Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Tiriol
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2005-09-15 11:31am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Tiriol »

As reported by the BBC News: Germany celebrates the 60th anniversary of the Federal Republic and attitudes towards patriotism are changing.
Renewed pride at Germany's birthday party
The 60th anniversary of the Federal Republic has helped renew German pride.

By Steve Rosenberg
BBC News, Berlin


Forty years ago, the President of the Federal Republic of Germany (then West Germany) Gustav Heinemann was asked if he loved his country.

"I do not love the state," President Heinemann replied. "I love my wife."

It was a sign of how reluctant Germans were back then (even the country's president) to display patriotism.

Memories of World War II and the horrors inflicted by the Nazis were still fresh. Germany felt a collective responsibility for what had happened. German pride was something which needed to be kept under wraps.

Times have changed. Today Germany celebrated the 60th anniversary of the Federal Republic, which rose out of the ashes of the Third Reich.

There were big celebrations in Berlin with concerts and fairs. The city was awash with German flags.

"We have accomplished a lot," the country's President, Horst Koehler, told parliament on the eve of the celebrations. "We can be proud of what we have achieved."

Germany has achieved a great deal. After the war, the country lay in ruins, defeated and divided between the victors of World War II.

But as the Cold War blew in, the Western powers - Britain, France and America - backed the establishment of a new German state, in the zones they controlled.

The Federal Republic of Germany would be a democracy. It would respect human rights. A new constitution, the Basic Law, would help transplant democracy into soil tainted by the Nazis, transforming this Germany into a reliable ally of the West.

Worst recession

Very quickly the Federal Republic became a success story. There was the economic miracle of the 1950s which saw the country rebuilt and prosper.

It became a dynamo for European integration - and, eventually, a vehicle for German reunification. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, communist East Germany became part of the Federal Republic.

There have been problems along the way, too.

In the 1970s terror groups targeted the state, assassinating judges and industrialists, in protest at the Establishment's Nazi past. Reunification brought an enormous financial burden. And there is economic hardship today, as Germany suffers its worst recession since the war.

Despite the difficulties, in recent years Germans have felt more able to express their love of their country. It was evident during the 2006 World Cup in Germany, when fans painted German flags on their faces.

A recent survey by the Identity Foundation discovered that more than 70% of people believe they should show more confidence about being German. More than 60% said they were proud to be German.

At the Brandenburg Gate, the centrepiece of Sunday's celebrations, I noticed a giant queue snaking round the square. I wondered what everyone was standing in line for.

Then I saw. Someone was handing out German flags to wave, and carrier bags decorated with another German flag. National pride was in big demand.
I, for one, am happy for the Germans and Germany. The unfortunate images of an evil Nazi commander and of an emotionless, goose-stepping Nazi soldier still remains in people's minds as stereotypes of Germans, of how they should act and what they are. But maybe that image will fade, given time. And this news at least shows that Germans, while still reserved about showing off their patriotism, are now willing to do so, without immediately fearing typecasting or mocking.

And I also congratulate Germany for the Federal Republic's 60th anniversary. It has been a long way and also a very hard way, but it seems to have worked out well.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!

The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by K. A. Pital »

Didn't Germany have the same attitude 10 years ago? I mean, basically, the West and East German zones were quite completely de-Nazified; maybe not to the extent necessary, but to such an extent that even 10-20 years ago no one linked Germany ("modern Germany") and well, "Nazi Germany" - even here in Russia, despite Russia being one of the main victims of the German attack during WWII.

Somehow I fail to find this news, because modern Germany is a scratch-built, de-Nazified state, and the level of patriotism there has been more or less constant through the last 20 years.

It would be interesting to look at things 10-20 years ago, not 40 years ago when obviously the German nation-state, and the Germans themselves were still not past, generation-wise, the immediate post-war events.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Tiriol
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2005-09-15 11:31am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Tiriol »

Stas Bush wrote:Didn't Germany have the same attitude 10 years ago? I mean, basically, the West and East German zones were quite completely de-Nazified; maybe not to the extent necessary, but to such an extent that even 10-20 years ago no one linked Germany ("modern Germany") and well, "Nazi Germany" - even here in Russia, despite Russia being one of the main victims of the German attack during WWII.

