The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Forty One Up

[Crayz9000]

Going back to the discussion about (not) lava, the rivers could be a slurry of things such as bitumen. In addition, we already know that Hell is high in sulfur; sulfur melts at around 200C and turns into a red liquid. 200C, of course, is definitely uncomfortably hot, but about a thousand degrees C cooler than basaltic lava. It is still hot enough to bake cookies with...

So I wouldn't be surprised to find the lava rivers composed of molten sulfur and / or bitumen (if there is bitumen, however, that means we've already found oil in Hell...)

[Baughn]

200C is already way above the upper temperature limit for protein-based biologies, though. Proteins wouldn't so much denature as just fall apart.

Extremophiles tend to max out at about 80-120C. I could accept 150C (under protest), but above that something has to be very screwy indeed. It would be an interesting plot point if it turned out that the chemical basis for hell-life was completely different from ours, though in that case there could be absolutely no interbreeding.. nah.

There's still the option of saying "a wizard did it", invoking the weird hell-physics, but.. it doesn't seem plausible. If the physics affected biology at that level, I'd have expected anyone who stepped in through the portal to immediately die.

[Stuart]

200C is already way above the upper temperature limit for protein-based biologies, though. Proteins wouldn't so much denature as just fall apart. Extremophiles tend to max out at about 80-120C. I could accept 150C (under protest), but above that something has to be very screwy indeed. It would be an interesting plot point if it turned out that the chemical basis for hell-life was completely different from ours, though in that case there could be absolutely no interbreeding.. nah. There's still the option of saying "a wizard did it", invoking the weird hell-physics, but.. it doesn't seem plausible. If the physics affected biology at that level, I'd have expected anyone who stepped in through the portal to immediately die.

I like the idea of a largely bitumen flow with the organic slurry releasing entrained light organic gasses (methane and ethane) that burn on release. So, the effect would actually be of a Yellowstone-like hot spring (100 deg C) with pockets of burning gas on the surface. That would give the symptoms described without being excessively hot. The source used actually says 'a river of fire" so it works quite nicely.

[Darth Wong]

200C is already way above the upper temperature limit for protein-based biologies, though. Proteins wouldn't so much denature as just fall apart.

I think we need to keep in mind that your entire body in Hell was somehow generated from your thoughts, since the original mass/energy of your body is still rotting in a coffin on Earth. In conjunction with a relatively low-temperature lava, I think we just need to accept that fresh (low temperature) matter continually replenishes the parts of your body which are burning off. Yes, it does seem to violate thermodynamics, but no more so than the fact that an entire new body is created for you in the first place.

Mind you, I suppose we could posit that there's a source for this mass/energy somewhere. If we go with the "shrinking pocket dimension" idea, there's constant energy to be had, even without resorting to a different kind of portal and other pocket dimensions.

[tim31]

After all, it has been said before that a closed environment couldn't have an open caldera pit and maintain stable temperatures without violating entropy.

[Baughn]

Maintaining stable temperatures isn't the problem; that happens naturally. The problem lies in ensuring that the caldera stays hot while the rest of the planet doesn't.. any closed system will eventually reach thermodynamic equilibrium, but you can delay it by coupling to a larger one (thus making it open).

On Earth, this works by radiating energy out into space, with the result that the planet is continually losing energy. Not that we'd notice, since it manifests as the inner core growing.

In Hell.. hm. It's too small a system to have lasted this long under normal circumstances (not that a planet-sized mass would have too little energy, but the demons would cook), but.. well, where is the energy for the caldera coming from in the first place?

It would not entirely surprise me to hear from seismographers that the caldera is actually connected to a different universe deep inside. Somewhere really hot; a peephole into the core of a star would do nicely, for billions of years. Heck, it may even have been caused by the demons, on accident.. or on purpose by someone who was emphatically not nearby at the time. Still, that isn't necessary; hell could simply have started off really hot.

