World Government

[UltraViolence83]

I'm sure everyone's noticed how in most sci-fi Earth is united in one government. Just how plausible is this idea? Shouldn't there be more governments on a planet, since peoples' ideals oftentimes differ greatly?

...This is all assuming the world unites democratically, not taken over by some crazed warlord.


Oh, would it only be possible if the world was all one society/culture?

[salm]

in scifi that´s mainly done to keep things a bit easier to overlook. imagine a scifi universe with scenarios playing on different planets which all have 150 different nations. that would make the whole thing a lot more complicated.

on the other hand it´s not that unlikely that the world´s going to be united one day. just look at germany which was a patchwork of little herzogtümer not too long ago. now it´s developing into a united europe.

it´s not a quick process but it is there.
of course unions like this can also brake up again, see the soviet union.

[Mr Bean]

Cultural overthrow is about the only way to do it, Unless everyone speaks the same langauge and holds similar ideas it just won't work

[salm]

Cultural overthrow is about the only way to do it, Unless everyone speaks the same langauge and holds similar ideas it just won't work

yes, see switzerland.

[UltraViolence83]

What about Switzerland? I thought they had everything together, regardless of their like 5 national languages.

The reason I ask is because in the sci-fi universe I'm writing, in Earth (this is 3700 years in the future) is fractured even moreso than it is right now. It's hard to explain, but think of a near-feudal republic imperium. Like one overall Earth government, with tinier countries within it, adhereing to its laws. They also sometimes war with one another, albeit under strict rules of conduct, such as the case with Europe.

I also don't like the idea of one government. That would usually indicate, like Bean said, a cultural overthrow, and I personally like plurality of the world's societies and governing ways.

[jaeger115]

One-world government is impossible. Because of human nature. Of course my sister disagrees, but she's a fucking hippie moron.

[Warspite]

The best example nowadays you could find is the European Union.
15 Member-states and growing, a *lot* of different cultures and languages, all towards a united federation of plane... er, countries.
The member-states are still independent, but have to abide by European Parliament laws and regulations, and it works (well, most of the time, every document that comes out of the Parliament must be ratified by each member-state, and that takes time).
Of course, only in a stable, and possibly small, place like here is this possible, doing this in Africa will be damn near impossible, with such wide range of cultures (and tribal wars...), from North Africa to South Africa.

A united Earth will happen, but it's going to take a little while.

[salm]

What about Switzerland? I thought they had everything together, regardless of their like 5 national languages.

The reason I ask is because in the sci-fi universe I'm writing, in Earth (this is 3700 years in the future) is fractured even moreso than it is right now. It's hard to explain, but think of a near-feudal republic imperium. Like one overall Earth government, with tinier countries within it, adhereing to its laws. They also sometimes war with one another, albeit under strict rules of conduct, such as the case with Europe.

I also don't like the idea of one government. That would usually indicate, like Bean said, a cultural overthrow, and I personally like plurality of the world's societies and governing ways.

with the swizerland comment i was saying that bean is wrong when he says that only with one language it is possible to be under one government.
switzerland has, as you said more than one, in fact 4 official languages. language might be barrier but not an ultimate barrier.
there are other countries as well, look at canada.


about your scifi universe:

i take back my first comment about the "way too complex" thing if there hundreds of countries on one planet.
i was thinking about stories like star wars. hundreds of counries on a star wars planet wouldnt make any sense because it would be pretty much irrelevant for the story itself.
in your case it´s different. the situation that there are many countries on you planets is important for the plot and for the whole athmosphere in your story.

<edit>today is one of the days on which my english sucks</edit>

[UltraViolence83]

Actually, the countries have little to do with the stories. they're (the stories) mostly personal experiences that don't have much impact on thier environment. It's that I try to keep it as realistic as possible.

...Of course, I use things such as shields and artificial gravity and interdimensional travel...but other than that, especially the functions of society and other technology, I try to maintain an aura of plausibility.

edit: added (the stories) to clear up possible confusion to what I was talking about.

