French airliner missing over Atlantic

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I got a reply back on the safety margins built into Flight Data Recorders. It's 100 percent. The appropriate standard is ARINC-747

Well, I'll be dipped in shit. That's one hell of a safety margin. Forget about the Challenger Deep; we'd have to start digging with turbolasers to find enough pressure to break one in. Rather comforting, in a neurotic sort of way.

[Broomstick]

I confess I'm a bit surprised myself - I was only expecting a 50% safety margin. Well, IF they can find the things and IF they can retrieve them then there is a good chance we'll get some valuable information off the data storage.

And yeah, aviation IS neurotic that way.

[Broomstick]

It seems they have found a major debris field, as reported by the Chicago Tribune

Brazil's military says 17 bodies have been recovered in Atlantic from Air France crash

RECIFE, Brazil (AP) — Brazilian military authorities say search boats scouring the Atlantic Ocean have now recovered 17 bodies of passengers on a doomed Air France flight that crashed a week ago.

Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz says four of the bodies were men and four were women. He did not immediately provide information about the gender of the other bodies. The flight was carrying 228 people when it crashed the night of May 31.

This makes me wonder if some of the bodies were in pieces, making gender identification difficult. As this sort of accident can result in clothes being ripped off people clothing will not be of much assistance in identification. IF that is the case (and I emphasize that is purely speculation) then it lends support to a violent break-up. There are certain key injuries that occur with certain specific scenarios. For example, explosive decompression can result in lung damage that would be apparent on autopsy. Absence of same indicates a slower decompression. Water deep in the lungs indicates people were alive when they hit the water whereas lack of it indicates they were dead prior to impact. Patterns of wounds matched to a seating chart can indicate what parts of the airplane broke up first, and sometimes point to a cause. These are nasty, gruesome things but nonetheless important to accident investigations which is why it's import to recover bodies, especially when we may not be able to recover the black boxes. Horrifying to relatives, though, so I would be happy if we don't hear about this in detail until the official accident report is issued.

Munhoz also told reporters Sunday night that several structural parts of the Airbus 330 were recovered at the location from which Flight 447 sent a burst of messages saying it was having electrical problems and loss of cabin pressure.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

RECIFE, Brazil (AP) — Search ships methodically worked through a "sea of debris" from a doomed Air France jet Sunday, recovering four more bodies near the spot where the Airbus A330 is believed to have gone down a week ago.

Six bodies have been retrieved since Saturday and ships were headed to pick up more Sunday afternoon after pilots participating in a grid search reported additional sightings. The bodies have been found in an area about 45 miles (70 kilometers) from where the jet sent out messages signaling electrical failures and loss of cabin pressure.

"We're navigating through a sea of debris," Brazilian Navy Capt. Giucemar Tabosa Cardoso said.

Brazil's military is not releasing information about bodies or debris that have not been taken aboard ships, after sea trash was mistaken last week for a cargo pallet from the plane, prompting criticism.

Not from me! I'd rather wait and get definitive information in a day or three than have instant information that's in error.

Flight 447 disappeared and likely broke up in midair in turbulent weather May 31 during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 people aboard — all now presumed dead.

The investigation is increasingly focused on whether external instruments on the Airbus A330 may have iced over, confusing speed sensors and leading computers to set the plane's speed too fast or slow — a potentially deadly mistake.

The French agency investigating the disaster said airspeed instruments on the plane had not been replaced as the maker had recommended, but cautioned that it was too early to draw conclusions about what role that may have played in the crash.

I think there may be a trifle too much focus on these pitot tubes. Of course the matter will be looked at, but though instruments are continually refined pitot tubes have been around since the 1700's and have been used in aircraft since... well, a long time ago. Pre-WWII for sure. It's a pretty mature device.

However, iced-over pitot tubes have occurred, one such incident being Austral Lineas Aereas Flight 2253, a DC-9 also flying at night in stormy weather and relying on instruments. The accident account illustrates why this can be a Bad Thing and why the pitot-static system will, of course, be considered by the accident investigators.

The airbus has at least 3 separate pitot-static systems, and I believe they are all mounted on different locations on the airplane in order to avoid having all of them fail at once. Should the airplane detect conflicting readings the autopilot is supposed to disengage and alarms are supposed to sound in order to alert the humans on board there is a problem and the pilots need to exercise their skill and judgment to resolve the problem.

