Lord of the Rings question

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-13 02:18am

In the movie, why was Arwen only chased by eight of the Nine? What happened to the ninth? In the books, Glorfindel is specifically stated to have been chased by all nine of the Nine Ringwraiths, so how come in the movie there are only eight? I cannot believe that they would make such a mistake, so why did they remove the one? Are they saying that Aragorn actually "killed" one of them (temporarily), or is there another explanation. Maybe I'll have to wait until the expanded one comes out later, but I don't want to wait that long. Any speculation on this matter would be appreciated.

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-13 02:25am

Master of Ossus wrote:In the movie, why was Arwen only chased by eight of the Nine? What happened to the ninth? In the books, Glorfindel is specifically stated to have been chased by all nine of the Nine Ringwraiths, so how come in the movie there are only eight? I cannot believe that they would make such a mistake, so why did they remove the one? Are they saying that Aragorn actually "killed" one of them (temporarily), or is there another explanation. Maybe I'll have to wait until the expanded one comes out later, but I don't want to wait that long. Any speculation on this matter would be appreciated.

I always wondered that myself.

Maybe the ninth one was sent on some other errand.

Emperor Norton II · Post by **Emperor Norton II** » 2002-08-13 02:34am

It could be a possible plot device or just eight riders looked more dramatic on film? I did not watch the movie that closely, but then again I was happy to see it for free at the time.

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-13 02:39am

Emperor Norton II wrote:It could be a possible plot device or just eight riders looked more dramatic on film? I did not watch the movie that closely, but then again I was happy to see it for free at the time.

How did you get to see it free?

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-13 02:44am

Maybe he hadn't caught up yet. Or maybe they fucked up. Don't know, it's very unlikely they made a mistake what with all the money they spent.

Emperor Norton II · Post by **Emperor Norton II** » 2002-08-13 02:46am

My employer was able to swing free tickets from the movie company. We got to see FOR a couple of days before the theatrical release. If it’s in the game, it’s in the game.

Subnormal · Post by **Subnormal** » 2002-08-13 02:47am

There's what 50 meters of fabric per rider, I think they had to do a budget cut, the ninth rider had to go.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-13 07:05am

I think the ninth rider was on the can.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-13 02:52pm

Hmmm.... But they did such a good job of getting all of the other details in the film right. I can't believe that it was a mistake, but it almost had to be. Maybe they'll talk about it in the deleted scenes, but that seriously bothered me. Glorfindel was specifically pursued by all nine Ringwraiths. I cannot understand how that was different from the movie.

Incidentally, I have been thinking about that. If Aragorn had destroyed one of their physicial forms during his fight in the Great Watchtower of Aman-Sur, he should have told Arwen that when she told him that there were five of the Wraiths behind him, but she did not know where the other four were. It makes no sense for him to have withheld that information from her.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-08-13 03:33pm

I didnt catch that there were only 8, but it would not surprise me if it was a simple mistake. I heard someplace during the film you see a car driving down a road in the background.

All sorts of things could have gone wrong, mabye one of the horses was sick, or one of the riders for that matter. I dunno, just throwing ideas out there.

If they can change the character being pursued by the wraiths in the first place, why not delete a horse?

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-08-13 04:40pm

Is this during the running chase, or at the ford, because if it's during the chase, then there could be one lagging behind, or running ahead.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2002-08-13 06:34pm

Maybe he was off being the gunman on the grassy knoll. Can we get Oliver Stone in on this?

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2002-08-13 08:39pm

from what I remember from the book, at the ford was when the nine riders finally met up. All before that point they were scattered trying to find Frodo and were slowly joining together. That would explain why maybe there was only eight, the ninth was just showing up. As far as Aragorn killing one, I doubt it. That would negate the little rule when it comes to the Nazgul on how they "cant fall by the hands of man" I don't want to give it away for those who don't know. Count again at how many are being washed away and see if the number is different. If all nine are being washed away then it was probably just a goof up.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-14 12:29am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:I didnt catch that there were only 8, but it would not surprise me if it was a simple mistake. I heard someplace during the film you see a car driving down a road in the background.

All sorts of things could have gone wrong, mabye one of the horses was sick, or one of the riders for that matter. I dunno, just throwing ideas out there.

If they can change the character being pursued by the wraiths in the first place, why not delete a horse?