[jegs2]

I'm sure everyone's noticed how in most sci-fi Earth is united in one government. Just how plausible is this idea? Shouldn't there be more governments on a planet, since peoples' ideals oftentimes differ greatly?

...This is all assuming the world unites democratically, not taken over by some crazed warlord.


Oh, would it only be possible if the world was all one society/culture?

Think the clashes of cultures will prevent it -- not to mention the whack-jobs who are armed to the teeth. Furthermore, just look at the issues in the EU and the US, which are already "united". Also, imagine the Middle East peoples all clasping hands and singing together in harmony...

[jaeger115]

Think the clashes of cultures will prevent it -- not to mention the whack-jobs who are armed to the teeth. Furthermore, just look at the issues in the EU and the US, which are already "united". Also, imagine the Middle East peoples all clasping hands and singing together in harmony...

Course, my sister thinks the people in the Middle East can just throw away their ideologies and hug each other.

[jegs2]

Think the clashes of cultures will prevent it -- not to mention the whack-jobs who are armed to the teeth. Furthermore, just look at the issues in the EU and the US, which are already "united". Also, imagine the Middle East peoples all clasping hands and singing together in harmony...

Course, my sister thinks the people in the Middle East can just throw away their ideologies and hug each other.

I cannot blame her for seeing things that way, for we in Western cultures look at issues that way ("Let's just talk about it"). Study of Middle Eastern cultures and/or a visit to those cultures is required IOT derive a true appreciation of the extreme differences in the way they see life from the way we see life. The climate of the desert is a good example: It is either very hot or very cold, and it is either very dry or very wet -- there are rarely in-betweens. The Arab culture seems to reflect those extremes. The hatred between Arabs and Jews is undeniable and very deep -- it is tangible. Arab children are taught to despise Jews from early childhood, and in return the Jewish children are taught to distrust non-Jews and Arabs. There is no quick-fix for those things, and much of the rest of the world is the same.

[UltraViolence83]

I still like my idea of how the world could govern itself effiently. It's pretty much how we do things now, so I think it'd work out:

1. An overall planetary government. Not nessecarily like a true government, but more like the UN or EU or what have you. Say a particular nation isn't well-liked by the others, this is where they would settle their differences. It's like a forum for debate and mediation for wars.

2a. Continental governments. Ones that take up considerable space on a given continent (or continent-sized area, underwater cities ala SeaQuest.) I'm pretty sure they'd have a larger sway over affairs of the world than anyone else.

2b. "Country"-sized governments. (Size of average European nation or US state.) Smaller and/or weaker nations. Nation-states of differing power and system of governments. Since this is the future, corporations may obtain governmental status, too (think CSA).

3. Federated or Independant city-states. Kinda like ancient Greece/China. Maybe there are groups of people with a way of living they want to perserve, but their numbers are too small to form their own nation. So they rule a city or two. These cities could band together for defense and political power against the other governments.

I see the reason for this particular structuring is to be based on human nature. I'm sure people will still want to kill each other in a united world, so I wars will still be waged, but only under certain rules of conduct.

[UltraViolence83]

I cannot blame her for seeing things that way, for we in Western cultures look at issues that way ("Let's just talk about it"). Study of Middle Eastern cultures and/or a visit to those cultures is required IOT derive a true appreciation of the extreme differences in the way they see life from the way we see life. The climate of the desert is a good example: It is either very hot or very cold, and it is either very dry or very wet -- there are rarely in-betweens. The Arab culture seems to reflect those extremes. The hatred between Arabs and Jews is undeniable and very deep -- it is tangible. Arab children are taught to despise Jews from early childhood, and in return the Jewish children are taught to distrust non-Jews and Arabs. There is no quick-fix for those things, and much of the rest of the world is the same.

I like the desert. Maybe Earth Capital should be Jerusalem?

