Cheater sues when school bans her from graduation ceremony

[Minischoles]

I think the for the British equivalent to high school leaving exams if you were caught cheating so blatantly (not that the school would be grading your exams) you'd be failed on every exam in that sitting and might be banned from retaking any for a certain period of time. Massive over-entitlement springs up here and there, I'm more shocked by the sheer leniency of the school's punishment.

You can lose all your marks in an exam (and others that exam board creates, which considering the range covered sometimes could mean close to half your subjects) for your phone going off, in your bag 30 feet away from you (extreme example, but i've seen someone lose their marks for it). For such blatent cheating like this? I've no doubt the examing board would strip all her marks off her and refuse her resits. Since its not the school grading you (IIRC its OCR, Cambridge and Oxford, as well as a few others for the less popular subjects) they don't really care, if you're suspected you stand a chance of losing your marks.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Cheating, dishonesty, and favoritism run rampant in American schools, from junior high on up through the collegiate level. Punish, but with mercy, in the knowledge that those who pay the highest price are often the least able to recover.

You mean give them a slap on the wrist and hope they don't do it again? Gimme a break. She's 18, she's a fucking adult, it's time for her to accept the full responsibility & consequences for her dumbass actions. Giving her worthless token "punishments" is almost certainly how she became such a spoiled brat in the first place, more of the same isn't going to magically fix her attitude problem any more than a bottle of vodka is going to sober up a drunken alcoholic.

Too true. The obvious solution is to keep her from ever going to even such a prestigious institution as a satellite campus of Indiana University. Ideally, she will be confined to chickenshit semi-skilled jobs like burger-flipper or TSA-screener for the rest of her life.

I hate it when I agree with Axis. I wouldn't mind seeing her need to repeat that whole last year of high school, but life-long consequences seem a bit harsh to me.

You did read the article, right? The school gave her the option of staying another year and retaking the course. If she were *really* that interested in furthering her education, she would have put up with that rather minor indignity and got on with her life. The fact that not only did she cheat, not only did she throw a tantrum at the very minor punishment handed to her, but she also refused to agree to a proposed course of action that could actually fix this shows she's not ready for college at all.

Oh, and nice black/white fallacy there, she could still go to a tech-school and get a decent paying job.

[erik_t]

I'd have gladly not taken several of my high school classes, but that does not mean I'm not interested in furthering my education. This is because many high school classes are damned worthless.

[Isolder74]

Who the hell even wants to go to their graduation ceremony anyway? It's boring sitting around while they call people's names, and then more boring speeches. Is it an American thing to actually care about something like that? I remember telling my school principal that I couldn't go to the school speech night (closest analogy in Australia, I'd guess, since you don't graduate until your state exams get marked), and she was downright jealous of me, because even she was only going because she had to.

Shoot, forgot to comment about this.

Yes, it's an American thing. One of those many, many, many stupid American things. High school graduation is supposed to be the culmination of the BEST YEARS OF YOUR LIFE (TM) and thus the MOST IMPORTANT MOMENT OF YOUR LIFE (TM) (except maybe prom or losing your virginity in the back of someone's pickup or something...or both, ugh; still, I knew a number of people who dropped out after senior prom, even though if they just showed up for one more month they'd get the piece of paper, and I'm very sure they hadn't been virgins since middle school anyway).

Another little story out of me. My brother had skipped the last two years of high school and gone to a junior college for a joint enrollment program instead. He went to his college graduation to get his associates degree and then decided not to bother with the high school one a week later, because who the hell cares about a stupid diploma when he already has a college degree? The high school staff could not comprehend why he didn't want to go and kept bugging him even after the ceremony was done with him at home having a relaxing evening playing video games. ("Fine, if you don't want to mail it, don't bother, because I already have a college degree and I don't need or want it. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I wasn't even a student at the high school the last two years.") So yeah, stupid American thing.

It is now such an American thing that some schools are doing graduations ceremonies from Kindergarden, and as made fun of in The Incredibles between grades, just it seems to make the kids and parents feel better for some reason.

