Cheater sues when school bans her from graduation ceremony

[Darth Wong]

I didn't "decide to forget", you smarmy little asshole. I have not seen any quotes where they said what you think they said. Two of your three quotes do not even vaguely imply what you think they said, and the third one is a one-liner which you have chosen to interpret in a particular way but which still does not justify your statement. You're full of shit.

[Havok]

I didn't "decide to forget", you smarmy little asshole. I have not seen any quotes where they said what you think they said. Two of your three quotes do not even vaguely imply what you think they said, and the third one is a one-liner which you have chosen to interpret in a particular way but which still does not justify your statement. You're full of shit.

Then why did Oni feel the need to clarify it didn't mean what I think it did? And as I said, if you don't like my interpretations of those quotes or the attitudes of the people saying them, tough shit.

[Edi]

One of the factors that make the little bitch's behavior so egregious is that the school actually went out of its way to ´go easy on her and offer her ways to atone. She was not offered to have to redo the whole course. She was offered an opportunity to resit the exam and she refused, opting for the lawsuit instead. Resitting an exam is a couple of hours, but no, not good enough for the brat.

Fuck her. With that attitude, she deserves everything she's getting until she demonstrates an improvement. Though if she's already that far gone, I'm not having very high expectations.

[Mayabird]

You know, I thought it was pretty obvious to anyone who was reading my post that I assume that this unrepentant brat is just going to cheat again in the future whenever she doesn't get what she wants (due to the massive sense of entitlement and worthless parents of hers) and universities do not look kindly upon cheaters.

Let me quote my whole post and not just the one liner.

So they only expelled the student who changed the grades but not all the cheating kids? Well, on the bright side of justice, should any of these brats show up at college with this notoriety they're picked up, they'll be watched like a hungry hawk watches a rodent. And that is why tenure was invented. Bwahaha.

Quote:
Reno said after yesterday's hearing that she plans to attend Indiana University Southeast next year and become an education counselor to make sure that what happened to her doesn't happen to other students.


Somehow I doubt this means she's learned her lesson. Come on, Indiana University, you know you want to kick her out on her ass while laughing maniacally.

My assumption is that she'll do it again, and Indiana University will be watching her closely, knowing that she will, and then they'll toss her out and she can wail and scream and whine all she wants but there will be no recourse for her. It would, in fact, be rather entertaining to see her crying while a tenured prof lays down the law.

My only regret here, since I apparently have to be super-clear about everything, is that every single cheating kid, not just the one who changed the grades but all of them who were in on it, weren't expelled from high school. It's not just about teaching them a lesson but letting all the other little high schoolers know that these things are not going to be tolerated and they can't get out of it by whining to mommy and daddy and if they do something bad they'll just get coddled and get away with it. And if they don't learn the lesson now, the consequences will only get worse when they get caught later in life.

[Darth Wong]

I didn't "decide to forget", you smarmy little asshole. I have not seen any quotes where they said what you think they said. Two of your three quotes do not even vaguely imply what you think they said, and the third one is a one-liner which you have chosen to interpret in a particular way but which still does not justify your statement. You're full of shit.

Then why did Oni feel the need to clarify it didn't mean what I think it did? And as I said, if you don't like my interpretations of those quotes or the attitudes of the people saying them, tough shit.

Wrong, fuckface. It's called "unrepentant strawman", and you're doing it. You have no evidence whatsoever that these people want her to suffer for the rest of her life for what you so ridiculously insist on referring to as "one mistake" when we already know that her problems run much deeper than that.

In fact, your entire line of reasoning is shot full of holes from the start, because you ignore the fact that she has indeed demonstrated already that she did not just make "one mistake". She has an attitude problem, as demonstrated in the OP, and which every poster in this thread would have been taking into account. Your insistence on "interpreting" their statements without that context is dishonest and stupid.

[Solauren]

All I can say to this situation is; Wow. What a deluded bitch.

Something was made very clear at my high school: Things like dances, field trips, extra-ciricular activities and Graduation itself, were all privilages. Privilages that could be revoked as part of disciplinary action.

Something like a field trip, the teacher in charge or anyone outranking them could strip, but something like a dance, it had to be the administration.

