Doctor Assassinated In Kansas Church

[SirNitram]

Link

WICHITA, Kan. — George Tiller, a Wichita doctor who was one of the few doctors in the nation to perform late-term abortions, was shot to death on Sunday as he attended church, city officials in Wichita said.

Dr. Tiller, who had performed abortions since the 1970s, had long been a lightning rod for controversy over the issue of abortion, particularly in Kansas, where abortion opponents regularly protested outside his clinic and sometimes his home and church. In 1993, he was shot in both arms by an abortion opponent but recovered.

He had also been the subject of many efforts at prosecution, including a citizen-initiated grand jury investigation. In the latest such effort, in March, Dr. Tiller was acquitted of charges that he had performed late-term abortions that violated state law.

The shooting occurred at around 10 a.m. (Central time) at Reformation Lutheran Church on the city’s East Side, Dr. Tiller’s regular church.

Wichita police said that the shots were fired from a handgun in the church lobby during the morning service. The authorities gave few details, but said they were searching for a powder blue Taurus made in the 1990s that had been seen leaving shortly after the shooting. They said witnesses had described seeing a white man departing.

“This is going to be a larger search than maybe just Wichita,” said Brent Allred, a police captain, who said that the FBI and state police had been called to the scene. By noon, few parishioners remained at the church, a modern, red brick facility that seats about 500 people. Police cars surrounded the building.

Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, an anti-abortion group that has led opposition to Dr. Tiller’s methods, denounced the killing on Sunday. “Our prayers go out to his family and the thousands of people this will impact,” Mr. Newman said in a telephone interview from his home in Wichita.

“Operation Rescue has worked tirelessly on peaceful, non-violent measures to bring him to justice through the legal system, the legislative system,” Mr. Newman said. “I’m a tireless advocate and spokesman for the pre-born children who are dying in clinics everyday. Mr. Tiller was an abortionist. But this wasn’t personal. We are pro life, and this act was antithetical to what we believe.”

Leaders of national abortion rights organizations, meanwhile, expressed outrage. Some described Dr. Tiller as one of the only doctors in the nation who performed third trimester abortions when the life or health of a mother was at stake, and said that his death would make it even harder for women in such circumstances to end their pregnancies.

“Dr. Tiller was a fearless, passionate defender of women’s reproductive health and rights,” said Nancy Northup, president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, based in New York, which had worked on a legal case related to Dr. Tiller. “It’s time that this nation stop demonizing these doctors, and start honoring them.”

At St. George Orthodox Christian Church, next door to Dr. Tiller’s church, members said they had often been concerned about being so close to a church that often was the scene of protests because of Dr. Tiller’s presence. Dr. Tiller had attended the church for a long time, they said, and had contributed significantly to construction of the current facility, which was built in about 1996.

“This is a God-fearing community,” said Mickey Cohlmia, who was at services at the neighboring church on Sunday morning and said she was horrified that such a thing had happened in Wichita, a city of about 358,000 in southern Kansas. “How does this scar everybody in his church?”

What do you know.. Cheney was right. Obama wins, and we have terrorists on American soil.

[Frank Hipper]

I'd go by Tiller's clinic in Wichita practically every day when I lived there, it's a little hard not to if you want to go from one side to another of that town.

Posters at Rapture Ready are climbing all over each other to denounce this.

If I were a pro-gun, right wing extremist, theocratic regressive, I'd be a little twitchy, too.

[Wicked Pilot]

The majority of pro-choicers out there are Christian. If I where a violent pro-lifer it'd make perfect sense to me to send a message that you're either with us or against us. This doctor who has over his career supposedly murdered hundreds of children, and yet claims to be Christian and is accepted in a Christian congregation. Fuck him and his church, McVeigh was executed over less.

No time for wishy washy condemnation now right wingers, this is the way it's got to happen right? Supreme Court ain't gonna help you.