On subject I agree that this student is getting off lucky. If someone did this when I was in high school, they wouldn't have graduated at all.

[Aaron]

It is now such an American thing that some schools are doing graduations ceremonies from Kindergarden, and as made fun of in The Incredibles between grades, just it seems to make the kids and parents feel better for some reason.

On subject I agree that this student is getting off lucky. If someone did this when I was in high school, they wouldn't have graduated at all.

Well, it's not just an American thing. My kids both had/have kindergarten grad ceremonies and will likely have one going from grade 8 into high school.

I consider it to be a waste of time and money.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'd have gladly not taken several of my high school classes, but that does not mean I'm not interested in furthering my education. This is because many high school classes are damned worthless.

Did the point make a little flapping noise as it went soaring over your head?

It wasn't the fact that she didn't take the class. It was the fact that she fucking CHEATED and refused to make amends for it. In college there are going to be plenty of mandatory courses that you don't necessarily want to take or even feel are necessary to your particular field of study. You cheat on them, it doesn't matter if they're not directly related to your field, you'll likely get expelled. Why should there be any difference for high school? If she didn't like the course she could have just slacked off and passed with a C, or even failed it since the credits weren't required for graduation. Instead she flouted the rules, showed disrespect on the level of plagiarism, and obviously feels no guilt for it. Why should any post-secondary institution waste its time with her?

[Havok]

Because people can learn from their mistakes? You really want an 18 year old American High School girl i.e. Fucking stupid and in no way mature, to suffer for the rest of her life? Yes, she is technically an adult, but has she done anything that adults do? Of course not. She has no responsibilities, probably has sub standard parents, and obviously has no real world thoughts, understanding or experience. She is a dumb kid. Dumb kids do dumb things. To want her to suffer for the rest of her life for it is completely unreasonable.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Because people can learn from their mistakes? You really want an 18 year old American High School girl i.e. Fucking stupid and in no way mature, to suffer for the rest of her life? Yes, she is technically an adult, but has she done anything that adults do? Of course not. She has no responsibilities, probably has sub standard parents, and obviously has no real world thoughts, understanding or experience. She is a dumb kid. Dumb kids do dumb things. To want her to suffer for the rest of her life for it is completely unreasonable.

I'll clarify, I don't want her completely banned from entering college, but I'd prefer to see her have to jump through a number of hoops to get in, and be watched very closely until she's proven that she knows not to do something that stupid again.

EDIT: A slight addition. Yeah, she's not exactly an adult, but cheating isn't exactly an adulthood experience. It should be something that's hammered into a kid alongside 'Don't take candy from strangers' and 'Don't punch the kid sitting next to you'. The fact that she cheated and apparently feels no real guilt over it shows that she's quite immature even for her age.

[Darth Wong]

Because people can learn from their mistakes? You really want an 18 year old American High School girl i.e. Fucking stupid and in no way mature, to suffer for the rest of her life? Yes, she is technically an adult, but has she done anything that adults do? Of course not. She has no responsibilities, probably has sub standard parents, and obviously has no real world thoughts, understanding or experience. She is a dumb kid. Dumb kids do dumb things. To want her to suffer for the rest of her life for it is completely unreasonable.

So if Indiana University rejects her application and she has to go back to high school to upgrade her diploma and try again, this is "suffering for the rest of her life?"

I call bullshit. If she actually can't find a way to recover from any of the penalties prescribed here, then she does deserve to suffer for the rest of her life because she must be a fucking retard.

Let me put it this way: if you ran a business, would you hire this person? No goddamned way, unless she does something to show that she's learned her lesson. Getting off with no real penalty and then waving her sense of entitlement around for all to see is not exactly what I would call a demonstration of contrition.

