An Open Letter To Stephan Harper

[Norade]

My Mom sent this chain e-mail to me and I thought it was worth posting here to see what people might think. I myself think it's a laughably bad idea that would never fly, but I've seen worse ideas before as well.

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Canada's economy. Instead of giving billions of dollars to banks and car companies, that will squander
the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan:

There are about 20 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. Twenty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

2) They MUST buy a new Canadian CAR. Twenty million cars ordered -
Auto Industry fixed.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing
Crisis fixed.

4) They must send their kids to school / college /university - Crime
rate fixed

5) Buy $50 of alcohol / tobacco / petrol a week... there's your money
back in duty / tax etc

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back
their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances.

If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not, please disregard.

EDIT: Sorry it's late here and I'm not sure why I though this was a SLAM topic, so could a mod move this to the right place.

[Surlethe]

I'm on it. Moving to N&P.

[SCRawl]

My Mom sent this chain e-mail to me and I thought it was worth posting here to see what people might think. I myself think it's a laughably bad idea that would never fly, but I've seen worse ideas before as well.

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Canada's economy. Instead of giving billions of dollars to banks and car companies, that will squander
the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan:

There are about 20 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. Twenty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

2) They MUST buy a new Canadian CAR. Twenty million cars ordered -
Auto Industry fixed.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing
Crisis fixed.

4) They must send their kids to school / college /university - Crime
rate fixed

5) Buy $50 of alcohol / tobacco / petrol a week... there's your money
back in duty / tax etc

It can't get any easier than that!

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back
their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances.

If you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know. If not, please disregard.

EDIT: Sorry it's late here and I'm not sure why I though this was a SLAM topic, so could a mod move this to the right place.

Wow, I'm...stunned. Just a quick hit, but I'm pretty sure there aren't 20 million 50+ people in the Canadian work force. We only have about 33 million people here, and I find it hard to believe that more than 2/3 of them are (a) over 50, and (b) working. Even if there were, then this is $20 trillion, which is an enormous sum for Canada. Where would it come from?

And even if we had the money, and the demographics were right, you can't give people money with these kinds of strings attached -- especially for item #2, which would be considered protectionist spending.

#3 won't fix anything, and #4 is so silly on several levels that it doesn't even pass the laugh test. And #5? Yeah, sure, make back $20 trillion a few bucks at a time.

It fails at basic math and logic.

[PeZook]

Feh. Does it even warrant comment? How much money went to the banks from the Canadian government? How much was actual liquid money, rather than guarantees, debt cancellations and other similar measures?

Does she even know that Canada's entire GDP is 1.3 trillion?

Even if you wanted to give 1 million people 1 million $$$ each, you'd need to seize and liquify an entire year's worth of production and salaries to pay for it. Brilliant!

[Lagmonster]

This letter could probably feature as part of a guided tour of the World of Stupid.

The Government in Canada is scared shitless of the impending departure of the boomers as it is. Retiring them sooner is precisely the opposite of what government HR planning currently involves for the simple reason that government, as a service provider to the public, will be horribly understaffed and overworked even if they engage in an orgy of a hiring blitz and stick every wino from here to Vancouver behind a desk.

Our moron here seems to think that there are actually 20 million people out there who are underemployed and could be moved up into senior positions with no service interruptions. Stats Canada says there's around 33,000,000 Canadians (including, I assume, people who are retired or below working age). Their June 5th unemployment stats release claims an 8.4% unemployment rate. keepjobsincanada.ca, an arguably alarmist website that I just googled, trumpets 1.6 million unemployed Canadians based on this data. However, Stats Canada says here that there are over 5.7 million full-time employed Canadians over the age of 45. Assuming all these numbers are on the surface what they seem to be, does anyone feel like we can get 1.6 million unemployed people to do the work of over 5 million people who've been promoted so they can pay for the welfare of the 5 million people who've been forcibly retired before they could earn their full pension?

[PeZook]

Our moron here seems to think that there are actually 20 million people out there who are underemployed and could be moved up into senior positions with no service interruptions. Stats Canada says there's around 33,000,000 Canadians (including, I assume, people who are retired or below working age). Their June 5th unemployment stats release claims an 8.4% unemployment rate. keepjobsincanada.ca, an arguably alarmist website that I just googled, trumpets 1.6 million unemployed Canadians based on this data. However, Stats Canada says here that there are over 5.7 million full-time employed Canadians over the age of 45. Assuming all these numbers are on the surface what they seem to be, does anyone feel like we can get 1.6 million unemployed people to do the work of over 5 million people who've been promoted so they can pay for the welfare of the 5 million people who've been forcibly retired before they could earn their full pension?

The problems don't stop there: people in that age bracket typically occupy management positions or work in high-skill jobs (either as craftsmen, scientists, doctors, lawyers etc.)

Even if you round up every single unemployed man and woman in the country, how are they going to fill those positions without the necessary qualifications and talents? Magic?

