Paleontologists with Character

[Majin Gojira]

Feel free to move this if this is the wrong place for it.

I've taken to volunteering at the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia, and during one of the training sessions, a fun story was mentioned.

John Ostrom's discovery of Deinonychus is one of the most often tolled stories in dinosaur discoveries--reaching legendary proportions.

Legends get distorted, so one of the Academy's scientist asked him while he was visiting about the truth of the mater, and a detail came out that I had neve heard before in all the retellings.

Namely that he was with a good friend of his walking back to the vans ready to give up when he spotted the articfulated foot claw sticking out of the rocks. Ostrom spotted it first and in his excitement--like a 5 year old kid--hipchecked his friend down a small cliffside. His friend was fine, of course--it was a low slope and maybe 10ft deep.

Fun story if true.

This and a current RPG progect got me to thinking about the Paleontologists of both the greatest importance and the ones with the greatest character in the science's not-so-long history.

One of the first ones to come to mind is, of course, Roy Chapman Andrews. Considering how he is often touted as the "Real Life Indiana Jones" that shouldn't be surprising. His discovery of the first fossilized Dinosaur eggs among other things add scientific credibility to his antics.

So who do you think of as contributing a lot to the science and having large amounts of character? (even if that character amounted to being an asshole like Sir Richard Owen).

[Vehrec]

Edward Drinker Cope and Othneil C. Marsh, the great dinosaur barrons of the Wild West. Once good friends, their rivalry began after Marsh forced Cope off his favorite fossil bed by buying the mineral rights out from under him. From 1877 to 1903, no discovery found in the United States escaped their drive to one-up and out publish the other. Today, this legendary conflict is known as 'the Bone Wars'. Through their actions, the world gained the most famous species that never was-Brontosaurs.

[Shroom Man 777]

[Jack] Horner was born and raised in Shelby, Montana, and attended the University of Montana for seven years, majoring in geology and zoology. He also spent two years in the U.S. Marine Corps, serving during the Vietnam War in the Special Forces.

[Akkleptos]

The French zoologist and biologist Baron Georges Léopold Cuvier (1769-1832) made significant contributions in the fields of paleontology, comparative anatomy, and taxonomy and was one of the chief spokesmen for science in postrevolutionary France.

He was in all my dinosaur-related books as a child.

And, no, he was no anti-evolutionist, as some would have us believe:

Cuvier did not live to see Charles Darwin propound his theory of evolution by natural selection, yet he is frequently portrayed as one of the most important anti-evolutionary figures in the history of biology. This reputation arose largely from the clash with his contemporaries Jean Baptiste de Lamarck and étienne Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, who supported evolutionary ideas.

[Surlethe]

These are human interest stories about scientists, not questions of actual science (or logic or morality), so they're probably better suited to OT.

[Darth Fanboy]

Edward Drinker Cope and Othneil C. Marsh, the great dinosaur barrons of the Wild West. Once good friends, their rivalry began after Marsh forced Cope off his favorite fossil bed by buying the mineral rights out from under him. From 1877 to 1903, no discovery found in the United States escaped their drive to one-up and out publish the other. Today, this legendary conflict is known as 'the Bone Wars'. Through their actions, the world gained the most famous species that never was-Brontosaurs.

If memory serves me at least one of those two men had their brains measured post-mortem in some sort of macabre contest that the other did not participate in.

[RedImperator]

Edward Drinker Cope and Othneil C. Marsh, the great dinosaur barrons of the Wild West. Once good friends, their rivalry began after Marsh forced Cope off his favorite fossil bed by buying the mineral rights out from under him. From 1877 to 1903, no discovery found in the United States escaped their drive to one-up and out publish the other. Today, this legendary conflict is known as 'the Bone Wars'. Through their actions, the world gained the most famous species that never was-Brontosaurs.

If memory serves me at least one of those two men had their brains measured post-mortem in some sort of macabre contest that the other did not participate in.

That was Cope. He donated his body to science; his bones are at the University of Pennsylvania and I think his brain is still floating around somewhere.

[tim31]

Better yet on Cope, and I'll quote from wikipedia on this:

After many years of working in hostile and extreme conditions, Cope’s overexertion over the years finally caught up with him. Cope was confined for a time to bed as his gastrointestinal problems became worse in 1897. His self medication of formalin, a substance based on formaldehyde, used to preserve specimens only made the sickness worse and on April 12, 1897 Cope died in his Pine Street home. His brain was removed and given to the Wistar Institute at the University of Pennsylvania. His ashes were placed at the institute with his friends Joseph Leidy and Dr. Ryder. His bones were to be extracted and kept in a locked drawer, not to be put up on exhibit, but to be studied by anatomy students at the University. Many believed Cope had died of syphilis that he had contracted in his travels from the many women he fraternized with. However, this theory was laid to rest when Jane Davidson, author of the Bone Sharp, was able to gain permission to have the skeleton examined by a medical doctor at the university. Dr. Morrie Kricun a professor of radiology in 1995 came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no evidence of bony syphilis on Cope’s skeleton.

I had remembered reading that he had requested his bones be preserved as the type specimen for homo sapiens, but when they prepared the skeleton and discovered(incorrectly) the syphilis, they quietly shelved him. I'll try to track down that reference.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Dr. Robert Bakker always seemed to be fairly charismatic. I think he was on most of the Discovery specials on dinosaurs I grew up watching. Dr. Phil Curry (sp?) also seemed to be fairly captivating, of course that may also be that he specialises in therapods if I remember correctly (come on who doesn't like therapods). Dr. Jack Horner, with his whole tyranosaurus rex as a pure (or close to it) scavenger and Dr. Dale Russel with his whole dynosauroid (truodontid evolved to a bipedal man like creature) both certaily strike me as needing to have some major balls and self confidence to put those ideas forward seriously. There is also that one who is a YEC, he certainly has to be quite a character to have that level of cognitive dissonance, though I doubt you meant that kind of character. I can't really say how much these guys have contributed to the science, but they definitely seem to be (or at least were) the rockstars of the paleontology world, excepting that last idiot of course.