The agency, BEA, said the plane received inconsistent airspeed readings from different instruments as it struggled in a massive thunderstorm.

In Brazil, Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz said he could not immediately provide information on how many more bodies were spotted from the air. Cardoso said late Sunday morning that ships should be able to recover some of them within hours despite rainy weather and poor visibility.

Brazilian investigators are searching a zone of several hundred square miles (square kilometers) roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands off Brazil's northern coast.

None of the bodies recovered Sunday had documents with them to indicate their identities, and authorities said they did not know their gender. The first two bodies, found Saturday, were men.

Brazil's navy found three bodies Sunday morning and French helicopter crew later retrieved a fourth body.

Christophe Prazuck, a spokesman for the French military, said the fourth body was discovered not far from the other three found Sunday. It was not immediately clear if the most recent body was male or female.

Munhoz and Cardoso declined comment on the condition of the recovered bodies, saying the release of that information would be too emotionally painful for relatives.

Ew. Sometimes my imagination is too vivid. Ew.

Of course, floating in the Atlantic for a few days, exposed to various hungry lifeforms from bacteria to large fish, has probably done nothing to improve appearances.

Authorities also announced that searchers spotted two airplane seats and other debris with Air France's logo, and they have recovered jet wing fragments and other plane debris.

Munhoz said there is "no more doubt" that the wreckage is from Flight 447.

Hundreds of personal items belonging to the passengers have been recovered, but Munhoz said authorities would not immediately identify them because relatives of the victims were devastated by the announcement Saturday that a laptop computer and briefcase containing a plane ticket had been found.

"We don't want to cause them more suffering," Munhoz said.

The bodies and plane wreckage were being transported by ship and should arrive Monday at the Brazilian islands of Fernando de Noronha, where the military has set up a staging post for the search operation. From there, remains and debris will be taken to the northeastern coastal city of Recife for identification.

Air France Flight 447 emitted its last signals roughly 400 miles (640 kilometers) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha islands.

Brazilian authorities have refused since the search began to release precise coordinates where they are looking, except to say the area lies southwest of the last jet transmission and could have indicated the pilot was trying to turn around in mid-flight and head to Fernando de Noronha.

Thank goodness - I'd like to think that there wouldn't be a convoy of papparazzi in boats headed there if the exact coordinates were known, but, alas, I am not so naive. Vultures, the new media are vultures...!

Munhoz on Sunday would not say how far apart the bodies had been found, and referred comment to French authorities as to whether the locations of the bodies could help determine whether the plane broke up in the air.

The Pentagon has said there are no signs of terrorism. Brazil's defense minister said the possibility was never considered. French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner agreed that there is no evidence supporting a "terrorism theory," but said "we cannot discard that for now."

Brazilian officials are focusing on the recovery of victims and plane wreckage, not the plane's black box data and voice recorders, which could reveal why the jet crashed. Finding the black boxes is the mission of the French government, with help from the United States.

The U.S. Navy is sending two high-tech devices to French ships that will help them locate the boxes, a senior U.S. defense official said Saturday.

The Towed Pinger Locators, which can detect emergency beacons to a depth of 20,000 feet (6,100 meters), are being flown to Brazil on Monday with a U.S. Navy team, said the official, who requested anonymity because the decision has not been announced.

Wouldn't surprise me if some military hardware will be getting a real-world test on this mission, maybe some hardware whose capabilities the government doesn't want advertised in detail. Certainly is a challenge to find something that size at the bottom of the Atlantic, I hope they are successful in recovering them. I heard on the TV that the expense of the operation is expected to be measured in 10's of millions but if the governments involved are willing to pay it... well, we all want to know what happened, it will be a good training exercise for those involved, and if successful will result in much goodwill I think. Better yet if the information leads to avoiding a future accident.

The team will deliver the locators to two French tugs that will use them to listen for transmissions from the black box, the official said.

France has appointed Foreign Ministry official Pierre-Jean Vandoorne to act as ambassador to families of the crash victims, the French prime minister's office said in a statement Sunday.

