Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Darth Wong »

Yes, sixty percent.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/ba ... index.html
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
By Theresa Tamkins

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."

Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them. Health.com: Expert advice on getting health insurance and affordable care for chronic pain

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.

"That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study -- 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."

However, Peter Cunningham, Ph.D., a senior fellow at the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy research organization in Washington, D.C., isn't completely convinced. He says it's often hard to tell in which cases medical bills add to the bleak financial picture without being directly responsible for the bankruptcies.

"I'm not sure that it is correct to say that medical problems were the direct cause of all of these bankruptcies," he says. "In most of these cases, it's going to be medical expenses and other things, other debt that is accumulating."

Either way, he agrees that medical bills are an increasing problem for many people.

"I think medical bills are something that a lot of families are having a lot of difficulty with and whether it's the direct cause of bankruptcy or whether it helps to push them over the edge because they already were in a precarious financial situation, it's a big concern and hopefully that's what medical reform will try to address," he says.

The study may overestimate the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills yet underestimate the financial burden of health care on American families, because most people struggle along but don't end up declaring bankruptcy, according to Cunningham.

"Bankruptcy is the most extreme or final step for people who are having problems paying medical bills," he says. "Medical bills and medical costs are an issue that can very easily and in pretty short order overwhelm a lot families who are on otherwise solid financial ground, including those with private insurance." Health.com: Where to find money to pay for your major health bills

His group's research found that medical bills unduly stress 1 in 5 families.

Either way, the high cost of health care is a problem that's probably getting worse for people in the United States, particularly since the economic picture became grimmer after the study was conducted. Health.com: Yoga moves to beat stress, insomnia, and pain

"The recession didn't happen until a year after our study," says Woolhandler. "We're quite sure that the problem of bankruptcy overall is worse, the numbers have been soaring, and the number this year is expected to be higher than it was before Congress tightened bankruptcy eligibility in 2005."

In 2005, bankruptcies peaked at two million filings.
But we can't have a Canadian-style socialized medicine system, right? Because it eliminates this problem and many others but ... waiting lists! OMG, Canada can't cover 100% of the population and guarantee zero-waiting 100% of the time! Not like the way it is in the United States ... for Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
That's the bit that's most disconcerting, I think. Even if you have health insurance, you're still in danger of getting fucked over.

It's also something that I think gets overlooked a lot, too.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Indeed. Under-insurance is a major issue for those who get sick, as this points out, but due to the fact that it's difficult to actually get a hard number on "under-insurance" (probably because of disagreements over what can be defined as "under-insurance"), it gets very little attention compared to the problem of those with no insurance.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

So in other words, fiscal conservatives are calling nearly a million Americans a bunch of underachieving losers who can't cut the mustard, and it completely escapes them that most other first world nations can cut them some slack without breaking the bank or chasing away their moneymakers.

Seems that American exceptionalism is perfectly justified, but not for the reasons they'd like to believe.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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I've heard someone bitch about the whole waiting thing. Her entire argument to not switching to socialized health care is that she'd have to wait (she has a major medical condition) to be seen while those with a cold or something simple would get to be seen. When I brought up the idea of triage, she just reiterated her argument with less enthusiasm.

Seriously, I can't wait for some form of socialized health care. I know too many friends who don't have any and thus have not been to the doctor in years. And the thought of being off my parent's insurance in a year scares me a little.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by aerius »

It's all the fault of the illegal aliens anyway, they freeload off the system and drive up the costs for everyone which is what causes all the bankruptcies.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Big Orange »

Extortinate health insurance and lack of public healthcare is one of the biggest reasons the automobile makers are up shit creek and why so many other jobs have been outsourced abroad, since workers demanding health coverage is too expensive.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Rahvin »

I find it odd that it's not only wealthy conservatives who are against socialized healthcare. I know of one women, as an example, who has health coverage yet still cannot afford the copayments for her prescription medications (antidepressants, as I recall, so not necessarily life-threatening but those meds would definitely improve her quality of life). The healthcare system is directly failing her, and socialized medicine would immediately affect her everyday life for the better, and yet she vehemently opposes it. These people will actually vote against their own self-interest for the purpose of misguided and ill-informed idealism.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Patrick Degan »

