The Next Generation: REBOOT!!!

[tim31]

I do find it funny though that people complain about the size of the rec facilities on the E-D, in TMP the E Refit had a massive rec deck and what looked like a pool or a garden in the secondary hull.

Nick Meyer's highlighting of the military aspect of E-nil in TWOK allows people to stick their fingers in their ears and say LA LA LA. Bowling alley indeed

[Uraniun235]

The Enterprise found the cure - the collected experiences of the Talosians (who, in this universe, live much further away from the Federation than in TOS), who had turned in on themselves so completely that they eventually ran out of things to conjure for their own amusement, and had come to know a hellish tedium. The Talosians provided a program which would impart this experience on Federation citizens, along with a subtle subconscious nudge to find the holodeck distasteful.

This fails the fridge logic test. I'm sure it's the kind of thing Hollywood would lap up but it doesn't actually work. Why is real life any more interesting than holodeck simulations? Answer; it isn't. Real life is inherently less varied and more tedious. You can't even say that it has the thrill of real danger, because holodeck safties can be disabled. The only thing that will cut down holodeck usage in this scenario is either necessity (e.g. defence), or an ethical desire to go out and make the galaxy a better place (e.g. Contact, from the Cultureverse).

You think people are going to willingly abandon the holodeck to go stand in the front lines? They'll stay in there until the enemy destroys them and the holodeck.

I thought I was just making another Star Trek "captain has to break paradise" story, along with some TNG elements (because otherwise why are we making TNG again when the current generation is still... well, current?) but I guess the method was unsound. Or do you have a problem with the basic premise of the "break paradise" stories?

[Stofsk]

I liked your idea dude.

[Starglider]

You think people are going to willingly abandon the holodeck to go stand in the front lines?

Yes, I do. Simulations can actually desensitize people to violence and personal risk and make them more prepared to do so than before, but that's beside the point. What I was objecting to was your assertion that simulation is 'boring' and that you can make people abandon simulations by proving that 'they will eventually become boring'. Firstly real life is inherently far more boring, and secondly even if that were true, there are surely more than enough interesting things to do on a holodeck to fill up a mere human lifetime (which the Trek humans haven't managed to greatly extend).

I thought I was just making another Star Trek "captain has to break paradise" story... Or do you have a problem with the basic premise of the "break paradise" stories?

It's one thing when a small elite are enjoying themselves at the expense of everyone else, but for an egalitarian society, yes that theme sucks. You will note that it is found rather more often in TOS than in TNG - Kirk blasted Vaal to bits while Picard reasoned with the 'Edo God' and ultimately left their society alone. Incidentally fuck you Kirk, condemning all those villagers on Gamma Trianguli VI to painful death by disease/starvation/childbirth/not-so-old age in a stone age society.

[ray245]

For the deep space exploration idea, instead of spending out one major ship, is it hard to ask for Starfleet to send out an entire fleet of ships for exploration and keep in contact with each other all the time?

Also, how often did we see episodes of Starfleet discovering a human colony? Going where no man has gone before? Yeah, that makes sense when you see so many human colony every now and then on the show.

Also, since Star Trek finally have a decent budget, can we see really exotic planets and creatures?

Can we stop seeing things like Klingon or Romulans every now then as well?

[Revy]

This idea I had for a new Trek Series, but I reckon it could work just as easily with a TNG reboot.

The premise was that one of the Traveller aliens (like the one from Where No One Has Gone Before) approaches the Federation and offers them advanced propulsion tech, advanced enough for them to easily reach and explore other galaxies (and by this I mean actual engine designs as opposed to magical thought waves). The only condition being that they take the alien with them when they use the tech to explore, as he/she wants to see the universe but wants company (the Traveller in TNG hitched rides on Starfleet ships so he could meet people and see new places). Possible new crewmember who might be able to stop the Enterprise from becoming the bitch of every noncorporeal/god creature they happen to wander across (because boy, that gets real old real fast).

Anyway the Federation agrees, and after initial testing to make sure the tech works and is safe, they implement it into their ships. While they intend to use it to fully explore the Milky Way, a project is set up for the exploration of another galaxy altogether. Rather than send one or two ships however, who will be screwed if they break down (and we get stuck with Voyager again) they have the idea to build a whole new mobile Starbase outfitted with the new tech, which will be capable of carrying a fleet of ships to another galaxy, where it will serve as a hub and base of operations.

