Roman Catholic Church Brutalized Irish Children.

[Big Orange]

BBC (video included with article)

Irish church knew abuse 'endemic'

An inquiry into child abuse at Catholic institutions in Ireland has found church leaders knew that sexual abuse was "endemic" in boys' institutions.

It also found physical and emotional abuse and neglect were features of institutions.

Schools were run "in a severe, regimented manner that imposed unreasonable and oppressive discipline on children and even on staff".

The nine-year inquiry investigated a 60-year period.

About 35,000 children were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses up to the 1980s.

More than 2,000 told the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse they suffered physical and sexual abuse while there.

The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, said he was "profoundly sorry and deeply ashamed that children suffered in such awful ways in these institutions".

"This report makes it clear that great wrong and hurt were caused to some of the most vulnerable children in our society," he said.

"It documents a shameful catalogue of cruelty: neglect, physical, sexual and emotional abuse, perpetrated against children."

The five-volume study concluded that church officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders' paedophiles from arrest amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

It also found that government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.

The findings will not be used for criminal prosecutions - in part because the Christian Brothers successfully sued the commission in 2004 to keep the identities of all of its members, dead or alive, unnamed in the report.

No real names, whether of victims or perpetrators, appear in the final document.

Police were called to the commission's news conference amid angry scenes as victims were prevented from attending.

One of the many victims, John Walsh of Irish Survivors of Child Abuse, said the absence of prosecutions had left him feeling "cheated and deceived".

"I would have never opened my wounds if I'd known this was going to be the end result," he said.

"It has devastated me and will devastate most victims because there are no criminal proceedings and no accountability whatsoever."

More allegations were made against the Christian Brothers than the other male orders combined.

The report found child safety was not a priority for the Christian Brothers who ran the institutions, the order was defensive in its response to complaints and failed to accept any congregational responsibility for abuse.

Ritual beatings

The report said that girls supervised by orders of nuns, chiefly the Sisters of Mercy, suffered much less sexual abuse but frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.

The leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, the Most Reverend Vincent Nichols, said those who perpetrated violence and abuse should be held to account, "no matter how long ago it happened".

"Every time there is a single incident of abuse in the Catholic Church, it is a scandal. I would be very worried if it wasn't a scandal... I hope these things don't happen again, but I hope they're never a matter of indifference," he said.

The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential.

"The reformatory and industrial schools depended on rigid control by means of severe corporal punishment and the fear of such punishment," it said.

"The harshness of the regime was inculcated into the culture of the schools by successive generations of brothers, priests and nuns.

"It was systemic and not the result of individual breaches by persons who operated outside lawful and acceptable boundaries.

"Excesses of punishment generated the fear that the school authorities believed to be essential for the maintenance of order."

The report proposed 21 ways the government could recognise past wrongs, including building a permanent memorial, providing counselling and education to victims, and improving Ireland's current child protection services.

It make me physically sick, but sadly doesn't colour me surprised. A whole pile of reasons in a huge mountain range of reasons why the Roman Catholic Church sucks. And the institutional brutalization of thousands of Irish children continued as comparatively recently as the 1980s, if not the early to mid 1990s. Then again institutional childcare of any stripe seems to attract all kinds of weirdos, deviants, and sociopaths, but then you can have sick fuck fathers like that Austrian fellow.

[Aaron]

I can't say that I'm shocked, similar abuses were systemic in Canada's residential school system. No one gave a shit either until recently because they were Natives. It makes me wonder how long and how many lives the RCC has ruined with this shit.

[TithonusSyndrome]

And yeah, it ain't pretty

Irish State officials stood idly by as thousands of children were subjected to a horrific litany of physical and sexual abuse in institutions run by religious orders.

The damning report by the Ryan Commission, published yesterday, found the Irish Department of Education did nothing to prevent a staggering cycle of abuse spanning more than half a century in the Republic.

But the findings failed to satisfy many victims who criticised the report for concealing the identities of abusers.

More than 1,000 victims also refused to give evidence or cooperate with two key committees set up by the commission amid claims that it was too adversarial and legalistic.

The report found government officials were aware of widespread physical, emotional and sexual trauma inflicted on children by Catholic priests, brothers and nuns. But instead of tackling the problem, complaints by parents and others were not properly investigated by the department.

The €60m report follows almost 10 years of work by the commission which dealt with complaints from former residents of predominantly Catholic institutions dating back to 1936.

More than 200 institutions and 1,800 reports of abuse were examined by the commission chaired by Mr Justice Sean Ryan.

But the inquiry was hampered by the unexplained disappearance of files on almost three-quarters of the children admitted to the institutions under investigation.

