[Discussion]Schuyler Colfax

[Thanas]

Oh I didn't mean to imply that it was strange to bring it up in the Senate, but that it would be difficult to make a decision on without the guidance of 'broke xyz rule'. I agree that if people have a problem with him it's worth discussing.

Ah, okay.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Stark]

I think this falls under the category best described by IR.3

These rules are here to tell you what you can and can't do, but they do not define "rights" which you can throw in the faces of the administrative staff if they have agreed that you've done something wrong. We have added retroactive rules in the past (eg- the rule about large sigs or harassing females via PM) due to the actions of individual members, and rest assured, we are perfectly willing to do so again. In other words, this is not a court of law. If you find a loophole in our rules, don't be too pleased with yourself because we will simply close it, and then shove it up your ass.

So yeah consider it a retroactive form of "stupid trolls may be punished" rule without getting into whether his posts actually violate the PRs and DRs. The point with the rules has always been to serve as a guideline with a reminder that if you do stupid shit we may do shit back to you.

Thanks, Wilkens, that's a good approach to take.

Don't apologise, Thanas, I don't think I was very clear in my post. I'm happy to see the Senate take on more non-rules violation issues, but it's a case for a lot of discussion and deliberation.

[CmdrWilkens]

Thanks, Wilkens, that's a good approach to take.

Don't apologise, Thanas, I don't think I was very clear in my post. I'm happy to see the Senate take on more non-rules violation issues, but it's a case for a lot of discussion and deliberation.

Let me add my concurrence, as I said on the previous page I don't want to even think about a vote before we've at least had the weekend to think about things. I think we certainly should really dig in to a) what can we do to actually acheive a result and b) which of those is going to work best

[Stark]

Havok has this to say -

Since my name has been brought up and since SC (incorrectly) referred to me in his PM, I will address this issue.

I have spent the better part of a year, if not longer attempting to give Colfax advice, not just for use on the board, but in actual RL as well. I stuck up for him when he was indeed getting picked on when his name was Elite Pwnage. I can't even count how many times I tried to get people to stop fucking with him.

When Pablo granted him a name change he had a fresh start, so to speak. The change was good, and at the time he seemed to be making some positive progress. He still had a short leash with many and didn't have much of a margin of error for when he would give an opinion without thinking it through, but he was quick to recognize his mistakes and try to fix them.

However he soon fell back into his old habits. I still stuck up for him and tried to help him. (Stark was referring to me as St. Hav for a while because of the help, benefit of the doubt and defense I tried to give him.) I attempted to give him another clean slate by giving him another name change to further distance him from EP with the knew knickname Tubbs (See Miami Vice) and tried to get the other board members, especially those who had the most contact with him in Testing, to cut him some slack and stop automatically jumping on him for every single dumb thing he said, which no one else on the board had to endure on such a level.

This worked for a time, but again, he fell back into his old habits, all of which Thanas pointed out in the OP. Still, I stuck up for him and offered advice. However once again his behavior deteriorated back to EP form and I finally got sick of defending him, giving him the benefit of the doubt, offering advice and doubting that he is just an attention whore.

In fact this whole thread is exactly what SC appears to crave IMO. Those that don't frequent Testing really have no idea how often he pulls his schtick. The autodelete function works well in his favor in that regard. It is constant and tiresome.

If we look at what SC himself has said in his PM to Knife, you can see that there is no reason that he shouldn't be banned from the board.

- He doesn't and never has felt a need to contribute.

- He just is on the board to screw around in testing. (Some people may interpret that as trolling, and IIRC he has actually admitted as much.)

- He himself feels that he visits the board too often.

- This is not, nor will it ever be his main social circle/contact. (So he isn't going to be missing anything by not being here with the exception of Testing, which again, he feels he is spending too much time in and is willing to give up)

- He promises change (which we have seen promised before) and is looking to drag this whole thing out another year in the process.

Basically, in my opinion, he doesn't benefit from being here, nor does the board or its members benefit from him being here.