The biggest problem, of course, is still the total lack of maths, even simple multiplication, and fact-checking. How many Canadians are there, again?

How idiots think they can solve complex problems without giving their simplistic "solutions" even the most cursory of examinations is incredibly baffling.

[Solauren]

This looks ALOT like a letter I saw to George W Bush, then Barack Obama.

This is a disguised crap chain letter, nothing more.

[Lagmonster]

This guy seems to have a real hard on for punishing the elderly. Clearly he has no problem with pushing people out of employment who have not earned their full pensions, or who may still be supporting a household of young adults, or who may be critical staff to a particular region or operation. No, they're old, so they must be holding up progress, so fuck 'em. I hope this guy remembers to commit suicide when he turns 50 so he won't siphon away public funds from useful people in the form of health care and support benefits.

Oh, and:

2) They MUST buy a new Canadian CAR. Twenty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.

I wonder what qualifies as Canadian to him. Maybe we should all buy Spyder-3 roadsters or Zenn minis or Bombardier Embrios (although that would be fucking cool).

[Enigma]

Our moron here seems to think that there are actually 20 million people out there who are underemployed and could be moved up into senior positions with no service interruptions. Stats Canada says there's around 33,000,000 Canadians (including, I assume, people who are retired or below working age). Their June 5th unemployment stats release claims an 8.4% unemployment rate. keepjobsincanada.ca, an arguably alarmist website that I just googled, trumpets 1.6 million unemployed Canadians based on this data. However, Stats Canada says here that there are over 5.7 million full-time employed Canadians over the age of 45. Assuming all these numbers are on the surface what they seem to be, does anyone feel like we can get 1.6 million unemployed people to do the work of over 5 million people who've been promoted so they can pay for the welfare of the 5 million people who've been forcibly retired before they could earn their full pension?

The problems don't stop there: people in that age bracket typically occupy management positions or work in high-skill jobs (either as craftsmen, scientists, doctors, lawyers etc.)

Even if you round up every single unemployed man and woman in the country, how are they going to fill those positions without the necessary qualifications and talents? Magic?

The biggest problem, of course, is still the total lack of maths, even simple multiplication, and fact-checking. How many Canadians are there, again?

How idiots think they can solve complex problems without giving their simplistic "solutions" even the most cursory of examinations is incredibly baffling.

Do you know how many cabbies and other minimum skilled jobs have university degrees and so forth but can't get the career of choice because companies and the governments won't hire them because they do not have canadian experience? Bump those people up to replace some of the aging boomers and the unemployed can fill in the roles as a cabbie\cleaner\etc..

It might not completely solve the problem but it is a start.

[PeZook]

Do you know how many cabbies and other minimum skilled jobs have university degrees and so forth but can't get the career of choice because companies and the governments won't hire them because they do not have canadian experience?

No, I don't. How many?

[SCRawl]

Do you know how many cabbies and other minimum skilled jobs have university degrees and so forth but can't get the career of choice because companies and the governments won't hire them because they do not have canadian experience?

No, I don't. How many?

I don't know the number either, but it's a real problem. It's difficult for some immigrants to get their professional credentials recognized here, and that failure can lead to underemployment.

Like others have pointed out, though, there are nothing like 20 million underemployed sub-50-year-old cab drivers ready to step in and take over the jobs that would be magically created by this (ahem) concerned citizen's plan.

This guy seems to have a real hard on for punishing the elderly.

Well, to be fair, he is proposing to give them $1 million each, presumably tax free. That's a pretty nice golden handshake, even if you can never work again. This is not to say that it's a well thought-out plan, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as "turn all old people into Soylent Green so I can get a good job too."

[Rye]

My Mom sent this chain e-mail to me and I thought it was worth posting here to see what people might think. I myself think it's a laughably bad idea that would never fly, but I've seen worse ideas before as well.

Without knowing too much about Canada's situation, on face value it sounds absolutely fucking nuts.

Please find below my suggestion for fixing Canada's economy. Instead of giving billions of dollars to banks and car companies, that will squander
the money on lavish parties and unearned bonuses, use the following plan:

There are about 20 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

Assuming this is accurate, that's $20,000,000,000,000 required. Where's that coming from?

1) They MUST retire. Twenty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

Having an opening doesn't mean it can be filled immediately. Take senior positions in healthcare that require lots of experience for instance. Some professionals are very much more in demand than others, and there's no reason to believe that the 50 year olds are evenly spread across the job market.

2) They MUST buy a new Canadian CAR. Twenty million cars ordered -
Auto Industry fixed.

Extremely wasteful and merely robbing Peter to pay Paul, since they'll be spending that 20 trillion. You might as well just socialise the Auto industry and get it to produce cars and parts to support the existing population. This is adding a fat load of production and forced demand that will merely delay auto industry problems until everyone's bought a car. At that point, the auto industry will be literally worthless outside of spare parts and the occasional write off. The environmental consequences of such industrial production aren't something to sneer at either.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing
Crisis fixed.

