Conservatives using Canada in new anti-health care campaign

[Guardsman Bass]

It's not exactly new news that conservatives in the US have tried to portray the Canadian system as bad and then use it as an argument against universal health care, but apparently it is going to play a major role in a new campaign they are launching against it in terms of television advertisements:

Conservative groups are stepping up the battle against Democrats' proposed health-system overhaul with advertising campaigns contending that the changes could result in long waits for surgery and difficulty obtaining prescription drugs.

A conservative group will begin running a new ad campaign, which equates Democrats' health care reform with long waits. The ad highlights the direction Republicans will likely take the health care reform debate, Janet Adamy explains.

Americans for Prosperity Foundation, a conservative advocacy organization, on Wednesday plans to launch a $1.7 million television-advertising campaign that negatively likens the U.S. health-care system envisioned by lawmakers to Canada's publicly administered system.


Another group, Conservatives for Patients' Rights, which opposes a government-run health system, plans to begin airing 30-minute segments on Sunday featuring unpaid commentary by patients and doctors from Canada and the United Kingdom detailing what they describe as failings in their health-care systems. The U.K. system is run by the government.

The conservative groups' campaigns seek to liken the Democrats' proposed system to those in countries where the government has more involvement in the health system. Many experts don't believe such systems offer worse care than the current U.S. system, which is based largely on private plans and coverage.

In the ad campaign by Americans for Prosperity Foundation, a Canadian woman, who also was not paid, says: "As my brain tumor got worse, my government health-care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist."

Congress is considering some changes that could increase the government's involvement in the health-care system. President Barack Obama and some Democrats want to create a public health-insurance plan that would help cover the uninsured and compete with private insurers, an idea that has met strong resistance from Republicans.

But leading Democratic lawmakers drafting legislation to expand health-care coverage and reduce its cost have said they wouldn't seek to emulate either the Canadian or U.K. system. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D., Mont.) told reporters last week that he was trying to craft "a uniquely American solution" where people who like their health insurance can keep it.

Americans for Prosperity's ad is slated to run in eight states that have lawmakers seen as influential in the health-care debate: Montana, Virginia, Arkansas, Louisiana, South Dakota, Indiana, Alaska and Nebraska. The group is scheduling rallies in Virginia and elsewhere starting this weekend to muster opposition to proposed changes.

Conservatives for Patients' Rights began airing advertisements in March, but it is intensifying its effort with a 30-minute spot that will air on Sunday in the Washington area. The spot is part of a planned $20 million ad campaign that will run as lawmakers hash out a health-care overhaul.

If you go to the link, there's some video bits from the ads as well available to watch.

[Darth Tanner]

In the ad campaign by Americans for Prosperity Foundation, a Canadian woman, who also was not paid, says: "As my brain tumor got worse, my government health-care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist."

Where as in the glorious USA she wouldn’t have had to wait at all to be told that she couldn’t afford the treatment and would have to go die somewhere else or she could have had the opportunity to beggar herself and her entire family to save her life.

As a Brit I just find it completely alien that politicians would be advertising the fact that they are against socialised medical cover for their populations. The NHS is so fundamental to society that even the far right parties recognise that doing so in the UK would be political suicide and even talking about decreasing its budget can be a major political mistake. Then again most far right groups in Europe would likely be labelled as communist liberals in the USA.

[tezunegari]

In the ad campaign by Americans for Prosperity Foundation, a Canadian woman, who also was not paid, says: "As my brain tumor got worse, my government health-care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist."

I don't know how having to wait six month for an appointment does imply that a government controlled health-care system is bad.

Some time ago I got a bad case of headache but fortunately my doctor was able to get me an appointment at a MRT-center (magnet resonance tomography - kernspin tomography in english I think).

If I had been unable to go then I would have had to wait about six months.
So how does a specialist having no free time for an appointment lead to the idea that the whole system is wrong?

[Starglider]

It should be quite easy to counter this with a campaign featuring all the various horror stories of insufficient health coverage, unexpected gaps in health coverage, personal bankrupcy due to healthcare costs, small company inability to pay for benefits etc etc. I'm surprised that no liberal organisations have done this.

[Prannon]

In order for it to be thought of as successful, instant gratification is required. Universally high quality of health care is also required. Furthermore, you have to prove that all the good doctors won't flee to some other refuge if health care were socialized. That seems to be one big fear along with a general decrease in quality and all the waiting and so on and so forth.

[PeZook]

You mean testimonies are worthless as evidence for/against nation-wide health care systems?

Wow...who knew?

Of course, testimonies work great for swaying public opinion, because people snooze when seeing bo-ring statistics, but get all emotional when looking at dead babies or hearing about woe and horror of patients. Especially if it fits their preconceived notions...