That leaves figuring out why hell as a whole isn't cooking. There are only four solutions that I can think of. So, one of these:

- There's a portal to somewhere cold, somewhere (a few underseas ones to a real planetary ocean would do; something in vacuum would not, as vacuum conducts poorly.)
- Hell is much larger than it appears. There are spaces topographically connected to the surface (eg. no big insulators in between) that contain mostly vacuum (otherwise it'd be too noticable), that are hard to notice. So, directly above the floor is a good spot. This does really weird things to the geometry, though; it'd be easy enough to spot by trying to radar-map the other side of hell through the "ceiling", or in general any close examination.
- Physics has gone really wonky, and the "heat" interpretation of thermodynamics doesn't apply on a large scale. The phase-space interpretation of thermodynamics still could. This is actually the case for this universe, though more subtly; for hell, we'd be talking spatial boundary conditions or some such insanity. Physics would be horribly broken, however; getting close to a boundary condition is even worse than diving head-first into a black hole, just without the gravity.
- Thermodynamics never applied at all, being merely an approximation to a deeper theory. Perhaps heavily curved space can produce inherent energy pumps, and we just don't notice here because ours isn't. This would fix both the cooling and heating, in fact. It would only work on a large scale (that is, over a sufficient "angle", if we keep using the curve terminology), otherwise biology would break.

The last one is probably my least favorite, as it implies escaping the heat death of the universe. However, there's a simple fix for that, too; it could be powered by the collapse of the pocket dimension. As that collapse would have.. effects on zero-point energy (nobody quite knows what effects, but they'd be there), that could be the mechanism.

[tim31]

That leaves me wondering; was the temperature of Hell's ocean(s) mentioned in the first book? Because if they are significantly hotter than Earth's(on average), how does this affect ship operation and service requirements? Stuart alluded to this in the chapter featuring the Turner Joy, but if Hell's oceans are hotter, this will have an effect on bearings, seals, and the like; submarines would get pretty warm inside.

[Darmalus]

I've been wondering, why can't they build on top of the lava once it cools? Isn't cold lava just rock? Is it because it will take far to long until the lava cools enough to be stable?

[Darth Wong]

I've been wondering, why can't they build on top of the lava once it cools? Isn't cold lava just rock? Is it because it will take far to long until the lava cools enough to be stable?

That's like asking why no one builds a town in the middle of a salt flat.

[Darmalus]

I've been wondering, why can't they build on top of the lava once it cools? Isn't cold lava just rock? Is it because it will take far to long until the lava cools enough to be stable?

That's like asking why no one builds a town in the middle of a salt flat.

Salt flats are generally far away from water, but Detroit was on a river, and Sheffield looks to have lots of small bodies of water nearby. Is there another eason you don't build on a salt flat?

[Darth Wong]

I've been wondering, why can't they build on top of the lava once it cools? Isn't cold lava just rock? Is it because it will take far to long until the lava cools enough to be stable?

That's like asking why no one builds a town in the middle of a salt flat.

Salt flats are generally far away from water, but Detroit was on a river, and Sheffield looks to have lots of small bodies of water nearby. Is there another eason you don't build on a salt flat?

Because much of the suitability of a town for construction is based on what's below ground. Good ground for constructing a town is earthy for growing purposes (not to mention ease of digging), with a solid bedrock located well below the surface for a solid foundation.

[Jim Starluck]

For example... if you look at the Manhattan skyline, you can see that the huge skyscrapers are clustered in two distinct areas... down towards the southern end of the island, and right in the middle. These are where the underlying bedrock is close enough to the surface that the buildings can be anchored directly into it, lending them the stability needed for their size. In areas where the bedrock is deep below, however, the buildings are much smaller, since they don't have a strong foundation.

In post-war Detroit, they not only have to dig through the lava that is cooling or has cooled into solid rock, but they also have to go through whatever rubble is left beneath it.

What might happen is that the area is converted to farmland, as volcanic soil is very fertile. But I have no idea if that holds true for lava from Hell dropped out of the sky.



As to the whole "stories about dead people" debate from earlier... I agree that people whose "greatness" was dependent upon what they had built up in their mortal life are pretty much nobodies. In that sense, the playing field is level, and the recent dead will be able to adapt to the way things are in the modern world much more easily.

But those whose greatness was dependent upon personal characteristics still have a great deal of potential. A brilliant scientist is still going to be very smart and have an aptitude for science. A charismatic leader with a keen sense of tactics is still going to have those potentials. Sure, it might take them some time to catch up to modern practices and knowledge, but it isn't like the dead are an unchanging snapshot of what they were in life. Given how long they have to learn, there's no such thing as "can't teach an old dog new tricks."