[Superman]

The majority of pro-choicers out there are Christian. If I where a violent pro-lifer it'd make perfect sense to me to send a message that you're either with us or against us. This doctor who has over his career supposedly murdered hundreds of children, and yet claims to be Christian and is accepted in a Christian congregation. Fuck him and his church, McVeigh was executed over less.

Kind of like if I were Adolf Hitler, the Holocaust would make perfect sense too. Isn't great how we live in a world where people might kill you because of an ancient fairy tale that says that you're in the wrong? Goddamn, there are a lot of fucked up people.

[Surlethe]

If these pro-lifers were really honest, they'd say that Tiller's death was, at worst, a necessary evil, the same way we'd say the murder of a legally-sanctioned serial killer would be a necessary evil if there were no other way to stop him from killing people. That's the logical conclusion of their beliefs. Instead, we get groups like Operation Rescue condemning the murder; I suppose they were just going to keep trying to drive him out of business, and in the meantime the abortions he "committed" were necessary evils?

[Darth Wong]

Operation Rescue has his blood on their hands. You can't distribute propaganda every day calling someone an unstoppable mass murderer on the loose, and not expect someone to take the logical next step from that propaganda sooner or later.

They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to describe these people as unchecked mass murderers in all of their rhetoric, yet they want to disavow all moral responsibility the moment someone treats them as unchecked mass murderers.

[Crossroads Inc.]

If these pro-lifers were really honest, they'd say that Tiller's death was, at worst, a necessary evil, the same way we'd say the murder of a legally-sanctioned serial killer would be a necessary evil if there were no other way to stop him from killing people. That's the logical conclusion of their beliefs. Instead, we get groups like Operation Rescue condemning the murder; I suppose they were just going to keep trying to drive him out of business, and in the meantime the abortions he "committed" were necessary evils?

That is the core of why the pro-life movement is flawed. According to these people, we evil-doers are "murdering" thousands up thousands of "lives" every year... If they truely believed this they should be be doing everything possible to destroy every abortion place in America. Killing abortion doctors should be recommended, encouraged even to stop them, IF they truly believed it was truly murder...

I once heard on Fresh Air on NPR a pro-life person debating someone about Abortion and stem-cells, The guy was asked the following question. ""If there was a fire at a fertility clinic, and a little girl was trapped, and you could save either the little gir, or a chest containing 500 embryos, which would you rescue?""
The guy would not give a strigth answer, he hemed and hawed for over 10min with the host asking over and over "You say they are living people, you say they have souls you HAVE to choose the embryos over the girl, you HAVE to" By their logic he should.. BUt ive yet to hear any pro lifer put thier money where their mouth is.

[Frank Hipper]

I tried that same argument (well, similar; one kid or five petri dishes full of embryos) with an idiot a couple years ago, Crossroads.

If he'd had half a brain, maybe it would have been more amusing, instead he just kept repeating "That isn't fair", and utterly failed when pressed at explaining why.

[Cairber]

Randall Terry (founder of Operation Rescue) had this to say:

"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches."

huffpo link

[Wicked Pilot]

The other obvious stump question is to ask the pro-lifer what the penalty should be for providing an abortion should the procedure be outlawed. Both for the doctor and the mother, seeing how they are accomplices. You should demand nothing less than what would be dished out for a serial killer.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches."

Once again I found myself asking, if you REALLY Believe this is murder, peaceful protests would be the LAST thing you would be doing,

[thejester]

That is the core of why the pro-life movement is flawed. According to these people, we evil-doers are "murdering" thousands up thousands of "lives" every year... If they truely believed this they should be be doing everything possible to destroy every abortion place in America. Killing abortion doctors should be recommended, encouraged even to stop them, IF they truly believed it was truly murder...

I understand what you're saying, but couldn't you make the same comparison with anti-war protesters?
Perhaps it's more just testament to the power of social norms and conditioning that they don't execute their logical follow through.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I once heard on Fresh Air on NPR a pro-life person debating someone about Abortion and stem-cells, The guy was asked the following question. ""If there was a fire at a fertility clinic, and a little girl was trapped, and you could save either the little gir, or a chest containing 500 embryos, which would you rescue?""
The guy would not give a strigth answer, he hemed and hawed for over 10min with the host asking over and over "You say they are living people, you say they have souls you HAVE to choose the embryos over the girl, you HAVE to" By their logic he should.. BUt ive yet to hear any pro lifer put thier money where their mouth is.