I'm unconvinced that tax money for everyone over 50 to pay their mortgages off would fix things. It looks just like the above problems, though I'm too lazy to really examine it.

4) They must send their kids to school / college /university - Crime
rate fixed

I kinda doubt most criminals are from families with parents that are over 50. Chucking a load of criminals, who are by and large, lazy and stupid, into college will not fix crime rates, it will just be a massive waste of money. College is not for everyone and teaching many of these people practical skills or using them for manual labour would be better.

5) Buy $50 of alcohol / tobacco / petrol a week... there's your money
back in duty / tax etc

Crass overconsumption to try and claw back these insane, avoidable expenses is so backward I don't know where to begin. You want something sustainable and conservative, not this.

P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back
their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances.

That'll be a flash in the pan compared to the 20 trillion dollar sum he's plucked out of the air.

[Enigma]

Do you know how many cabbies and other minimum skilled jobs have university degrees and so forth but can't get the career of choice because companies and the governments won't hire them because they do not have canadian experience?

No, I don't. How many?

Don't have a definite answer but it is quite a bit. I've listened and talked to a few of them besides watching programs like W-5 and the news on the subject. Canada wants educated immigrants but is unwilling to hire them unless they start over in Canada.

[Lagmonster]

Do you know how many cabbies and other minimum skilled jobs have university degrees and so forth but can't get the career of choice because companies and the governments won't hire them because they do not have canadian experience?

The federal government maintains programs through Service Canada, HRSDC in the form of the Foreign Credentials Recognition program, not to mention funding for free employment finding and job services for immigrants. If someone tells you that they have a foreign doctorate and are being passed over for jobs against similarly-equipped Canadians, I'd bet you that the reasons are either a) language barrier - particularly important in high-responsibility positions, b) poor experience or experience in non-regulated jobs (or they WERE assessed and their credentials were found to be less than the Canadian equivalent), or c) prejudice.

[Norade]

Wow I can't believe that I was so tired when I posted that I missed that 20 million people were supposed to be booted from work in a nation of only 35 or so million. The $20 Trillion needed to pay them is also a wee bit laughable before we get to anything else.

[Kodiak]

If you have a person who retires at age 50 and give them $1million requiring that they pay off a house, buy a car, and take up smoking, how could they be expected to live for another 30 years on what's left? Are they retiring with full pensions and health benefits?

[Norade]

They'd better not be or we'd end up spending more than we're getting back to cover their pensions for an extra 15 years, not to mention the health coverage as well.

[Singular Intellect]

I got this same letter in an e-mail from my grandmother the other day. I sent her a quick reply, asking her where the ten trillion dollars was going to come from (it was ten million people, not twenty), especially since Canada's yearly GDP isn't even two trillion.

Didn't get a reply.

[Darth Wong]

I got this same letter in an e-mail from my grandmother the other day. I sent her a quick reply, asking her where the ten trillion dollars was going to come from (it was ten million people, not twenty), especially since Canada's yearly GDP isn't even two trillion.

Didn't get a reply.

E-mail political chain letters are written BY retards, FOR retards. This is nothing new.

[Phillip Hone]

I believe there was an American doctor named Francis Townsend who suggested something vaguely similar to this during the great depression. His plan was a little bit more reasonable than this, however.

edit - I mention him because IIRC he got pretty powerful at one point, and was even able to become a minor threat to FDR.

[Singular Intellect]

I got this same letter in an e-mail from my grandmother the other day. I sent her a quick reply, asking her where the ten trillion dollars was going to come from (it was ten million people, not twenty), especially since Canada's yearly GDP isn't even two trillion.

Didn't get a reply.

E-mail political chain letters are written BY retards, FOR retards. This is nothing new.

True, but sometimes it just fucking boggles my mind that simplistic multiplication seems beyond these people's grasp. For fuck's sake, ten million people given a million dollars each is just a tad more then 'billions of dollars'. We're dealing with nice, easy, round numbers that only involved adding six zeros; you'd expect young kids to figure this shit out, never mind adults.

(Then again, maybe my standards are just too high...perhaps I can blame hanging around this site too much. At times I feel partially retarded because I'm not following calculus or other advanced fields of the sciences. )

[Uraniun235]

If you have a person who retires at age 50 and give them $1million requiring that they pay off a house, buy a car, and take up smoking, how could they be expected to live for another 30 years on what's left? Are they retiring with full pensions and health benefits?

It doesn't have to be smoking, petrol's permitted. So there's that - you don't have to smoke, you can just drive all over the place.

Really though, a big part of it is that the house would be paid, the car would be paid, so monthly payments would be relatively low. ~$600,000 isn't a huge amount to live off of for thirty years, but you could stick most of that in certificates of deposit (or whatever their Canadian counterpart is) (probably want to use multiple banks so you get full insurance on all your deposits) and start generating interest off of it.


That said this is still an immensely retarded plan. I can think of way better things to do with ten trillion dollars.