like 2027 or something. It's not inconceivable that the T-600's could've been de-bulked and manufactured in sleeker "carbine" versions. Like how T-888s can come in small petite women forms and other sizes smaller than Austrian bodybuilder barbarian politicians.

But it's ridiculous to try and combine all these obviously different timelines together anyway.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Samuel »

And it was like this even in the Cameron films. There's a conspicuous lack of chemical and biological weapons use.
I think it was mentioned that the Resistance started uses chemical warfare suits and they were too spread out for biowarfare to work effectively.
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by Kuja »

SylasGaunt wrote:Sounds like you would have preferred the original ending to.
How did that go?
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Re: Terminator Salvation

Post by tezunegari »

Kuja wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:Sounds like you would have preferred the original ending to.
How did that go?
I think the rumors said Connor would be killed and Marcus dons Connors skin and takes his position as leader of the Resistance. Though how they would have made the resistance trust a terminator as leader is beyond me.
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