[Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

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[Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Surlethe »

WSJ nonsense
Congressional Democrats will soon put forward their legislative proposals for reforming health care. Should they succeed, tens of millions of Americans will potentially be joining a new public insurance program and the federal government will increasingly be involved in treatment decisions.

Not long ago, I would have applauded this type of government expansion. Born and raised in Canada, I once believed that government health care is compassionate and equitable. It is neither.

My views changed in medical school. Yes, everyone in Canada is covered by a "single payer" -- the government. But Canadians wait for practically any procedure or diagnostic test or specialist consultation in the public system.

The problems were brought home when a relative had difficulty walking. He was in chronic pain. His doctor suggested a referral to a neurologist; an MRI would need to be done, then possibly a referral to another specialist. The wait would have stretched to roughly a year. If surgery was needed, the wait would be months more. Not wanting to stay confined to his house, he had the surgery done in the U.S., at the Mayo Clinic, and paid for it himself.

Such stories are common. For example, Sylvia de Vries, an Ontario woman, had a 40-pound fluid-filled tumor removed from her abdomen by an American surgeon in 2006. Her Michigan doctor estimated that she was within weeks of dying, but she was still on a wait list for a Canadian specialist.

Indeed, Canada's provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine. Between 2006 and 2008, Ontario sent more than 160 patients to New York and Michigan for emergency neurosurgery -- described by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain."

Only half of ER patients are treated in a timely manner by national and international standards, according to a government study. The physician shortage is so severe that some towns hold lotteries, with the winners gaining access to the local doc.

Overall, according to a study published in Lancet Oncology last year, five-year cancer survival rates are higher in the U.S. than those in Canada. Based on data from the Joint Canada/U.S. Survey of Health (done by Statistics Canada and the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics), Americans have greater access to preventive screening tests and have higher treatment rates for chronic illnesses. No wonder: To limit the growth in health spending, governments restrict the supply of health care by rationing it through waiting. The same survey data show, as June and Paul O'Neill note in a paper published in 2007 in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy, that the poor under socialized medicine seem to be less healthy relative to the nonpoor than their American counterparts.

Ironically, as the U.S. is on the verge of rushing toward government health care, Canada is reforming its system in the opposite direction. In 2005, Canada's supreme court struck down key laws in Quebec that established a government monopoly of health services. Claude Castonguay, who headed the Quebec government commission that recommended the creation of its public health-care system in the 1960s, also has second thoughts. Last year, after completing another review, he declared the system in "crisis" and suggested a massive expansion of private services -- even advocating that public hospitals rent facilities to physicians in off-hours.

And the medical establishment? Dr. Brian Day, an orthopedic surgeon, grew increasingly frustrated by government cutbacks that reduced his access to an operating room and increased the number of patients on his hospital waiting list. He built a private hospital in Vancouver in the 1990s. Last year, he completed a term as the president of the Canadian Medical Association and was succeeded by a Quebec radiologist who owns several private clinics.

In Canada, private-sector health care is growing. Dr. Day estimates that 50,000 people are seen at private clinics every year in British Columbia. According to the New York Times, a private clinic opens at a rate of about one a week across the country. Public-private partnerships, once a taboo topic, are embraced by provincial governments.

In the United Kingdom, where socialized medicine was established after World War II through the National Health Service, the present Labour government has introduced a choice in surgeries by allowing patients to choose among facilities, often including private ones. Even in Sweden, the government has turned over services to the private sector.

Americans need to ask a basic question: Why are they rushing into a system of government-dominated health care when the very countries that have experienced it for so long are backing away?

Dr. Gratzer, a physician, is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
This has everything, folks: copious use of anecdotes in place of statistics, misleading characterizations, and even textbook lying with statistics (when he cited the Lancet study, he didn't mention that France has the best cancer outcomes in the world for some sorts of cancer). Enjoy the target practice.

One of the lines that really got me was the attempt to show that the Canadian system "relies" on the US system because it shipped 160 patients to New York over three years. How in the world is that evidence of anything remotely approaching reliance, for a system that must have seen and treated millions of people in that same period of time?