They offered this young female (as she is clearly no lady) a graceful way out. Retake the exam. She decided not to.

Well, screw her then.

She's extremely likely that

A)- She wasn't expelled and her year credits cancelled
B)- The schools she applied to were not informed of her actions. (They probably know because of the lawsuit)
C)- She's not being charged with any applicable criminal offenses.
D)- She hasn't been fined to cover the costs of any required investigation/clean up at the school.

Oh well. She'll learn the hard way what the real world is like, or end up as a trophy wife/doormat for someone who's a superior asshole.

[Darth Wong]

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

If no, then why are you attacking those who say she should suffer consequences other than those she has already suffered? If the decision was put in your hands, you would inflict more consequences upon her yourself.

If "no unless she does something fairly significant to redeem herself", then you seem to be agreeing with me.

If "yes", I would be curious how you would defend that decision to colleagues.

[Stuart]

Might I suggest that the key phrase in her comments is this.

Reno said after yesterday's hearing that she plans to attend Indiana University Southeast next year and become an education counselor to make sure that what happened to her doesn't happen to other students.

Note the bit highlighted in red. Now, what was the thing that happended to her? She got caught. In other words, her life's ambition is to aid other children to avoid getting caught. She has absolutely no idea that what she did was wrong and sees the whole incident as people persecuting her. There is no sign of any redemption or remorse there and without those, she's damaged goods.

Put very simply, she cannot be trusted near anything of importance. The onus is now on her to prove that she can be trusted and that's a hard row to hoe.

[Isolder74]

My point exactly, she is guilty of committing computer fraud. If I did this i would be prosecuted. She is also unrepentant about it as well. She does not deserve admittance to any school until she proves she isn't going to cheat again. So far she hasn't.

[Serafina]

Well, if you tried that kind of stuff in Germany, there would be a judge involved, too - you would get sued for forgery of documents, which is a serious crime with up to five years of prison (for changing your notes afterwards, not for cheating at the exam).

I had that happen to someone from my school - he got off with a fine and being expelled, but propably only because it was just a school exam, not a university one.

[Havok]

I didn't "decide to forget", you smarmy little asshole. I have not seen any quotes where they said what you think they said. Two of your three quotes do not even vaguely imply what you think they said, and the third one is a one-liner which you have chosen to interpret in a particular way but which still does not justify your statement. You're full of shit.

Then why did Oni feel the need to clarify it didn't mean what I think it did? And as I said, if you don't like my interpretations of those quotes or the attitudes of the people saying them, tough shit.

Wrong, fuckface. It's called "unrepentant strawman", and you're doing it. You have no evidence whatsoever that these people want her to suffer for the rest of her life for what you so ridiculously insist on referring to as "one mistake" when we already know that her problems run much deeper than that.

In fact, your entire line of reasoning is shot full of holes from the start, because you ignore the fact that she has indeed demonstrated already that she did not just make "one mistake". She has an attitude problem, as demonstrated in the OP, and which every poster in this thread would have been taking into account. Your insistence on "interpreting" their statements without that context is dishonest and stupid.

Fuckface. I haven't heard that in a while.

Bull shit. Having a bad attitude or feeling entitled is not something I am not taking into account. I am simply not going to make assumptions about her just because she is an asshole or did something I don't like. She cheated ONE time. She has a sense of entitlement. That is what we know. We also know that she is an 18 year old High School student, and they are highly prone to making dumbassed mistakes and huge errors in judgement. The people wanting her to be branded as a cheater (Maybird made that fairly clear now) should be taking that into account, as much as her sense of entitlement and her piss poor attitude, both of which we all attribute to bad parenting, which is out of her hands.

And sorry, but just because someone has an attitude problem does not make her an automatically untrustworthy person that is going to cheat at every opportunity she gets if she doesn't get her way.

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

First of all, I am not defending her. She is an idiot and made a huge mistake and needs to suffer the consequences. (A hell of a lot more than not being able to put on a stupid hat and gown and walk 50 feet.) I am merely saying that there is acceptable punishment and then there is excessive punishment for what she did.
My answer to the question, as you no doubt know, is that No, I would not hire her at this particular time.