[PainRack]

Where as in the glorious USA she wouldn’t have had to wait at all to be told that she couldn’t afford the treatment and would have to go die somewhere else or she could have had the opportunity to beggar herself and her entire family to save her life.

As a Brit I just find it completely alien that politicians would be advertising the fact that they are against socialised medical cover for their populations. The NHS is so fundamental to society that even the far right parties recognise that doing so in the UK would be political suicide and even talking about decreasing its budget can be a major political mistake. Then again most far right groups in Europe would likely be labelled as communist liberals in the USA.

Remember Kinnison parthian shot? There are people who are badly disillusioned with what they see as the flaws of the system and ignore the advantages and benefits it has.

So how does a specialist having no free time for an appointment lead to the idea that the whole system is wrong?

Not enough spare capacity to handle more patient load. Supposedly, a free market system automatically adjusts the system so that you always have adequate capacity, you know free hand vs command economy mantra?

[Surlethe]

What really got me about this article was this gem:

But leading Democratic lawmakers drafting legislation to expand health-care coverage and reduce its cost have said they wouldn't seek to emulate either the Canadian or U.K. system. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D., Mont.) told reporters last week that he was trying to craft "a uniquely American solution" where people who like their health insurance can keep it.

In other words, not only are the conservative organizations dishonestly representing the Canadian and UK systems, they are attacking a gigantic strawman.

[PeZook]

...craft "a uniquely American solution" where people who like their health insurance can keep it.

On another note, do many Americans seriously think that in Europe, the government prohibits you from buying private health insurance?

[Patrick Degan]

...craft "a uniquely American solution" where people who like their health insurance can keep it.

On another note, do many Americans seriously think that in Europe, the government prohibits you from buying private health insurance?

Hate to say this, but yes. A lot of Americans have been gulled into believing that social healthcare and private healthcare are mutually exclusive and that the latter must be prohibited to "force" people into the social system. Evils of Marxism and all that...

[Darth Wong]

This plays into American macho idiot psychology, quite frankly. You can find horror stories from the American public health care system which are far worse (and vastly more numerous) than any story they can find from the Canadian system. The difference is that since the American system is based on ability to pay, Americans seem to think that those horror stories are somehow less unjust, because the person deserved it for not being rich enough or having the best insurance.

Americans tend to feel that any horror story loses all its impact and tragedy if they can brush it off by saying "Well, he shoulda done this ..."

Even though far more Americans get deliberately screwed by their insurance companies than get delayed by the Canadian system or fall through its cracks, that somehow doesn't count in their minds because they assume that these Americans must have gotten cheap insurance and they're just paying for their own mistake now. Of course, that's not true, but it doesn't matter; these people just look for an excuse to handwave things away if they don't want to hear them.

[Broomstick]

Some time ago I got a bad case of headache but fortunately my doctor was able to get me an appointment at a MRT-center (magnet resonance tomography - kernspin tomography in english I think).

I believe the English term for what you are referring to is "magnetic resonance imaging" or MRI for short.

On another note, do many Americans seriously think that in Europe, the government prohibits you from buying private health insurance?

Yes, they believe exactly that.

[Glocksman]

It's not really a 'horror story' as the GI Doc blew a gasket at the insurance company's initial denial and they ponied up, but I was hospitalized last week for a bleeding ulcer* and after I was discharged the GI Doc prescribed carafate and Protonix.

When I went to fill the scripts, the pharmacy said that they couldn't fill the Protonix as it had to be 'pre approved' by the HMO.
I first called the HMO to bitch, but naturally they were already closed for the day.

The next day, the Doctor got the HMO to approve it.
I went in expecting to pay the $40 copay for a 'name brand' drug, but instead paid $10 for a generic version of Protonix.

Keep in mind that this prescription was to help me heal up after a 3 day stay in ICU that cost only God knows how much.
Their 'penny wise' behavior could have been 'pound foolish' if I'd wound up back in the ER.

Much like Lincoln's thoughts on slavery defenders, when I read 'socialized medicine' horror stories from those on the right defending the current system, I'd like to strip them of their gold plated policies and financial reserves and let them see what it's like to be sick in the USA without health coverage.

Methinks they'd be singing a different tune.



*Unlike my last bleeding ulcer several years ago, I didn't wait until my BP hit 70/30 before going to the ER.

[PainRack]

It's not really a 'horror story' as the GI Doc blew a gasket at the insurance company's initial denial and they ponied up, but I was hospitalized last week for a bleeding ulcer* and after I was discharged the GI Doc prescribed carafate and Protonix.