And how does "Canada reforming the system in the direction of privatisation" (even assuming that his characterization of the situation is correct) equate to "Canada is abandoning government-run health care entirely and getting the state out of the business entirely"? Post-reforms, I'll bet a dollar to a penny that Canada's system still has more government involvement than the US system.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

To be fair, WHO statistics do indicate that the US system produces better outcomes for cancer than a lot of places with socialised medicine, I guess because of the screening and tests the article mentioned.

The rest of it is bullshit, though; I can't remember the stats for Canada in comparison to the US and don't have the time to look them up right now, but I do remember that, as compared to the UK, the US has higher mortality rates for non-infectious diseases excluding cancer, higher mortality rates for injuries, fewer doctors per person, fewer nurses per person (although more dentists per person- wheeee, confirmed stereotypes! :p) and twice as many bureaucrats for each frontline healthcare worker. Moreover, the UK has a higher life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by PainRack »

Because the Canadian system is
1. Has lower capacity.
2. Has a huge rural and smaller infrastructure than advanced American cities, the dichotomy of space and geography
3. Is actually offering more choices to the public consumer and allowing them to top up their medical care with private initatives, oh wait..... darn communists aren't supposed to be doing that. Me bad!
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Dr. Gratzer, a physician, is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
Ugh, not Gratzer again. He's the dishonest Canadian psychiatrist cited by Giuliani for that ridiculously low British survival rate for prostrate cancer back in the 2008 primaries - the one that took a report, lied about it representing the British survival rate for prostrate cancer, then, after admitting to the Factcheck.org people that it didn't represent a survival state, backtracked and claimed it was valid in spite of the authors of the report he was citing saying he was full of shit (it's all in the link I've linked to in this paragraph) and had misrepresented their conclusions.

I would second-check any type of statistic or report that he cites, given that type of history.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Darth Wong »

Part of the problem is that people are reluctant to believe that prominent writers and newspapers would print outright falsehoods in the name of ideology, even though they've done it many times before.

Look at the bit about holding lotteries in small towns. I've never heard of such a thing, and I lived in a small town for four years. Either they're completely making it up or they're grossly exaggerating a particular doctor's behaviour. In other words, they probably found some small town which only has one doctor, and he can't take on every person in the town so he decides to hold a mini-lottery. Then these assholes pretend this is government policy and a failing of the Canadian system, as if the American system somehow guarantees that no small town would ever go without a healthy supply of doctors.

Or how about "a government study" which he fails to name, thus making it difficult for others to verify his claim about how patients get lousy treatment? Or the vague way in which he describes the results of these studies? That's a dead giveaway that he's massaging the data. I would bet money, for example, that he's only comparing well-insured Americans to Canadians, and simply dropping uninsured or underinsured people off the comparison completely.

Or the bit about how the Canadian system occasionally sends someone south for treatment if their own facilities are overbooked. How is this a failing of the Canadian system again? These people got free medical care in a foreign country! Do Americans get that?

The only way to guarantee that there is never a supply shortfall in terms of any industry is to have a chronic oversupply, which is what the US system does have in certain areas, such as diagnostic imaging (why do you think they always harp about MRIs? America has a glut of MRI machines). But chronic oversupply leads to high costs, and the US has (surprise!) by far the most expensive health care system in the world.

Notice how NONE of these articles ever mention the huge cost disparity between the US system and the Canadian system. If the Canadian system were funded at the US system level, they would never need to send someone south, but why should they do this? It would just waste a huge amount of money. Sending patients to other facilities on occasion is a far more sensible way to handle things. For that matter, it's the way any sensible business handles things: they outsource if they have a demand surge.

Look at the electrical grid; electricity flows across the border in both directions all the time, depending on who has a surplus and who has a deficit at any given time. No one seizes upon incidents where nuke-heavy Ontario had to import power from coal-dependent New York and screams "Aha! Nuclear power sucks! Coal-fired power forever!"