The report found:

l More than 25,000 children were sent to 55 industrial and reformatory schools — for ‘crimes’ such as missing school, committing offences or mainly because they were needy or poor — in the years between 1937 and 1978.

l Files related to 18,000 children sent to these schools and other church run institutions are missing from the Department of Education.

l Sexual abuse was endemic in boys’ institutions. It was identified as a “chronic” problem in industrial schools in Artane, Dublin and Letterfrack in Co Galway.

l Corporal punishment was widespread at institutions throughout the country and used in the belief that instilling fear in the pupils was essential to keep order.

l The “deferential” and “submissive” attitude of the Department of Education towards religious orders allowed the abuse to continue unchecked.

l The most vulnerable children — the poor, the abandoned, the neglected — suffered “disturbing” levels of abuse.

The commission also called for a memorial — inscribed with the words of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s 1999 apology to the victims of abuse — to be erected as permanent public acknowledgement of their experiences.

The launch of the report was marred by chaotic scenes at a Dublin hotel where some of the victims and groups representing them were denied access to the press conference launch.

The commission found the harshness of the regime was ingrained in the culture of the schools.

Corporal punishment was the option of first resort for breaches of discipline.

“Prolonged, excessive beatings with implements intended to cause maximum pain occurred with the knowledge of staff management. Individual brothers, priests or lay staff who were extreme in their punishments were tolerated by management and their behaviour was rarely challenged,” the commission found.

Children who absconded and were caught ended up being severely beaten, sometimes publicly. Some also had their heads shaved.

Neither the Department of Education nor the schools investigated the reasons children ran away — leading to cases of absconding related to chronic sexual or physical abuse going undetected.

The commission found that instead of investigating complaints the department “sought to protect and defend the religious congregations and the school”.

Department officials had a deferential and submissive attitude towards the religious orders which compromised their ability to carry out statutory monitoring and inspection of schools runs by the religious orders.

The report also found the system of funding of industrial schools helped perpetuate the problems. It found sexual abuse was “endemic” in boys’ institutions, but not in girls’ schools.

Documents uncovered by the commission found that sexual abusers were often long-term offenders who repeatedly abused children wherever they worked.

When confronted with evidence of sexual abuse, the response of the religious authorities was to transfer the offender to another location.

Religious orders covered up cases and were more worried about the potential for scandal and bad publicity than the danger to children.

I doubt I could add much without veering into internet toughguy territory out of outrage, so I'll let my better judgment prevail instead.

[TithonusSyndrome]

I posted this already.

[Edi]

I posted this already.

Yes, you did, only your thread was the repost. Since the articles were from different sources, threads merged.

[The Yosemite Bear]

anyone ever see the documentry "Sex in a Cold Clime" yeah the title got me to watch, the content sickened me, and made me outraged....

[[R_H]]

Almost as disgusting as the people that do this, are those that defend them (the apologists, not the lawyers). I can remember reading about a case in Germany where people donated money to priest (for court costs) charged with pedophilia. That's just mindboggling.

Not necessarily: the people who donated money may not have believed that the priest in question was guilty, which would be a reason enough to donate, if they felt strongly enough about their cause. On face value, that doesn't imply any malice or stupidity on their part, since before someone is sentenced in a court of law, he or she is supposed to be innocent, even of such heinous and inflammatory act as having sex with someone underage. Of course, one could and probably should question their reasoning, given the poor track record of the Roman Catholic Church on this issue...

"Even within the church, there remains to this day a broad group of supporters consisting of priests and members of religious orders," Karl Hillenbrand, the current vicar general of Würzburg, admits. "These people encourage him and even support him financially." A number of gullible Catholic women paid Weiss's first fine of 8,000 German marks.

from The Spiegel

He was previously convicted in the mid-eighties (that's when the women paid that fine), the RCC did it's usual thing and moved him to another diocese, and then he molested children again. He also tried to get his victims to change their testimonies.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Where is that snivelling cunt Chicken, to defend his church now.

Some things are just can't be defended.

[The Yosemite Bear]

My mom's catholic, and her attitudes about those kinds of priests is about equal to my stepdad's attitude about Lt. Caffey and Mai-Lai, or the soldiers at Abu-Ghraib, or most cops I know about the few brothers in blue that have been convicted of rape, or spousal abuse. Of course strangely in none of those cases do they find something wrong with the chain of command that allows such behavior to happen in the first place....

[K. A. Pital]

Split all the backseat modding, Solo and Chicken discussion into HoS. The on-topic parts of the posts are collateral damage. When going into this thread next time, try to stay on-topic and offer contributions. If you want to bash someone, Testing is always there.