As a new Trek series, I figured it would be able to have a core group who work on the Starbase as regulars, whilst also being able to focus on a variety of different starships and crews each episode, perhaps bringing back popular/good ships/crews for multiple episodes. As a TNG reboot it would act as a way to shake things up, with the E-D being able to explore a whole galaxy free of Romulans, Klingons and political missions. Just pure, 100% exploration in a completely uncharted galaxy where anything could happen, but also having occasional support from the other ships if needed so the E-D isn't completely on its todd all the time.

Really, we've had a whole bunch of Trek series and movies and they're still poking around the Milky Way despite there being how many galaxies in the universe they've never seen? (and by seen I mean been to) Maybe I'm just being influenced too much by Stargate, but exploring a new galaxy seems a good way to start a clean slate (which they did by rebooting the franchise anyway, eh).

[Starglider]

For the deep space exploration idea, instead of spending out one major ship, is it hard to ask for Starfleet to send out an entire fleet of ships for exploration and keep in contact with each other all the time?

They did. The Enterprise met up with other explorer ships from time to time, e.g. the Yamato, and smaller survey/science ships such as the Bozeman.

Also, how often did we see episodes of Starfleet discovering a human colony?

Presumably in the early-warp era it was easier for groups to slip off without recording where they were going. Frankly this is fine as long as it's a minority of the episodes, because it shows interesting views of what human society can become (in theory - the episode about cloning was a nice concept even if badly written). Plus remember that makeup/effects budgets are higher now and alien-of-the-week is (a bit) easier to do.

Also, since Star Trek finally have a decent budget, can we see really exotic planets and creatures?

As long as you don't mind heavy use of CGI, yes.

Rather than send one or two ships however, who will be screwed if they break down (and we get stuck with Voyager again) they have the idea to build a whole new mobile Starbase outfitted with the new tech, which will be capable of carrying a fleet of ships to another galaxy, where it will serve as a hub and base of operations.

I like that idea. I imagine that Trek writers and producers would traditionaly balk at having to design and detail an entire fleet (and station) in the initial development period, and then manage a potentially huge cast. It worked fine for BSG though, so maybe it's more practical now. I'd use some kind of huge, fixed 'transwarp slingshot' installation so that the ships themselves aren't ridiculously fast, and so that they're stuck there for the first two or three years while a second slingshot is assembled in the new galaxy.

[Jade Owl]

Any successful reboot of TNG needs to fulfil one basic requirement: a permanent and irreversible vasectomy for Jack Crusher before he marries.

[tim31]

Or, we could actually write Wesley Crusher as less of a Mary Sue and allow the actor playing the character to develop the role?

Hell, let's mix it up, say Jack shoots thirty seconds later or something, and we get Leslie Crusher, girl genius. Nerd chicks are en vogue in television at the moment, it'd totally work.

[Aaron]

Or, we could actually write Wesley Crusher as less of a Mary Sue and allow the actor playing the character to develop the role?

Hell, let's mix it up, say Jack shoots thirty seconds later or something, and we get Leslie Crusher, girl genius. Nerd chicks are en vogue in television at the moment, it'd totally work.

Just rewrite him as a midshipman, on board for on the job training. That has been mentioned a number of times IIRC and it's probably the best idea for him that I've heard, if we must have a teenaged wonder kid at all.

[tim31]

The new movie did have a wonderkid... Seventeen year old astronav who was crazy good at maths?

[Aaron]

The new movie did have a wonderkid... Seventeen year old astronav who was crazy good at maths?

I haven't seen it yet but I just write that off as Chekov joining under an analogue to the Soldier Apprentice Program, in other words; he joined early, went through school at their expense in exchange for x number of years in service.

Edit: Was he obnoxious, like Wesley? That was my major gripe with the kid, that and he turned into a complete dick later on. Well and SF Captains apparently being able to field commission random civvies.

[tim31]

I didn't find him to be, but others have complained of it. Mostly he seemed earnest, excited to be there, and useful.

Wesley Crusher wasn't all bad. He got to tap that sweet sweet Ashley Judd arse.