And finally, the private clinics are NOT a move to an American-style system. Canada has ALWAYS treated doctors as private operators paid by a single-payer public insurance system. It is an outright LIE to say that private clinics in Canada represent a shift toward an American-style system. Nothing has changed; doctors are simply pooling together to form clinics instead of maintaining independent private practices. All of them are private contractors who are still paid by the government, so all of them still represent socialized health care. I've used private clinics, and you still walk in and get government-funded care by showing your health card. They don't ask you for money. This is a fine example of the way these people simply LIE in order to make their arguments.

Also look at the way they cited a Quebec Supreme Court ruling about health care as a way of justifying a private health care system. The Supreme Court ruling actually cited the fact that health care is considered a right in Canada: something the writers of this argument absolutely reject in America because it leads directly to the necessity of creating a public health care system. Classic example of the stolen concept fallacy.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Psychic_Sandwich wrote:To be fair, WHO statistics do indicate that the US system produces better outcomes for cancer than a lot of places with socialised medicine, I guess because of the screening and tests the article mentioned.
Does that include people who die of cancer without it being diagnosed because they had no health insurance and hence were never screened or tested? I'm betting a lot of Americans die like that, and it would probably fuck up our numbers, just like it always does. American health care statistics are always skewed by the fact that the poor don't get treatment, and since they never show up on the grid in the first place they don't get factored into statistics properly.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by General Zod »

I'm getting sick of all these articles trying to refute socialized health care by saying "But, but, waiting lists. . .!!!!!1!" that never bother to mention these people who went ahead and paid for their treatment to get it done more quickly would have never gotten anything at all in the US if they couldn't afford to pay for it themselves.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

Probably not, although I can't remember off the top of my head. If SB wasn't down at the moment, I'd use the link I posted in one of the semi-recent healthcare threads over there to find the stats again and find out.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Darth Wong »

I would very much like to see how these studies account for people who have no health care coverage. I sincerely doubt that they are factored into their figures in any way.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by aerius »

The people without coverage shouldn't be counted anyway, because they're all ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Rush said so and he does not lie.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Rahvin »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Psychic_Sandwich wrote:To be fair, WHO statistics do indicate that the US system produces better outcomes for cancer than a lot of places with socialised medicine, I guess because of the screening and tests the article mentioned.
Does that include people who die of cancer without it being diagnosed because they had no health insurance and hence were never screened or tested? I'm betting a lot of Americans die like that, and it would probably fuck up our numbers, just like it always does. American health care statistics are always skewed by the fact that the poor don't get treatment, and since they never show up on the grid in the first place they don't get factored into statistics properly.
That's why you need to look at the basic WHO mortality rate as well, not just the "deaths from cancer" statistic.

The US adult mortality rate is higher than those of Canada and the UK.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Darth Wong »

Honestly, you can respond to pretty much all of these "studies" by simply saying this:

What a shock: if you spend twice as much per capita and only service three quarters of the population, those people will get better service! Amazing! Look at how efficient the free market is!
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

It's quite crazy how disingenuous the comparisons between Obama's health care proposals and the Canadian health care system are. Not only are the arguments far too reliant on anecdotes but the comparisons do not even appear valid. Obama's health care proposals doesn't suggest a fully socialized health care system like Canada's. But rather, he's suggesting to create an optional governmental plan, which would compete against existing private insurers.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by FireNexus »

Oh but Mike, that 40 million number is only those unserviced at this moment. Most of those will have health care within a few months!! Unless they get cancer. Or hit by a bus, or get into a car accident. Or get the sniffles, or any of the million other things that could easily happen and will statistically happen to at least a few of them before they get cancer again.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Justforfun000 »

This person is completely full of shit! You're "Waiting list" depends on the severity of your problem, not a place-in-line philosophy. If you're truly diagnosed as an emergency, you're pushed to the front and you see specialists and get surigical appt's booked very quickly. If it's something like I went for as an example...I was experiencing symptoms of GERD..as a singer it's extrmely common...I had an ultrasound of the abdomen scheduled. Yeah it was set for about a 6 month wait, but I didn't have severe symptoms and it was more my insistence to be "sure" that I had it done. Well it did show that I have the beginning of Barrett's Esophagus, so it's a good thing I had it done. Now they will keep a close eye regularly to be sure no cancer develops as there is as a slight risk as years go by.

