From Ordering Steak and Lobster, to Serving It

[LaCroix]

Anybody who made 200k a year and hasn't anything put aside for bad times has earned everything he is hit with. He made money by leeching it out of the financial industry, and has no experience beyond doing that. The only jobs that experience would be useful are professional fraud, like ponzi sheme - jobs or television preacher. Good riddance.

With all that money made, he still has a mortgage of over 6k per month! How? Because of the ~ 15k a month he made, he spent all on lobster and stuff, probably. Even now, they make 4k a month, that's more than enough to live on. Hell, most people in vienna only make 14k a year, and live well on double income, and vienna is known to be expensive.

[Alferd Packer]

I won't shed a tear for him or his wife, but I definitely feel for his kids. Sure, they'll be pretty amenable to living in a small, crummy apartment now, while they're young and don't really care about such things, but when there's no money for either of them to college in 10 years, that's when the poor planning on their father's part really gets to bite them on the ass.

[Mayabird]

Something I've noticed about these sob story articles (and there are many of them) is that these people apparently don't have a cent of savings despite having had six figure incomes for years. If anything their debt puts them in the realm of negative savings. Every single one of these people. And yet whenever I see those little sappy stories about people cutting back to save money, I never see mention of people trying to build up even a rainy day fund in case of a layoff.

I wonder if this economic mess would be a lot less bad if people remembered that banks are supposed to be places where people can stash money safely, instead of mortgage ATMs.

[aerius]

Saving is un-American, spend your way to prosperity!

Curious though, do they still stress the 3 months of savings rule down in the US? When I was in high school, they drilled that into us in all of our social sciences classes, we had to have at least 3 months of living expenses put away in cash at all times. And of course I got it from my parents too. Save, because shit will happen and you will need it.

I wonder if this economic mess would be a lot less bad if people remembered that banks are supposed to be places where people can stash money safely, instead of mortgage ATMs.

It would because we wouldn't have the massive debt problem which we do now, and banks wouldn't be able to go apeshit with their predatory lending programs & structured finance crap. We'd still have recessions, but not full-out financial meltdowns.

[Mayabird]

When I was growing up, the only person who seriously stressed the importance of savings to me was my mother, and she's Japanese. In fact, I don't remember ever hearing anything about saving money from anyone or anything related to my schooling, though I do remember it from some old cartoons I'd watched. ...I thought I remembered something for a moment, but that was just them trying to tell me how important it was to be saved by Jesus.

[ray245]

Saving is un-American, spend your way to prosperity!

Can't we say that it's American for the top 1% of the earning bracket to save money but not the 99% to save their money?

[Uraniun235]

I don't recall any such exhortation for savings in my high school classes - but then, my high school didn't have any classes on finance, nor any requirement for Home Ec.

[Surlethe]

Curious though, do they still stress the 3 months of savings rule down in the US? When I was in high school, they drilled that into us in all of our social sciences classes, we had to have at least 3 months of living expenses put away in cash at all times. And of course I got it from my parents too. Save, because shit will happen and you will need it.

Are you kidding? US high schools don't teach any financial skills. Everything I have learned about finances, savings & checking accounts, budgeting, the banking system, and financial discipline I have learned from my parents, by reasoning through it, and (on occasion) by screwing something up. I have heard the 3-months rule, but only informally (from my parents, that sort of thing), and not in any sort of formal setting at all.

[Samuel]

Mr. Araya dropped out of college in 1992 to work in the pits, where he quickly advanced from runner to trader. He shifted between large firms like J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and smaller shops like Aren Brokerage Service, the firm that eventually laid him off.

This is why he is screwed. He didn't bother generalizing the amount of skills he has, so all he has is being a trader and a high school degree. This isn't just people don't want someone entitled- this is a person who didn't think he would ever lose his job or be in a position where no one was hiring.

How many people have such a short term view? My parents are constantly telling me that I need multiple skill sets, that I can't live of just one profession, that I need to learn even when on the job, etc.

I thought I remembered something for a moment, but that was just them trying to tell me how important it was to be saved by Jesus.

What cartoons did you watch

[Mayabird]

I thought I remembered something for a moment, but that was just them trying to tell me how important it was to be saved by Jesus.

What cartoons did you watch [/quote]

No, no, the things about saving money were cartoons. Old Warner Brothers ones, I believe. The thing about being saved by Jesus? That was schooling. That same damn public school that I wish would burn down along with most everyone in it, everyone who supports it, and anyone with the mentality that would support it if they knew about it.

I might as well tell about my high school economics class, to let everyone know how shitty it was. All we did was sell T-shirts. That's it. Sell five shirts (or just pay for five shirts and pretend they were sold), and you got an A. All the state of georgia required was that one class and apparently that worthless excuse of an economics class covered that requirement.


And while I'm here, I never actually heard the "three month rule" from my mom. It was the "$25,000 rule", instead, though I might have to revise that upwards a bit for inflation.

[J]

No, no, the things about saving money were cartoons. Old Warner Brothers ones, I believe.

Hmmm...sounds like the early Scrooge McDuck features where he teaches his grandnephews all about money.
Part 1
Part 2
Saving, investing, budgeting, the history & purpose of money and basic economic theory, it's all there.

[Gomu Niwatari]

I did learn the 3 month rule in high school, but that and all related lessons were accompanied by the statement "I'm not required to teach this, but you need to know it." Oddly enough, I was taught to write a check in elementary school. why a 10 year old needs to know how to spend money but doesn't need to know how to save it, I have no idea.