[Havok]

The new movie did have a wonderkid... Seventeen year old astronav who was crazy good at maths?

I haven't seen it yet but I just write that off as Chekov joining under an analogue to the Soldier Apprentice Program, in other words; he joined early, went through school at their expense in exchange for x number of years in service.

Edit: Was he obnoxious, like Wesley? That was my major gripe with the kid, that and he turned into a complete dick later on. Well and SF Captains apparently being able to field commission random civvies.

Pike specifically calls him "The Russian Whiz Kid", so I think he is like the Doogie Hauser of Starfleet. He wasn't obnoxious at all to me, in fact, very likable. I hope the next movie fleshes him out a little bit.

It seems to me as if Pike had carte blanch to stack the Enterprise with the best and brightest Starfleet had to offer.

[Sidewinder]

With Vulcan's destruction, the resulting refugee crisis will keep the Federation busy for decades. The "Starfleet is not a military organization" delusion will evaporate as other Federation members demand protection, i.e., WARSHIPS to prevent any Nero-wannabes from doing the same thing to their homeworlds- the Prime Directive will likely join it in oblivion, as the reason Federation ships "boldly go where no one has gone before" is changed from an idealistic "Let's explore the galaxy, make some friends, and have some fun!" to a pragmatic "We need to secure our borders and defend our people. To do this, we need to know WHAT the HELL is out there. If we discover a THREAT to the people we swore to protect, we must NEUTRALIZE this threat- non-intervention is NO LONGER an option."

The Klingons will also be busy for decades. The destruction of 47 Klingon warships is a blessing in disguise- with those seemingly obsolete ships out of the way, they can direct their energies on designing and building newer ships, likely incorporating technology from the Narada (see the Memory Alpha article on a deleted scene).

The Federation and the Klingons will become reluctant allies, like the US and China in the decade before the Soviet Union fell- there's little trust between them, but ABSOLUTELY NO TRUST in the state that Nero & Co. hail from, and they want all the help they can get.

The Romulans no doubt will benefit from the fact their strongest rivals need time to recover- considering Nero wanted to avenge the destruction of Romulus, I doubt he'll do nothing to warn Romulans from the past about dangers from the future- but they'll see the Federation and the Klingons act all lovey dovey (hoping the ILLUSION of a close Klingon-Federation relationship will deter Romulan aggression). They'll stop isolating themselves and seek allies of their own- maybe the Cardassians?

Here's one that would actually make sense: make the Enteprise in the series a military explorer instead of the Galactic Princess cruiseliner with weapons accessories.

that will be great so by the end of the five year mission these people will really hate their jobs

Seriously, are there any five year missions in the real world that would cut you off from your family and all luxury? Does anyone voluntarily sign up for those jobs?

I can see that maybe happening back in the 17th century, where technology didn't allow it to work. But Star Trek is a future, not lol pressed miserable sailors in SPAAAAAACE.

How about a compromise: the Enterprise is FORWARD DEPLOYED for X years, but is always in touch with a starbase capable of supporting her. The ship goes on X-month-long missions before she returns to the starbase for X months to refuel/rearm and receive any necessary repairs/upgrades. The crewmembers visit their families while the ship is in drydock- the families live on the starbase, NOT on the starship, and are relatively safe from anything that will threaten the ship.

[dworkin]

I would enjoy a shameless stealing from history. Have the Enterprise sent out on a scientific mission to observe phenomena
A (eg a planetary system forming) and check-out colonies B,C and D (which are on the way) inside the federation and sytems E, F, G which are not in the federation but STL colony ships were headed that way (and not just from earth).

Within that format I'ld also have several episodes per system, after all a planet (not to say star system) is a big place and could use some exploring, dealing with separtist colonies, local aliens and fending off a hostile power (the French, but in space). And since while a scientific survey of developing planets is very interesting it would make boring TV. The Enterprise would have to deal with (the Dutch) who want to mine all those easily to get to heavy metals.

On the way back the ship is reqested to stop in at H, I and J to deal with the escalating conflict with the (French) or (Dutch).

And if you are going to have Data, make him a member of a machine species member of the Federation. He's very happy as a machine and will find the borg equally disgusting, as viewed from the other side and all that.