[Havok]

Because people can learn from their mistakes? You really want an 18 year old American High School girl i.e. Fucking stupid and in no way mature, to suffer for the rest of her life? Yes, she is technically an adult, but has she done anything that adults do? Of course not. She has no responsibilities, probably has sub standard parents, and obviously has no real world thoughts, understanding or experience. She is a dumb kid. Dumb kids do dumb things. To want her to suffer for the rest of her life for it is completely unreasonable.

So if Indiana University rejects her application and she has to go back to high school to upgrade her diploma and try again, this is "suffering for the rest of her life?"

I call bullshit. If she actually can't find a way to recover from any of the penalties prescribed here, then she does deserve to suffer for the rest of her life because she must be a fucking retard.

Let me put it this way: if you ran a business, would you hire this person? No goddamned way, unless she does something to show that she's learned her lesson. Getting off with no real penalty and then waving her sense of entitlement around for all to see is not exactly what I would call a demonstration of contrition.

Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

[erik_t]

Right, but the universities can see for themselves what diplomas say and mean. They don't need internet vigilantes calling admissions departments to report high school cheating.

[Darth Wong]

Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

You will, of course, show me where people said that.

[Darth Wong]

Right, but the universities can see for themselves what diplomas say and mean. They don't need internet vigilantes calling admissions departments to report high school cheating.

That depends on just how her diploma is written up. I doubt they will put a big red "CHEATER WITH A SEVERE ATTITUDE PROBLEM" on her diploma.

[Axis Kast]

So if Indiana University rejects her application and she has to go back to high school to upgrade her diploma and try again, this is "suffering for the rest of her life?"

I call bullshit. If she actually can't find a way to recover from any of the penalties prescribed here, then she does deserve to suffer for the rest of her life because she must be a fucking retard.

Let me put it this way: if you ran a business, would you hire this person? No goddamned way, unless she does something to show that she's learned her lesson. Getting off with no real penalty and then waving her sense of entitlement around for all to see is not exactly what I would call a demonstration of contrition.

The school didn't offer to expunge her record; they offered her the opportunity to obtain a different kind of diploma (a rarity in the first place). If she is rejected from IU or any of its affiliates, it will most likely be because of her confirmed dishonesty.

However, the idea this person should be limited to a particular kind of low-wage profession for the rest of their life for a single mistake is petty in the extreme, and speaks more to sadism and ego than professionalism and a well-developed sense of fair play. Going out of your way to casually mention this student to a friend who works for the university? It's no different than what Graeme Dice proposed to do to Ryan - which plenty of people here had a problem with.

That depends on just how her diploma is written up. I doubt they will put a big red "CHEATER WITH A SEVERE ATTITUDE PROBLEM" on her diploma.

In American schools, cheating goes on your transcripts, which are sent after one graduates. If she was already accepted at an institution of higher learning, the revelation would probably be grounds for revocation of the offer.

You will, of course, show me where people said that.

See erik_t's comment.

[Havok]

Because people can learn from their mistakes? You really want an 18 year old American High School girl i.e. Fucking stupid and in no way mature, to suffer for the rest of her life? Yes, she is technically an adult, but has she done anything that adults do? Of course not. She has no responsibilities, probably has sub standard parents, and obviously has no real world thoughts, understanding or experience. She is a dumb kid. Dumb kids do dumb things. To want her to suffer for the rest of her life for it is completely unreasonable.

I'll clarify, I don't want her completely banned from entering college, but I'd prefer to see her have to jump through a number of hoops to get in, and be watched very closely until she's proven that she knows not to do something that stupid again.

I agree with that, she should be made to do more than the average HS student now. That is her bed.

EDIT: A slight addition. Yeah, she's not exactly an adult, but cheating isn't exactly an adulthood experience. It should be something that's hammered into a kid alongside 'Don't take candy from strangers' and 'Don't punch the kid sitting next to you'. The fact that she cheated and apparently feels no real guilt over it shows that she's quite immature even for her age.

You aren't supposed to take candy from strangers? Shit.