People with Barrett’s esophagus have a low risk of developing a kind of cancer called esophageal adenocarcinoma. Less than 1 percent of people with Barrett’s esophagus develop esophageal adenocarcinoma each year. Barrett’s esophagus may be present for several years before cancer develops.

So my point here was also that the ultrasound appt. was checked off with "normal" urgency. If they had felt it warranted, they could have made it a higher priority and I would have been much faster.

This asshole above is blatantly bullshitting about a great many things. When I had other tests including MRI's done to my head years ago when I had unspecified vertigo, I didn't have to wait long at all! Same with echocardiogram, and a few other things.

I realize I sound like either a hypochondriac or a health wreck. lol. I'm maybe guilty of the first a little. I try to be very astute and aware of my bodily health and don't mind diagnostic procedures at all. I like the idea of ruling out any problems and being able to go home with a "Phew". No worries about anything taking me out in the near future from within. But at 39, my young get-out-of-trouble pass is starting to fade....forties on you have to be more careful how you treat your body. :mrgreen:
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

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Hell, even the "waiting list if you're not critical" sounds better in some ways than the US system. At least you don't have to think, "Damn, my back is still hurting - but if I go in, and in turns out to be nothing, I'll have to pay $500 out-of-pocket because of my deductible, and I can't really spare that cash."

To be fair, one of the concerns raised about Medicare is that doctors here in the US cut patients if the rate schedule drops too low, because they can always go over to the privately-insured customers. I'm guessing that's one of the ideas behind the public plan - it would have such market power that private insurers would be forced to drive down their compensation rates as well, which would lower overall costs.

One other thing - has anyone in power in the US who isn't a single-payer advocate proposed merging Medicare with the prospective public plan? That would be a good way to ensure that the new public plan doesn't get gutted when a Republican Congress and Administration come back into power- everyone is rather reluctant to fuck with grandma and grandpa's health care plan, particularly when they vote en masse. Merging Medicaid and SCHIP would be a good idea as well (it brings everything under one roof), but it would be a lot more difficult, since those are federal-state mixed programs.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

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Guardsman Bass wrote:Hell, even the "waiting list if you're not critical" sounds better in some ways than the US system. At least you don't have to think, "Damn, my back is still hurting - but if I go in, and in turns out to be nothing, I'll have to pay $500 out-of-pocket because of my deductible, and I can't really spare that cash."
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Azazal »

Side rant as some one that has worked in and been a patient/family of a a patient in a few US hospitals - CAN WE PLEASE GET UNIVERSAL GOVERNMENT PAID COVERAGE ASAP!

/rambling vent mode

It has irked me to no end the number of times the ER has been clogged by people who are too poor to afford insurance and regular medical care. Since they can't afford simple preventive health care, their only options are to wait it out and hope their immune system wins, or go to the ER when on death's door. In most cases if they could have seen Doctor, PA, or Nurse Practitioner, their simple ailment could have been addressed and taken care of for the pittance cost of antibiotics. But no, since they can't afford it, they have to use the ER and their primary care facility, and in those cases their ailment have gone past critical mass, causing the over cost to sky rocket. They know they can not be turned away from the ER, and sadly since they can't pay their bill the hospital winds up eating the cost in the long run. (yes the hospital could sue them but how to get money from some one with nothing, and with all the cuts to medicaid and medicare, government reimbursement is a joke thanks to skippy the wonder chimp) Other side effect, the poor use the ER for general health issues that are better served by a general clinic or primary care giver; runny nose, minor scratch, sore ear, etc.. clogging and already taxed system to the brink. As such anyone in the ER for a true emergency short of a heart attack or massive trauma is stuck in line waiting for care while the over worked staff tries to triage the cases. How is that any better then then Canada's system again?
Personally I feel we need to get the baby-boomer out of power, they grew-up under the mushroom cloud of the cold war where anything that hinted at communism was evil. The fear and paranoia of the 50 and 60 was burned into their collective psyche to the point that when they hear the words socialized medicine, in their minds socialism = communism = END OF AMERICA!!! And sadly even getting my "gen X" 40 and 30 somethings into office is no cure, we still had lingering strands of the evil commies in out childhood, so we might have to wait until the current 20 something come into power before we get any for of socialized medical care going.