[Nephtys]

Why can't the Enterprise 'boldly explore strange new planets' in the same way the British did? As in, to get there before the Spanish/French/Russians/Whatever. A show about competing Great Powers would be interesting, have lots of opportunity for political intrigue, old fashioned unknown adventure, and action. Less moral 'We need to do the right thing' and more pragmatism. Sure, make the UFP a utopia and the people generally enlightened... but not towards the Dirt People of Ashball Ceti IV, who are currently sitting on top of a giant uh... crude dilithium reserve, which the um... Union of Cardassian Socialist Republics wants. Yes.

[Stark]

With Vulcan's destruction, the resulting refugee crisis will keep the Federation busy for decades. The "Starfleet is not a military organization" delusion will evaporate as other Federation members demand protection, i.e., WARSHIPS to prevent any Nero-wannabes from doing the same thing to their homeworlds- the Prime Directive will likely join it in oblivion, as the reason Federation ships "boldly go where no one has gone before" is changed from an idealistic "Let's explore the galaxy, make some friends, and have some fun!" to a pragmatic "We need to secure our borders and defend our people. To do this, we need to know WHAT the HELL is out there. If we discover a THREAT to the people we swore to protect, we must NEUTRALIZE this threat- non-intervention is NO LONGER an option."

Putting aside your nerd power-fantasy for the moment, no amount of military spending or aggressive imperialism would have saved Vulcan. Nero is FROM THE FUTURE, remember? Unless they have Timecops, there's nothing but odds stopping it from happening again. There is no security from future time-travel, sorry.

[RedImperator]

With Vulcan's destruction, the resulting refugee crisis will keep the Federation busy for decades. The "Starfleet is not a military organization" delusion will evaporate as other Federation members demand protection, i.e., WARSHIPS to prevent any Nero-wannabes from doing the same thing to their homeworlds- the Prime Directive will likely join it in oblivion, as the reason Federation ships "boldly go where no one has gone before" is changed from an idealistic "Let's explore the galaxy, make some friends, and have some fun!" to a pragmatic "We need to secure our borders and defend our people. To do this, we need to know WHAT the HELL is out there. If we discover a THREAT to the people we swore to protect, we must NEUTRALIZE this threat- non-intervention is NO LONGER an option."

Make sure the phasers have trigger guards.

[open_sketchbook]

My problem with the "rar rar military-focused starfleet" is that, well, it might not be Star Trek anymore. I think that a subtler set of changes is more in order. Replicators still around, Federation still a utopia, that stuff can all still exist, we can just explore it better and avoid getting caught in high and might morality plays and we'll have something good. The only thing I want is families off the ships; sit them at a Starbase somewhere as suggested above.

One of the changes I think would be interesting is a division in Starfleet's resources; there are still explorer ships like the Enterprise but within the Federation itself are smaller, more heavily armed response ships standing by in each system or for groups of systems. Instead of having the Enterprise D constantly shifting about fixing problems in Federation space when it should be exploring, we can actually have it move out of the Federation for seasons at a time before being brought back for leave than doing internal work. Same sorta stuff, more consistency.

[Samuel]

With Vulcan's destruction, the resulting refugee crisis will keep the Federation busy for decades. The "Starfleet is not a military organization" delusion will evaporate as other Federation members demand protection, i.e., WARSHIPS to prevent any Nero-wannabes from doing the same thing to their homeworlds- the Prime Directive will likely join it in oblivion, as the reason Federation ships "boldly go where no one has gone before" is changed from an idealistic "Let's explore the galaxy, make some friends, and have some fun!" to a pragmatic "We need to secure our borders and defend our people. To do this, we need to know WHAT the HELL is out there. If we discover a THREAT to the people we swore to protect, we must NEUTRALIZE this threat- non-intervention is NO LONGER an option."

Putting aside your nerd power-fantasy for the moment, no amount of military spending or aggressive imperialism would have saved Vulcan. Nero is FROM THE FUTURE, remember? Unless they have Timecops, there's nothing but odds stopping it from happening again. There is no security from future time-travel, sorry.

That would be a complete and utter change of the formula (the Enterprise traveling through time to steal technology to insure they are stronger... which results in stronger opponents), but they do have time travel in TOS. And there is protection from time travelers- lots and lots of guns. Unless future guy has magic shields, the defenses will be crushed eventually.