When I went to fill the scripts, the pharmacy said that they couldn't fill the Protonix as it had to be 'pre approved' by the HMO.
I first called the HMO to bitch, but naturally they were already closed for the day.

The next day, the Doctor got the HMO to approve it.
I went in expecting to pay the $40 copay for a 'name brand' drug, but instead paid $10 for a generic version of Protonix.

Keep in mind that this prescription was to help me heal up after a 3 day stay in ICU that cost only God knows how much.
Their 'penny wise' behavior could have been 'pound foolish' if I'd wound up back in the ER.

Errr.... correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that part of your dissatisfaction comes from the fact that you're purchasing a generic drug.

If so, why is that wrong?

[Glocksman]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.
My dissatisfaction is with the fact that the insurance didn't initially want to pay for a generic drug, despite the drug being prescribed for GI bleeding.
I was surprised that they required 'pre approval' for a generic drug.
As far as generics go, I prefer them simply because a generic fill costs me $10 instead of $25 or $40.

[Stargate Nerd]

Well lets hope that president Obama puts his money where his mouth is and gets on TV and calls these people liars like he seems to have promised.

[Darth Wong]

Well lets hope that president Obama puts his money where his mouth is and gets on TV and calls these people liars like he seems to have promised.

Unfortunately, I don't think the American people are ready for truly universal health care. The word "socialized" is still used as a moral accusation rather than a value-neutral adjective, for fuck's sake. It's hard to really push back against the right-wingers when their bullshit rhetoric is still so effective on the majority of mouth-breathers out there. Most Americans honestly believe that Canadians literally have to go on waiting lists every time they want any kind of health care. Even the people who advocate health care reform often buy into that bullshit.

[PeZook]

The thing such rhetoric glosses over is the fact that in a socialized system people are encouraged to use preventive medicine more: since you can go to a doctor to get checked out at any time, maybe with a small fee in some systems, then when a person gets, say, chest pains, he just goes to the doc's office at the nearest opportunity. Often, the additional waiting period for an appointment with a specialist is offset by the fact the patient went to get checked out early, and can still afford to wait two weeks without the problem becoming deadly.

While I understand that some American HMOs encourage you to use preventive medicine under their plans, others don't, and many people don't have any insurance at all, thus they wait untill the problem becomes worse, and end up in the emergency room.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I keep hearing these same talking points at work. Not suprising we have a lot of bussers who have been in a union shop for 20-30 years, ad make their primary money of fucking over everyone they work around, just so they can maximize their personal tip situation. One of them said that you had to wait a year to get a check up on a life threatening illness. I told them, no that was wrong, It's more like Triage, those that have need are the first priority, a regular check up that your supposed to do every year might have a couple of weeks wait, which is about what it takes me to get an appointment here too, where your talking a long wait would be say if your looking for a boob job, or your an overwieght, smoker that drinks like a fish, and you seem to want a new liver/kidney while there are people who probably didn't self inflict said injury on themselves would be put well ahead of you.

edit
more annoying is that these fucktards, bad mouth the union and talk about how single payer would be bad, and our excelletn union pension and health care programs have been the biggest fight point in the past contracts.

[PainRack]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.
My dissatisfaction is with the fact that the insurance didn't initially want to pay for a generic drug, despite the drug being prescribed for GI bleeding.
I was surprised that they required 'pre approval' for a generic drug.
As far as generics go, I prefer them simply because a generic fill costs me $10 instead of $25 or $40.

Ok...... In that case, another question. Isn't Protonix the brand name for Pantoprazole?

The thing such rhetoric glosses over is the fact that in a socialized system people are encouraged to use preventive medicine more: since you can go to a doctor to get checked out at any time, maybe with a small fee in some systems, then when a person gets, say, chest pains, he just goes to the doc's office at the nearest opportunity. Often, the additional waiting period for an appointment with a specialist is offset by the fact the patient went to get checked out early, and can still afford to wait two weeks without the problem becoming deadly.

While I understand that some American HMOs encourage you to use preventive medicine under their plans, others don't, and many people don't have any insurance at all, thus they wait untill the problem becomes worse, and end up in the emergency room.

To be fair, people still don't like going to the doctors and given the closures in some more remote areas of the NHS and it being in the red, there is some backing behind the argument that a fully socialised healthcare system may not be finanicially sustainable as it can't meet all the demand there is.

[mr friendly guy]

According to wiki (ok a dubious source) protonix is pantoprazole. The original PPI drug and the one I would have thought be generic is omeprazole.

In any event at my hospital we are encourage to prescribe pantoprazole. Because we do a sweet deal with the drug company and we get it cheap. IIRC there may be some differences in PPIs, but that was with rabeprazole.