Take this as you will from one of the people that have tried to help SC already.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Havok has this to say -

... If we look at what SC himself has said in his PM to Knife, you can see that there is no reason that he shouldn't be banned from the board.

- He doesn't and never has felt a need to contribute.

- He just is on the board to screw around in testing. (Some people may interpret that as trolling, and IIRC he has actually admitted as much.)

- He himself feels that he visits the board too often.

- This is not, nor will it ever be his main social circle/contact. (So he isn't going to be missing anything by not being here with the exception of Testing, which again, he feels he is spending too much time in and is willing to give up)

- He promises change (which we have seen promised before) and is looking to drag this whole thing out another year in the process.

Basically, in my opinion, he doesn't benefit from being here, nor does the board or its members benefit from him being here.

Take this as you will from one of the people that have tried to help SC already.

I agree with Havok's analysis of EP/SC's PM. It claims that he'll essentially try to temp-ban himself (with disclaimer, I might add,) maybe get out more, and maybe he'll get better. Near as I can tell, he hasn't shown a lot of improvement in nearly three years of being here. Looking at his first few posts on his board, and the posts he generates lately: Were it not for the vastly different time/date stamps and the improved grammar, they'd be interchangeable. This would be fine if he had a signal-to-noise ratio greater than 1, which he most decidedly does not. As has been said numerous times in this thread, he's been given quite a few chances to shape up already, and people have repeatedly tried to be helpful to him. His PM, combined with his history to this point, aren't giving me warm fuzzy feelings regarding his potential for future improvement here.

[Stark]

SC has sent me a PM as a 'reply' to the discussion in this thread. Is posting such acceptable?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

SC has sent me a PM as a 'reply' to the discussion in this thread. Is posting such acceptable?

If he gave you permission to repost it, then yes.

[Stark]

My concern was this might open the floodgates for this thread to turn into a proxy discussion with SC rather than deliberation about the facts present. Regardless,

Hmm, this didn't exactly pan out the way I thought it would, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Talking about this should be kind of fun, gives me the chance to discuss and look back on what I've done here the past 2 1/2 years. Not that I'm making light of this, I'm just looking at the light side of it. Honestly speaking, my first letter was poorly constructed and I definitely should have spent more time on it.

But by reading your responses, I can see that most of you missed the point of it. The main point of my letter lied within the beginning and middle of the letter, the end was just an afterthought.

Hav, you and I need to exchange words, because your 'analysis' of my letter is complete bullshit and I intend on showing you why.

Just give me until Saturday to make my case (trust me, it will be worth reading). I'm mainly saying all of this to let everyone know that I want to be an active participant in this discussions.

And when that poll thread is made, whatever happens happens.

Interesting day, I'm going to bed now.

[Knife]

SC has sent me a PM as a 'reply' to the discussion in this thread. Is posting such acceptable?

I have a hard time understanding why someone would send you a PM on these matters without wanting to copy/paste it here. That said, ... OK SC, we'll see.

[Coyote]

Well, I've since had another PM from someone willing to help mentor him; now I am interested in seeing what SC's rationale is this Saturday.

I think it is obvious that many people here are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and work with him if that is something he wants and values; again, if he were just viewed as a useless bum there'd be none of this talk-- he'd just be out. I'm interested in gearing what Colefax himself would like from this place. I'm always pleased to have someone come around and join the community... odd and dysfunctional though we may be!

[Patrick Degan]

Colfax has never been on my radar-screen all that much. I think I may have had one short dustup with him in a political thread but can't remember for certain. So I don't have a particular issue or history with this poster. Examining the evidence presented, however, I cannot say that he's done very well for himself in his time here at SDNet. Many of his postings have been nothing but a waste of bandwidth, though it seems more out of an inability to communicate properly and a basic immaturity rather than malice.

That being said, if Colfax needs mentoring, he needs to find it in the real world. That is not a function we can fulfill or should agree to undertake, given that participation on a BBS is bound up with whatever personality problems he might have. We would not help him in doing so, and as he has a history of not taking advice from board members or mods no matter how well-meaning or subtly delivered, the effort would be wasted.