[Starglider]

And there is protection from time travelers- lots and lots of guns.

Just... no. No amount of 18th century ships of the line could prevent a time-traveling USS Nimitz from bombing London to rubble, and that's not even considering the fact that deliberate time travellers can simply travel back further and wipe out your civilisation when it is still at the mud huts stage.

[Big Orange]

The new Galaxy-class is in some ways like the original Galaxy-class, only a more robust design that is all saucer section with no vulnurable, silly secondary hull, perhaps similar to this. Most of the interior sections would perhaps be more similar to a Intrepid-class, although we could have big state rooms and luxurious ranking officer quarters with the more homely original TNG-style decore, only there is more polished wood and marble. But think of the Enterprise-D more like a flying embassy/consulate crossed with a aircraft carrier, rather than a Marriott hotel.

The main bridge is located deep within the saucer section and so like the underused battle bridge. No carpeting in either the bridge, engineering, or the sick bay. It should be the other way round with the secondary bridge located on the outer hull with exterior windows, with the main bridge located many decks down and encased in armour (the secondary bridge is usually used if the ship's sensors have been knocked out and can also detatch as a seperate lifeboat). The uniforms could be a subtle combination of the uniforms seen in TWoK and FC. Helmets, caps, berets, and the like have not ceased to exist.

Starfleet and the Federation are still relatively cuddly but having planet Vulcan demolished has knocked out most of their more unrealistic idealism, yet luckily the population of Vulcans has rebounded back to sustainable levels and they're much more part of the Federation. The Klingon Empire was initially in bad shape after losing many dozens of ships, with its border territory openly encroached upon by the Romulan Star Empire and Cardassian Union when they smelt blood. However this renewed Klingon patriotism and most of their industrialized systems were some way away from the Romulans and Cardassians, so this gave the Klingons incentive to rebuild their lost fleets several times over and expand into much of the Cardassian Union's territory instead. The Romulans proved a tougher nut to crack and so the Klingons signed a non-aggression pact with them.

In the Federation androids and sentient androids are more common, with cultural rivalries between the two types of artificial sentients growing in addition to the underlining civil rights issues. Holograms are cheaper and gain their humanity quicker, but are jealous of the androids' much greater freedom outside the holodeck and physical presence.

[Starglider]

The new Galaxy-class is in some ways like the original Galaxy-class, only a more robust design that is all saucer section with no vulnurable, silly secondary hull

That thing looks awful and in no way like a Federation starship. What is the point of calling it a 'TNG reboot' if you are going to discard even basic design cues? It is perfectly possible to make a structurally sensible design while retaining the basic shape, the Sovereign class was fine in that regard.

No carpeting in either the bridge, engineering, or the sick bay.

Oh noes carpeting is evil! Metal grids are so much more manly and hardcore? What exactly is your problem with carpeted floors, of all things, when 24th century materials technology can presumably make them as durable and fireproof as any other floor material?

It should be the other way round with the secondary bridge located on the outer hull with exterior windows, with the main bridge located many decks down and encased in armour

While there is no good reason for the bridge to be on the top, since the 'ejectable bridge lifeboat' idea from the TNG tech manual was never taken up, it's highly debatable how much use putting the bridge in the middle of the ship actually is. In the old Trek, Federation ships don't carry heavy armor because it isn't worth the weight penalty - just like real world navaies - and if it was you can bet the Klingons would use it even if the Feddies had bizarre ethical objections. I see no point changing this so you can play space ironclads - that would in fact give a retro SW feel, and again if you're going to do that why are you calling this a 'TNG reboot' again?

(the secondary bridge is usually used if the ship's sensors have been knocked out and can also detatch as a seperate lifeboat)

That would be worthless if it isn't manned in combat/dangerous situations. The whole point of a bridge being a lifeboat is so that the command crew can stay in control of the ship up until the last possible moment, instead of wasting 30 seconds running to the lifepods, sealing them and ejecting them.

Starfleet and the Federation are still relatively cuddly but having planet Vulcan demolished has knocked out most of their more unrealistic idealism

Earth was nearly destroyed in the first and fourth Trek movies. The Federation lost entire colonies on multiple occasions through the run of TOS and TNG, and entire planets to the Dominion in DS9, but it didn't seem to impact their idealism much. Again idealism is a defining feature of TNG, moreso than any of the other Trek series. If you don't like that, go remake Blakes 7 or Babylon 5 instead.

