N.Korea threatens US (Jealous of Iran's attention?)

[Solauren]

NKorea threatens US as Washington, allies watch for signs of another missile launch

By Hyung-Jin Kim, The Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days.

Off China's coast, a U.S. destroyer was tailing a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons to Myanmar in what could be the first test of U.N. sanctions passed to punish the nation for an underground nuclear test last month.

The Kang Nam left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago with the USS John S. McCain close behind. The ship, accused of transporting banned goods in the past, is believed bound for Myanmar, according to South Korean and U.S. officials.

The new U.N. Security Council resolution requires member states to seek permission to inspect suspicious cargo. North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to provoke another Korean War.

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.

The warning came on the eve of the 59th anniversary of the start of the three-year Korean War, which ended in a truce in 1953, not a peace treaty, leaving the peninsula in state of war.

The U.S. has 28,500 troops in South Korea to protect against an outbreak of hostilities.

Tensions have been high since North Korea launched a long-range rocket in April and then conducted its second underground atomic test on May 25.

Reacting to U.N. condemnation of that test, North Korea walked away from nuclear disarmament talks and warned it would fire a long-range missile.

North Korea has banned ships from the waters off its east coast starting Thursday through July 10 for military exercises, Japan's Coast Guard said.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Wednesday that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometres) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometres) during the no-sail period.

A senior South Korean government official said the no-sail ban is believed connected to North Korean plans to fire short-or mid-range missiles. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing department policy.

U.S. defence and counterproliferation officials in Washington said they also expected the North to launch short-to medium-range missiles. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.

South Korea will expedite the introduction of high-tech unmanned aerial surveillance systems and "bunker-buster" bombs in response to North Korea's provocations, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing unidentified ruling party members.

Meanwhile, a flurry of diplomatic efforts were under way to try getting North Korea to return to disarmament talks.

Russia's top nuclear envoy, Alexei Borodavkin, said after meeting with his South Korean counterpart that Moscow is open to other formats for discussion since Pyongyang has pulled out of formal six-nation negotiations.

In Beijing, top U.S. and Chinese defence officials also discussed North Korea. U.S. Defence Undersecretary Michele Flournoy was heading next to Tokyo and Seoul for talks.

South Korea has proposed high-level "consultations" to discuss North Korea with the U.S., Russia, China and Japan.

Is North Korea really this stupid? Are they trying to piss the everyone off?

[Ma Deuce]

Are they trying to piss the everyone off?

Yeah, actually they are, because keeping the world mad at them keeps North Korea isolated, which is exactly what their leadership wants, because isolation ensures their grip on power. They know nobody is actually going to attack them unless they strike first, and given North Korea's autarkic economy, there isn't much anyone can do to economically harm them either.

[Pelranius]

Are they trying to piss the everyone off?

Yeah, actually they are, because keeping the world mad at them keeps North Korea isolated, which is exactly what their leadership wants, because isolation ensures their grip on power. They know nobody is actually going to attack them unless they strike first, and given North Korea's autarkic economy, there isn't much anyone can do to economically harm them either.

Actually, their economy would collapse if China or South Korea were to stop shipping food and fuel to them.

However, the threat of a North Korean collapse is a better incentive than the DPRK nuclear weapons program for deterring invasion or a complete embargo because neither China nor South Korea wants to deal with the millions of refugees who would be displaced by a North Korean collapse.

[Broomstick]

Didn't Batshit Leader already threaten Hawaii last week? Wipe us off the map? Not likely. Maybe they have something that can hit Hawaii, maybe. With that possibility in mind military ships and missile interceptors have been dispatched to Hawaii. Last I heard he plans to launch on the 4th of July because, I guess, he figures that will piss us off more than just simply dropping a bomb on us on some random date.

IF -and that's a huge IF - a missile hits Hawaii I rather expect the US to open an economy-sized can of whup-ass on Batshit Leader, whether or not that is truly a good idea or in our best interests. On the other hand, the international community doesn't seem to have too much trouble with a county attacked on their territory going to kick the shit out of the instigator. Especially if the instigator 'fesses up to the deed.

But I expect that any missile fired is going to fall far short. But... you never know. Better yet we knock it out of the sky. Of course, if we do succeed in shooting it down Batshit Leader will still probably announce success to his proper-- er, people.

[The Romulan Republic]

I doubt they're actually going to shoot at Hawaii. Am I being too optimistic when I believe that the North Korean regiem is not that suicidal?

[Aratech]

I doubt they're actually going to shoot at Hawaii. Am I being too optimistic when I believe that the North Korean regiem is not that suicidal?