You can't see a car in the movie. There was one movie critic who was working to slander the film. Of his 50+ attacks on the movie's realism, EVERY SINGLE ONE was a lie. That was one of them. I have examined that scene closely, and there is no car. Another one that's pretty easy to see is that he claimed on Caradhras the hobbits were wearing shoes. They clearly were not. He is just a jerk.

They changed the character in the movie so that Arwen could be more of a character in the movies than in the books, but the only reason I can think of to delete one of the Nine is that Aragorn killed one's physical form. I cannot believe they would have messed up so badly.

Post by **Dalton** » 2002-08-14 01:01am

Didn't he light one up like a candle?

That being said, I don't remember there being less than nine. Were you watching the fullscreen version on a TV? It might have been cut off.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-14 01:19am

I have the widescreen. There are clearly only eight riders.

Aragorn did light one up like a candle. That is the one I believe might have been missing, if they are saying that Aragorn destroyed one of their physical forms. I find this explanation slightly tortured, however, as when Arwen first appeared she told Aragorn that there were five wraiths behind him, but that she did not know where the other four were. Had Aragorn destroyed one of them, he should have known about it and should have told Arwen she only had to watch out for eight of them.

Subnormal · Post by **Subnormal** » 2002-08-14 01:22am

I watched every scene in which the Nazgul(Black Riders) are in, in slow motion and frame by frame(I love Dvds) And it clearly shows Arwen being chased by only 8, and if you look at the cover of your Dvd or VHS(I think VHS has it) you will see that there are only 8 on it also. Lets face the facts Peter Jackson doesn't know how to count.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-14 01:29am

countdooku wrote:I watched every scene in which the Nazgul(Black Riders) are in, in slow motion and frame by frame(I love Dvds) And it clearly shows Arwen being chased by only 8, and if you look at the cover of your Dvd or VHS(I think VHS has it) you will see that there are only 8 on it also. Lets face the facts Peter Jackson doesn't know how to count.

Perhaps you are correct. He seemed so good at all of the other details, though. I am surprised and appalled that he would make such an error without thinking about it. EVERYONE knows that there were nine riders. In fact, their name IS the Nine Riders (one of their names). I'm just astonished that something like that would get through without anyone noticing.

Subnormal · Post by **Subnormal** » 2002-08-14 01:47am

They changed the plot around a lot in Lord of the Rings compared to the book, especially at the end where Aragorn is actually gets a chance to talk to Frodo and let him go. I didn't like the main orc character he could of been left out and still made the movie interesting. Is there a stream in hobbition, I don't remember one. They even leave the encounter with Gollum on the fret in Lothlorien out.

Post by **Dalton** » 2002-08-16 10:42pm

countdooku wrote:They changed the plot around a lot in Lord of the Rings compared to the book, especially at the end where Aragorn is actually gets a chance to talk to Frodo and let him go. I didn't like the main orc character he could of been left out and still made the movie interesting. Is there a stream in hobbition, I don't remember one. They even leave the encounter with Gollum on the fret in Lothlorien out.

There's only so much you can do in eight hours, and I think Jackson made a mighty good effort. Anyway, AFAIK there's a river through Bywater, which is near Hobbiton, called The Water I believe.

As for the Nine Riders, I have no idea. Maybe one was sent ahead to try and cut her off?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-16 10:58pm

No doubt that Jackson knew there were nine riders, because in the movie, Dooku - uh - I mean Saruman says to Gandalf, "The NINE crossed the river Isen this mid summer's eve." So I think its either a simple editing error where they just did not get the nine in the shot at the same time, or perhpas nine riders cluttered the screen too much and Jackson made an artistic decision to depict eight riders but let dialogue state there were nine.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-16 11:06pm

Let me apply ST logic to this

Q did it

The Ninth Rider was acutal engaging in a big Joisting March aginst Picard, Kirk, Luke, Han, Arther and Sherten

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2002-08-18 07:16pm

I rewatched it today and I counted nine. Count right at the point they all draw there swords. Count the number of horses heads. I was watching the full screen version, and the ninth was barely visable. I think since they dont have any defining features(their all in black) they kinda blend in together, Its easier to count the horses heads since they have armor that stands out against all of the black.

LordChaos · Post by **LordChaos** » 2002-08-18 11:08pm

simple answer - the ninth was attempting to cut her off at the ford.

When we get the overhead veiw of the chace, there are 8.

when we get to the ford, all nine are there.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-19 12:28am

Maybe the horse got sick and they couldn't find a replacement. And they couldn't have a guy running around with the other 8 with no horse.

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