Then again, there's the possibility that he WOULD save the embryos, let the girl burn, but knows how awful that sounds.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I'll be curious to find out just how long the assassin was planning this. Apparently just last March a spurious ethics case against Tiller that the pro-life Kansas attorney general was pursuing fell apart, while on the other hand a pro-choice Justice is about to skate onto the Supreme Court and that's in the news as well. But all I can really think about this is the fact that Tiller was apparently one of only three doctors nationwide who perform late-term abortions, so in effect he was murdered for helping women who had no other place to go.

EDIT:
Possibly Tiller was one of three doctors in the region who did late term abortions, Orcinus was where I got the nationwide, which when I think about it seems a little implausible. But anyway, the point is still the same.

[SirNitram]

Suspect arrested, identified.

Link

The Associated Press says the man detained in the Kansas City area is 51-year-old Scott Roeder of Merriam, Kansas, according to Law Enforcement authorities in the area. Roeder has not been formally charged with the killing.

Salon.com is kind enough to give us a glimpse of the kind of terrorist we're dealing with. Link

According to the Associated Press, police have identified the man suspected of murdering abortion provider George Tiller as 51-year-old Scott Roeder of Merriam, Kansas. He is in custody but has not yet been charged with the crime.

Roeder has a history with Kansas law enforcement and with potentially violent political extremism. In 1996, he was stopped and arrested for driving a car without a valid license plate, apparently an act of protest. According to the Kansas City Star, the FBI believed that Roeder was a member of the Montana Freemen, a militia group that engaged in a standoff with authorities. His license plate read:

Sovereign

Private Property

Immunity Declared at Law

Non-Commercial American

Upon searching Roeder's car, police discovered bombmaking material including gunpowder and two six-volt lantern batteries. In his home, they found a two-page instruction manual, "Underground Cookbook: Clothes Pin Time-Delayed Switch" that reportedly gave directions for how to assemble a bomb with the items in his car. After later violating his parole for convictions stemming from that incident, Roeder was sentenced to 16 months in prison.

Various Internet sleuths have discovered two comments Roeder left on Web message boards about Tiller. In one, posted to Operation Rescue's Web site, he wrote:

Bleass (sic) everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.

Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

In another, on ChargeTiller.com, Roeder said, "It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the 'lawlessness' which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp 'Mengele' of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation."

Salon found a different kind of Internet posting that appears to have been put up by Roeder. On Care.com, he listed himself as available to be a caregiver for the elderly, writing, "I haven't cared for seniors professionally, but am looking for a position to do so. I'm 50 years old myself, and feel I have the life experience, maturity and desire to provide compassionate and complete care to the elderly and those who are in need." In the ad, Roeder said he'd had some college education at Washburn University, in Topeka, and that he'd majored in French Government.

Apparently, the kind of anti-government, murderous asshole we're dealing with is one without a good judge of his own abilities.

[Drooling Iguana]

So the only good part of government is the part that polices women's bodies?

[SirNitram]

He's a busy guy, he can't be expected to look after his chattle.

Related wayback article.

'I regret that there was an inadvertent omission in my previous response to this question,' Sebelius wrote.
Photo: AP

Calling it an “inadvertent omission,” Health and Human Services nominee Kathleen Sebelius told senators Tuesday that her campaign and political action committee received almost $40,000 connected to a late-term abortion doctor — not $12,450 as she originally disclosed.

“I regret that there was an inadvertent omission in my previous response to this question,” Sebelius wrote in a revised response Tuesday to questions from the Senate Finance Committee. “The oversight led to an incomplete listing of certain PAC contributions as well as contributions from Dr. Tiller’s business.”

