Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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ALBANY — The Democrats’ tenuous control of the New York State Senate abruptly collapsed on Monday, throwing the Legislature into chaos with just two weeks remaining in its session.
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Two dissident Democrats, who had been secretly strategizing with Republicans for weeks, bucked their party’s leaders and joined with 30 Republican senators to form what they said would be a bipartisan power-sharing deal. But the arrangement effectively re-establishes Republican control.

The change upends the agenda in Albany, where Democrats had assumed power in the Senate in January after more than 40 years in the minority, and were pushing bills to give tenants more rights, strengthen abortion rights and legalize same-sex marriage this session. And it underscores the continuing tumult of New York politics, where there have been three governors in less than three years and four different Senate presidents since last summer.

Democratic leaders were caught off guard by the move to topple them, and became so flustered as it unfolded they attempted to turn off the lights in the Senate chamber to try to prevent Republicans from installing the new leaders. Asked by a reporter what was occurring, Senator Malcolm A. Smith, leader of the Senate Democrats who was huddled in the hall with his staff, responded, “I’m trying to find out right now.” A spokesman for Mr. Smith, who lost the title of majority leader and Senate president in the shakeup, issued a statement later saying that Democrats would challenge the vote, but it was not clear that they had grounds to do so.

Gov. David A. Paterson called the move “an outrage,” at a news conference Monday evening and said Albany had become a “dysfunctional wreck.” The governor also said “I will not allow this,” but then conceded that there was nothing he could do to stop it.

The toppling of Democratic control unfolded in swift and dramatic fashion shortly after 3 p.m. as senators gathered in the lofty oaken chamber for what seemed like small-bore legislative action on an uneventful afternoon. Then, Senator Tom Libous, a Binghamton Republican, offered a resolution to reorganize the Senate leadership, a parliamentary maneuver that captured the entire capitol’s attention. Within minutes, reporters, staff members and Assembly members rushed to the Senate, crowding the chamber floor.

Democrats tried to stall the move, storming from the chamber and turning out the lights, but the Republicans continued the session, as two Democrats, Pedro Espada of the Bronx and Hiram Monserrate of Queens, joined with them to elect new leaders. Quickly, Dean G. Skelos, a Long Island Republican reclaimed the title of Senate majority leader and Mr. Espada was made Senate president.

Both Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate said they will remain Democrats even as they work with Republicans to run the Senate. Both men have legal troubles. Highlighting the often elastic nature of ethical stands and alliances in Albany, Republicans who earlier this year were calling on Mr. Monserrate to resign after his indictment on felony charges that he stabbed his girlfriend with a broken glass are now welcoming him as part of their power-sharing coalition.

Asked about the reversal, Mr. Skelos said, “He’s an elected member, and the reforms are more important.”

Mr. Espada has been fined tens of thousands of dollars over several years for flouting state law by not disclosing political contributions. The state attorney general’s office is also investigating Soundview HealthCare Network, a nonprofit that Mr. Espada ran until recently.

The new leadership structure means that Mr. Espada would become governor if Gov. David Paterson were incapacitated.

Mr. Espada, who is the first Latino Senate president, called his ascension “a sobering moment.” He predicted other Democrats will decide to join the coalition, saying there is broad frustration with Mr. Smith’s leadership.

“Frustration was obviously building,” he said later, in an interview. “There was little prospect for change on a number of fronts. We experienced five months of the budget process and the absolute lack of transparency and the hypocrisy, and the rhetoric grew too much for me.” But money also played a part. Mr. Espada said he was angered that a top aide to Mr. Smith had threatened to hold up his legislative earmarks, known as member items.

Mr. Smith, at a news conference Monday night, argued that the Senate had adjourned when the Republicans took power and insisted that “the Senate majority is still in Democratic hands.”

“I’m not going to have this institution, which is a very proud institution, be demanded in a manner like this,” Mr. Smith said. But Mr. Smith’s support appeared shaky; at least half a dozen Democrats did not attend his news conference.

After installing their leaders, Republicans enacted a series of rules reforms, including six-year term limits for the president and majority leader, steps to equalize the budgets of the majority and minority parties and mandating that pork barrel projects would be distributed equally among members of both parties.

The changes were pushed by Tom Golisano, the Rochester billionaire who spent heavily in the 2008 Senate election to elect members he believed were committed to a more open Albany. But he felt betrayed that Senate Democrats didn’t act more boldly when they took over in January.