I also agree that they probably won't play much of a role in the war with Heaven--too much catching up to do, too little time to do it in. By the time they're able to operate on par with the living, the war will be over. But this doesn't mean they don't have potentially interesting stories. Heck, the most interesting stories of all could be the dead learning about and trying to deal with everything that has happened since they died, which is what I look forward to seeing in the third installment.

As an off-the-top-of-my-head example... eventually we'll be able to have every American president who ever lived in the same room, and won't that be fun.

Or imagine Carl Sagan explaining modern astronomy to Galileo or Kepler.

[midnight77]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering, how does this affect life insurance? Now that death is not the horrible thing it once was, what does life insurance do? Another thing, can you transfer money to Hell? For example, if I died in a car crash, could my parents send me my college fund since I no longer need it for college? I've been writing a fanfic in my head about this. It sounds like a D&D adventure. "Okay, you and your band of undead explorers set out. Where do you go?"

[EdBecerra]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering, how does this affect life insurance? Now that death is not the horrible thing it once was, what does life insurance do? Another thing, can you transfer money to Hell? For example, if I died in a car crash, could my parents send me my college fund since I no longer need it for college? I've been writing a fanfic in my head about this. It sounds like a D&D adventure. "Okay, you and your band of undead explorers set out. Where do you go?"

Actually, you probably WOULD need it for college - just as soon as they get the first college in Hell built.

Hell IS going to modernize, at least those parts of it in closest contact with Earth. Factories will be build, mines dug, cities built... and a need for technologically educated workers will be keenly felt.

Of course, that won't stop you and your buddies from going on the Hellish version of "a year in Europe", but keep in mind, the longer you wait, the further behind your education will fall.

If you've got a self-sustaining fund, though, then it's not a problem. Anything, even an up-to-date education, can be managed with enough time, enough cash, and enough ennui.

Ed.

[Stuart]

Outside CBS Studios, New York, NY, May 2009

“I see your show got renewed.” Colonel Paschal looked around the inside of the stretched Hummer limousine. It wasn’t often that one saw limousines like this anymore, not with gas and diesel fuel being rationed the way it was. But, he guessed, his companion was a television star so the studio had certainly made some special arrangements somehow. Anyway, she needed a larger-than-normal vehicle.

“I was not surprised, given my audience ratings over the first run.” Lugasharmanaska settled back in her seat and poured herself a goblet of champagne from the bar in the rear of her Hummer. Paschal caught her yellow eyes looking sideways at him and guessed that she was already trying to work out what he wanted with her and to turn it to her own advantage. He also wondered if the CBS management had been fully aware of how effective her pheromones could be in a confined space. DIMO(N) was still failing to find a counter to their effect, the best that could be done was for anybody dealing with a succubus to be fully aware of the dangers and be on their guard. It didn’t always work.

Still, it might be that he was being unkind to her, ‘Tonight With Luga’ was the country’s top-rated evening chat show. Most of the country remembered fondly how she had boxed Bernie Madoff into a corner and he’d tried to bluff his way out by claiming she would have done the same in his position. Her reply, “Of course, but I’m a daemon from Hell, I’m supposed to be the epitome of evil. What’s your excuse?” had even caused the camera operators and stage crew to break out into howls of laughter. Paschal caught another sideways glance from her eyes and reminded himself that she hadn’t changed. She’d got a veneer of sophistication and style now, and her clothing sense had improved dramatically but she was still the same succubus who’d tried to play everybody around her. And was still doing so.

“You’re on four months hiatus I believe? Going to take a trip back to Hell?”

Lugasharmanaska shook her head. “I didn’t make many friends back home when I sided with humans.”

“You know Deumos is dead? She died of her injuries during the assassination of Satan. Brain got squeezed inside out and the exhaust from the missiles fried her.”

“I know that.” Lugasharmanaska more than knew it, she was intimately involved in the power plays that were going on between the various factions that were maneuvering to replace the late and not at all lamented Deumos. Not as a candidate of course, she had far too enjoyable a position here on Earth and being on the side of the humans brought with it many benefits. One of them was that each of the factions that did want to provide the Succubae with their new queen believed that she had great influence over the humans and could swing their support to her desired candidate. That was why she didn’t wish to visit Hell, if she did, the fact that her possession of any such power was a delusion would become all too obvious. As it was, they were competing with each other to offer her the most tempting considerations and privileges. It was, she had decided, much more profitable and much safer to be a Queen-Maker than a Queen. Anyway, she had her audience to think of.

