SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VIII

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So is this KEI the same as the KEI in real life? Those missiles are huge and long and I have doubts you can put them in a Ticonderonga.

[RogueIce]

So is this KEI the same as the KEI in real life? Those missiles are huge and long and I have doubts you can put them in a Ticonderonga.

It's not a Tico he's using. He's doing it for this class.

Additionally, I have no idea what form the KEI is taking, so I can't answer on that half of it. So rather than reply to me, we should probably wait for him and/or Lonestar. I just wanted to clear up the half of it that I could.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So is this KEI the same as the KEI in real life? Those missiles are huge and long and I have doubts you can put them in a Ticonderonga.

It's not a Tico he's using. He's doing it for this class.

Additionally, I have no idea what form the KEI is taking, so I can't answer on that half of it. So rather than reply to me, we should probably wait for him and/or Lonestar. I just wanted to clear up the half of it that I could.

You do realise that even a Kirov would have trouble hosting such missiles? The Granit is 10m long and it has to be angled at 45 degrees just for the ship to accomodate it.

[RogueIce]

You do realise that even a Kirov would have trouble hosting such missiles? The Granit is 10m long and it has to be angled at 45 degrees just for the ship to accomodate it.

And maybe KEI is just an acronym they applied to something else because they could. What part of, "It's pointless to try and argue this with me since it's not my system" (basically what I said in my second part of the message) is difficult to understand? All I was saying is that it wasn't going to be based on Tico cruisers. Nothing more.

[K. A. Pital]

They quite probably are very, very angled, they have 14 m long canisters after all with the cruiser not being out of displacement and having typical dimensions. But the KEI is what, 10 m long? To be fair though, the Glouscester is still a small ship for such enormous weaponry. It has 1 m wide VLS cells, meaning 16 square meters of it's deck are gone, and so are over 224 cubic meters of it's internal volume - possibly like 300 m^3, accounting for the angling, support structures for the enormous VLS and the like.

Our cruisers that have similar sized VLS are far larger, but they also have more large VLS

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

They quite probably are very, very angled, they have 14 m long canisters after all with the cruiser not being out of displacement and having typical dimensions. But the KEI is what, 10 m long? To be fair though, the Glouscester is still a small ship for such enormous weaponry. It has 1 m wide VLS cells, meaning 16 square meters of it's deck are gone, and so are over 224 cubic meters of it's internal volume - possibly like 300 m^3, accounting for the angling, support structures for the enormous VLS and the like.

Our cruisers that have similar sized VLS are far larger, but they also have more large VLS

11 m apparently. But this is an ABM missile. You can't possible angle it and not lose a lot of energy launching it. They are in fact better off launching the missile from maybe an SSBN with the draft required.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, it's their bad engineering solution, not ours. I think the SM-3 or analogue is perfect as an ABM or ASAT missile. I don't really know why they went forward with putting huge-ass ABMs into their ships. It would make more sense to put large cruise missiles there.

[RogueIce]

I haven't a clue what KEI is, but because I've been playing with Shipbucket all night I decided to do this:

http://i43.tinypic.com/29uul1v.gif

And those center launchers are where it'd be at. I'll let you draw your own conclusions, and I'm sure Beo will be along later today to defend his decisions.

EDIT: That is to say, "I haven't a clue what Lonestar's KEI is." I'm quite capable of going to Wikipedia, thank you.

EDIT2: Needless to say, the above is Beo's creation. All I did was rotate the scale bar and stick it in the middle.

[Lonestar]

Well, it's their bad engineering solution, not ours. I think the SM-3 or analogue is perfect as an ABM or ASAT missile. I don't really know why they went forward with putting huge-ass ABMs into their ships. It would make more sense to put large cruise missiles there.

Not my engineering solution, there's a reason why the Old Dominion's STAR CAGNs weigh in at almost 30,000 tons.

[RogueIce]

Well Siege, quite the bombshell you dropped on us. I think I may do you one better though, as PeZook knows.

On that note, should be ready to post soon-ish. So I can escape the confines of Unreal Time.

[PeZook]

Well Siege, quite the bombshell you dropped on us. I think I may do you one better though, as PeZook knows.

On that note, should be ready to post soon-ish. So I can escape the confines of Unreal Time.

Feh, we slipped out of the timestream for but a few days. Slight error

[RogueIce]

Feh, we slipped out of the timestream for but a few days. Slight error

Certainly not the worst bit of Unreal Time the game as ever seen, certainly.