Sebelius’s affiliation with Dr. George Tiller has stoked anger in the antiabortion community, and drawn skepticism among Republican senators. As part of the committee’s request for additional information, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) pressed Sebelius to detail her relationship with Tiller, who was acquitted last month in Kansas of misdemeanor charges stemming from performing late-term abortions but now faces a state medical board investigation.

In her initial response to the committee, Sebelius said she received $12,450 from 1994 to 2001 from Tiller.
See Also

* 5 reasons Obama sounds optimistic
* FEC scorecard: 10 reports to watch
* Obama set to announce ‘border czar’


Her revised filing Tuesday detailed $39,600 in contributions, which she said was gathered from records at the Kansas Governmental Ethics Commission, including electronic records and all available paper records dating back to 1986.

Between 1990 and 2001, her campaign received $13,350 from Tiller and his wife, and $3,250 from organizations associated with Tiller, Sebelius said.

Sebelius’s political action committee Bluestem Fund received another $23,000 from Tiller and his clinic Women’s Health Care Services between 2000 and 2002, she said.

The oversight was the second correction Sebelius had to make during her confirmation process. Last month, the Kansas governor paid almost $8,000 in back taxes and interest stemming from “unintentional errors” revealed during her accountant’s review of tax returns.

The Associated Press first reported the discrepancy the Tiller donation amounts Monday.

The Senate is expected to vote on her nomination after returning next week from the Easter recess.

Oh look. The GOP made sure to make him more visible. And now he's dead.

[Tiriol]

Suspect arrested, identified.

Link

The Associated Press says the man detained in the Kansas City area is 51-year-old Scott Roeder of Merriam, Kansas, according to Law Enforcement authorities in the area. Roeder has not been formally charged with the killing.

Salon.com is kind enough to give us a glimpse of the kind of terrorist we're dealing with. Link

According to the Associated Press, police have identified the man suspected of murdering abortion provider George Tiller as 51-year-old Scott Roeder of Merriam, Kansas. He is in custody but has not yet been charged with the crime.

Roeder has a history with Kansas law enforcement and with potentially violent political extremism. In 1996, he was stopped and arrested for driving a car without a valid license plate, apparently an act of protest. According to the Kansas City Star, the FBI believed that Roeder was a member of the Montana Freemen, a militia group that engaged in a standoff with authorities. His license plate read:

Sovereign

Private Property

Immunity Declared at Law

Non-Commercial American

Upon searching Roeder's car, police discovered bombmaking material including gunpowder and two six-volt lantern batteries. In his home, they found a two-page instruction manual, "Underground Cookbook: Clothes Pin Time-Delayed Switch" that reportedly gave directions for how to assemble a bomb with the items in his car. After later violating his parole for convictions stemming from that incident, Roeder was sentenced to 16 months in prison.

Various Internet sleuths have discovered two comments Roeder left on Web message boards about Tiller. In one, posted to Operation Rescue's Web site, he wrote:

Bleass (sic) everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp.

Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.

In another, on ChargeTiller.com, Roeder said, "It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the 'lawlessness' which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp 'Mengele' of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation."

Salon found a different kind of Internet posting that appears to have been put up by Roeder. On Care.com, he listed himself as available to be a caregiver for the elderly, writing, "I haven't cared for seniors professionally, but am looking for a position to do so. I'm 50 years old myself, and feel I have the life experience, maturity and desire to provide compassionate and complete care to the elderly and those who are in need." In the ad, Roeder said he'd had some college education at Washburn University, in Topeka, and that he'd majored in French Government.

Apparently, the kind of anti-government, murderous asshole we're dealing with is one without a good judge of his own abilities.

I must point out that he is only a suspect at this point and hasn't been formally charged with anything. While his posts about Tiller are ominous, considering what has happened, and his past record certainly doesn't help him, there doesn't yet seem to be anything concrete against him in this case. That may and probably will change, but he is still innocent until proven otherwise.

[CaptainChewbacca]

You know, there's (apparently) an abortion clinic about a block from my apartment. I didn't know it, but I eventually saw the picketers out on the street tuesdays and thursdays. I wonder if I should go talk to them, see what they believe and why.