I think that can be chalked up to her obviously retarded parents. You know the ones that got her a lawyer to try to get her out of the mistake she made instead of telling her that she has to own up to it and accept the repercussions of her actions. And I'm not sure if it shows more immaturity than the average 18 year old, more than it shows the way the average 18 year old has been brought up in todays society.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

[Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

Umm... the school gave her the option of re-taking the class. I pointed that out in the very post you implied that I was saying she would 'suffer for the rest of her life'.

She chose not to re-take the class and spend another year in school, then yeah, I see no problem with universities closing their doors to her. I'm trying to get back into school right now, I dropped out a few years back due to financial problems, and came close to failing several classes because of it. I would be perfectly willing to retake those classes if I had failed them, and I *don't* cheat. Seems to me she's just a petulant brat and being told, "Finish the classes without cheating or you're not setting foot in this school" is one of the nicest ways to slap some reality into her.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

See erik_t's comment.

You do realize he was being sarcastic, right?

[Havok]

Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

You will, of course, show me where people said that.

Somehow I doubt this means she's learned her lesson. Come on, Indiana University, you know you want to kick her out on her ass while laughing maniacally.

Someone needs to inform the university about the cheating bitch so she never gets admitted.

Take those comments as you will, but never wanting someone to get admitted to college, or summarily kicked out with glee, seems like a punishment for life, unless you are all of a sudden changing your opinions on people getting a higher education.

[Havok]

[Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

Umm... the school gave her the option of re-taking the class. I pointed that out in the very post you implied that I was saying she would 'suffer for the rest of her life'.

She chose not to re-take the class and spend another year in school, then yeah, I see no problem with universities closing their doors to her. I'm trying to get back into school right now, I dropped out a few years back due to financial problems, and came close to failing several classes because of it. I would be perfectly willing to retake those classes if I had failed them, and I *don't* cheat. Seems to me she's just a petulant brat and being told, "Finish the classes without cheating or you're not setting foot in this school" is one of the nicest ways to slap some reality into her.

I think you are the one that needs to reread the article. They didn't give her the option to retake the class, they gave her the option to retake the test for the class. She is going to graduate and get her diploma. She just isn't going to get the higher diploma that the class she didn't do well in and had her grade changed in would have gotten her.
I'm also assuming that the college she applied to doesn't require the higher degree or she wouldn't be talking about how she will be attending it, knowing that she no longer will have the higher degree.

That said, she absolutely deserves punishment, more than she has received IMO, I just don't think it should be a punishment that continues to punish her as she moves on in life.

As for her being a brat, I have already covered what I think about that.

[aerius]

It's not just the fact that she cheated, it's also the way she did it and her seemingly unrepentant attitude. What she did was more like a bank employee getting one of her co-workers to hack the customer & payroll accounts and dump a few hundred k into her own account, it wasn't a "oops I accidentally pocketed a $20 from the till" kinda deal. If you pocket a $20 from the till you'll probably get in a ton of shit from the bank and they might fire you, and that'll probably be the end of that. But if you're conspiring to pilfer customer accounts for your own profit, you're getting fired, you're going to jail, you'll never work in a bank again, and you'll be very limited in the jobs which you can hold after you get out of jail. There are severe life-long consequences. Unless you're a CEO and friends with the Goldman-Sachs mafia, in which case you become the Treasury Secretary for being a tax cheat.

It's one thing to sneak a peak at the nerd's test answers when the teacher ain't looking, it's a whole other ballgame to conspire in hacking the school's computer system to bump your grades.

[Darth Wong]

Oh she deserves to be punished. That is going to be the first adult thing she experiences. And learning to overcome the mistake she has made is going to be the second, but the way that some people are talking, it is as if they want her to wear a Scarlett 'C' on her chest for the rest of her life, and I feel that that is taking the punishment way to far.

You will, of course, show me where people said that.

Somehow I doubt this means she's learned her lesson. Come on, Indiana University, you know you want to kick her out on her ass while laughing maniacally.

Someone needs to inform the university about the cheating bitch so she never gets admitted.