Mr. Skelos said his legislative priorities would include resolving whether Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg could retain control over the city school system, reforming property taxes and reissuing property tax rebate checks that had eliminated in budget negotiations earlier this year.

He said he had not discussed with Mr. Espada whether they would bring the same-sex marriage bill to a vote.

Mr. Skelos has said he opposes same-sex marriage, but Mr. Espada is one of the co-sponsors of the legislation.

Republicans almost kept control of the Senate after the November election by courting Mr. Espada and two other dissident Democrats, Carl Kruger of Brooklyn and Ruben Diaz Sr., of the Bronx. Neither man left the chamber with the other Democrats on Monday while Republicans took power.

Mr. Kruger was noncommittal when he was asked if he would consider joining Mr. Espada.

“It’s very early to talk about that right now,” he said.

Mr. Golisano, who played a central role in brokering the deal, recently announced that he was moving his legal residence to Florida out of anger about the budget deal crafted in April by Democratic leaders in Albany, which included an increase in taxes on high earners.

The shakeup most likely means that Republicans will take over the chairmanships of most of the Senate’s committees. Staff members, whose jobs often depend on which party is in power, were trying to assess of the switch last night.

Nicholas Confessore contributed reporting.
New York Times

This is certainly surprising, I heard no sign of this before I left Rochester for the summer. Anyone have any idea how likely this will stall marriage equality for the state? I know last time there was a Republican majority, the party leadership prevented any bill from moving forward in the senate.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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My sympathies to the groups who will likely suffer from this (gay marriage activists, perhaps?). And an unfortunate exception to the otherwise left-ward swing of America. Not to sound bitter, but I want to see the GOP decisively crushed across the board, again and again, until their party reforms itself into a viable political opposition which does not directly threaten American democracy, or breaks up and gives us a third party. So yes, this is a disappointment.

Also, welcome to SDN. :D This is damn good for a first post.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Marriage equality is dead now in NY, because those two men were opposed to it to begin with, and now they control the direction of the Senate in Albany, until at least 2011 in New York.

The only remaining hope for this year is now in New Jersey.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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God damn NY and Patterson, you fucked up big time, I mean honestly you toss away political capital, I hope you enjoy Cumo beating you in the primary in record numbers
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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The only reason NY appears Democratic nationally is the influence of the city. Remove NYC and you've got a fully Republican state.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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darkjedi521 wrote:The only reason NY appears Democratic nationally is the influence of the city. Remove NYC and you've got a fully Republican state.
This is a well known fact; the thing that I wonder about is how Republicans manage to control the state senate when the state population skews Democratic by like 30+ points. Is the state government structured to limit NYC's influence on state politics, since the city's needs are so different from the rest of the state, and the city government runs itself almost independently from Albany anyway? That would kind of make sense, and arguably it's better than the Illinois model, where Chicago completely dominates the rest of the state in spite of the fact that the character of the city doesn't remotely resemble the character of Illinois generally. Though it does suck for people in the city who have to abide by state laws passed by a wildly unrepresentative legislature.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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darkjedi521 wrote:The only reason NY appears Democratic nationally is the influence of the city. Remove NYC and you've got a fully Republican state.
Yes if we were to remove 8 million people who vote 60-70% (D) I think that would have a rather obvious impact. At the same time saying something like that is disingenuous as a whole given that even moderate Republican districts in NY have been electing Democrats for the last few years (e.g. NY-20).

The real interesting thing is, well twofold, first that both the guys who flipped are under investigation as in "could really wind up in jail" investigation. The second is that, and the article kinda skimmed over it, the Democratic leadership is claiming they gavelled the session to a close meaning any subsequent votes taken have no legal standing, its gonna be a fucking mess.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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This is nowhere near settled yet. Don't jump on the Republican crows of victory just yet.

Also from the NYT:
Republicans Seize Control of State Senate
By Jeremy W. Peters AND Danny Hakim
Rob Bennett for The New York Times; Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times Two state senators — Pedro Espada Jr. of the Bronx and Hiram Monserrate of Queens — moved to defect to the Republican side, which would end Democratic control of the chamber.

Updated, 6:20 p.m. | ALBANY – Republicans apparently seized control of the New York State Senate on Monday, in a stunning and sudden reversal of fortunes for the Democratic Party, which controlled the chamber for barely five months.