Majin Gojira, what is your educataional background again, if you don't mind my asking? Was it you who were undertaking a paleontological career, or do I have you confused with someone else?

I always wanted to be one growing up, however eventually my OCD (issues with dirt/germs) won out and I took up my other interest, computers, instead. I went to go see the new display at the Carnegie Museum in Pittsburgh this past summer, and damn, that was a blast even after all these years. If you ever get up this way towards Pittsburgh from Philly, I highly recommend going to see it.

[Majin Gojira]

Majin Gojira, what is your educataional background again, if you don't mind my asking? Was it you who were undertaking a paleontological career, or do I have you confused with someone else?

Nope, that's someone else.

I'm an unsold Screenwriter by education.

IE: A bum.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I will have to me too one those wild west bone barons, and add in Showman PT Barnum, when the public's hunger for those two rose to a fever pitch, Barnum created his own Dinosaurs for exhibit....

oh, and add in a real point for our former Member Innerbrat, gotta love a Goth Girl Palentologist, it's like abby from NCIS, but real.

[Shroom Man 777]

The actual-factual paleontologists in SDNet are Innerbrat and, iirc, Kintaro. Innerbrat is, like, sexy and doing actual-factual bone diggings in the desert. I believe she also got a consulting job for some international genetics company and got a free vacation to some resort off the Central American coastline, which explains why she so seldomly posts now.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yeah, IB the cool, sexy, lesbian, goth, blonde, Paleontologist.

[Styphon]

The actual-factual paleontologists in SDNet are Innerbrat and, iirc, Kintaro. Innerbrat is, like, sexy and doing actual-factual bone diggings in the desert. I believe she also got a consulting job for some international genetics company and got a free vacation to some resort off the Central American coastline, which explains why she so seldomly posts now.

This sounds suspiciously like the plot of Jurassic Park.

[Shroom Man 777]

Okay, maybe Innerbrat is actually a paleobotanist with a fondness of short pants while Kintaro is a paleontologist specializing on velociraptors, who keeps a velociraptor claw with him at all times, and who also doesn't like kids. Kintaro also thinks that Tyrannosaurs have about as much visual acuity as amphibians.

Then they are joined by Kuroneko, wearing all black, who has come to specialize in the mathematics of Chaos Theory and he keeps on going on and on about how the project will not work, filling everyone with overall pessimism and good cheer. He also hits on Innerbrat.

They are greeted by the kindly old CEO of the company, and Stravo - the greedy lawyer who's representing the old man's international genetics company.

Axis Kast will be the South African gameskeeper from Pretoria, and he'll be bringing around his handy SPAS-12 until he meets a certain "clever girl".

What else am I missing?

[hongi]

The two really annoying nephews who get torn apart by raptors within the first five minutes - oh, wait. That's what should have happened.

Dr. Robert Bakker always seemed to be fairly charismatic. I think he was on most of the Discovery specials on dinosaurs I grew up watching.

Bakker and his book 'The Dinosaur Heresies' were very influential in the so called dinosaur renaissance. It's about 20 years old, but still a good read. He was one of the first to postulate warm-bloodedness for dinosaurs and thereby change our conception of dinosaurs as slow and plodding to one of active, infinitely interesting reptiles.

And of course, Jurassic Park was the first to put this view into the popular consciousness.

[The Romulan Republic]

Bakker is indeed brilliant. I used to read his books, and probably still have a copy of The Dinosaur Heresies lying around somewhere.

I used to be really interested in paleontology as well. I actually used Bakker's theories as the basis for a middle school science fair project. I was a member of the local paleontological society in my home town, volunteered at my local natural history museum through most of high school, and visited museums with fossil exhibits every chance I got (by the way, the best I've seen by ten miles is the Royal Tyrell Museum in Drumheller, Alberta. Hmm, might have misspelled some of that:)).

Anyway, Bakker certainly deserves a mention. I'll second Dr. Curry as well, since his hypothetical humanoid dinosaur is indeed very interesting, regardless of how plausible it is.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Actually Innerbrat is doing her post grad work on bi-pedial hunting dinosaurs, and their relationship with modern birds. *watches Chicobo hissing at kid in Pokemon tee* of course what that research is were not sure....

[Shroom Man 777]

I liked Bakker's other book, Raptor Red. Come on, an adventure story starring a utahraptor! That's awesome!

[The Yosemite Bear]

yeah that was a really good one.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Marsh had his revenge though, fossilized dino feces were named Copralites by Marsh as part of their feud.

[Wing Commander MAD]

Good points guys, and thanks for clearing the identity of our local boneheads up. I'll agree Raptor Red was cool, and yeah how could I forget Bakker was one of the first to champion the endothermic view.

PS: Romulan Republic I am pretty sure it was Russel who came up with the Dinosouroid, also I am pretty sure Dr. Curry was or at least used to work at/with the Royal Tyrell Museum.

[The Romulan Republic]

Good points guys, and thanks for clearing the identity of our local boneheads up. I'll agree Raptor Red was cool, and yeah how could I forget Bakker was one of the first to champion the endothermic view.

PS: Romulan Republic I am pretty sure it was Russel who came up with the Dinosouroid, also I am pretty sure Dr. Curry was or at least used to work at/with the Royal Tyrell Museum.

Sorry, mixed up a couple of guys there.

Yes, I think you're right about Curry and Russel.