Give him his chance to withdraw for the summer and to stay away for the time he says he will. That is the final test: if he cannot manage to live up to his word on that, then a temp-ban for one year, loss of sig and avatar, and a resetting of his post-count to zero would be appropriate.

[Coyote]

Here is a PM from Bluewolf (he said to use his name) who brings some insight--

Though I can't say that much more than what has already been said, nor the fact that I have been a model poster myself I feel that a temp ban and a title change would not be a bad option. Having been banned for a year, I know what its like to be booted off and I also know about the concern about him just lurking for the period of the temp ban. Though for different reasons to what Colfax may lurk for, I did it myself. This does have a chance to undermine a temp ban (in the aspects of getting him away from the forum and to stop him acting like an idiot). In this respect I think that you'd also have to add something on top of a temp ban to make any reform work.

For a start, you’re going to have to have a long length on a temp ban. If it’s too short he may just wait it out instead of doing something else with his life. 8-12 months may work. You may say that I am being harsh or I am bitter but if you really want to give him time to reform his social circle, get on with his life and let him mature then your going to have to make that ban last. On top of that, when he does get back here we should possibly be a title. See how he does and if he has not changed, boot him.

Another idea is to give him a shorter temp ban, say 6 months then when he comes back, title him and reset his post count. In that sense all his non testing stupidity is wiped while giving him the incentive get rid of that VI title of him via decent posts.

I also think that trying to play psychologist and monitor him actively is not going to work at all. Let’s face it, how many of us are really qualified to try and sort his life out? If he needs help then it has to be professional, not by a bunch of people on a forum. I know the people who have it have good intensions while I also know that keeping an eye on him is good but in the end, the urge to sort himself out has to come from Colfax. All we can do is push him along a bit.

Sadly I feel as if Colfax is personally clueless to all this. Talking to him off this forum and on gives me the impression that he has the wrong idea of how to act or that he is just stupid enough not to reform. In the end like I mentioned, it’s him who has to wake up and sort himself out.

I hope that helped.

[Simplicius]

I got a PM offer to serve as a mentor as well, though it was back on Thursday after my telecom service cut out.

I doubt his "I will back off the board for xyz time" offer because he tried it once before, and did not come through. He posted his intent, stated a period of time for which he would step back, everyone else who posted in the thread told him it was a good idea and good luck, and he stopped posting - and then was back on the board well before his stated return date. He can't even make the commitment in his present offer: "...(give or take a hand full of post [sic])..."

How much is a handful? What kind of posts, in what forum? He can't even make a commitment not to post for a mere three months without giving himself an escape clause, and he has already failed at such a commitment in the past (and I wish I could remember just how long he lasted.) I fail to see what makes his present offer any more valuable than his past ones, though his defense/explanation is welcome.

To reiterate my earlier opinion: His presence here hasn't helped him become a better board member, and it hasn't done much for the rest of us either - alienate some of our more tolerant members, irritate a whole lot of others, and give still more an excuse to spam. He'd have to come through in spades, starting immediately, for anything other than axing him for a while to be my preferred option.

[Simplicius]

Here's a statement by Colfax:

I wanted to take up until Saturday so I can hit up more of the points brought up so here you go.

I’ll start with some of the points Thanas brought up.

attention-whoring for a photoshop job here

– How is saying ‘hey I need help with my school project’ attention whoring?

An accurate description of his thought process, straight from the gentleman himself.

Yeah, I drift off in my wandering mind a lot, so what I’m crazy for that?

making inmature "wii" jokes in this thread. Sadly, being an immature brat is one of the gentleman's many problems.
starting a "biggest fuckup thread" that went downhill after this post.

That’s just hitting below the belt, I’m I’ll give you those two points, but that’s hitting below the belt. It physical hurts seeing those two threads.