In the Federation androids and sentient androids are more common, with cultural rivalries between the two types of artificial sentients growing in addition to the underlining civil rights issues. Holograms are cheaper and gain their humanity quicker, but are jealous of the androids' much greater freedom outside the holodeck and physical presence.

I agree that this is worth doing. Plenty of interesting stories virtually for free, although I cringe at how horribly Hollywood writers would mangle the AI details (they usually do about as well at that as they do at astrophysics and naval architecture).

[Big Orange]

Oh noes carpeting is evil! Metal grids are so much more manly and hardcore? What exactly is your problem with carpeted floors, of all things, when 24th century materials technology can presumably make them as durable and fireproof as any other floor material?

I don't think bare metal is the way to go, I imagine something along the lines of polished linoleum tiling in the serious work areas and we had that in actual TNG/VOY shuttle bays, but not in the ready rooms which should remain well appointed comfort zones. And it seems naff to have carpeting in operation rooms, it's gross like a bog matt (unless the medical carpets are swarming with friendly nano machines that sterilize?).

Living quarters, recreation areas, and offices having nice carpets is just fine. I want Air Force One, not the clapped out Nostromo.

While there is no good reason for the bridge to be on the top, since the 'ejectable bridge lifeboat' idea from the TNG tech manual was never taken up, it's highly debatable how much use putting the bridge in the middle of the ship actually is. In the old Trek, Federation ships don't carry heavy armor because it isn't worth the weight penalty - just like real world navaies - and if it was you can bet the Klingons would use it even if the Feddies had bizarre ethical objections. I see no point changing this so you can play space ironclads - that would in fact give a retro SW feel, and again if you're going to do that why are you calling this a 'TNG reboot' again?

I don't have hulking ironclads in mind, I just don't want the main bridge to be exposed right on top (with fucking front windows, even if it looks good).

That would be worthless if it isn't manned in combat/dangerous situations. The whole point of a bridge being a lifeboat is so that the command crew can stay in control of the ship up until the last possible moment, instead of wasting 30 seconds running to the lifepods, sealing them and ejecting them.

Ditch the idea of two bridges (which seemed stupid in TNG anyway) and maybe make a single bridge that can both retract into the hull a few decks but can also eject as a seperate ship? The latter feature was well used in Galaxy Quest.

Earth was nearly destroyed in the first and fourth Trek movies. The Federation lost entire colonies on multiple occasions through the run of TOS and TNG, and entire planets to the Dominion in DS9, but it didn't seem to impact their idealism much. Again idealism is a defining feature of TNG, moreso than any of the other Trek series. If you don't like that, go remake Blakes 7 or Babylon 5 instead.

I don't want routine nihilism like Babylon 5 or even DS9 on occasion, but something along the lines of TOS which was never quite like TNG anyway. I like to strike a comfortable balance with the Federation and Starfleet being mostly reassuring, but there is danger and dark undertones, without getting ridiculous like the darkly comical Farscape or enjoyable dross like World War Z.

I agree that this is worth doing. Plenty of interesting stories virtually for free, although I cringe at how horribly Hollywood writers would mangle the AI details (they usually do about as well at that as they do at astrophysics and naval architecture).

Yeah androids and holograms should be more fleshed out as growing species in their own right, with perhaps the 29th century UFP being more like the Commonwealth from Andromeda and Iain M. Banks' Culture, with AIs superseding organics.

And for some wider Milky Way geopolitical ideas: the Cardassians were pushed from their core systems by the Klingon Defence Force, with the planet Bajor conquered by the Klingons instead, however even in retreat the Cardassians are still a deadly expansionist force: the exiled Cardassians set up a new Union in the absorbed territories of the Breen Confederacy, the Tholian Assembly, and former territories of the now defunct First Federation. The First Federation was by far the most advanced and powerful carbon based dominated faction in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, which was why they attracted the attention of the Borg Collective in 2297, with the First Federation's biological and technological distinctiveness added to the Borg's own (however the Borg stripped the FF territory and did not permanently colonise it).