A raucous leadership fight erupted on the floor of the Senate around 3 p.m., with two Democrats, Pedro Espada Jr. of the Bronx and Hiram Monserrate of Queens, joining the 30 Senate Republicans in a motion that would displace Democrats as the party in control.

In a news conference in the early evening, Senator Malcolm A. Smith of Queens, leader of the Senate Democrats, insisted that the Republican-engineered vote was illegal and violated parliamentary procedure. He said the vote was illegal because it had already taken place after the meeting was already brought to an end.
Giovanni Rufino for The New York Times Senator Dean G. Skelos, a Long Island Republican, is expected to become the new majority leader.

It was a noisy and acrimonious scene on the floor of the Senate as Senator Thomas W. Libous, a Republican from Binghamton and the party’s deputy leader, shouted for a roll-call vote, while Democrats attempted to stall the vote by asking to adjourn the session.

All 30 Republicans stood with their hands raised, signaling a vote for a change in leadership. Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate joined them, each raising his hand. Republicans won the vote by a 32-to-30 margin. The Senate will now be governed under a new joint leadership structure, with Mr. Espada serving as the president pro tempore, and Senator Dean G. Skelos, of Long Island, as the new majority leader.

After the results of the vote were read aloud, the in-house television station that carries Senate proceedings live in the Capitol went dark. All that appeared on the screen was a still photo of the Senate chamber and the words “Please stand by.”

Senate Republicans quickly claimed that they were on the verge of controlling the chamber. “A new bipartisan, coalition is being established that is bringing real reform to the Senate right now,” Republicans said in a statement emailed to reporters at 3:20 p.m.

As the events were unfolding on the floor, Mr. Smith huddled in the hall just off the Senate chamber and consulted with his staff. When asked what was occurring, he responded, “I’m trying to find out right now.”

Mr. Smith held a news conference in the early evening, denouncing the Republican maneuver as “scurrilous” and insisting that the Democrats were still in charge. He insisted the vote was illegal because it had taken place after the session had already been adjourned.

“It’s sad that the Republicans would chose to disrupt the business of this house,” he said. “We have many crucial issue that are important to us that has to get done, some of which are expiring, and obviously for them it was all about politics and not about the 19.5 million people in the state of New York. And I would hope that the public is outraged. I hope that the public will call their senators, the Republican senators, and say, ‘How dare you?’”

Mr. Smith added: “Let’s just be very clear, very clear, that the Senate majority is still in Democratic hands and will be in Democratic hands. And we will finish our business and we will adjourn and go home at the appropriate time.”

Earlier, at 4:44 p.m., Mr. Smith’s office released a statement insisting that control of the Senate had not changed hands.

“This was an illegal and unlawful attempt to gain control of the Senate and reverse the will of the people who voted for a Democratic majority,” Austin Shafran, a spokesman for Mr. Smith, said. “Nothing has changed. Senator Malcolm A. Smith remains the duly elected temporary president and majority leader. The real Senate majority is anxious to get back to governing, and will take immediate steps to get us back to work.”

Also, Hank Sheinkopf, an adviser to Mr. Smith, denounced the senators behind the revolt. “This is obviously an attempt by a couple of people to get personal power at the expense of the taxpayers,” Mr. Sheinkopf said. “It disrupts the Senate at a critical period, when issues like mayoral control are yet undecided. And the taxpayers are going to remember these guys by first and last name next year.”

Until January, Republicans had controlled the State Senate for more than four decades. Democrats won a majority of Senate seats in the November elections, but only after three dissident senators who were being courted by Republicans, including Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate, agreed to elect Mr. Smith.

Why Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate suddenly defected on Monday afternoon was not immediately clear. Both men are under investigation by the authorities. The state attorney general’s office is investigating a health care agency, Soundview HealthCare Network, that Mr. Espada ran until recently. And Mr. Monserrate, who was indicted on felony assault charges in March stemming from an attack on his companion, would automatically be thrown out of office if convicted.

If Mr. Monserrate is convicted, the Senate would be evenly split between the parties, 31 to 31. But with the lieutenant governor’s office vacant until the 2010 elections, there would be no tie-breaking vote in the chamber unless one or more other senators changed sides.

The coup could also complicate prospects for Gov. David A. Paterson, who is fighting to build a record on which to run for re-election and who requires a functioning Senate in order do so.