Edi

The Writers' Guild incident came about precisely because of that. I was brusque perhaps, but not malicious and I handled it privately at first precisely because I knew how it was with him and the other board members. I wanted him to know what his behavior looked like to an outsider without all the hurf-hurf bullshit, but I was not going to go out of my way to take any ego or hurt feelings issues into account. I aired the dirty laundry in public once it was clear that it was going to be an issue behind my back otherwise.

My only issue with was stated right in this post.

Pretty harsh choice of words Edi (you know what I'm talking about).

It was that simple. I ‘flipped out’ because it felt like you were accusing me of things I didn’t do. I didn’t think talking about it in chat was big deal because it was off board. My bad,

Thanas

His debating skills are practically nonexistent, which allows even otherwise clueless nobodys to pound him to a pulp.

In testing.

As such, he is getting flamed in about 100% of the threads.

In testing.

Too many hours of advice have been wasted by countless people on him.

Hours???

Havok

He doesn't and never has felt a need to contribute.

Bullfuckingshit I never contributed. I threw in my two cents in countless threads, whether it about a news story or a stupid rar. If it was a topic I could get behind then yes, I would say something.

He just is on the board to screw around in testing.

If you’re going to generalize all of my points, at least try to make it less obvious. Sure as of late, it may seem that way, but it hasn’t always been like that.

He himself feels that he visits the board too often.

I highly doubt I’m the only person on this board that feels that way.

This is not, nor will it ever be his main social circle/contact.

Which I was saying in response to

with the command to go out and meet real friends in the real world.

The original quote was me saying, I have friends in the real world, and you guys aren’t my only social connection, because I’m getting the impression that some of you actually feel that way.

Basically, in my opinion, he doesn't benefit from being here, nor does the board or its members benefit from him being here.

I like this board, it’s exciting.

Bluewolf

Though I can't say that much more than what has already been said, nor the fact that I have been a model poster myself I feel that a temp ban and a title change would not be a bad option. Having been banned for a year, I know what its like to be booted off and I also know about the concern about him just lurking for the period of the temp ban.

You and I are not the same person, so what may have worked for you, might not work for me. You were banned for a complete different reason then what I might be banned for.

This is the part that will either work or completely fuck me over, but hey I’m just being honest.

Remind me to never take the psychology class that you all took apparently. Finding out what my problem is would be as simple as asking me what my problem is. So I’ll tell you.

Lately, on SDN I realized that if I didn’t post anything on a certain topic, no one would really care, hence me not really feeling the need to contribute (not that I haven’t done so Havok). I never felt that there was a ‘contribute to the board or else’ type thing about this board. So I stopped coming to this board for the original reason that I joined, to practice my debating skills, improve my writing (not that I ever really worked on that), and actually be a nerd in good environment while making some ‘friends’ in the process. As of late, I’ve been finding myself with a ridiculous amount of free time. No matter how much I went out, spent time doing homework, reading, playing videogames, nothing filled in that void. So I started using Testing as an excuse to kill time. I started trolling Testing and chat for shits and giggles, and while it did piss off a lot of people; I still felt that I could get away with it. So I will apologize for treating Testing like it was 4chan. Most of my actions aren’t the result of some psychological deficiency; it’s a result of me being lazy as fuck and me being a selfish asshole. It was like poking a bear, but the bear never did anything about it. I wasn’t doing it for attention; I was doing it because I thought I could get away with it.

Now most of you say I flip out at you when you give me advice. There’s a reason it is just some of you and not all of you. This somewhat relates to the point I made in my first ‘letter’.

My biggest flaw (in my opinion) is that I feel the need to be right rather than accept the way things are and be happy. Looking around the board I often wonder why is Coffee (just an example, not a cheap shot) allowed to be asshole to everyone and curse them all out, and yet when I do it (not trying to be like him at all), I get called an internet tough guy. Or why did I get so much crap for calling someone (insert expletive) even though when that same someone calls me (insert even worse expletive) no one bats an eye and it assumed that they were just joking (looking at you sdn chat). My answer to that is I don’t care anymore; I’m just going to go along with it.