[Stark]

Can anyone link to the original suit by a religious organisation that resulting in the government (ie, the law) being 'forced' to not identify or prosecute anyone? Is this sort of thing normal? What was the fucking point, then?

[Tiriol]

Almost as disgusting as the people that do this, are those that defend them (the apologists, not the lawyers). I can remember reading about a case in Germany where people donated money to priest (for court costs) charged with pedophilia. That's just mindboggling.

Not necessarily: the people who donated money may not have believed that the priest in question was guilty, which would be a reason enough to donate, if they felt strongly enough about their cause. On face value, that doesn't imply any malice or stupidity on their part, since before someone is sentenced in a court of law, he or she is supposed to be innocent, even of such heinous and inflammatory act as having sex with someone underage. Of course, one could and probably should question their reasoning, given the poor track record of the Roman Catholic Church on this issue...

"Even within the church, there remains to this day a broad group of supporters consisting of priests and members of religious orders," Karl Hillenbrand, the current vicar general of Würzburg, admits. "These people encourage him and even support him financially." A number of gullible Catholic women paid Weiss's first fine of 8,000 German marks.

from The Spiegel

He was previously convicted in the mid-eighties (that's when the women paid that fine), the RCC did it's usual thing and moved him to another diocese, and then he molested children again. He also tried to get his victims to change their testimonies.

With this new information in mind, I must say that the priest's supporters are more than little deluded and disgusting and hence, my point does not apply to this case. Thanks for the additional info.

[The Yosemite Bear]

mind you being sent to a catholic school here in th US seems the fastest way to make a kid agnostic, or at least hating religious hierarchy. Something about physical abuse, including minor brain damage and loosing baby teeth before my mom pulled me out. Of course playing against St. Mary's kids in futball in high school was fun. (one of the few regular public high school kids that would play against the Irish and South American kids after school and keep up with the game.)

[Big Orange]

It is not only in Ireland, but the Catholic Church covers its more deviant members alot in Latin America as well, where there is a far higher number of more desperately poor and vulnurable communities to exploit (with more vindictive ignorance and malice aimed at child victims, which is typical).

[Darth Wong]

One thing we in modern countries often fail to understand is that in backward societies, the church is considered a really important institution, and its well-being is considered more important than the well-being of any individuals who may be harmed by its actions. The otherwise incomprehensible actions of the people who defend these priests make more sense in that context. They're just as abhorrent, but at least you can grasp their motivations.

[Big Orange]

The more extreme Catholics seem to be get more outraged by petty slights than the genuine outrages inflicted against the innocent. In Latin America I have the impression that raped boys are given a similar amount of contempt by their peers to adult criminals getting raped in prison.

[TithonusSyndrome]

It is not only in Ireland, but the Catholic Church covers its more deviant members alot in Latin America as well, where there is a far higher number of more desperately poor and vulnurable communities to exploit (with more vindictive ignorance and malice aimed at child victims, which is typical).

If there was ever a more damning and overwhelming fact pointing towards the Church as only being "progressive" when it needs to be in countries that would run it out on a rail it if didn't, and continuing whatever wanton abuses it cares to in countries that can't refuse it's presence, this would be it. Moderatism is a phenomenon that exists only in countries where religion needs to remain competitive with secularism, not something the Church (or most any religion) genuinely considers a sensible belief.

[Oskuro]

I wasn't paying much attention to this issue, until I found the following gem in a local news outlet:
Link(Spanish)

Monseñor Cañizares says that the abuses of the Irish clergy are not as serious as the issue of Abortion.

The cardinal prefect for the Congregación por el Culto Divino y la Disciplina de los Sacramentos, Antonio Cañizares, considered that the case of minors being abused in irish catholic schools between the 50's and 80's 2 "is not comparable" with abortion, since the former affects "a handful of schools" while the later means that "more than 40 million human beings have been destroyed legally".

(Excerpt translated by yours truly)

This guy is known around here for his extremely backwards points of view, and tendency to open his mouth and spout all kinds of bigoted nonsense. It's worth mentioning that government officials have, in essence, said he should shut the fuck up and mind his own bussiness. Not that him, or those like him, will ever listen.

[Lord Pounder]

As bad as the Catholic Church is, and they are vile, the Irish Government has a lot to answer for for allowing the various paedophiles and abusive scum get away without being named, the victims brushed under the carpet.

I got this video on You Tube of one of the victims reactions towards the way the Ryan Report was even carried out recorded on an Irish talk show.

Link

Of particular note is the fact that neither the Fianna Fáil or Fianna Gáel representatives applauded that poor man at the end. I feel genuinely ill now.

[Darth Wong]

As bad as the Catholic Church is, and they are vile, the Irish Government has a lot to answer for for allowing the various paedophiles and abusive scum get away without being named, the victims brushed under the carpet.