"Remember our story, we are newlyweds on way to Earth Capital."
--Simpsons Alien (how the hell am I supossed to tell them apart!?)

[salm]

Think the clashes of cultures will prevent it -- not to mention the whack-jobs who are armed to the teeth. Furthermore, just look at the issues in the EU and the US, which are already "united". Also, imagine the Middle East peoples all clasping hands and singing together in harmony...

Course, my sister thinks the people in the Middle East can just throw away their ideologies and hug each other.

I cannot blame her for seeing things that way, for we in Western cultures look at issues that way ("Let's just talk about it"). Study of Middle Eastern cultures and/or a visit to those cultures is required IOT derive a true appreciation of the extreme differences in the way they see life from the way we see life. The climate of the desert is a good example: It is either very hot or very cold, and it is either very dry or very wet -- there are rarely in-betweens. The Arab culture seems to reflect those extremes. The hatred between Arabs and Jews is undeniable and very deep -- it is tangible. Arab children are taught to despise Jews from early childhood, and in return the Jewish children are taught to distrust non-Jews and Arabs. There is no quick-fix for those things, and much of the rest of the world is the same.

that´s a bit generalizing.
think of it, kkk members will teach their children to despise black people. that doesnt mean that all white americans hate black people.

[jegs2]

that´s a bit generalizing.
think of it, kkk members will teach their children to despise black people. that doesnt mean that all white americans hate black people.

Not comparible. Again, you're thinking like a Westerner. The hatreds I mentioned go back for thousands of years, not just a couple of centruries. One cannot handwave hatred of that depth.

[Exonerate]

that´s a bit generalizing.
think of it, kkk members will teach their children to despise black people. that doesnt mean that all white americans hate black people.

Not comparible. Again, you're thinking like a Westerner. The hatreds I mentioned go back for thousands of years, not just a couple of centruries. One cannot handwave hatred of that depth.

You can if you eliminate all their exposure to hate and racism...

[Darth Wong]

Forced interbreeding would eliminate the problem after 2 generations

[Hotfoot]

Forced interbreeding would eliminate the problem after 2 generations

*opens mouth to argue, pauses, then shrugs in defeat*

Where can I submit an application?

[Steve]

Mike, I think that approach, while tempting , is a bit.... simplistic.

But I call dibs on hot Arab girls that are tired of being wrapped up in veils and robes.

[Sea Skimmer]

...This is all assuming the world unites democratically, not taken over by some crazed warlord.

Damn, guess my fascist serf state isn't an option then.

[Stuart Mackey]

I dont think the world will ever be one culture, but there is no reason why you could not have a world government.
It would have to be federal in nature and would have to be democratic in its organistaion to the extent that there is one nation one vote.
There would have to be planet wide defence force, ie no national defence forces as such. and a basic constitution to ensure free speech, assembly and rule of law etc.
Almost like a looser version of the USA

[jaeger115]

Forced interbreeding would eliminate the problem after 2 generations

How would you get them together?

[AdmiralKanos]

Forced interbreeding would eliminate the problem after 2 generations

How would you get them together?

I never said it would be easy to implement. But while the proposal was made in jest, the fact remains that societal inbreeding is the primary cause for these kinds of artificial divisions. If, through some miracle, every couple was interracial and had kids, these ancient race hatreds would dissolve in two generations. Pretty hard to tell your kids not to trust Arabs or Jews when you're both.

[Stuart Mackey]

Forced interbreeding would eliminate the problem after 2 generations

How would you get them together?

I never said it would be easy to implement. But while the proposal was made in jest, the fact remains that societal inbreeding is the primary cause for these kinds of artificial divisions. If, through some miracle, every couple was interracial and had kids, these ancient race hatreds would dissolve in two generations. Pretty hard to tell your kids not to trust Arabs or Jews when you're both.

Well I dont know how it would be done, the attempt would live forever in history