How the hell is Enigma for example going to tell me to grow up and call me immature when his title is ‘licks his balls’? Sorry, but I kind of feel obliged to tell someone with that subtitle who calls me immature to go fuck himself. Enigma, go fuck yourself. That’s the reason for most of my ‘flipouts’.

Now when I said that I would take the summer to get my shit together, I meant that I would take the summer to fill in that void, and stop treating SDN like its 4chan. I’m going to be busy as hell once the school year starts (I literally fucked myself with the all the worked I signed up to do). Its just that once the summer starts I would probably do what Flagg said I would do in this quote

The worst part? Summer vacation is coming up for him so he'll be off of school. That means we have more of his bullshit to look forward to in chat and probably the board.

I’d probably take that summer to probably work on my writing, study for the shitstorm that is coming my way next school year, look into colleges, find out what I’m going to major in, do something SAT practice, hangout with friends, and give the girlfriend thing a try, among other things.

And through all of that I’d still find time to lurk on this site, and maybe get myself to enjoy it the way I used to. I mean no matter how busy I am, I always make time for the internet.

Yes at one point, I was troll, but I’m not anymore, I did take your advice I just never proved it and I will apologize for that. Though I still am a socially awkward teenager.

Like I said, I do like the site, and if I were to get banned from it, that would suck a lot.

There, I know I’m guilty of some infractions so I doubt that I will get out of this unpunished, so senate, do what you got to do.

And if I have to do the mentoring thing, can it just be from one person, of my choosing from the volunteers given.

[Bounty]

I started trolling Testing and chat for shits and giggles

Odd as it may sound, I am sure he is lying about trolling either the chat or Testing. "It was a joke" is SC's standard excuse whenever his attempts at being either funny or 'cool' blow up in his face*, and I'm virtually sure he's using this admission of trolling as an excuse not to review his behaviour ("I was doing it deliberately wrong").

And this message gives me pretty much no hope that he has any interest in improving his behaviour. It may be time to start voting on a temp ban.

---
*EDIT: the worst example of this was when Colfax pretended to commit suicide in the Chat. When he realised he wasn't getting any attention, he slinked away, and to this day he refuses to admit any of it ever happened. It's his standard MO, he's doing it again here, and it is obvious he is not taking any of this seriously.

[Ghost Rider]

Lately, on SDN I realized that if I didn’t post anything on a certain topic, no one would really care, hence me not really feeling the need to contribute (not that I haven’t done so Havok). I never felt that there was a ‘contribute to the board or else’ type thing about this board. So I stopped coming to this board for the original reason that I joined, to practice my debating skills, improve my writing (not that I ever really worked on that), and actually be a nerd in good environment while making some ‘friends’ in the process. As of late, I’ve been finding myself with a ridiculous amount of free time. No matter how much I went out, spent time doing homework, reading, playing videogames, nothing filled in that void. So I started using Testing as an excuse to kill time. I started trolling Testing and chat for shits and giggles, and while it did piss off a lot of people; I still felt that I could get away with it. So I will apologize for treating Testing like it was 4chan. Most of my actions aren’t the result of some psychological deficiency; it’s a result of me being lazy as fuck and me being a selfish asshole. It was like poking a bear, but the bear never did anything about it. I wasn’t doing it for attention; I was doing it because I thought I could get away with it.

So let's see, he didn't get attention, needs something to fill the void of time so he goes to trolling for giggles.

So tell me, why shouldn't I press the nuke button? I am really trying hard to see what sort of useful anything we will get out of someone who make Shroom look stable and centered in one's activities.

[Simplicius]

I don't want to turn this into a conversation-by-proxy, so I'm not going to reply directly. However, it is apparent by his explanation that the gulf between his perception of himself and what he does, and the board's perception of same, is considerable. If he just doesn't get how the board works - specifically, can't understand why the rest of us see him as we do - what real hope is there that he can shape up on his own?

Yes at one point, I was troll, but I’m not anymore, I did take your advice I just never proved it and I will apologize for that.