Anecdotal, but as for the Canadian's coming to the US, more often then not they are well to do folks with little patients. My mother is the COO of a medical imaging company that operates in SE Michigan, the get quite a few Canadians that want an MRI, Cat Scan, ect.. right now. In almost every case it was some one from the upper end of the socioeconomic ladder that had the cash on hand and did not want to wait in Canada, and in just about every case the results negative and not the "oh we found out you would have died if you had stayed home" case in the OP article.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:It's quite crazy how disingenuous the comparisons between Obama's health care proposals and the Canadian health care system are. Not only are the arguments far too reliant on anecdotes but the comparisons do not even appear valid. Obama's health care proposals doesn't suggest a fully socialized health care system like Canada's. But rather, he's suggesting to create an optional governmental plan, which would compete against existing private insurers.
Yeah. From the direction of the policy debate it looks like America won't have Canadacare but rather is heading towards a French-style health care system, in which insurance is obligatory, employers and the wealthy cover the costs, and the government has a strong regulatory hand to keep costs low. The good news is that everybody can afford the care they need, the quality is apparently very high (the best by some measures), and people still get to choose their health plans, hospitals, and doctors. The bad news is that it's more expensive as a percentage of GDP than the systems used in Commonwealth countries, though of course it's still less than what the US is wasting now.
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Alan Bolte »

Based on data from the Joint Canada/U.S. Survey of Health (done by Statistics Canada and the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics), Americans have greater access to preventive screening tests and have higher treatment rates for chronic illnesses. No wonder: To limit the growth in health spending, governments restrict the supply of health care by rationing it through waiting. The same survey data show, as June and Paul O'Neill note in a paper published in 2007 in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy, that the poor under socialized medicine seem to be less healthy relative to the nonpoor than their American counterparts.
If you're interested in the paper, it can be found here if you just give them an e-mail address and the name of a library. Oddly, WSJ mis-cited the name of one of the authors. They are associated with conservative think-tank the American Enterprise Institute.
the poor under socialized medicine seem to be less healthy relative to the nonpoor than their American counterparts.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this statement. The Canadian poor are less healthy, but have access to all sorts of treatment, while the American poor are more healthy, but mostly have access only to emergency treatment? I haven't studied the paper closely, but it seems to rely pretty heavily on the JCUSH telephone survey, in which "85 percent of Americans and 88 percent of Canadians reported that they were in good, very good or excellent health," and "among low-income respondents, 31 percent of Americans said they were in fair or poor health, compared with 23 percent of low income Canadians."
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Darth Wong »

Bullshit studies like that are used to counteract devastating overall figures, like the fact that you're 50% more likely to die in America by the time you're 40, as compared to Canada.
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"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Pint0 Xtreme
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

And speaking of which, the Democrats have just unveiled their healthcare bills.
UPDATE 1-US Senate Democrats unveil healthcare bill

By Donna Smith

WASHINGTON, June 9 (Reuters) - Leading Senate Democrats unveiled on Tuesday a plan to revamp U.S. healthcare that calls for sweeping insurance market reforms and prohibits insurers from denying coverage due to pre-existing medical conditions.

The bill from Democrats on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee is one of at least three major healthcare proposals brewing in Congress, which Democrats hope will lead to landmark legislation that can be sent to President Barack Obama to sign into law by October.

"Our goal is to strengthen what works and fix what doesn't," Massachusetts Sen. Edward Kennedy, chairman of the committee, said in a statement that accompanied the bill's public unveiling.

"Over the next few days, we will continue working with our Republican colleagues on common sense solutions that reduce skyrocketing healthcare costs, assure quality care for all and provide affordable health insurance choices," Kennedy said.