“So, what plans do you have for the next four months?”

“I’m going to be resting.”

Paschal snorted with laughter. Lugasharmanaska was picking up the habits and traditions of show-business with slightly terrifying speed. If she carried on this way, she’d be addressing everybody as ‘darling’ soon. “In other words, you have no commitments and nothing substantial to do. Well, I can fix that. How would you like to return to DIMO(N) for a few months, help us out with giving Yahweh the same treatment we handed out to Satan?”

“How much, and do I get a percentage of the gross?”

Yup, thought Paschal, our Luga has been in show business too long already. “Voluntary service and no percentage I fear. Although your fans will be ecstatic to hear you’ve volunteered your service to help the war effort. Again.”

She studied his face carefully while the options ran themselves though her mind. The focus groups had pinned down her one drawback as an star was the doubts people had over her final loyalties. This was, Luga thought, unfair. She didn’t have any final loyalties. But, giving up her time on hiatus to help the human war effort would convince the dubious that she was indeed on their side.

“As long as volunteering gets me on the news. What do you want me to do?”

“We’re getting a battering from Yahweh. We’re taking losses, nothing we can’t afford but irritating nonetheless. The problem is, we can’t get back at him. Over the last six months, every possible way we can get to Heaven has been methodically closed down. So we’re pulling in every asset we can get our hands on to change that. And you, Luga, are one of them.”

She nodded. One thought running through her mind was that The Eternal City was effectively a mass of precious stones and looting it would make her a fortune. Another was that poking Yahweh in the eye was always worthwhile. And if it increased the debts that humans owed to her, well, so much the better. “Right, I will rephrase my answer, what do you need to know?”

“Essentially, everything you can tell us about the Great Celestial War, how it was fought, where the fighting took place, how Heaven and Hell managed to get at each other. More than that, what sort of weaponry Yahweh brought to the party.”

“I can answer some of that right here. To get directly from Heaven to Hell or the other way is very hard indeed. It takes much effort and cooperation from both ends. There were very few such links and only one survived the war. Heavengate. Why don’t you use that?”

“It’s been closed.”

“Very sensible of Yahweh, or, I suspect, Michaellanyahweh.” Luga pronounced Michael’s name daemon-style, running all the parts into a single word. “Michael is Yahweh’s general. But weapons? Nothing compared to yours. He has his beasts of course and they are terrible to behold but compared to your tanks and aircraft?” Luga snorted with laughter.

Paschal thought that her laughter had a most engaging quality to it, then cudgeled himself over the head. Damn it, those pheromones were dangerous and the confines of a limousine were perfect for them to develop their effects. He swallowed, got a grip on himself, and continued. “That’s a good start. Anyway, our experts will need to speak with you.”

“Why do you not ask Abigor? He fought in that war, one of Satan’s best Generals. Or Belial, who was one of his worst.”

“We have no idea where Belial is. Anyway, we never rely on a single source.”

“Very wise.” So the humans haven’t found Belial yet? Very interesting. “Driver, take us to my apartment.”

Desert, South of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. May 2009

“Does The One Above All know what He is asking?”

I don’t think ‘asking’ is quite accurate, thought Michael-Lan, screaming demands and issuing blood-curdling threats in almost incoherent rage would be a little more accurate. “Is there anything that is beyond the knowledge of The All-Seeing Father? Yes, He does know what He asks but there is no alternative. It is the Americans who are the center of the resistance to His Divine Will and it is they who must be made to suffer for their disobedience. The city close to here will be a suitable target I think. It is on the border so it should be easy prey for you.” It is also in Texas, whose state motto is ‘Shoot first, keep shooting, shoot some more and if anybody is left standing, ask some questions’. You’re in for an interesting time Uriel-Lan-Yahweh.

“There is no easy prey in this world Michael-Lan. There hasn’t been for many years but now things are much, much worse. Everywhere I go, humans scan the skies with their machines, if they see anything suspect, they send up their aircraft to investigate. Since the war started, every time they see something, they fire their missiles as well. Even the poorest and least of their countries have them now. And they have something else, something I do not understand. I have seen only hints of it but it is beyond my understanding.”

Michael-Lan nodded sympathetically. “Humans love their machines. Some of them even give them their own names and speak to them as if they are alive. Mexico is much poorer than America, come in from the south and the door should be open to you.”