Marco Sibaja reported from Recife and Alan Clendenning reported from Sao Paulo. AP Writers Emma Vandore and Greg Keller contributed from Paris.

[Kanastrous]

I may have missed something, but are modern jetliners really solely dependent upon pitot tubes for airspeed measurement? My motorcycle's GPS receiver can calculate ground-track speed; it seems reasonable to expect that a commercial airliner's GPS fit could do the same, or hopefully better. Aren't instrument readings cross-checked by the flight computer? Wouldn't a disagreement between the GPS speed report and the pitot tubes input result in an alarm being raised, for the crew?

And, since most radio frequencies don't travel too far through water, what are the searchers listening for, while looking for pinging boxes - isn't the ping and RF signal? Or is there an acoustic pinger, too?

* EDIT - never mind; it just occurred to me that a GPS speed reading wouldn't tell you much about airspeed, since the GPS system can't account for what the air itself is doing...

[Broomstick]

And, since most radio frequencies don't travel too far through water, what are the searchers listening for, while looking for pinging boxes - isn't the ping and RF signal? Or is there an acoustic pinger, too?

Honestly, I don't know - I only know that whatever is used is supposed to be able to reliably transmit through a LOT of water. Quite possible there is both, but really, I don't know the answer to that one.

* EDIT - never mind; it just occurred to me that a GPS speed reading wouldn't tell you much about airspeed, since the GPS system can't account for what the air itself is doing...

Bingo - you got it. The pitot-static system is still what tells an airplane it's airspeed. It's critical enough that all airliners have at least three, and even a lot of small general aviation aircraft have two. It's a fairly simple concept, requires no electrical power (although heating elements to prevent icing might need it), they're structurally pretty simple, and as long as the openings don't get blocked it's pretty reliable.

Now, sometimes cross-checking airspeed with groundspeed (and groundspeed is what you get off GPS) can be important, but for different reasons.

[Kanastrous]

Now, sometimes cross-checking airspeed with groundspeed (and groundspeed is what you get off GPS) can be important, but for different reasons.

Fuel calculations, I suppose.

[Broomstick]

Yes.

Also, groundspeed can be important in, say, crossing an international border - for the US/Canandan border you have a 15 minute window in which to cross, if you arrive early or are running late you must contact the appropriate agencies or else you will find two military jets flying off your wings.

Also, a HUGE discrepancy can alert you that there is a problem, even if not specifically defining it. For example, if your airspeed says 100 knots and GPS says 300 knots you might have a hell of a tailwind. Or something else could be amiss, like either your GPS or your airspeed indicator is wrong. Definitely time to cross check a bunch of stuff.

Bottom line, both speed are important, but for different reasons.

[Wicked Pilot]

In the event of a complete pitot tube(s) loss your best bet is to fly known pitch and power settings. If power A at flight level B was holding you at indicated airspeed C, then by god keep it that way. Perhaps even crack it back a bit to make sure you don't overspeed something. If you're getting too slow and close to stall it'd be easy to tell via the deck angle increase needed to hold level flight.

[Kanastrous]

You know, A330s have been known to exhibit violent uncommanded maneuvers before - like what happened to Qantas Flight 72 a year (two years?) ago. Flying along, and suddenly with no warning the aircraft goes into a sharp dive (twice, and hard enough to injure a bunch of people on board, some seriously, before the flight crew could bring the aircraft back for landing).

Aside from pitot-tube problems, I wonder what the odds might be that this known problem could have wrecked the Air France plane - sudden violent uncommanded maneuvers in the middle of rough weather seeming more threatening than such behavior in clear air...

EDIT - the Qantas malfunction was caused by a bad ADIRU unit - similar problems have happened on other, non-Airbus aircraft...

[Broomstick]

Supposedly, the Air France flight had an ADIRU built by another manufacturer, or another model of it, but my information that regard is sketchy and hampered by my imperfect ability to translate from French sources. If someone has a good English language (or other language, for that matter) source please feel free to add it to the thread.

Most certainly that possibility is also being looked at. The problem is that there's virtually no way to rule that either in or out unless we recover the black boxes, and even then there is no guarantee.

[FSTargetDrone]

You know, A330s have been known to exhibit violent uncommanded maneuvers before - like what happened to Qantas Flight 72 a year (two years?) ago.