I'll believe it when I see it. My gut reaction is that as was said, Kimmy and Co. are trying to remain isolationist and retain their choke hold on power, as well as possibly trying to get more aid sent their way as some sort of bribe.

If, if such an attack were to occur, it would likely spell the end of the NK regime, possibly much of NK itself if the attack is NBC in nature, as the entire geopolitical landscape of the past 75 years has been built upon the concept of WMD retaliation. And please forgive me if that sounds like Internet Tough Guy postulation (tm). Fact is, that Kim seems to be sane, and most likely doesn't want to lose his comfy position in life just for the sake of dick waving.

[Stark]

Didn't Batshit Leader already threaten Hawaii last week? Wipe us off the map? Not likely. Maybe they have something that can hit Hawaii, maybe. With that possibility in mind military ships and missile interceptors have been dispatched to Hawaii. Last I heard he plans to launch on the 4th of July because, I guess, he figures that will piss us off more than just simply dropping a bomb on us on some random date.

IF -and that's a huge IF - a missile hits Hawaii I rather expect the US to open an economy-sized can of whup-ass on Batshit Leader, whether or not that is truly a good idea or in our best interests. On the other hand, the international community doesn't seem to have too much trouble with a county attacked on their territory going to kick the shit out of the instigator. Especially if the instigator 'fesses up to the deed.

But I expect that any missile fired is going to fall far short. But... you never know. Better yet we knock it out of the sky. Of course, if we do succeed in shooting it down Batshit Leader will still probably announce success to his proper-- er, people.

Posturing aside, what level of badass violence do you think the US will deliver to NK if they fire a missile that reaches Hawaii and then explodes harmlessly off the coast? They are in the sabre-rattling business, not the getting killed by everyone business.

[Broomstick]

Proximity would have some effect on the response, but let's call it a near-miss - if it went down from a missile intercept the US yells "Neener! Neener!" and that's about it. If it gets past our missile defense/intercept and the only reason it doesn't hit an island is due to malfunction/luck/bad engineering then the response might be the same as for a direct hit, it will certainly put the US back onto high alert status, and we'll be sending more troops to the DMZ as a minimum response.

[Stark]

No, I said they fire a missile that explodes harmlessly; a simple demonstration of range and capability both for their population and the world (as opposed to an actual attack). Hell, it doesn't even have to go to Hawaii; any point at a similar distance, to show that they have the capability.

I've actually missed the internet strategist stuff; I hope NK continues to posture so more faceless nobodies can describe in detail the responses they expect/hope for.

[Broomstick]

No, I said they fire a missile that explodes harmlessly; a simple demonstration of range and capability both for their population and the world (as opposed to an actual attack).

If it "explodes harmlessly" but within sight of a Hawaiian island there is still the possibility of the US treating it as an actual attack. Sorry, wasn't I clear on that? The closer it "explodes harmlessly" the more likely that the reaction will be at that level.

Hell, it doesn't even have to go to Hawaii; any point at a similar distance, to show that they have the capability.

Then next time the Norks start posturing the US goes on a war footing. If the US is hit there will be retaliation. If the US is not hit they'll demand sanctions and more sanctions and attempt to apply non-violent pressure of various sorts, mostly economic.

[Uraniun235]

What the hell more sanctions can we apply that haven't been already? I'm pretty sure blockade and pressuring China/South Korea to cease their food/oil shipments (which is a pretty long shot, they're not likely to even consider that) are about the only things left. We implement those and we might as well just start bombing their artillery positions while we still have some surprise on our side.

[Broomstick]

We don't need surprise. We are quite capable of utterly destroying North Korean. The difficulty is that we wish to spare the civilian population - that's what complicates matters. Simple obliteration is easy, selective culling of those responsible is what is difficult.

This is why charges that the US is some sort of conquering despot are stupid. If we were that sort of nation we would have started taking over the world after WWII, when we were the only powerful nation not devastated by war and still the only folks with nukes. We didn't. In fact we gave Japan back to the Japanese after we demanded their absolute surrender, which we didn't have to do and which no one pressured us to do. Yes, we do influence other nations, both intentionally and otherwise, but that's not the same as conquering them. We do meddle where we shouldn't (Iraq being only the most example) but aren't in an expansionist mode. I have no doubt that many nations view this as a sign of weakness, which is part of the reason we have tinpot dictators threatening to lob missiles at us.