Here's an example of him just not getting it. "I took your advice I just never proved it" - the notion of being judged by actions rather than words has sailed right over his head, never mind the fact that by "took" he evidently means "spit right back out."

[Thanas]

After reading that statement, I may just be ready to vote for a permanent ban. A few examples:

That’s just hitting below the belt, I’m I’ll give you those two points, but that’s hitting below the belt. It physical hurts seeing those two threads.

Why is pointing out his mistakes hitting below the belt? He acknowledges I am right, but it still is hitting below the belt? Newsflash - I don't care.

Pretty harsh choice of words Edi (you know what I'm talking about).

It was that simple. I ‘flipped out’ because it felt like you were accusing me of things I didn’t do. I didn’t think talking about it in chat was big deal because it was off board. My bad,

Colfax believes (believed?) badmouthing a supermod is no big deal if it is conducted in the SDNchat.

His debating skills are practically nonexistent, which allows even otherwise clueless nobodys to pound him to a pulp.

In testing.

As such, he is getting flamed in about 100% of the threads.

In testing.

Too many hours of advice have been wasted by countless people on him.

Hours???

Colfax believes that his behaviour is only a trouble in testing. I disagree and so does everybody who checks his posts.

I started trolling Testing and chat for shits and giggles, and while it did piss off a lot of people; I still felt that I could get away with it. So I will apologize for treating Testing like it was 4chan. Most of my actions aren’t the result of some psychological deficiency; it’s a result of me being lazy as fuck and me being a selfish asshole.

Colfax admits he trolled the board on purpose. Can I say permban?

It was like poking a bear, but the bear never did anything about it. I wasn’t doing it for attention; I was doing it because I thought I could get away with it.

And now he complains that the bear has caught up with him. Next friday I will give a concert on the worlds smallest violin in his honour.

How the hell is Enigma for example going to tell me to grow up and call me immature when his title is ‘licks his balls’? Sorry, but I kind of feel obliged to tell someone with that subtitle who calls me immature to go fuck himself. Enigma, go fuck yourself. That’s the reason for most of my ‘flipouts’.

Colfax once more doesn't get the point - titles do not mean anything. It is the conduct that matters, and despite his title enigma contributes to the board in ways colfax never ever did.


So yeah, when his response to Enigma's (very valid) points consist of "fuck you, you have a strange title", I felt that he is beyond saving and that we should deal with him for good.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Lately, on SDN I realized that if I didn’t post anything on a certain topic, no one would really care, hence me not really feeling the need to contribute (not that I haven’t done so Havok). I never felt that there was a ‘contribute to the board or else’ type thing about this board. So I stopped coming to this board for the original reason that I joined, to practice my debating skills, improve my writing (not that I ever really worked on that), and actually be a nerd in good environment while making some ‘friends’ in the process. As of late, I’ve been finding myself with a ridiculous amount of free time. No matter how much I went out, spent time doing homework, reading, playing videogames, nothing filled in that void. So I started using Testing as an excuse to kill time. I started trolling Testing and chat for shits and giggles, and while it did piss off a lot of people; I still felt that I could get away with it. So I will apologize for treating Testing like it was 4chan. Most of my actions aren’t the result of some psychological deficiency; it’s a result of me being lazy as fuck and me being a selfish asshole. It was like poking a bear, but the bear never did anything about it. I wasn’t doing it for attention; I was doing it because I thought I could get away with it.

So let's see, he didn't get attention, needs something to fill the void of time so he goes to trolling for giggles.

So tell me, why shouldn't I press the nuke button? I am really trying hard to see what sort of useful anything we will get out of someone who make Shroom look stable and centered in one's activities.

Um. Wow, just wow. I skimmed through the long statement in his defense, but somehow managed to miss this little gem. So in other words, he freely admits to trolling because he felt he could get away with it. Press the button from orbit, just to be sure.