If no, then why are you attacking those who say she should suffer consequences other than those she has already suffered? If the decision was put in your hands, you would inflict more consequences upon her yourself.

Again, acceptable consequences and excessive consequences. Has she endure acceptable consequences? Fuck no. She got off so light that it isn't even funny. IMO, she should have been made to retake her whole year, including the class she didn't want to retest for and still not be allowed to walk in the ceremony. She should also be required by the school to do summer classes as well as tutoring. There is a whole host of punishment that this girl can endure that isn't going to hang around her neck the rest of her life, but will certainly make her understand how wrong cheating is. And as I initially said, she is lucky she didn't get expelled, but I think that based on what we know, and who did get expelled, that might be a little excessive as that will certainly hamper any future academic plans she may have.

If "no unless she does something fairly significant to redeem herself", then you seem to be agreeing with me.

I have never NOT agreed with you about this. But if she is summarily barred from the next step of education, how is she to redeem herself? Colleges don't care if you have had a job for a year, or done community service, all they care about is what you did in high school, or at other colleges. The only way she can show that she is not "a cheater" which is clearly what she will be labeled, is to be in school and not cheat. No college= no chance to cheat/not cheat.

[Havok]

Might I suggest that the key phrase in her comments is this.

Reno said after yesterday's hearing that she plans to attend Indiana University Southeast next year and become an education counselor to make sure that what happened to her doesn't happen to other students.

Note the bit highlighted in red. Now, what was the thing that happended to her? She got caught. In other words, her life's ambition is to aid other children to avoid getting caught. She has absolutely no idea that what she did was wrong and sees the whole incident as people persecuting her. There is no sign of any redemption or remorse there and without those, she's damaged goods.

Put very simply, she cannot be trusted near anything of importance. The onus is now on her to prove that she can be trusted and that's a hard row to hoe.

Are you being fucking serious? You think this girl wants to go to college to make better cheaters?
Again, you are looking at the words of an 18 year old high school student. Not exactly eloquent speakers.
She knows what she did is wrong, she knows she made a mistake, she obviously wants to keep other kids from making the same mistake she did because to her 18 year old mind not being allowed to go to her graduation ceremony is obviously a HUGE punishment. What she fails to understand is that it is not a punishment at all really, and that comes back to her being a dumb kid and her parent instilled sense of entitlement.

[Havok]

My point exactly, she is guilty of committing computer fraud. If I did this i would be prosecuted. She is also unrepentant about it as well. She does not deserve admittance to any school until she proves she isn't going to cheat again. So far she hasn't.

You still haven't cited any evidence that what she did was a crime.

And how is she supposed to prove she isn't going to cheat, if she isn't admitted to any school?

[TheLostVikings]

Bull shit. Having a bad attitude or feeling entitled is not something I am not taking into account. I am simply not going to make assumptions about her just because she is an asshole or did something I don't like. She cheated ONE time. She has a sense of entitlement. That is what we know. We also know that she is an 18 year old High School student, and they are highly prone to making dumbassed mistakes and huge errors in judgement. The people wanting her to be branded as a cheater (Maybird made that fairly clear now) should be taking that into account, as much as her sense of entitlement and her piss poor attitude, both of which we all attribute to bad parenting, which is out of her hands.

Yeah she only cheated once. And when given the extremely lenient option of retaking the exam she only refused once. And even in a petulant fit of rage and self entitlement she only sued them once, but that is still THREE STRIKES!

Three, count them, three entirely separate occasions of her action like a fucking retard who chants me!me!me!me! while completely ignoring reality. Three occasions of acting like an asshole in that short amount of time is more than enough to pass judgment on her character, and continuing to try to pass off those three acts as "just one mistake" is poking a rather large hole in all your arguments.

[Havok]

Bull shit. Having a bad attitude or feeling entitled is not something I am not taking into account. I am simply not going to make assumptions about her just because she is an asshole or did something I don't like. She cheated ONE time. She has a sense of entitlement. That is what we know. We also know that she is an 18 year old High School student, and they are highly prone to making dumbassed mistakes and huge errors in judgement. The people wanting her to be branded as a cheater (Maybird made that fairly clear now) should be taking that into account, as much as her sense of entitlement and her piss poor attitude, both of which we all attribute to bad parenting, which is out of her hands.