The Catholic Church and the Irish Government are separate organizations?

[Lord Pounder]

As bad as the Catholic Church is, and they are vile, the Irish Government has a lot to answer for for allowing the various paedophiles and abusive scum get away without being named, the victims brushed under the carpet.

The Catholic Church and the Irish Government are separate organizations?

In principal yes Ireland is on paper a Socialist Republic, however in the aftermath of the Irish Rebellion de Valera the first Taoiseach gave the Catholic Church a lot of power over the running of the country in return for their support, until quite recently the Dáil Éireann was just a puppet show that jumped when the church said jump.

It's only in the last 20 years that these various work houses and reformatory's involved in the Ryan Report where shut down and only in the last 10 - 15 years where chemists and pubs allowed to sell condoms.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Despite formerly being a first world nation's heavy industrial yard, Ireland is still trying to get out of the 3rd world economy.

[NecronLord]

In principal yes Ireland is on paper a Socialist Republic,

CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial, [...]

On paper it looks a hell of a lot like it explicitly and absolutely endorses Christianity.

Moving on... I shall now do something rate, and tell a long, rambling anecdote.

Having gone to a Christian Brothers school, even in England, I can tell you, every child knew the Brothers (there was only one left in any kind of teaching position though, of all things, he ran the computer network for a while, personally, I liked him, though his replacement taught me far more) were capable of considerable violence. I never heard of actual violence while I was there of course¹ but in 'olden days' they used to throw things at children and so forth. Or so it was said among the pupils, and well known. If stories about Christian Brothers throwing board erasers by which of course, I mean the old fashioned wooden ones not today's light plastic whiteboard erasers, at childrens' heads from across the room remained persistant years after most of them had left, I find it hard to imagine that parents and such would be unaware of them at the time, even if the children victimised were mostly those in care and so on. In short, the idea that parents weren't highly complict in at least the mundane physical abuse involved,as advanced by some apologists, is farcical.

Of course, cultures of physical abuse have been perceived as effective for motivating children² in far more than Catholic schools. The thing that's really quintessentially Catholic is the revolting sexual element of so much of this.

The expectation of celibacy in the Catholic church remains to me, inexplicable. Not only does it put off their recruits, but I would hazard that it also serves to encourage sexual abuse. If there's one thing that truly deconverted me from religion, even more than it's the almost pornographic fixation so many of the monotheistic (and some, though not all, polytheistic) religions seem to have of sexual control, and not in a wholesome, kinky way, either, going so far as to actually mutilate babies as a 'sign of covenant' or whatever. Around the same time I really discovered sexuality, I stopped believing in god completely.


¹ If only because they'd never have gotten away with it. My mother went in and told them off for punishing me for not praying in class once - during the Kosovo war, when we were all expected to pray for the KLA. Upon being told of this, she promptly went in and told them that the KLA were a shower of murderous terrorists who should be lined up and shot. In roughly those words. I treasure the teacher's reaction to this day - I just wish I could have seen the teacher's reaction when she saw this year's news articles about our heroic KLA friends.
² They had a moronic policy of going for extra funding by forcing even the uninterested students to learn additional foreign languages. Behaviour in the second foreign language (this is England, after all) was abominable. On one occasion, the aforementioned Christian Brother had to substitute-teach that class. It was the only occasion I remember where it was actually well behaved. Clearly an example, albeit anecdotal, of the fear of force working. Which is not an endorsement.

[NecronLord]

Despite formerly being a first world nation's heavy industrial yard, Ireland is still trying to get out of the 3rd world economy.

Ireland's economy is a long way from third world. It has one of the world's highest GDP per capitas. It is above the UK, France, Japan and Germany. Ireland's attitude to religion, on the other hand, is well, worshipful. Of course, it has only comparatively recently developed this economy, and it's my understanding that the popularity of the Church is falling off, especially among the young.

[Darth Wong]

Despite formerly being a first world nation's heavy industrial yard, Ireland is still trying to get out of the 3rd world economy.

Ireland's economy is a long way from third world. It has one of the world's highest GDP per capitas. It is above the UK, France, Japan and Germany.

It also has an incredibly high 10:1 ratio of external debt to GDP. How much of that GDP is actually the result of deficit spending and is, therefore, arguably fictitious? Americans are terrified because their external debt is nearly as large as their GDP. In Ireland, it's ten times their GDP. That sounds pretty Third World to me.

Ireland's attitude to religion, on the other hand, is well, worshipful. Of course, it has only comparatively recently developed this economy, and it's my understanding that the popularity of the Church is falling off, especially among the young.

One would hope so. But they've got a loooong way to go.