Somehow I fail to find this news, because modern Germany is a scratch-built, de-Nazified state, and the level of patriotism there has been more or less constant through the last 20 years.

It would be interesting to look at things 10-20 years ago, not 40 years ago when obviously the German nation-state, and the Germans themselves were still not past, generation-wise, the immediate post-war events.
I'm not so sure. The Germans and Germany still sometimes get snide remarks abour their past and at least I was under the impression that the avoidance of patriotism was still very much in effect just some years ago.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!

The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by K. A. Pital »

Really, dunno. I saw lots of little plastic German flags when I went to Germany in the 1990s. Those are fairly standard displays of patriotism, aren't they? "Snide remarks" can only come from people really, really ignorant of the history of Germany post-war, or simply Germanophobic if not somewhat racist.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Dahak
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7292
Joined: 2002-10-29 12:08pm
Location: Admiralty House, Landing, Manticore
Contact:

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Dahak »

Stas Bush wrote:Really, dunno. I saw lots of little plastic German flags when I went to Germany in the 1990s. Those are fairly standard displays of patriotism, aren't they? "Snide remarks" can only come from people really, really ignorant of the history of Germany post-war, or simply Germanophobic if not somewhat racist.
People outside of government functions, waving flags or hanging them outside of their flat have had a slight touch of "Neo-Nazi" or "patriotic lunatic". This has changed a lot in recent times, but there were still people questioning why we should show the flag on cars and so at the time of the football world cup in Germany, despite a huge lot of people doing so just for fun.
This is also the country were the question "can we be proud of Germany/to be Germans" can still raise a storm in the newspapers and a lot of debates...
Image
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC
GALE Force Euro Wimp
Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Image
User avatar
Qwerty 42
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2008
Joined: 2005-06-01 05:05pm

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Qwerty 42 »

The German-Nazi connection is somewhat depressingly prevalent, even in the highly liberal area I live in: that isn't to say it's even remotely common, but you'll every so often get someone who jokes about it, some people will actually get genuinely alarmed when they hear that I'm minoring in German, and not for the "what in the world are you going to do with a language degree?" reason.
Image Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know, the piper's calling you to join him
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Serafina »

Well, from my experience (i live in Germany), virtually NO ONE showed the german flag in public unless he was either a far-right nationalist or a public institution - until the football/soccer world championsship in 2006. This kinda broke the "social ban" on it.

German levels of patriotism are still well below those of other countries - a lot of people are still feeling a little akward when they hear someone boasting with "patriotic pride".
But thats changing, too. Both chancellor Angela Merkel and president Horst Köhler are an important part of that - both have used "appeals to patriotism" to rise public morale in view of the economic crisis.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Qwerty 42 wrote:The German-Nazi connection is somewhat depressingly prevalent, even in the highly liberal area I live in
For some reason, people love lazy stereotypes that are decades out of step with reality. In animated comedies like the Simpsons or Family Guy where they go to foreign countries, they can never muster a convincing satire on the current state of affairs there instead of just trotting out dead horses and cliches, and so it continues to be a take on American culture - specifically, their impressions of foreign ones.

What it'll take to shake that, I couldn't say.
Image
User avatar
Darth Hoth
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2319
Joined: 2008-02-15 09:36am

Re: Germany celebrates the republic, patriotism on the rise

Post by Darth Hoth »

I strongly doubt that Germany has rid itself of its Nazi complex yet, much less has started to accept public patriotism. Even here in Sweden, people tend to associate flags with "extreme" nationalism, nowadays, and we have none of that baggage (except for not making war on das Reich and getting squishified, in '41).

That said, I welcome any sign of German recovery. They have suffered under the shadow of the Second World War for far too long already.
"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books."

-George "Evil" Lucas
Post Reply