“There is something else. Once, all I had to do was to will it and the humans died. No matter where, no matter when, they died without effort on my part. Now, it takes all my strength to snuff them out and even then, many survive. The animals of every kind die but the humans do not, not all of them. Since this war started, my task has become harder with every day that passes. Their aircraft are worst of all, once I could still the lives of the pilot and the aircraft would fall from the sky.” Uriel paused, remembering the times when he had seized upon one of the great passenger aircraft the humans used and snuffed out the lives of its crew leaving the aircraft to crash. To do the same to the human fighter aircraft had often been harder but now was virtually impossible. He had used all his strength and the effect had been beneath notice.

Michael-Lan frowned mightily. “Uriel-Lan-Yahweh, do you doubt the wisdom of The One Above All?”

Uriel stepped back in sheer shock at the accusation. “Never!”

“I am pleased to hear it. You are the Fire and Sword of The Most High, his most trusted servant and the bringer of wrath upon his enemies. The All-Seeing Father would be most disturbed if he was to hear that you believed there were humans who were beyond his reach. You can say that again, and hear it he will.

“You may tell The One Above All that tonight, Uriel will extinguish the city of El Paso.” Uriel drew himself up in a mixture or pride and offended dignity.

“I shall. Now, I must leave, I have business in the south.” Picking up a consignment of cocaine and some of those exquisite mushrooms. But no need for you to know that. Michael-Lan gathered his wings, inflated his sacs and took off, leaving Uriel staring after him.

2nd Battery, 365th Air Defense Battalion, El Paso, Texas. May 2009

“Sarge, we’ve got a bandit on the radar.”

“Sure it’s not civilian?” There was no need to ask whether it was military or not, there was no identification friend-or-foe system response and all military aircraft had such equipment. Of course, it could be on the fritz but that would then be a problem to sort out later. Better a blue-on-blue kill than a sky-volcano opening up over El Paso.

“If it is, its way out of the safe lanes. Could be a druggie chancing his luck of course.” Every airport was surrounded by safe lanes that civilian aircraft had, on pain of being shot out of the sky, use. Early on, a few pilots had chanced their arm and strayed out of those lanes only to have terminal arguments with missiles or fighters. The first resulting court case had gone to the Supreme Court in record time, where the Justices had ruled that responsibility for the shoot-downs lay with the pilots who had been flying in prohibited areas. Now, the only humans who flew in such areas were smugglers or the terminally stupid. The other alternatives were Baldricks or Angels and nobody objected to shooting them on sight.

“Air Force confirming. An AWACS has the contact as well, they read it coming in from the south, heading almost exactly due north. Speed 180 knots, altitude 7,500 feet.”

“Any word from the DIMO(N) net?” The land-lines were already opening up fast, they did every time something showed up somewhere it shouldn’t. Nobody could forget Detroit and the fifty thousand people who had died there. For a reason nobody could quite understand, the first sign that a portal was about to be opened was that cell phone reception went crazy. Monitoring the disruptions to service gave a warning to those beneath that something dreadful was about to happen.

“The DIMO(N) net reports no towers out, dropped frame rate is nominal. There’s no portal forming out there.”

“Confirm data. That makes it either a civilian bird way off course or a hostile flying in.” Corporal Baughn re-read the data from the displays. “It’s on a direct course for El Paso, or Ciudad Juarez, take your pick. I class this one has hostile.”

The battery commander glanced at the displays. “Confirm that. If it isn’t, he’s too dumb to live. Within range?”

“Sure, those are PAC-3s out there.”

“Get ready to fire.” There was a pause. “Hold one, the Air Farce are vectoring two F-16s in.”

“Trust the fly-boys to muscle in.”

“Not so fast. The fighters will be a decoy, they’ll herd him over us and distract him. Then, when the time is right, we’ll stick four PAC-3s up him and he’ll never know they were there.”

“Works for me.”

Over the Desert, South of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. May 2009

Uriel glided silently through the darkness, savoring the signs of life that came from the bustling city beneath him. If he had his way, he would stay this far south, the city was a fat target and even the human’s new-found resistance to his touch couldn’t save them from a savage death toll. But, he had his orders from The One Above All and they were not to be disputed. He would have to go further north, to the American city that lay beyond the river. It was easy to see where the divisor was; both cities were brightly lit but the part north of the river was almost garish in its multitude of lights and colors.