[Mr Bean]

Per a request from Schuyler Colfax, I will now repost his "response" to this thread without comment(That comes later)

So clearly anything else I say in my defense will just make things worse, but I was just being honest (best policy, any of that?). I guess I never realized how much the board meant to me, until now, but of course I realize that at the likely threat of being kicked out. Oh well, since none of you will take my word on anything, I guess I can only let my actions speak for themselves at this point. By that I mean instead of saying I will contribute, why not just contribute. Here’s to hoping the last 2 ½ years have not all been for naught.

[Tiriol]

After following the discussion concerning the antics and behaviour of one formerly known as Elite Pwnage, currently as Schuyler Colfax, I must admit that I was more lenient than necessary in my first cursory glance at the whole discussion. All points that have been raised in this thread considered, I believe that a temporary ban might be in order, or even a permanent one, if the member Colfax has indeed been basically trolling the board for attention and because he felt he could get away with it.

If we decide that it is worthwile to help Colfax and that he should spend time away from the board, then a temporary ban is in order, since clearly continuing posting and viewing forums closed from the public would be too tempting for him (and as we have seen already, he doesn't have the self-control required to refrain from posting). And if his continued presence on the board would bring nothing to the discussion or would even generally decline the discussion and he has broken rules, then permanent ban is needed. I hope that if we decide to be lenient with this young one, he learns from the fact (a temporary ban; titling him would, at this point, do no good). And if not, I hope he learns from his mistakes here and avoids them elsewhere at least.

[Tiriol]

Per a request from Schuyler Colfax, I will now repost his "response" to this thread without comment(That comes later)

So clearly anything else I say in my defense will just make things worse, but I was just being honest (best policy, any of that?). I guess I never realized how much the board meant to me, until now, but of course I realize that at the likely threat of being kicked out. Oh well, since none of you will take my word on anything, I guess I can only let my actions speak for themselves at this point. By that I mean instead of saying I will contribute, why not just contribute. Here’s to hoping the last 2 ½ years have not all been for naught.

I'd say that the problem is that he already has allowed his actions to speak for himself, which is why his words are not easily trusted. Colfax, don't paint yourself into a martyr; it won't earn you any extra points.

[Edi]

By all indications, Schuyler Colfax still does not realize that by now, after his latest responses and the petulance displayed there, it doesn't much matter what he says anymore. We judge people by their actions and the time for even that looks to be passing swiftly.

I don't give a damn one way or another whether he is banned. Schuyler, I know you're reading this thread, so try for one last time understand: It doesn't matter what you think your actions look like or what your motivation was if everyone else perceives them in a different way. Improving your presentation of yourself is your problem, not some obligation on everyone else's part to cut you slack.

Stuart already spoke on this subject, but you look like you're headed full speed toward a very unpleasant collision with reality once you get out of the mollycoddled world of high school. If your actions and attitude in real life are anything like the appearance of yourself you have presented to the SDnet community, it is not a question of if it will happen but when it will happen. I had friends and family and a far more forgiving society than the US one to cushion me when I fell on hard times and I also knew myself enough to know what I had to do to fix things.

I have no cause to think your would achieve as good an outcome if you were faced with a similar situation. Try to change your path now when you still have options. Ten years from now you will have far fewer and it will be far more difficult.

[Coyote]

I don't know. Looking over all this, it looks part half the hullaballoo is... other people reacting to him. I mean, he's fairly honestly admitting to being the class clown essentially for kicks. Maybe it's because I haven't interacted with him much, but I see him as odd and not generally fitting in, but... in the long run, it is a webboard we all come to frequent for various reasons.

Should we move the bulk of this to HoC where SC can respond on his own? All this "by proxy" stuff is annoying, potentially confusing, and... allows a lot of us to artificially inflate postcount by saying "guess what *I* heard!?" second-hand. Feh.

[Stark]

Did you just say half the problem was people responding to posts full of crap or lies? Do you remember what the board is about?

Regardless, for better or worse there's a HoC thread now. If nothing else the level of resentment he's generated among people who have tried to help him improve should now become obvious to those who have never interacted with him or thought about it until this discussion.