The Qantas incident was in October 2008:

Tuesday, 9 June 2009 6:32 PM

Qantas A330 probes to remain after Air France crash

Australian Associated Press

Qantas has received no safety directives regarding its A330 aircraft in the wake of the Air France crash off Brazil.

There have been some concerns raised in reports suggesting the Qantas jets may be susceptible to the problem which investigators are studying as a possible cause of the crash.

Brazilian and French officials are preparing to identify the first 16 bodies recovered from an area in the Atlantic where the Air France jet crashed over a week ago killing all 228 people aboard.

In recent days, investigators have looked at a range of possibilities for the crash, including faulty speed sensors and or pitot (pitot) probes.

"There are two manufacturers of pitot probes for Airbus aircraft," a Qantas spokesman said.

"Qantas uses an alternate manufacturer to Air France.

"Qantas has not received any directive or recommendation from either our pitot probe manufacturer, or from Airbus or regulatory authorities, to replace these probes."

The spokesman said the Flying Kangaroo had complied with all directives and recommendations in regard to the safety of the fleet.

He confirmed there was no link between the Air France crash and a mid-air emergency on board a Qantas jet over Western Australia in October 2008.

"It would appear that the circumstances in each were very different," he said.

[Sarevok]

Another A330 in trouble.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8094388.stm

Fire forces Australia jet to land
A Jetstar plane, file image
Jetstar is a low-cost airline based in Australia and Singapore

An Australian passenger plane with 203 people on board has been forced into an emergency landing after a fire broke out in the cockpit.

The Airbus A330, operated by Jetstar, was flying from Japan to Australia when a window in the cockpit caught fire.

The pilots managed to put out the fire before landing in Guam. Jetstar said all of those on board were unharmed.

A similar model of the Airbus, operated by Air France, crashed on a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris last week.

All 228 passengers died in that incident.

The Jetstar plane was four hours into its flight to the Gold Coast in Queensland when the fire broke out.

"Smoke became evident in the cockpit and one of our pilots was required to use an extinguisher," Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway told Australia's ABC News.

Cannot play media.You do not have the correct version of the flash player. Download the correct version

"We conducted an emergency diversion to Guam international airport where the aircraft landed without incident."

He said the plane, which is two years old, would be held in Guam until the cause of the fire was established.

Most of the passengers were reported to be Japanese nationals.

Jetstar is part-owned by Australia's national carrier, Qantas.

[Kanastrous]

A window caught fire? I wonder what the ignition source would be, that could ignite the plexi (are Airbus cockpit windows plexi, or glass...?) or maybe the seal around it...

[Hawkwings]

How the hell does a window catch fire? It sounds more like there was some sort of electrical fire, possibly near a window.

[Edi]

In the Canary islands, another Airbus suffered engine trouble and lost one engine right after takeoff, necessitating an immediate return to the airport. Nobody got hurt in that.

[Broomstick]

A window caught fire? I wonder what the ignition source would be, that could ignite the plexi (are Airbus cockpit windows plexi, or glass...?) or maybe the seal around it...

They aren't glass - not sure of the exact synthetic, but they aren't glass.

Airliner windows in the cockpit actually have a heating element embedded in them, to prevent ice from covering it and blocking the pilots' view. It is possible that the heating system caught fire.

The problem from that is not only the fire - which is damn scary enough when you're locked in an aluminum tube far above the ground - but it could also potentially weaken or warp the window, leading to a depressurization incident. Fortunately, the window held intact in this case.

In the Canary islands, another Airbus suffered engine trouble and lost one engine right after takeoff, necessitating an immediate return to the airport. Nobody got hurt in that.

Engine problem handled properly. Almost routine although, of course, no one wants to think of a failed engine as "routine" and certainly it shouldn't be common!

These two incidents are most likely unrelated to what happened to Flight 447. After every major accident we all become a little more aware of airplane problems, but problems like the above do happen. They are also usually dealt with promptly and usually no one gets hurt.

[Edi]

Engine problem handled properly. Almost routine although, of course, no one wants to think of a failed engine as "routine" and certainly it shouldn't be common!