There was another reason why Uriel knew he was heading further north than he had been for many years. His skin was itching madly and it got worse by the minute. Somehow, the humans knew he was here and were already preparing one of their explosive welcomes for him. He sent out the first gentle touch of his mind, gauging reaction and response rather than actively trying to snuff out the existences of those beneath him. As he had expected, the resistance was there, it varied in its effects from a hindrance to a complete block, but it was there. It was time to conduct his attack.

Uriel concentrated and focused his mind on the northern part of the great sea of light underneath him. His touch was rejected, blocked, neutralized. He concentrated his willpower, pouring energy from his body into the attack, sending out great waves of his touch to blanket the ground beneath. In the part of his mind not conducting the onslaught, he visualized what must be happening on the ground below, the people simply dying as they stood or walked, slumping to the ground, their lives extinguished as if they had never been. His great wings in exultation as the power of his touch lapped the ground below. The resistance was still there, greater than in any of his attacks further south, but he could feel that at least some of the power he was emitting was finally taking its toll.

It was then that Uriel realized he was hearing something, a sky-ripping scream that was still far away but one that got closer all the time. ‘The war cry of a Sky-Chariot’ he thought scornfully, the pathetic name that Satan and the fallen that had been exiled to Hell had coined for what was simply the noise of a human jet engine. If Satan had bothered to stay in touch with humans, studied them, followed their development, he too would have been warned of the way their knowledge and understanding had suddenly mushroomed out. Quite apart from anything else, Satan would still be alive and ruling Hell, not dead and buried with his followers living under human rule.

It was time to do something about these aircraft. Uriel made a lazy turn and headed directly towards them. He gathered his energy, redirecting it from the assault on those beneath him, concentrating it into a triumphant trumpet-call that would hammer the approaching aircraft from the sky. He had heard how the lesser Angels had swept human aircraft from the skies with their trumpeting, rumor said that almost fifty human aircraft had been destroyed in that one fight. Now, the humans would see what the infinitely greater trumpeting of an Archangel could achieve. He summoned his strength, concentrated it into a single great call and bellowed out its note.

It was as if the aircraft had sensed his purpose, for as he had turned to attack them, they had reversed course and fled away from him, their tails glowing bright red. They escaped unscathed, Uriel had the odd impression that his trumpet blast had actually fallen behind them as they fled to safety. He trumpeted again, this time in triumph for had he not engaged the human aircraft in single combat and forced them to flee in disgrace? He set off in pursuit, knowing it was futile since they were heading north far faster than he could fly.

It was then that the constant itching in his skin was replaced by a burning agony that convinced him that he was on fire. Instinctively, he glanced below and behind him to see four great streaks of fire closing in on him. The thoughts flashed through his mind, he had been tricked, fooled, lured into an ambush and he had but a split second to save himself before the missiles tore home. Faster than he had ever done in his life, far faster than was theoretically possible, he opened a portal and it enveloped him. It slammed shut behind him just a moment before the four PAC-3 missiles tore into the sky where it had been.

2nd Battery, 365th Air Defense Battalion, El Paso, Texas. May 2009

The thundering explosions lit the sky above El Paso, the four Patriot missiles expending themselves in an exemplary display of reliability. The question was, had they actually hit their target or simply exploded at the end of their flight. It was an old question and one that had confused more than a few debriefings.

“Did we get him?” It was Corporal Baughn speaking but he was voicing the question held in the minds of all.”

“There’s no reports that a rain of overcooked and slightly-used rump steaks is descending on El Paso so it doesn’t seem so.” A grim laugh ran around the battery control room.

“The DIMO(N) net is reporting Sir. They have a very small portal opening a split second before the missiles exploded. It was there for a tiny fraction of a second only but the position they have is close to our intercept point. I’d say the thing got away.”

Lieutenant Becerra sighed. “We missed him. We’ve never seen a Baldrick do that before.” He stopped for a second and went to the door of the van. In the distance, the sound of emergency service vehicle sirens wailing was clearly distinguishable. “He didn’t miss us though.”

[The Vortex Empire]

Interesting. Was he still able to kill people because they weren't wearing their tin foil hats, or because he muscled through them?

[Chris OFarrell]

God I love Lugasharmanaska. She has spunk, she does!