Yeah she only cheated once. And when given the extremely lenient option of retaking the exam she only refused once. And even in a petulant fit of rage and self entitlement she only sued them once, but that is still THREE STRIKES!

Three, count them, three entirely separate occasions of her action like a fucking retard who chants me!me!me!me! while completely ignoring reality. Three occasions of acting like an asshole in that short amount of time is more than enough to pass judgment on her character, and continuing to try to pass off those three acts as "just one mistake" is poking a rather large hole in all your arguments.

Look idiot. She cheated once. Just because you don't like her attitude or the fact that her parents got her a lawyer to sue, does not change the fact that she only cheated once. And you can keep citing that test she didn't retake all you want, but she FAILED it the first time, hence why she agreed to let the kid who got expelled change the grade. She obviously knew that she would fail it again, that isn't being petulant, that is just not wasting people's times with an outcome she already knew.

[Darth Wong]

Bull shit. Having a bad attitude or feeling entitled is not something I am not taking into account.

You're a liar. You've been ranting about the evils of punishing someone for "one mistake" over and over and over. This is not just "one mistake" unless you ignore the attitude.

I am simply not going to make assumptions about her just because she is an asshole or did something I don't like. She cheated ONE time. She has a sense of entitlement. That is what we know.

And why isn't that enough to determine that she should LOSE some of those entitlements, like waltzing into university as if nothing happened?

We also know that she is an 18 year old High School student, and they are highly prone to making dumbassed mistakes and huge errors in judgement. The people wanting her to be branded as a cheater (Maybird made that fairly clear now) should be taking that into account, as much as her sense of entitlement and her piss poor attitude, both of which we all attribute to bad parenting, which is out of her hands.

What makes you think they're not taking that into account? The point is that she has not improved at all from the person who cheated on that test, and thus not demonstrated that she deserves to be admitted into university.

And sorry, but just because someone has an attitude problem does not make her an automatically untrustworthy person that is going to cheat at every opportunity she gets if she doesn't get her way.

It absolutely DOES make her untrustworthy. You would trust her?

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

First of all, I am not defending her. She is an idiot and made a huge mistake and needs to suffer the consequences. (A hell of a lot more than not being able to put on a stupid hat and gown and walk 50 feet.) I am merely saying that there is acceptable punishment and then there is excessive punishment for what she did.

My answer to the question, as you no doubt know, is that No, I would not hire her at this particular time.

I thought you said it was unreasonable to consider her untrustworthy. Why won't you hire her, you unsympathetic bastard?

Again, acceptable consequences and excessive consequences. Has she endure acceptable consequences? Fuck no. She got off so light that it isn't even funny. IMO, she should have been made to retake her whole year, including the class she didn't want to retest for and still not be allowed to walk in the ceremony. She should also be required by the school to do summer classes as well as tutoring. There is a whole host of punishment that this girl can endure that isn't going to hang around her neck the rest of her life, but will certainly make her understand how wrong cheating is. And as I initially said, she is lucky she didn't get expelled, but I think that based on what we know, and who did get expelled, that might be a little excessive as that will certainly hamper any future academic plans she may have.

Yes. The whole point is to hamper her future academic plans, thus making her work harder to overcome that, thus teaching her that you do NOT take your entitlements for granted. We all know that past a certain point, nobody really gives a shit about anything prior to your university degree anyway, so you know perfectly well that this is only a lifetime sentence if she allows it to become one.

If "no unless she does something fairly significant to redeem herself", then you seem to be agreeing with me.

I have never NOT agreed with you about this. But if she is summarily barred from the next step of education, how is she to redeem herself?

Go back to school. Do extracurricular activities. Volunteer in the community to show that she has learned her lesson. Are you really so unimaginative that you need me to walk you through the process of social redemption like this?

Colleges don't care if you have had a job for a year, or done community service, all they care about is what you did in high school, or at other colleges.