One source of contention among Democrats recently has been Mr. Smith’s support for same-sex marriage. Senator Rubén Díaz Sr., a Democrat from the Bronx, has been outspoken in his insistence that legislation allowing gay couples to marry not be allowed to come to a vote. Some had speculated he might leave the Democratic Party if Mr. Smith were to allow a vote.

But Mr. Díaz did not join Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate in the leadership vote on Monday. It was not immediately clear whether the same-sex marriage legislation played any role in the leadership dispute.

One person backing the revolt to put Republicans back in charge was Tom Golisano, the Rochester businessman and founder of Responsible New York, a political action committee that gave thousands of dollars to Senate Democrats last year to help them take control of the Senate, but who has become increasingly critical of the party. Mr. Golisano recently announced that he was moving his legal residence to Florida out of anger about the budget deal crafted in April by Democratic leaders in Albany, which included an increase in taxes on high earners.

Mr. Golisano played a role in negotiating original deal under which Mr. Espada and Mr. Monserrate — along with Mr. Díaz and Senator Carl Kruger of Brooklyn — gave their support to Mr. Smith. Steve Pigeon, his aide de camp, has been a frequent presence in Albany in recent weeks, and said Monday that Mr. Golisano felt betrayed by Mr. Smith because the Democratic leader had not delivered the overhaul of Senate rules he had promised upon taking power.

“He feels very strongly that he backed Malcolm Smith, and Smith didn’t keep his word, and didn’t make the changes he said he would,” Mr. Pigeon. “What you will see now is power-sharing, real reform.”

The apparent change of power sent shock waves in political circles across the state. At City Hall, in Lower Manhattan, stunned members of the New York City Council walked into the press room to watch the news unfold on local television. “I’m floored,” said Vincent M. Ignizio, a Republican city councilman and former state assemblyman from Staten Island.

To balance its budget for the next year, the City Council needs Albany to approve two proposed sales tax increases. “This will turn the budget process on its head,” Mr. Ignizio said.

Michael Barbaro and Nicholas Confessore contributed reporting from New York City.
This will likely end up being a publicity stunt designed to hold up initiatives. This "coalition" won't last long.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Karrick »

Tom Golisano's part in this really irritates me. He's run for governor and lost three times; it's pretty clear New Yorkers don't want anything to do with him. He admits he doesn't want to pay New York State taxes and so he's leaving... but he's still meddling in state politics. I'll admit that the state government's been in need of some serious reform, but this isn't going to fix anything. Thanks in part to that bastard the state senate is going to be a useless mess for months, and I could see lots of costly litigation as fallout from this.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Marriage equality is dead now in NY, because those two men were opposed to it to begin with, and now they control the direction of the Senate in Albany, until at least 2011 in New York.

The only remaining hope for this year is now in New Jersey.
Actually, Espada was for marriage equality and Monserrate was considered undecided. To be honest, the chances of the marriage equality bill passing in the NY Senate was slim to none in the first place. With all the starting chips down, the only hope marriage equality advocates had of passing the bill was if they also got every single undecided vote. The switch in party dominance in the NY senate certain makes things more grim for the bill but considering its chances to begin with, I don't think that much was changed.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Honestly between both of the party switchers being under investigation by state and federal authorities (in Espera's case only), the Republican's quite literally using the lure of the annual pork-barrel bill to get the guys to switch and the incredibly shady way the two were trying to scam the system within the Democratic caucus lends me to believe this will only backfire for the Repubicans.

In the meantime the Secretary of the Senate and the Sargeant at Arms have locked the doors and aren't giving anyone the keys because they say they still work for the Democratic Majority Leader.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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You know, in the majority of countries in the world, this would result in riots, and in a fair number of those countries, gun battles in the streets of Albany. We do have some advantages to our political stability.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Pablo Sanchez wrote: This is a well known fact; the thing that I wonder about is how Republicans manage to control the state senate when the state population skews Democratic by like 30+ points. Is the state government structured to limit NYC's influence on state politics, since the city's needs are so different from the rest of the state, and the city government runs itself almost independently from Albany anyway?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: The New York State Senate controls its electoral map. Until very recently the Republican leaders of the State Senate would gerrymander the hell out of the state to always ensure that they'd control the Senate. It's a statement to how fucked up the Republican party on a national scale that even with this massive Gerrymanding they still lost their majority. But even then it was only just barely.