These two incidents are most likely unrelated to what happened to Flight 447. After every major accident we all become a little more aware of airplane problems, but problems like the above do happen. They are also usually dealt with promptly and usually no one gets hurt.

Not disagreeing with this. But understandably that's hotter news now than it would otherwise be, because of Flight 447.

[Archaic`]

Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447

Breaking News
Terror Names Linked To Doomed Flight AF 447

3:58pm UK, Wednesday June 10, 2009

Peter Allen, in Paris
Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on the Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it has emerged.

Air France debris on board a Brazilian Navy vessel

Debris from Air France flight AF 447 has been recovered from the Atlantic

French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31.

Flight AF 447 crashed in the mid-Atlantic en route to Paris during a violent storm.

While it is certain there were computer malfunctions, terrorism has not been ruled out.

Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.

It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly-classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.

A source working for the French security services told Paris weekly L'Express that the link was "highly significant".

Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.

There is a possibility the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence", the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously".

France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan.

Security chiefs have been particularly worried about airborne suicide attacks similar to the ones on the US on September 11, 2001.

Deliberate act of sabotage?

[Surlethe]

It's possibly sabotage, but in the absence of evidence beyond similar names, the reasonable (tentative) conclusion is weather. There's no need to posit a conspiracy where there's not - the plane was flying through a huge-ass thunderstorm as it radioed messages that key systems were slowly failing, and that's perfectly sufficient to explain a crash. Now, if plane fragments show explosive residue, a recovered cockpit recorder has the sounds of the door being forced open, there are detailed plans of attack in the men's apartments, etc., it would be reasonable to entertain conspiracy theories.

[Broomstick]

Another indication of a bomb would be shrapnel embedded in the bodies of passengers which could indicate the location of the device when it detonated, materials used, and force of blast. Hence, another reason to recover and identify bodies and why seating lists are important. Yet another one of those icky things about accident investigation.

I'm still leaning towards "weather" as the primary cause, but other possibilities must still be accounted for. Even if the two suspects were Evil People it is entirely possible that they were taking a trip with no malice intended and simply had the same misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time as everyone else.

[Wicked Pilot]

To add to the 'window on fire' discussion, I've had that happen to me. The NESA (Nonelectrostatic Shield Formula A) ie windshield anti-ice, started arching on the outside of the window pane. It wasn't engulfed in flames like some may imagine, but it did start to burn a hole into it. Had the burn been on the inside it's possible we'd have gotten smoke in the cockpit.

[FSTargetDrone]

To add to the 'window on fire' discussion, I've had that happen to me. The NESA (Nonelectrostatic Shield Formula A) ie windshield anti-ice, started arching on the outside of the window pane. It wasn't engulfed in flames like some may imagine, but it did start to burn a hole into it. Had the burn been on the inside it's possible we'd have gotten smoke in the cockpit.

See, that's the problem with news reports intended for a general audience. They story could have easily said something like, "defrosting wiring in the window caught fire" (or whatever). Just about anyone who drives is familiar with the heating elements embedded in the rear window of many cars, so it isn't a difficult concept for the layperson and makes the story less confusing.

[FSTargetDrone]

Getting some more information now from autopsies:

Autopsies suggest Air France jet broke up in sky

By STAN LEHMAN and EMMA VANDORE – 1 hour ago

SAO PAULO (AP) — Autopsies revealed fractures in the legs, hips and arms of Air France disaster victims, a Brazilian official said Wednesday. Experts said those injuries — and the large pieces of wreckage pulled from the Atlantic — strongly suggest the plane broke up in the air.

With more than 400 bits of debris recovered from the ocean's surface, the top French investigator expressed optimism about discovering what brought down Flight 447, but he also called the conditions — far from land in very deep waters — "one of the worst situations ever known in an accident investigation."

French investigators are beginning to form "an image that is progressively less fuzzy," Paul-Louis Arslanian, who runs the French air accident investigation agency BEA, told a news conference outside Paris.

"We are in a situation that is a bit more favorable than the first days," Arslanian said. "We can say there is a little less uncertainty, so there is a little more optimism. ... (but) it is premature for the time being to say what happened."

A spokesman for Brazilian medical examiners told The Associated Press that fractures were found in autopsies on an undisclosed number of the 50 bodies recovered so far. The official spoke on condition he not be named due to department rules.