Bullshit. Universities absolutely DO care about volunteer activities and extracurricular activities when considering applicants. This would be doubly true for an applicant whose major impediment is ethical, ie- cheating. What the fuck kind of university did you go to, that didn't care about this?

The only way she can show that she is not "a cheater" which is clearly what she will be labeled, is to be in school and not cheat. No college= no chance to cheat/not cheat.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Remembers the whole controversy over a teen who murdered her mother at 14 being booted out on her ass after getting accepted to an Ivy League college as an adult. The whole yes, but I didn't have to include that because my juvenile record was sealed when I became an adult didn't fly with the school's ethics board. That and including the name of the prison's local school district as her school and street address and not stating that she had been in a juvenile facility for the last four years of her education, didn't help with the ethics people either. (basically she said amoung other things that she graduated valevictorian in the district she was in, despite the fact that the district she was in was her prison system, and didn't recognize that sort of scholastic achievement, listed her required community restituion as "outstanding volunteer service" ect., oh and asked for financial assistance because she had no parental support. (go fig you kill one of them, and the other wants nothing to do with you.)

[ArmorPierce]

some kids at my high school were able to get the password to the schools systems and changed all their grades to As. They weren't noticed howeveruntil they decided to change all the grades of the people that they didn't like to lower grades and they were only caught because they went around telling people about it and of course the way people are, people talked.

[Isolder74]

My point exactly, she is guilty of committing computer fraud. If I did this i would be prosecuted. She is also unrepentant about it as well. She does not deserve admittance to any school until she proves she isn't going to cheat again. So far she hasn't.

You still haven't cited any evidence that what she did was a crime.

And how is she supposed to prove she isn't going to cheat, if she isn't admitted to any school?

Other then in the article already that she participated in breaking and entering into the school's grading computer system? That is computer fraud. That is a crime.

The one who typed the password got expelled. Everyone else should have too, but they didn't. This girl got off easy and yet complains about her punishment.

Sorry buddy you lose.

[Axis Kast]

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

Of course not.

If no, then why are you attacking those who say she should suffer consequences other than those she has already suffered? If the decision was put in your hands, you would inflict more consequences upon her yourself.

Because potential rejection is her fair burden. It is, however, a passive one. Actively campaigning against her is simple sadism.

If "no unless she does something fairly significant to redeem herself", then you seem to be agreeing with me.

Your notion of acceptable penance is based first on the flimsy premise that the legal action represents the student's personal opinion rather than that of her parents. I have also pointed out that schools are, in some sense, a community, and might be expected to forgive, although not forget.

Finally, "losing" a year to retake courses is less an expression of character than a chase down an unnecessary path. Better to take the diploma and move on.

[Big Phil]

My point exactly, she is guilty of committing computer fraud. If I did this i would be prosecuted. She is also unrepentant about it as well. She does not deserve admittance to any school until she proves she isn't going to cheat again. So far she hasn't.

You still haven't cited any evidence that what she did was a crime.

And how is she supposed to prove she isn't going to cheat, if she isn't admitted to any school?

Other then in the article already that she participated in breaking and entering into the school's grading computer system? That is computer fraud. That is a crime.

The one who typed the password got expelled. Everyone else should have too, but they didn't. This girl got off easy and yet complains about her punishment.

Sorry buddy you lose.

I think he's asking you to cite the civil or criminal state/federal statute that was violated here, not lump it under the generic title of "computer fraud" and claim it is a crime.

[Darth Wong]

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

Of course not.

Why is it so different if a university rejects her?

If no, then why are you attacking those who say she should suffer consequences other than those she has already suffered? If the decision was put in your hands, you would inflict more consequences upon her yourself.

Because potential rejection is her fair burden. It is, however, a passive one. Actively campaigning against her is simple sadism.

Ah, a made-up moral distinction, of the sort typically invented by people who know what they consider to be right but are completely incapable of justifying it with any ethics code known to man.

For some reason, it would be "passive" to reject her, but it would be "active" to tell someone to reject her, and therefore the first is perfectly acceptable but the second is "sadism". Fascinating! Same outcome, same justification, but ... totally different! You will, of course, explain the underlying moral scheme you are referring to here, since I have never seen any of these rules in any moral scheme I've heard of.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Finally, "losing" a year to retake courses is less an expression of character than a chase down an unnecessary path. Better to take the diploma and move on.