Also, this was a long time coming. Any idea that this is the eeeevil mean nasty republicans versus the Democrats is wrong. Back when the Dems won control of the State Senate there were actually three leadership caucuses at the same damn time. Some of these people actually refused to even speak to other elected members of their own damn party. The idea that the Democrats would be able to exert any control in a meaningful sense of the word was downright laughable from the getgo and just about everyone who follows New York politics knew it. Especially because one of the hallmarks of New York State politics is that the Republicans are corrupt, but stick together to make sure everyone gets a fair size of the corruption pie. The Democrats, by contrast, are just as corrupt but are much too busy stabbing each other in the back for the variety of their special interests to get all their ducks in a line and enjoy the fruits of their spoils. It's really quite hideously awful to watch, but at the same time quite amusing. I just wish I didn't have to live here to watch it happen.

Also, it really does go all the way to the top, even the very top. After Gov. Patterson fucked himself silly with his appointment of Kirsten Gillibrand as the replacement for Hillary a bunch of Senate hopefuls came out to challenge her in the next primary. After he ineffectually tried to get them to stop "for the sake of party unity" he had to call out the big guns and get Barack Obama to step in and say "Nobody should challenge her in the upcoming primary." Something which was met with shouts of "Hypocrite" by a variety of party grandees, and has (I think) put more people in the race than would have otherwise contested before.

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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Videos of the leadership takeover:




And the lights go out:


The sheer confusion is so delightfully palpable.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Sorry about the triple post. But this is brilliant. There's a moral to this story: Don't use your blackberry during a meeting.

NY Daily News wrote: Upstate billionaire Thomas Golisano said he began plotting to overthrow Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith after the Democrat spent a whole meeting in late April reading e-mails.

"Of course I was upset, I thought that was very rude," he said of the meeting in Smith's office.

"When I travel 250 miles to make a case on how to save the state a lot of money ... and the guy comes into his office and starts playing with his BlackBerry, I was miffed."

Golisano, who spent millions helping Democrats take control of the Senate for the first time since 1965, said Smith and party leaders reneged on a promise of reform and engaged in a secretive budget process that resulted in $8 billion in new taxes and fees.

After the meeting, Golisano, who founded the Independence Party, asked political operative Steve Pigeon to see if he could work a deal with Republicans.

...

Early last month, GOP Minority Leader Dean Skelos traveled to Rochester for weekend meetings with Golisano, Pigeon and Niagara County GOP Chairman Henry Wojtaszek.

Golisano was skeptical that Republicans, who ran the Senate for more than 40 years, would make reforms he wants, including an independent Senate budget office and term limits for leadership posts.

"He told him you had 40 years and didn't make a difference," Pigeon said of Golisano. "He said, give me a reason why it should be Frick over Frack."

Skelos made a compelling argument that the Republicans learned their lesson, and talks intensified over the next five weeks

...
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Broomstick »

Hmm... I guess when I tell my dad about Chicago-area politics he'll now have equally screwed-up stories to tell me seeing as he's living in New York State now.

This kind of shenanigans are hardly unprecedented in American politics, it's just that now it lands on YouTube instead of the back page of the newspapers.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by CmdrWilkens »

Straha wrote:Sorry about the triple post. But this is brilliant. There's a moral to this story: Don't use your blackberry during a meeting.
Being fair to the guy the person he was meeting with is a reclusive billionaire who has been financing hsi own quixotic quest for personal power in Albany for nigh on a decade now...and freaking left the state because he got pissy about them attempting to solve the 4th worst budget crisis in the nation (in terms of lost revenue). So yeah if some jackass who left rather than contribute asks for a meeting to tell me how to fix things then I'd probably fuck with him as well.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Thanas »

The left-hand person seems to be the power behind the throne judging from that video.
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Straha
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Straha »

CmdrWilkens wrote:
Straha wrote:Sorry about the triple post. But this is brilliant. There's a moral to this story: Don't use your blackberry during a meeting.
Being fair to the guy the person he was meeting with is a reclusive billionaire who has been financing hsi own quixotic quest for personal power in Albany for nigh on a decade now...and freaking left the state because he got pissy about them attempting to solve the 4th worst budget crisis in the nation (in terms of lost revenue). So yeah if some jackass who left rather than contribute asks for a meeting to tell me how to fix things then I'd probably fuck with him as well.
Except Golisano did contribute. His massive checkbook was the only damn reason the democrats got into power in the first place. The way they got access to the checkbook was by promising to enact good government reform, put limits on the power of Senate leaders and keep pork barrel spending to a minimum. Instead, facing a $18 billion deficit on last year's budget they decided to increase spending by over ten billion dollars and raised taxes on everything under the sun to try and cover it (including things they couldn't possibly hope to enforce.) After all this the government was shocked to find that it faced a new $3 Billion dollar deficit when all the dust settled from their new spending program. All while the Democratic governor is viewed with something bordering on intense hatred, and the state legislature is viewed (rightly) as incompetent. After screwing this up, and not passing any of the good government proposals they promised to pass, Golisano was meeting with Smith to see what they could do to set everything right and... he gets snubbed. And credit to republicans, when they took over they passed the good governance reforms first thing, and are now threatening to pass spending limits that the Governor 'supported'.