Take those comments as you will, but never wanting someone to get admitted to college, or summarily kicked out with glee, seems like a punishment for life, unless you are all of a sudden changing your opinions on people getting a higher education.

So if she gets rejected for university this year, this is the end of her options in life? Once again, bullshit.

[Havok]

It's not just the fact that she cheated, it's also the way she did it and her seemingly unrepentant attitude. What she did was more like a bank employee getting one of her co-workers to hack the customer & payroll accounts and dump a few hundred k into her own account, it wasn't a "oops I accidentally pocketed a $20 from the till" kinda deal. If you pocket a $20 from the till you'll probably get in a ton of shit from the bank and they might fire you, and that'll probably be the end of that. But if you're conspiring to pilfer customer accounts for your own profit, you're getting fired, you're going to jail, you'll never work in a bank again, and you'll be very limited in the jobs which you can hold after you get out of jail. There are severe life-long consequences. Unless you're a CEO and friends with the Goldman-Sachs mafia, in which case you become the Treasury Secretary for being a tax cheat.

It's one thing to sneak a peak at the nerd's test answers when the teacher ain't looking, it's a whole other ballgame to conspire in hacking the school's computer system to bump your grades.

You obviously didn't read the article either. No one "hacked" the computer system. There was no conspiracy. The student who was expelled saw a teachers password and decided to use it.

I'm gonna go out on a limb as say it went something like this:

Expelled: "Oh man I got Ms Teacher's system password today! I'm gonna change my grade in science!"

Student 1: "That's not a good idea."

Suing Student: "Well I could change the grade in the one class I took that I didn't do well in. That's the only class I need to get the better diploma."

Student 2: "Sweet! Change my PE grade!"

Student 3: "Yeah change my History grade!"

Student 1: "Oh well, I guess change my English grade. I hope we don't get caught."

Any way it went, it was kids making a dumbass decision. Not much of a surprise there, but it was not some grand scheme with an evil mastermind behind it. Also, whether or not it even effected other people is debatable, but it certainly is not on par with your stealing money example, which explicitly is hurting others.

[Darth Wong]

You obviously didn't read the article either. No one "hacked" the computer system. There was no conspiracy. The student who was expelled saw a teachers password and decided to use it.

And this changes the situation ... how?

If I see someone type in an entry code on a secure door and then use that code to gain entry to the building, it's breaking and entering. It isn't any less breaking and entering than it would be if I had some high-tech way of getting that code.

[Havok]

You will, of course, show me where people said that.

Somehow I doubt this means she's learned her lesson. Come on, Indiana University, you know you want to kick her out on her ass while laughing maniacally.

Someone needs to inform the university about the cheating bitch so she never gets admitted.

Take those comments as you will, but never wanting someone to get admitted to college, or summarily kicked out with glee, seems like a punishment for life, unless you are all of a sudden changing your opinions on people getting a higher education.

So if she gets rejected for university this year, this is the end of her options in life? Once again, bullshit.

Ah, so wanting someone to not get admitted to one college because of cheating means that they can just go apply to another one or wait until next year, and then all of a sudden they will not be a cheating bitch that should never get admitted? Yeah. As I said, it seems as if people want her to be recognized as a cheater for the rest of her life, and that is taking the punishment to far. And I'm not talikng about her options, I'm talking about how people are responding in this thread.

[Darth Wong]

Ah, so wanting someone to not get admitted to one college because of cheating means that they can just go apply to another one or wait until next year, and then all of a sudden they will not be a cheating bitch that should never get admitted? Yeah.

What are you, a fucking retard? I already said she has the option to go back, redo the course without cheating, and upgrade her diploma, thus demonstrating that she's capable of playing the game fairly.

As I said, it seems as if people want her to be recognized as a cheater for the rest of her life, and that is taking the punishment to far. And I'm not talikng about her options, I'm talking about how people are responding in this thread.

Why shouldn't she be recognized as a cheater for the rest of her life? Are you saying that any record of this incident should be erased? How the fuck is that fair to all the people out there who don't cheat?