And I think it might be time to crash the ABL program into super high gear, doing whatever it takes to get a laser powerful enough to scorch an Angel with little warning. These Angels are just playing it too cagey, even after the Vipers lured him into a SAM trap, Uriel still had time (and the brains) to hit a portal and get out...

Still, I wonder what Uriel is going to make of this, he has failed Yahweh's most holy command to lay waste to the greatest cities of the US.

Even more interestingly, he had to open a portal SOUTH of the US and fly up, rather then just opening one above the city. The Demons who attached Sheffield and Detroit also, IIRC, had to open up a portal some distance away and fly in, I wonder if all that background EM radiation might be doing something to the formation of a personal scale portal...

[tim31]

"Uriel paused, remembering the times when he had seized upon one of the great passenger aircraft the humans used and snuffed out the lives of its crew leaving the aircraft to crash."

An Air France Flight 447 reference?

Pity the good guys didn't get him; I suppose that would have been too easy.

[Lonestar]

An Air France Flight 447 reference?

Look at the dates.

[Pelranius]

Possibly that Egypt Air one back nearly a decade ago?

I guess we'll just have to wait for Lugaharmanaska's version of the Celestial War.

Uriel is going to have to talk very fast. More likely, Michael will smooth things over (yah yah has turned out to be remarkably swayable, just like Queenie from Blackadder the Second) for Uriel and send him out to keep on hitting our cities until his luck runs out. After all, it weakens us (though not really on any noticeable scale) while its not as if Uriel will stay around long enough to snitch Michael out to Queenie or the Big 15.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I wonder if the loss of Uriel's power is more fundamental. Yaweh draws power from worship, largely from those in heaven but perhaps he does (or did) draw power from worshippers on earth. It could be that Yaweh empowers his angels with some of that energy, but for some reason he is unable to supply as much power as he once did, so Uriel doesn't have the energy resources he used to.

Before The Message there were (by some estimates) around two billion Christians on earth. That's worship which is no longer happening. It could be that Yaweh isn't even aware of it, or that he's hiding the fact that he's losing power.

[Pelranius]

I wonder if the loss of Uriel's power is more fundamental. Yaweh draws power from worship, largely from those in heaven but perhaps he does (or did) draw power from worshippers on earth. It could be that Yaweh empowers his angels with some of that energy, but for some reason he is unable to supply as much power as he once did, so Uriel doesn't have the energy resources he used to.

Before The Message there were (by some estimates) around two billion Christians on earth. That's worship which is no longer happening. It could be that Yaweh isn't even aware of it, or that he's hiding the fact that he's losing power.

What about that race of primitives in another dimension that Queenie decided would be more malleable to his rule?

Though it would take a while for them to start worshipping him enmass.

he also got the worship of the Jews and Muslims, which probably adds on at least over a billion to the two billion Christians (of course, not all adherents are equally devout).

That brings us to the another question. Does devotion on the part of the individual count for the quality of the praise from that individual?

[Darth Wong]

I wonder if the loss of Uriel's power is more fundamental. Yaweh draws power from worship, largely from those in heaven but perhaps he does (or did) draw power from worshippers on earth. It could be that Yaweh empowers his angels with some of that energy, but for some reason he is unable to supply as much power as he once did, so Uriel doesn't have the energy resources he used to.

Before The Message there were (by some estimates) around two billion Christians on earth. That's worship which is no longer happening. It could be that Yaweh isn't even aware of it, or that he's hiding the fact that he's losing power.

Who said anything about Uriel losing his power? The fact that he's losing his effectiveness could be due to widespread deployment of countermeasures such as aluminum foil hats and home cladding, rather than any loss of power on his part.

[XaLEv]

A perhaps daft idea about securing entry to Heaven. Basically, attempt to engineer a repeat of the engagement in this chapter, except one of the missiles is carrying a nuclear device, meant to pass through the portal and initiate on the other side while it is still open in order to cause it to rebound larger, with killing Uriel and making a mess on the other side as side benefits.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Who said anything about Uriel losing his power? The fact that he's losing his effectiveness could be due to widespread deployment of countermeasures such as aluminum foil hats and home cladding, rather than any loss of power on his part.

Maybe it's me, but the way that it's written, and his effectiveness in third-world countries which may have fewer countermeasures, it just SEEMS to me like there's a problem with him. I have nothing concrete to support the notion, and Stuart hasn't given me any inside info.