[Glocksman]

I did learn the 3 month rule in high school, but that and all related lessons were accompanied by the statement "I'm not required to teach this, but you need to know it." Oddly enough, I was taught to write a check in elementary school. why a 10 year old needs to know how to spend money but doesn't need to know how to save it, I have no idea.

As an aside, my mother was surprised when I correctly filled out a check in her checkbook at the age of eight back in 1975.
My sister can manage money so well that she can make the buffalo on an old nickel squeal before she spends it.

Too bad I didn't inherit that skill.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Well there is an old Warner Bros cartoon with Sylvester and a bunch of alley cats, and Elmer Fudd. Sylvester gets a sum of money, and want to blow it all. (Sylvester inherits it, and Emler is administering the will) Emler shows him an educational film about money, savings and investments, while his buddies watch through the window. At the end of the flick, Sylvester BSes Emler to get him off his case, and goes to spend a lot of money in a night on the town with his alley cat buddies. The buddies admonish him for not paying attention to the film, and hector him about saving and investing his dough!
Is THAT the cartoon about money that you are thinking of?

[J]

My sister can manage money so well that she can make the buffalo on an old nickel squeal before she spends it.

It's the same with my sister, then again we're half Scottish so that's just living up to the stereotype of being the miserly tightwads which people of our heritage are supposed to follow. I think I got more of the free-spending French influence from my mum's side, I still keep a fairly clean budget but I'm more inclined to spend money on arguably wasteful (but) fun things than my sister.

[Master of Cards]

Curious though, do they still stress the 3 months of savings rule down in the US? When I was in high school, they drilled that into us in all of our social sciences classes, we had to have at least 3 months of living expenses put away in cash at all times. And of course I got it from my parents too. Save, because shit will happen and you will need it.

Are you kidding? US high schools don't teach any financial skills. Everything I have learned about finances, savings & checking accounts, budgeting, the banking system, and financial discipline I have learned from my parents, by reasoning through it, and (on occasion) by screwing something up. I have heard the 3-months rule, but only informally (from my parents, that sort of thing), and not in any sort of formal setting at all.

It's a REQUIREMENT to take a home economics class at my high school and it recently became one for the state. High schools have in recent times been adding these classes.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yes? And? He did such things, but the issue there shouldn't be that he did them, but that there is a system in place allowing him to do so, one that won't be fixed by pointing a finger at Araya and going "Fuck you!"
If you really have an issue with the business, then you should be looking at the root cause, not every single person who is employed by it.

Oh really? So you are blaming the system, and not the people who took advantage of the system and profited from it? Root cause my arse; he is part of he root cause because the system was created by people like him and was taken advantage of by people like him.

[LaCroix]

You know, back in my youth the term "banker" stood for "a person helping you to saveguard your savings, and to help you investing it for your future".

Today, it has changed to "a persen recklessly gambling with other person's money (for his own gain)"

Sign of times...

[ArmorPierce]

Lets see, he was making 6 digits salary for years. After 10 years he should have been able to make what the average person makes in their life time. Why all this sympathy when rich people get pulled back to reality when there are people that lived that everyday? Reminds me of a job interview when the interviewer said "all those poor people" talking about the people at wall street that lost their jobs. I can't feel that much sympathy when I have been worse off my entire life and continue to be so.

Him and his wife are probably still making around 60-65k a year which is not bad all.

It is not that difficult to live in nyc on 25,000. How about this, move out of Manhattan and into the bronx or brooklyn. Still in NYC with less a price

[The Duchess of Zeon]

When I was growing up, the only person who seriously stressed the importance of savings to me was my mother, and she's Japanese. In fact, I don't remember ever hearing anything about saving money from anyone or anything related to my schooling, though I do remember it from some old cartoons I'd watched. ...I thought I remembered something for a moment, but that was just them trying to tell me how important it was to be saved by Jesus.

My parents only stressed the importance of savings to me because debt was bad for religious reasons, and my dad wracked up $30,000.00 in credit card debt despite this. I am a pretty dutiful saver when it comes to money, by American standards, because of the fact that I internalized that lesson and grew to hold my parents in contempt, so their contrary example just made me hate them more, and when we were rooming together you still blew me out of the water by how little you were tempted with spending. Your mom did a good job and in comparison I always feel like I'm trying hard, but never reaching the level of frugality that seems to come naturally to you. On the positive side that's still about a hundred times better than the average American middle-class family, so...

[Kanastrous]

Seems it's best taught at home, if one's lucky enough to have parents who will teach it. My folks were both Depression-Era kids so being cautious with money didn't really have to be drilled into me; it's the standard with which I was raised.

If some teacher at school gives you all the necessary tools to be responsible with money, spendthrift parents at home can probably undo a lot of that good training.

[Patrick Degan]

Well there is an old Warner Bros cartoon with Sylvester and a bunch of alley cats, and Elmer Fudd. Sylvester gets a sum of money, and want to blow it all. (Sylvester inherits it, and Elmer is administering the will) Elmer shows him an educational film about money, savings and investments, while his buddies watch through the window. At the end of the flick, Sylvester BSes Elmer to get him off his case, and goes to spend a lot of money in a night on the town with his alley cat buddies. The buddies admonish him for not paying attention to the film, and hector him about saving and investing his dough!
Is THAT the cartoon about money that you are thinking of?

Quite possibly. There's another one in which it's mice being chased by Sylvester. The New York mouse is hosting his relatives from Germany and the Germans are awestruck by the prosperity of America. Between having to outrun or bludgeon the cat or set him on fire, the American mouse explains capitalism, capital investment and the profit/loss structure of business to his Old Country relatives.