Rahvin wrote:I find it odd that it's not only wealthy conservatives who are against socialized healthcare. I know of one women, as an example, who has health coverage yet still cannot afford the copayments for her prescription medications (antidepressants, as I recall, so not necessarily life-threatening but those meds would definitely improve her quality of life). The healthcare system is directly failing her, and socialized medicine would immediately affect her everyday life for the better, and yet she vehemently opposes it. These people will actually vote against their own self-interest for the purpose of misguided and ill-informed idealism.
More out of fear than idealism. People like the middle-class woman who opposes UHC have had it drummed into their little heads all their lives that "goverment anything" = "SOCIALISM" = "MARXIST DICTATORSHIP". They've been made afraid of the very idea of the public sector because they've been taught that anything that undermines rugged individualism undermines freedom itself.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Guardsman Bass »

aerius wrote:It's all the fault of the illegal aliens anyway, they freeload off the system and drive up the costs for everyone which is what causes all the bankruptcies.
I've heard that one quite a bit, no joke. It's not really surprising - a classic example of the "find an enemy and scapegoat him/her". Which is not to say that illegal immigrants don't impose a burden on medical services, but I've yet to see hard evidence that is somehow a massive factor hurting the system (particularly since, as illegal immigrants, they can't get any of the federal health programs and almost none of the state programs as well).
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by PeZook »

:shock:

And to think that all those crazy militias are worried about seatbelt laws and gun regulation, while shit like that goes down every year.

An entire city of people goes bankrupt due to medical bills every fucking year. It would be enough to instantly collapse some national economies. I suggest you guys send this study en masse to your representatives in congress...this borders on human rights abuse.

Jesus fucking christ...greatest health care system in the world...
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by ray245 »

PeZook wrote::shock:

And to think that all those crazy militias are worried about seatbelt laws and gun regulation, while shit like that goes down every year.

An entire city of people goes bankrupt due to medical bills every fucking year. It would be enough to instantly collapse some national economies. I suggest you guys send this study en masse to your representatives in congress...this borders on human rights abuse.

Jesus fucking christ...greatest health care system in the world...
Sadly, their ego is too big to admit that society as a whole can make bad decisions and needs the government to step in from time to time.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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ray245 wrote: Sadly, their ego is too big to admit that society as a whole can make bad decisions and needs the government to step in from time to time.
To be honest, Obama promised a national health care system, and there is discussion and growing support for one. Of course, amongst the intellectually honest, a crushing stufy like this should end any discussion right then and there: the only controversy remaining should be about details of the system, not whether or not to implement it.

Think about it. A million people, going broke, every year. How can this not make someone care?
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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People do care. I care. I just can't do a damn thing about it.

The American populace has been brainwashed to believe that they have the best medical care in the world (which they don't) and that socialized medicine won't work here/is evil/bad/whatever. For healthy people, they have nothign in their lives to prove differently. There is also a significant slice of Americans who truly believe that a person should be self-reliant and that looking to others, and especially looking to government, for anything is sinful, a sign of weak character, a moral failing, and so on.

One MAJOR objection I have to Obama's plan in its current form is the idea of making purchase of health insurance mandatory. This is NOT a solution! Forcing people to buy something already overpriced? Who decides what is the "hardship" case that deserves government subsidy? What is a "fair" percentage of income to go towards healthcare premiums, and health care costs? And if you exempt people from this mandatory purchase... what then? What do they do for health care? And aren't they likely to be the working poor and chronically ill who are least able to fend for themselves in this matter?
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Serafina »

Well, deciding what "hardship cases" are is easy - everyone who would have to invest more than X percent of his income to get an insurance will receive money from the goverment to do so. Or just everyone below a certain income treshold.

Of course, thats still worse than a socialised medicine.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Aratech »

PeZook wrote:
Think about it. A million people, going broke, every year. How can this not make someone care?
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Old news to me. My folks barely avoided bankruptcy when insurance bailed on us fifteen years ago. Unfortunately, generations of fear mongering against anything other than pure market capitalism has resulted in a population of significant size that is verily brainwashed to turn off their brains at the very mentioning of anything remotely smelling (or at least what they think smells of) socialism.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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Oberst Tharnow wrote:Well, deciding what "hardship cases" are is easy - everyone who would have to invest more than X percent of his income to get an insurance will receive money from the goverment to do so. Or just everyone below a certain income treshold.
Right - my point being who decides the cut-off? What is a "reasonable" percentage of income for health insurance? The state program I'm currently in pegs it at 5% - which really is doable, even on my limited budget. However, a lot of people aren't going to be happy with that because, to be honest, my Other Half's actual medical costs are far in excess of 5% of our income and that's just for maintenance, not any sort of acute problem, and thus will be deemed to not be paying "our fair share" or being "subsidized by the healthy" (which is the case in any medical system). So.... 10% of income? 20%? 30%? What?

Of course, thats still worse than a socialised medicine.
Yes, it is. Ever hear of the expression "Better red than dead"? There really are people in this country who'd rather be dead than under a "socialist" single payer system.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by PeZook »

Broomstick wrote: Yes, it is. Ever hear of the expression "Better red than dead"? There really are people in this country who'd rather be dead than under a "socialist" single payer system.
This typo is amusing, and better yet, probably gives much better indication of the actual stance of most Americans.