How is it an "unnecessary path" to make her show that she is capable of being an honest student? You are essentially saying she should get off easy for this.

[Darth Wong]

Kast does not seem to think that ethics should have anything to do with university admission, otherwise he would agree that she must do something to demonstrate her ethics before being admitted. Instead, he seems to think that any attempt to put obstacles in her way is nothing more than "sadism". Apparently, only "sadists" think that university applicants should meet any kind of ethics standard.

[Havok]

Bull shit. Having a bad attitude or feeling entitled is not something I am not taking into account.

You're a liar. You've been ranting about the evils of punishing someone for "one mistake" over and over and over. This is not just "one mistake" unless you ignore the attitude.

I am simply not going to make assumptions about her just because she is an asshole or did something I don't like. She cheated ONE time. She has a sense of entitlement. That is what we know.

And why isn't that enough to determine that she should LOSE some of those entitlements, like waltzing into university as if nothing happened?

We also know that she is an 18 year old High School student, and they are highly prone to making dumbassed mistakes and huge errors in judgement. The people wanting her to be branded as a cheater (Maybird made that fairly clear now) should be taking that into account, as much as her sense of entitlement and her piss poor attitude, both of which we all attribute to bad parenting, which is out of her hands.

What makes you think they're not taking that into account? The point is that she has not improved at all from the person who cheated on that test, and thus not demonstrated that she deserves to be admitted into university.

And sorry, but just because someone has an attitude problem does not make her an automatically untrustworthy person that is going to cheat at every opportunity she gets if she doesn't get her way.

It absolutely DOES make her untrustworthy. You would trust her?

Question for the handful of people who have been defending her in this thread: if you ran a business and she applied for a job, would you hire her?

First of all, I am not defending her. She is an idiot and made a huge mistake and needs to suffer the consequences. (A hell of a lot more than not being able to put on a stupid hat and gown and walk 50 feet.) I am merely saying that there is acceptable punishment and then there is excessive punishment for what she did.

My answer to the question, as you no doubt know, is that No, I would not hire her at this particular time.

I thought you said it was unreasonable to consider her untrustworthy. Why won't you hire her, you unsympathetic bastard?

Again, acceptable consequences and excessive consequences. Has she endure acceptable consequences? Fuck no. She got off so light that it isn't even funny. IMO, she should have been made to retake her whole year, including the class she didn't want to retest for and still not be allowed to walk in the ceremony. She should also be required by the school to do summer classes as well as tutoring. There is a whole host of punishment that this girl can endure that isn't going to hang around her neck the rest of her life, but will certainly make her understand how wrong cheating is. And as I initially said, she is lucky she didn't get expelled, but I think that based on what we know, and who did get expelled, that might be a little excessive as that will certainly hamper any future academic plans she may have.

Yes. The whole point is to hamper her future academic plans, thus making her work harder to overcome that, thus teaching her that you do NOT take your entitlements for granted. We all know that past a certain point, nobody really gives a shit about anything prior to your university degree anyway, so you know perfectly well that this is only a lifetime sentence if she allows it to become one.

If "no unless she does something fairly significant to redeem herself", then you seem to be agreeing with me.

I have never NOT agreed with you about this. But if she is summarily barred from the next step of education, how is she to redeem herself?

Go back to school. Do extracurricular activities. Volunteer in the community to show that she has learned her lesson. Are you really so unimaginative that you need me to walk you through the process of social redemption like this?

Colleges don't care if you have had a job for a year, or done community service, all they care about is what you did in high school, or at other colleges.

Bullshit. Universities absolutely DO care about volunteer activities and extracurricular activities when considering applicants. This would be doubly true for an applicant whose major impediment is ethical, ie- cheating. What the fuck kind of university did you go to, that didn't care about this?

The only way she can show that she is not "a cheater" which is clearly what she will be labeled, is to be in school and not cheat. No college= no chance to cheat/not cheat.

Fair enough Mike. I see your points and concede.
I will say that sometimes in situations like these, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps because I know that so many other people do not.