(And yes, the above is a simplification of international politics, but I didn't feel like writing a book instead of a post)

[Guardsman Bass]

Didn't Batshit Leader already threaten Hawaii last week? Wipe us off the map? Not likely. Maybe they have something that can hit Hawaii, maybe. With that possibility in mind military ships and missile interceptors have been dispatched to Hawaii. Last I heard he plans to launch on the 4th of July because, I guess, he figures that will piss us off more than just simply dropping a bomb on us on some random date.

IF -and that's a huge IF - a missile hits Hawaii I rather expect the US to open an economy-sized can of whup-ass on Batshit Leader, whether or not that is truly a good idea or in our best interests. On the other hand, the international community doesn't seem to have too much trouble with a county attacked on their territory going to kick the shit out of the instigator. Especially if the instigator 'fesses up to the deed.

But I expect that any missile fired is going to fall far short. But... you never know. Better yet we knock it out of the sky. Of course, if we do succeed in shooting it down Batshit Leader will still probably announce success to his proper-- er, people.

Posturing aside, what level of badass violence do you think the US will deliver to NK if they fire a missile that reaches Hawaii and then explodes harmlessly off the coast? They are in the sabre-rattling business, not the getting killed by everyone business.

Most likely, we'd see an escalation of US efforts in the area, such as a movement from merely shadowing North Korean ships suspected of carrying weapons parts and technology to open search and seizure.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

What they are really doing is to distract themselves from the problem that is simmering away, which is: Who the hell is to replace the Great Leader? Is this kid the Great Leader chose a good one? And let the factional fighting ensue.

[Shinova]

Technically called Dear Leader.... which I think sounds stupid.

Theory on one article went that it's all a ploy to get some kind of concession from the world and put credit for that on the kid's head to help legitimize his succession.

[Uraniun235]

We don't need surprise. We are quite capable of utterly destroying North Korean. The difficulty is that we wish to spare the civilian population - that's what complicates matters. Simple obliteration is easy, selective culling of those responsible is what is difficult.

I think we would need surprise if we wanted to prevent a lot of artillery shells from landing on Seoul.

[Broomstick]

We don't need surprise. We are quite capable of utterly destroying North Korean. The difficulty is that we wish to spare the civilian population - that's what complicates matters. Simple obliteration is easy, selective culling of those responsible is what is difficult.

I think we would need surprise if we wanted to prevent a lot of artillery shells from landing on Seoul.

As I said - obliteration is easy. Only killing selected targets - and as an addition, avoiding civilian/bystander deaths - is the hard part

[Uraniun235]

The point is, I think the only sanctions left to implement would probably be those likely to provoke North Korea into attacking South Korea, or (if we were lucky) would 'merely' lead to the starvation of many thousands (or millions) of North Koreans. You said that if they don't hit the US we'd try to apply more pressure on them, but the thing is, we're already applying maximum pressure. There's no room for escalation between here and dropping bombs on North Korea, so we either grit our teeth and content ourselves with the pressure we're keeping on them already, or we start dropping bombs on the North and take a piss in everyone's Cheerios as the economy spirals even further into the shitter because now there's twenty million refugees hanging off of China and South Korea.


Basically, I don't think a "didn't hit" would result in a US escalation, I think the only thing that would really provoke further action out of us would be an actual direct hit on US or Japanese (or maybe South Korean, depending on what the South wants) soil.

[Mr. Coffee]

If it's a didn't hit that results in a confirmed kill from an SM-3 equipped ship I think the most you're going to see is us laughing at the NORKs and some sale's guys from Raytheon taking orders for a more SM-3s.

[KroLazuxy_87]

I think we're overlooking what China or South Korea might do in the event of a near miss/hit of a missile on U.S. soil. The North Korean regime has already stressed its relationship with China. Since China's economy is still growing due to the US's insatiable appetite for Wal-Mart's shitty child-made products, we could put pressure on them to put pressure on the regime.

On the other side of that though, we can't afford to piss off China because they've been bank rolling us since Bush came into office and sent our country into the deepest debt EVER from the surplus that he inherited.

I'm not sure what kind of sway we have with South Korea(other than our soldiers help maintain the DMZ) but we may be able to convince them to put some pressure on the NK regime.

While I do believe that the "Dear Leader" isn't interested in losing the power he has, I also believe he's detached from reality. Having his people celebrate his birthday everyday with no cost spared, and his tendency to keep Hennesy in business, there is something obviously wrong with his judgment.

[The Guid]

Whilst I am not an expert on China wouldn't an attack on US soil by North Korea also set the Chinese into a far harsher position against North Korea. China doesn't want the US provoked into military action on their doorstep - as people have suggested they at least do not want the refugees. They're also not all insane in China; even despotic governments often don't like war and random killing.