People spouting this sentence usually scream a lot about overthrowing the government violently when they see the slightest hint of "socialist policies", but have no qualms about using government-sponsored roads and calling government-run rescue services when something goes wrong.

I'd hazard a guess that the actual number of people who'd rather die than pay somewhat higher taxes and use socialized medicine is ridiculously small.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

PeZook wrote:I'd hazard a guess that the actual number of people who'd rather die than pay somewhat higher taxes and use socialized medicine is ridiculously small.
But are they likely to admit that to themselves before they are already busy dying ? The likelihood that most when it came down to a death or socialism choice would choose socialism won't make any practical difference unless they choose well before it's too late. Which they won't; they'll tell themselves THEY don't need the government's help.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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PeZook wrote:I'd hazard a guess that the actual number of people who'd rather die than pay somewhat higher taxes and use socialized medicine is ridiculously small.
I'd say you're right there, but the problem is that most of the idiots in question won't realise that Option B is death, because it's not immediate. If it were someone standing next to them threatening to infect them with something fatal, then yeah, they'd go for the socialised healthcare.
But if the death in question is phrased as "in a few years you may develop a condition which might not be treated by your insurance company" then they're just going to laugh. These people are living in a permanent state of the "It'll Never Happen To Me" syndrome, and don't realise just how serious the whole thing is.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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Patrick Degan wrote:More out of fear than idealism. People like the middle-class woman who opposes UHC have had it drummed into their little heads all their lives that "goverment anything" = "SOCIALISM" = "MARXIST DICTATORSHIP". They've been made afraid of the very idea of the public sector because they've been taught that anything that undermines rugged individualism undermines freedom itself.
That's part of one of my aunt's anti-UHC arguments. The other is that she compares it having the health-care system run by the DMV.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

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JME2 wrote:That's part of one of my aunt's anti-UHC arguments. The other is that she compares it having the health-care system run by the DMV.
I take issue on a couple of points. First, I don't think DMV offices are actually inefficient, they're just busy. People confuse the two because they're self-involved and think that having to wait on line is a personal affront. I recently got my license renewed, which took about an hour altogether. Ten minutes was me walking to an ATM because the DMV's credit card scanner was down, thirty minutes was me reading the paper and waiting for an available clerk, ten minutes answering the routine questionnaire and doing the basic eye exam, five minutes waiting for the photo kiosk to open, and five minutes waiting while the license-making machine did its thing. So the DMV was actually fairly efficient on a task-basis, because it took only about fifteen minutes of actual work to get me through. This brings me to point two, it takes a long time to complete transactions at the DMV because there's no pressing need for it to move faster. Nobody's going to die because it took them an hour to get their driver's license renewed. If transaction times at DMV offices were a serious issue, then they'd double or triple the number of clerks and reduce time spent waiting by a corresponding amount--but they aren't a serious issue, so they spend an amount of money commensurate with the actual need for speed.

Second, I don't understand why people who think about the government administering medicine always whine about the DMV when there are a bunch of other gov't services they interact with. Like if their house is on fire, they don't rely on a private fire-fighting contractor that they have to buy with huge premiums and massive co-pays and maybe it rejects the call because their house isn't quite on fire enough this time, they call the tax-supported city fire department and they show up just about as fast as humanly possible. Why do people assume that health care will have the characteristics of only the worst government agencies?
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Questor »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
JME2 wrote:That's part of one of my aunt's anti-UHC arguments. The other is that she compares it having the health-care system run by the DMV.
I take issue on a couple of points. First, I don't think DMV offices are actually inefficient, they're just busy.
I agree for the most part, and my recent visit was even faster than yours. My only complaint was the fact that they had an electronic notice board hanging from the roof telling you how long the wait was in every other DMV office in California, but they never mentioned the current office.

Also, the numbers it was showing seemed random. I flat out don't believe that the wait time in Santa Ana was 5 minutes.
Second, I don't understand why people who think about the government administering medicine always whine about the DMV when there are a bunch of other gov't services they interact with.
Because they are told it will be like the DMV. Also, the DMV may be the only state service they actually think of as a state service. Some people have this huge disconnect on what is provided by the state and what isn't.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Darth Wong »

You should ask them what's faster: waiting in line at the DMV or waiting for the insurance company to process a claim.
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Re: Medical bills account for 60% of US bankruptcies

Post by Mayabird »

DMVs also vary greatly from state to state. The ones I was stuck in when I lived in georgia? Sucktastic. Took me hours of standing in line to get my license or get a renewal, and that's when I showed up early. In Washington state? Less than an hour when I showed up at midday and that's including the complementary registering to vote. And they were friendlier too.
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