For the record, I don't LIKE abortion, but I also know my opinion doesn't matter at all to some woman grappling with emotional and personal issues I couldn't BEGIN to comprehend.

[SirNitram]

You know, there's (apparently) an abortion clinic about a block from my apartment. I didn't know it, but I eventually saw the picketers out on the street tuesdays and thursdays. I wonder if I should go talk to them, see what they believe and why.

For the record, I don't LIKE abortion, but I also know my opinion doesn't matter at all to some woman grappling with emotional and personal issues I couldn't BEGIN to comprehend.

I don't think there's a person alive who likes an invasive medical procedure which carries all sorts of risks, often done because of health concerns. I mean, it'd be like enjoying the prospect of a colonscopy and that godawful stuff you have to drink beforehand. Plus the chance of, you know, death, and the very definite moral and emotional anguish.

[Tiriol]

You know, there's (apparently) an abortion clinic about a block from my apartment. I didn't know it, but I eventually saw the picketers out on the street tuesdays and thursdays. I wonder if I should go talk to them, see what they believe and why.

For the record, I don't LIKE abortion, but I also know my opinion doesn't matter at all to some woman grappling with emotional and personal issues I couldn't BEGIN to comprehend.

I don't think there's a person alive who likes an invasive medical procedure which carries all sorts of risks, often done because of health concerns. I mean, it'd be like enjoying the prospect of a colonscopy and that godawful stuff you have to drink beforehand. Plus the chance of, you know, death, and the very definite moral and emotional anguish.

True. This is the one thing that always baffles me in the so-called "Pro-Life" crowd: reading between the lines or sometimes reading the lines, it strikes me that they honestly believe that those who support the right to abortion LIKE the idea of an invasive medical prodecure.

[Elfdart]

He's a busy guy, he can't be expected to look after his chattle.

Oh look. The GOP made sure to make him more visible. And now he's dead.

One thing I've noticed when O'Reilly send his semen-crusted flunkies out to stalk those who displease him is that Fox News doesn't blur out the street address or license plate number on the person's car.

[Darksider]

One thing I've noticed when O'Reilly send his semen-crusted flunkies out to stalk those who displease him is that Fox News doesn't blur out the street address or license plate number on the person's car.

Doesn't that mean that Falafel boy would be legally liable if any of the crazies take his advice one step further and murder somebody?

[Themightytom]

One thing I've noticed when O'Reilly send his semen-crusted flunkies out to stalk those who displease him is that Fox News doesn't blur out the street address or license plate number on the person's car.

Doesn't that mean that Falafel boy would be legally liable if any of the crazies take his advice one step further and murder somebody?

But he doesn't tell people to "Go out and kill abortionists" does he? He just uses rhetoric to incite them to taking the next step. the comment you just made could be taken as advising someone to commit a crime in his name in order to make him legally responsible and by your logic YOU would be legally responsible.

This is why I despise the ProLife movement because they are inherently NOT proLife. Any movement that doesn't incorporate the freedom to choose into its ideology elicits a punnishment/removal response which will ultimately lead to violence. If you don't let people choose to ignore you than you avhe to get their attention. if they don't pay attention, you have to escalate or concede your ideals. This is a core concept of nonviolent movements, you aren't forcing the choice to embrace your ideals on others.

[Darth Wong]

True. This is the one thing that always baffles me in the so-called "Pro-Life" crowd: reading between the lines or sometimes reading the lines, it strikes me that they honestly believe that those who support the right to abortion LIKE the idea of an invasive medical prodecure.

They believe women who seek abortions are sluts who enjoy casual sex and laugh off the abortions that they get. It's an absurd caricature, and the Mindless Middle doesn't seem to realize that while right-wing caricatures of pro-abortion activists are completely absurd, left-wing "caricatures" of anti-abortion activists are actually quite accurate.

"Mindless Middle" types have a lot of trouble grappling with the idea that one side is simply more unreasonable than the other.