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives and a second group of U.S. senators led by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus are developing similar proposals. Baucus has been working with Kennedy's panel and is expected to unveil his version of the bill in the coming days.

The Kennedy panel will hold a public drafting session on the bill next week, an aide said.

"Much work remains, and the coming days and weeks won't be easy. But we have a unique opportunity to give the American people, at long last, the healthcare they need and deserve," Kennedy said.

Obama has called on Congress to pass legislation this year to overhaul the $2.5 trillion healthcare system, aiming to cut costs and ensure that millions of Americans now without health insurance get coverage. The government said 46 million Americans went without any health insurance in 2007.

Healthcare costs burden many U.S. businesses and families and eat away at federal and state budgets.

Many congressional Republicans have criticized Democratic proposals for a new government-run insurance program that would compete with private insurers. People 65 and older, the disabled and the poor already are eligible for the public Medicare and Medicaid insurance plans.

INSURANCE CLEARINGHOUSE

The House and Senate bills would establish an exchange, a kind of clearinghouse, in which individuals and small businesses could shop for insurance. Democratic lawmakers want the new public insurance program to be an option offered in the exchange.

Democrats say a public plan that would compete with private insurers is the only way to ensure cost containment and low premiums. Republicans and insurers argue that would drive insurance companies out of business and lead to a government-run U.S. healthcare system.

Both the House and Senate versions of the bill are expected to include a requirement for individuals and businesses to obtain insurance, but a Senate aide said some details of the requirement still need to be worked out in the Senate bill.

In a sign of the high priority given the healthcare legislation, the Senate Democratic leadership has moved back consideration of reform of financial services regulations in order to concentrate on healthcare, a Senate Banking Committee aide said. (Writing by John Whitesides; editing by Will Dunham)
Emphasis mine.
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Dave
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Dave »

Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit studies like that are used to counteract devastating overall figures, like the fact that you're 50% more likely to die in America by the time you're 40, as compared to Canada.
What study is that from?
Samuel
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by Samuel »

Dave wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit studies like that are used to counteract devastating overall figures, like the fact that you're 50% more likely to die in America by the time you're 40, as compared to Canada.
What study is that from?
It was mentioned in most advanced country on Earth thread. I think it is calculated from the percentage of the US population that dies before forty.

Quick google and we get-
http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?v=26
8.27 to 7.61 death rate
6.3 to 5.08 infant mortality
78.14 to 81.16 LE at birth

Also Canada infant mortality rate is rather high- the best in the world is 2.6 in Japan
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/detai ... -rate.aspx

I found US by age
http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/

,but no Canada. Can someone provide the link?
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MarshalPurnell
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Re: [Op/Ed] "Canada's ObamaCare Precedent"

Post by MarshalPurnell »

This is precisely the kind of highly effective, completely disingenuous argument that poisons the prospects for selling universal health care in America as such. It presents a series of anecdotes dressed up as general trends, backed by an authoritative-seeming source, that flatters American perceptions of the country and which will generally not be questioned unless the individual reader already has reason to be skeptical. The article can be torn apart here readily, but cannot be so easily attacked on a broader basis by the unwillingness of universal health care advocates to directly attack the flaws of the present American system. Rather than admit that it needs serious modification or even wholesale replacement they instead try to sell their measures as minor interventions to "fill in the gaps" ignoring that even people nominally covered are still at risk of bankruptcy and worse if they have a serious medical condition. The end result will probably be a bloated hybrid system that still leaves most care decisions in the hands of private bureaucrats, does nothing to address the out of control costs of the health care industry, and thus fails to address questions of basic fairness and efficiency.

Heh. I wish the US model would wind up looking like the French model. It's an excellent health care system and probably better suited to American conditions than the Canadian model. Even the Australian model of subsidized mandatory insurance would be better than our present condition. Instead it's probably going to look like Medicare for Everyone, and that at best.
There is the moral of all human tales;
Tis but the same rehearsal of the past,
First Freedom, and then Glory — when that fails,
Wealth, vice, corruption, — barbarism at last.

-Lord Byron, from 'Childe Harold's Pilgrimage'
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