"Typically, if you see intact bodies and multiple fractures — arm, leg, hip fractures — it's a good indicator of a midflight break up," said Frank Ciacco, a former forensic expert at the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board. "Especially if you're seeing large pieces of aircraft as well."

The pattern of fractures was first reported Wednesday by Brazil's O Estado de S. Paulo newspaper, which cited unnamed investigators. The paper also reported that some victims were found with little or no clothing, and had no signs of burns.

That lack of clothing could be significant, said Jack Casey, an aviation safety consultant in Washington, D.C., who is a former accident investigator. "In an in-air break up like we are supposing here, the clothes are just torn away."

Casey also said multiple fractures are consistent with a midair breakup of the plane, which was cruising at about 34,500 feet (10,500 meters) when it went down.

"Getting ejected into that kind of windstream is like hitting a brick wall — even if they stay in their seats, it is a crushing effect," Casey said. "Most of them were long dead before they hit the water would be my guess."

When a jet crashes into water mostly intact — such as the Egypt Air plane that hit the Atlantic Ocean after taking off from New York in 1999 — debris and bodies are generally broken into small pieces, Ciacco said. "When you've had impact in the water, there is a lot more fragmentation of the bodies. They hit the water with a higher force."

Lack of burn evidence would not necessarily rule out an explosion, said John Goglia, a former member of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

If something caused the lower fuselage to burn or explode, "passengers would not be exposed to any blast damage" and the plane would still disintegrate in flight," Goglia said. "These are scenarios that cannot be ruled out."

Searchers from Brazil, France, the United States and other countries are methodically scanning the surface and depths of the Atlantic for signs of the Airbus A330 that crashed May 31 after running into thunderstorms en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. All 228 people aboard were killed.

Still missing are the plane's flight data and voice recorders, thought to be deep under water.

French-chartered ships are trolling a search area with a radius of 50 miles (80 kilometers), pulling U.S. Navy underwater listening devices attached to 19,700 feet (6,000 meters) of cable. The black boxes send out an electronic tapping sound that can be heard up to 1.25 miles (2 kilometers) away, but these locator beacons will begin to fade after just two more weeks.

U.S. Air Force Col. Willie Berges, commander of the American military forces supporting the search, said the black boxes emit beacons at a unique frequency, virtually guaranteeing that any signal detected would be from the pingers.

"The question becomes if the black box is with the pinger, because they can get separated," Berges said. "If a signal is located, the French would then send down a robotic vehicle that is in the area to look at it, confirm that it is the black box and bring it up."

Without the black boxes to help explain what went wrong, the investigation has focused on a flurry of automated messages sent by the plane minutes before it lost contact; one suggests external speed sensors had iced over, destabilizing the plane's control systems.

Without the black boxes to help explain what went wrong, the investigation has focused on a flurry of automated messages sent by the plane minutes before it lost contact; one suggests external speed sensors had iced over, destabilizing the plane's control systems.

Arslanian said most of the messages appear to be "linked to this loss of validity of speed information." He said when the speed information became "incoherent" it affected other systems on the plane that relied on that speed data. But he stressed that not all the automated messages were related to the speed sensors.

The automated messages were not alarm calls and no distress call was picked up from the plane, he said.

Air France has replaced the sensors, called Pitot tubes, on all its A330 and A340 aircraft, under pressure from pilots who feared a link to the accident.

Arslanian said a French doctor from the BEA was not allowed to participate in autopsies done so far on some Flight 447 bodies by Brazilian authorities, and those autopsy results have not been released to the BEA. He said he was "not happy" with this situation.

However, he added that French judicial authorities, who are conducting a parallel criminal probe, were present at the autopsies.

Brazil's Federal Police and state medical authorities in Recife who are overseeing the autopsies said in a statement that two French investigators, a dental expert and a doctor, had been following the examinations as observers since June 10.

The French are leading the crash investigation, while the Brazilians are leading the rescue operation.

Vandore reported from Le Bourget, France. Associated Press writers Greg Keller in Le Bourget and Bradley Brooks in Rio de Janeiro also contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

The only good news, if you can call it that, is:

"Getting ejected into that kind of windstream is like hitting a brick wall — even if they stay in their seats, it is a crushing effect," Casey said. "Most of them were long dead before they hit the water would be my guess."