So, yeah, it's not a case of some smarmy quixotic jackass seeking power for power, it's a case of 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you!'
Thanas wrote:The left-hand person seems to be the power behind the throne judging from that video.
I think that might be the Senate Majority leader. I'm not completely sure though.
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Prannon
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Prannon »

Thanas wrote:The left-hand person seems to be the power behind the throne judging from that video.
More than likely he's the Senate parliamentarian, or the guy who knows all the rules and all the procedures to the letter. He advises the President/Chairman of the body - who usually isn't the highest ranking member of the body, unless the New York Senate is significantly different from the US Senate in its power structure - on how to proceed on certain measures. You'll notice that the president always takes a moment to listen to him before making a pronouncement. Since what's happened in New York is kind of a special occasion, more than likely he wasn't exactly sure what was going on and had to consult the Parliamentarian several times.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by Gerald Tarrant »

Prannon wrote:
Thanas wrote:The left-hand person seems to be the power behind the throne judging from that video.
More than likely he's the Senate parliamentarian, or the guy who knows all the rules and all the procedures to the letter. He advises the President/Chairman of the body - who usually isn't the highest ranking member of the body, unless the New York Senate is significantly different from the US Senate in its power structure - on how to proceed on certain measures. You'll notice that the president always takes a moment to listen to him before making a pronouncement. Since what's happened in New York is kind of a special occasion, more than likely he wasn't exactly sure what was going on and had to consult the Parliamentarian several times.
That makes sense to me. You'll note at about the 2 minute mark on the second video the Chair switches between consulting with him and consulting with other aides (or senators). I'm guessing that he actually realized pretty quickly who switched sides, the secretary did read the vote count at 32 aye 30 nay. He just wanted to stall for as long as possible to give them time to work on the two wayward Democratic Senators.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NY Democrats took advantage of the stall tactics to begin offering the two of them some variation of the prisoners dilemma. I.E. first one that returns to the fold gets legal aid from D funds, second one gets nothing, and is run against in the primaries and the general election.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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I'm not so sure that they came up with that plan immediately. It was pretty clear after the appeal vote that the chair and the Democratic leadership was in oh-shit mode. They were trying to come up with something they could do on the spot, and the "prisoner's dilemma" idea probably isn't something they could come up with that fast. Nor could they stall Sen. Libous for that long.

What they did do is this. They read the results of the vote, then abruptly called on a different Senator who motioned to adjourn the current meeting and the Chair gavelled the meeting to a close without a vote. Then all the Democrats get up and walk out. Democrats are going to say that Republicans and the two renegade Democrats were meeting illegally after that point and anything they passed means nothing, but there's a problem. First, does the motion to adjourn carry precedence over Sen. Libous' motion, and if it does, does it require a majority vote to go into effect? Do the rules give the chair a right to arbitrarily bring the meeting to a close if he feels the need?