And...posted! Back to the normal timestream!

[Beowulf]

It's a true VLS. Part of the reason that the Granit launchers are angled are because, well, all russian VLS systems are angled, even if it is only a small amount. This is driven by the use of cold gas launching, in which they can't be sure a missile will actually go after launch. (Failure to ignite drops a live missile back onto the deck). Hot launches ignite the motor in the cell, so it's going to go if it moves out of the cell. Additionally, there's no real penalty to angling them, since they are cruise missiles, and extra horizontal impetus is bad. Plus, they tried to fit it all in the hull.

The Mk58 on the Gloucester is fit amidships, where they have pretty much the entire hull depth, as well as the entire superstructure depth available to fit. The missiles are large because they aren't designed to defend the ship, or the battlegroup, but rather are to defend an entire region. This necessitates a very large and powerful booster, which drove the size of the cells.

It's actually well in line with the size of the CG(X) that the USN is(was) designing to carry the KEI. They're looking at a 20k to 25k ton ship to carry them. Of course with KEI being cancelled in real life, who knows what's actually going to happen. Also, of course, this is a backfit onto existing ships. A new build cruiser to accomodate them would be much larger... probably right around 25-30k tons.

[Lonestar]

Some of the Naval Blogosphere had been speculating(before KEI was cancelled) that the hullform of CG(X) would be the LPD-17 class. That is, as they say, one big-ass CG.

Hence the massive size of ODN STAR CAGNs.

[Lonestar]

Steve: OICAS has not barred NFT Traffic.

[Steve]

Steve: OICAS has not barred NFT Traffic.

You barred military stuff, right? But we're dealing with the press here and they'd probably just call the entire thing "traffic". (also, why a barring of NFT military traffic would mean much is beyond me).

Edit: NM, re-read the post. You kicked out their fishing trawlers and forced the shutdown of any economic venture in the Archipelago that had NFT involvement.

[PeZook]

Willy Banks takes charge of the NFT now?

Damn. We're fucked.

[Bluewolf]

OK, after a few hours of tracing I managed to make a blank map of the SND world here. Just to be used to quickly update borders and make different maps of agreements and such. I can get in a bigger size if you need. I would like to make an updated SDN World Political map if any of you guys are happy with that. I just need to know what to change:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/ ... ltrace.png

The Map

PS: The big black lines are me trying rivers but failing, I will update those, don't worry.

[Steve]

Is it just me, or is Langley's archipelago placed way too damned far north?

[Bluewolf]

Is it just me, or is Langley's archipelago placed way too damned far north?

Well to be fair I missed out all that info at the bottem of the old one so it may just look farther North to you becasue of that. I went off this map for reference:

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs331&d=08373&f=s ... xed550.jpg

[Steve]

Damn, that map is waaaaay outdated.

[Lonestar]

The only country on Shepland independent of the OD is Augustine(the Florida part).

[Bluewolf]

If someone can redline/list what country needs to be what now etc I could knock up a map that is updated. The old one is too outdated and I now have a blank canvas to update it all on. I just went off the old borders for so its less confusing.

Edit:

OK, touched it up a bit, the border states btw are not in two, its just looks that way from how zoomed out the pic is:
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/ ... th2451.png

[CmdrWilkens]

So is this KEI the same as the KEI in real life? Those missiles are huge and long and I have doubts you can put them in a Ticonderonga.

Echoing a bit of what RI said I'm not sure which KEI he is using but the one mentioned in the Standard Munitions page (MIM-171) is the land based version of the KEI as was being developed up until its cancellation. There is a plan in the works for Navalization though it obviously will not fit in a Mk41 VLS. Now it can fit (diameter wise) in a Mk51 it won't fit vertically ( by about 3 ft). Now it CAN fit in the Mk58 which in turn easily fits along the centerline of the various STAR Cruiser vessels since the average draft is around 30ft. The darn things are 25k T class vehicles so they can certainly carry the dang thing.

At the same time even without the KEI we've still got the RIM-168 ABM and RIM-172 ASAT.

[Raj Ahten]

Edit: Disregard the content of this post in its earlier form as I've checked and the NFT didn't violate any agreements it had with Indhopal. Our agreement was about the Eastern Occidental, not Sabika.

Still having Sabika join the NFT isn't good news for Indhopa. At the very least it it increases regional tensions at a very bad time. Certain elements in the ISIA might also to do something about that vote to join the NFT, it being so closely contested and all.....