[Sea Skimmer]

Deliberate act of sabotage?

Unlikely, if terrorists got a bomb onboard they would have likely blown up the plane sooner. Terrorist attacks that leave people head scratching as to a cause make no sense.

Plus as the article sort of points out, the names don’t mean much without supporting evidence to confirm they were in fact terrorist suspects. Islamic cultures tend to use only a small number of different names, so you have hoards of people with the exact same full names. This is why that ‘no fly list’ in the US has been a colossal waste of time and constantly generates stories of five year olds denied flights.

[FSTargetDrone]

Plus as the article sort of points out, the names don’t mean much without supporting evidence to confirm they were in fact terrorist suspects. Islamic cultures tend to use only a small number of different names, so you have hoards of people with the exact same full names. This is why that ‘no fly list’ in the US has been a colossal waste of time and constantly generates stories of five year olds denied flights.

Good call. The passengers in question have been cleared of any possible involvement to terrorist groups:

France jet cleared of links to Islamic terrorism

By Peter Allen

Created 12:00 PM on 10th June 2009

Two men aboard doomed Air France Flight 447 have been cleared of having links to Islamic terrorism, it has been revealed.

Posthumous security checks into the backgrounds of the men found that they solely ‘shared the same name’ as known Islamic radicals, even though their bodies have not yet been found.

The French secret service had treated the discovery as 'highly significant' yesterday as they continued the search for clues as to what caused the jet to crash into the ocean, killing all 228 on board.

A spokesman for France’s Interior Ministry said: ‘We launched an urgent enquiry into the men’s backgrounds as soon as they were pinpointed as having possible terrorist links.

‘This deep and wide-ranging investigation has allowed us to clear them.’

Despite the breakthrough, the fact that the men were not investigated before boarding the doomed flight on May 31st has exposed serious holes in airport security in Rio de Janeiro.

Since the 9/11 airborne suicide attacks on the U.S.A, names on known terrorism lists have triggered immediate checks.

But the French have confirmed that the two men, believed to be in their 20s and of North African or Middle Eastern origin, boarded Flight 447 unhindered.Both were in their 20s and of unspecified nationality.

France’s Defence Minister Hervé Morin has still not ruled out terrorism as the possible cause.

He has reiterated his claim that – unlike in the vast majority of attacks on aircraft – ‘there has been no claim of responsibility.’

Mr Morin had ordered the retrospective security checks into the two passengers on board after secret servicemen highlighted possible terror links.

Agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, established that the names corresponded with those of radical Muslims considered a threat to France.

France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan .

Security chiefs have been particularly worried about airborne attacks similar to the 9/11 atrocities. Agents established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the Airbus in Rio de Janeiro on May 31.

Flight AF447 crashed into the Atlantic on its way to Paris during a violent storm.

While it is certain there were computer malfunctions, and that these were the most likely reason for the accident, terrorism remains a possibility.

There were 32 nationalities on the Air France flight, including Moroccans and Lebanese.

The full list of passengers has not been released by Air France despite it being more than week since the plane crashed.

Such lists are normally released within 72 hours.

An Air France spokesman has said that 'all the indications' are that the Airbus suffered a catastrophic equipment failure.

Suspicions are focusing on the plane's airspeed sensors which were giving faulty readings, according to automatic data alerts sent by the plane in its final minutes in the air.

A French nuclear submarine reached the crash zone on Wednesday to join the search for the plane's black boxes, which may be the key to determining what brought the Airbus down.

The attack vessel Emeraude plans to trawl 13 square miles (35 square kilometres) a day, using sonar to try to pick up the boxes' acoustic beacons or 'pingers'.

The beacons will start to fade 30 days after the crash.

Forty-one bodies have been recovered from the zone 700 miles off Brazil's north-eastern coast.

Yesterday, the laptop and boarding pass of a British oil executive were found in the wreckage.

But Arthur Coakley's wife Patricia said she will not be flying out to Brazil, even if her husband's body is identified.

'I just want to remember him smiling and laughing,' she said. 'He was a wonderful man.

'We are just in limbo and still waiting for the phone call we will get from the authorities, but don't want.'