The way the Democrats handled this smacks of breaking the rules of procedure, since I'm almost certain that any adjournment would require a majority vote and no vote was held at all. At this point, I think they're counting on the loyalty of the Sergeant-at-arms to keep the Republicans out of the chamber long enough for them to present an ultimatum to the defecting Senators, after which they can continue business as normal.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Prannon wrote:I'm not so sure that they came up with that plan immediately. It was pretty clear after the appeal vote that the chair and the Democratic leadership was in oh-shit mode. They were trying to come up with something they could do on the spot, and the "prisoner's dilemma" idea probably isn't something they could come up with that fast. Nor could they stall Sen. Libous for that long.
You're right. But it's not so much that they didn't have the plan, it's that they couldn't put the "Lets go sway them back to our side with promises of massive pork projects" plan into effect until after the vote was resolved and the senate had adjourned. To be fair though, one of the reasons why those two senators jumped ship was because they'd been screwed over in the past by the other democrats. And the promise of money is absolutely meaningless to them because, in order to get them to switch sides, Golisano basically promised them a blank checkbook for their re-election campaign.
What they did do is this. They read the results of the vote, then abruptly called on a different Senator who motioned to adjourn the current meeting and the Chair gavelled the meeting to a close without a vote. Then all the Democrats get up and walk out. Democrats are going to say that Republicans and the two renegade Democrats were meeting illegally after that point and anything they passed means nothing, but there's a problem. First, does the motion to adjourn carry precedence over Sen. Libous' motion, and if it does, does it require a majority vote to go into effect? Do the rules give the chair a right to arbitrarily bring the meeting to a close if he feels the need?
I believe the adjournment does not take precedence and any adjournment would have to be voted on if there was a call for voting on it (which, as we can all see, there was.) The Democrats were trying to give themselves a legal route of appeal but there are three problems. First, they broke the senate rules, not the republicans. Second, the republicans actually ousted the chair before the vote was announced. If you want to settle into the games of legal semantics it's quite easy to say that anything the chair did after that would have absolutely no binding authority as he was now an ex-chair. Third, no court in the country is going to want to touch this case, much less overrule what is, no matter how you cut it, the majority of a popularly elected legislative body voting on an internal leadership change.
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Prannon
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

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Straha wrote:You're right. But it's not so much that they didn't have the plan, it's that they couldn't put the "Lets go sway them back to our side with promises of massive pork projects" plan into effect until after the vote was resolved and the senate had adjourned. To be fair though, one of the reasons why those two senators jumped ship was because they'd been screwed over in the past by the other democrats. And the promise of money is absolutely meaningless to them because, in order to get them to switch sides, Golisano basically promised them a blank checkbook for their re-election campaign.
Then again, both senators in question are under investigation for various, serious crimes. The senate democrats have that leverage against them, and they have the governor on their side. They may not get a chance to be reelected if the dirt sticks to them and the powers-that-be really campaign against them.
Straha wrote:I believe the adjournment does not take precedence and any adjournment would have to be voted on if there was a call for voting on it (which, as we can all see, there was.) The Democrats were trying to give themselves a legal route of appeal but there are three problems. First, they broke the senate rules, not the republicans. Second, the republicans actually ousted the chair before the vote was announced. If you want to settle into the games of legal semantics it's quite easy to say that anything the chair did after that would have absolutely no binding authority as he was now an ex-chair. Third, no court in the country is going to want to touch this case, much less overrule what is, no matter how you cut it, the majority of a popularly elected legislative body voting on an internal leadership change.
Specifically, the rules that the Democrats broke most eggregiously were thus: they allowed an inferior motion to take precedence over a superior motion (adjournment over leadership question), and they acted on the inferior motion without a vote when a role call vote was called for. I'm not exactly sure on the first one, but I'm positive on the second one. Furthermore, even after the Democrats all walked out, there was likely still a quorum since more than half of the chamber remained. And then there's what you said. The Republicans did have a procedure that allowed them to oust the chair and install someone else in the event that the chair does not fulfill his responsibilities. Since they broke the rules, that motion would probably be in order, and the Republicans would have the majority to carry it through. The Democrats don't have much legal standing to appeal, especially since people can watch this sort of thing on youtube. The only thing they can do is stall, hope that the Sergeant-at-Arms won't let them into the chamber, and somehow eliminate the two renegades.
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Re: Republicans in Control of New York State Senate

Post by ArmorPierce »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
darkjedi521 wrote:The only reason NY appears Democratic nationally is the influence of the city. Remove NYC and you've got a fully Republican state.
This is a well known fact; the thing that I wonder about is how Republicans manage to control the state senate when the state population skews Democratic by like 30+ points. Is the state government structured to limit NYC's influence on state politics, since the city's needs are so different from the rest of the state, and the city government runs itself almost independently from Albany anyway? That would kind of make sense, and arguably it's better than the Illinois model, where Chicago completely dominates the rest of the state in spite of the fact that the character of the city doesn't remotely resemble the character of Illinois generally. Though it does suck for people in the city who have to abide by state laws passed by a wildly unrepresentative legislature.
I believe that there was some fiasco with state taxes and NYC wasn't getting its fair cut which led to a lawsuit years ago.
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