Orthodox judaism vs. Satans automatic lightswitch

[General Zod]

So it's apparently a sin to push buttons on a phone with your fingers or with a tool held by your fingers but ok if the tool is held between your teeth

Orthodox Jews seem to think their god is a letter not spirit of the law kind of a guy who gets pleasure out of seeing people finding legalistic loopholes in his arbitrary commandments. Which is odd as the Old Testament god seems to come across as some kind of ill balanced mob boss who want his orders followed to both the letter and spirit and who'd do very unpleasant things to anyone who tried this kind of legalistic bs on him.

It's because they're emergency workers. Turns out Jews can accept minor violations of their laws if preserving life takes priority? Shit, this is painfully easy to understand and even I'm not that well versed in Judaism.

[Plekhanov]

So it's apparently a sin to push buttons on a phone with your fingers or with a tool held by your fingers but ok if the tool is held between your teeth

Orthodox Jews seem to think their god is a letter not spirit of the law kind of a guy who gets pleasure out of seeing people finding legalistic loopholes in his arbitrary commandments. Which is odd as the Old Testament god seems to come across as some kind of ill balanced mob boss who want his orders followed to both the letter and spirit and who'd do very unpleasant things to anyone who tried this kind of legalistic bs on him.

It's because they're emergency workers. Turns out Jews can accept minor violations of their laws if preserving life takes priority? Shit, this is painfully easy to understand and even I'm not that well versed in Judaism.

Way to miss the point. If saving life is such a priority then why can't they just pick up the phone and use it normally then? What's with all this absurd use of tools held between their teeth?

Will you please explain to me how the notion that using a phone with your hands or even with an implement held in your hands is somehow wrong but it's ok so long as you hold the implement with your teeth is 'painfully easy to understand'? Because it makes no sense at all to me.

[Ace Pace]

It doesn't. Ultra-orthodox Jews are free from all this silly requirments of Logic* and such. See my prior post. The Ultra-orthodox are mostly distinct from the rest of the Jews is that when Orthodox Judaism (and Reform, Conservative and the rest) were thinking about how to integrate the modern world into their communities, and twisting contortions for things, the Ultra orthodox simply went "fuck off modern world."

To be more polite to them, what they think (and do) is that learning about the Torah (the phrase means abit more than it's litteral meaning) is more importent than anything else. Therfore, most Ultra-orthodox Jews don't work, they live, study and fuck. With a heavy emphasis on the 12 kid families.

*To be fair to them, they implement their fucked up stuff.

[General Zod]

So it's apparently a sin to push buttons on a phone with your fingers or with a tool held by your fingers but ok if the tool is held between your teeth

Orthodox Jews seem to think their god is a letter not spirit of the law kind of a guy who gets pleasure out of seeing people finding legalistic loopholes in his arbitrary commandments. Which is odd as the Old Testament god seems to come across as some kind of ill balanced mob boss who want his orders followed to both the letter and spirit and who'd do very unpleasant things to anyone who tried this kind of legalistic bs on him.

It's because they're emergency workers. Turns out Jews can accept minor violations of their laws if preserving life takes priority? Shit, this is painfully easy to understand and even I'm not that well versed in Judaism.

Way to miss the point. If saving life is such a priority then why can't they just pick up the phone and use it normally then? What's with all this absurd use of tools held between their teeth?

Will you please explain to me how the notion that using a phone with your hands or even with an implement held in your hands is somehow wrong but it's ok so long as you hold the implement with your teeth is 'painfully easy to understand'? Because it makes no sense at all to me.

Heh, okay, so I did miss the point. But as long as it doesn't actually interfere with their performance on the job it doesn't seem that big of a deal. Just ridiculous.

[eyl]

Will you please explain to me how the notion that using a phone with your hands or even with an implement held in your hands is somehow wrong but it's ok so long as you hold the implement with your teeth is 'painfully easy to understand'? Because it makes no sense at all to me.

As I understand, the logic (if it can be called that) is that even essential violations of Shabbat should as far as possible, be carried out in a different fashion than would normally be the case. Which is why, e.g. switches (for essential services - IIRC this example referred to the power company) shouldn't be flipped directly but can be with a tool or stick or such.

Of course, as has been pointed out, Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox are different - and not even the Ultra Orthodox are necessarily in step (case in point - the Hebrew version of cellphone article I found stated that the volunteers said they would discuss the matter with their own rabbis before implementing Halperin's directive).

[madd0ct0r]

It works the other way too:


My father (when he was an industrial oven salesman) was once asked if he would set the auto-turn -on for a bakery's oven.

>"I just sell them, i don't actually know how to work them."

-"It's ok, I'll talk you through it, but it has to be you not me touching the buttons"

>"?"

-"Well, to define bread as kosher, as well as the various ingredient rules, it has to be cooked on a fire lit by a jew."
-"When ovens came in, the interpretation is that the oven has to be turned on by a jew"
-"But this is due to go at 5am everyday, so if you'd just mind pressing these buttons..."

>"I'm a gentile. church of ireland.sorry"



Three generatations of my family have been repeatedly mistaken for jews. somebodyupthere's trying to say something.

[FSTargetDrone]

A pin used as a tool, held between the teeth? And this is used by emergency workers to dial a phone?

What intelligent person would see the using of small objects held between the teeth as anything other than a profoundly unsafe practice?

[Coyote]

You have to understand-- this is the ultra-Orthodox. When I was there in 1999 one Rabbi went off on people picking their noses on Shabbat because it was "work". Ultra-Orthodox to that degree won't be working in emergency services in the first place. They are so wrapped up in studying Torah that I doubt many of them are even aware that the Cold War is over, if they were even cognizant of it at all in the first place. They're basically Jewish ascetics ("monks" except they have families). Which technically is a violation of Judaism --they are commanded to be functioning members of the community, but these guys have chips on their shoulder about the secular world (which they even lump most other Jews in, unless they, too, are ultra-Orthodox).