Stormtrooper rifles

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-08 07:35pm

Yes...he doesn't , but then he's spewing Bullshit.

Literally his word on Stormies being clones of Jango are bullshit unless he goes and alters all of OT...thus who really cares aside from people who'll think this gives them so unknown power over us in some conversation?

Ben Ingram · Post by **Ben Ingram** » 2003-02-08 07:40pm

Yes, it will suck, but it's gonna happen, like it or not.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-08 07:43pm

Uh...he's going to REDO ALL OF OT(I mean really he makes one off hand comment doesn't mean he's going to go back and make the Special-Special Edition)

I mean think of the context fans take his Boba Fett is dead.

Ben Ingram · Post by **Ben Ingram** » 2003-02-08 07:47pm

Yeah, I know. I'm with you, it'd be a utter load of crap if stormies were clones, but I'm 99% certain they will be.

And I really doubt there will be a special special edition, tho I think there probably will be redos of Episodes 1-3 in about ten years or so.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-08 07:56pm

xianseeker wrote:Hello all. Newbie here, so feel free to flame away if I say something stupid.

Anyway, I've read the thread about the abilities of stormtroopers by the sycophant guy (Ben something, I think). Anyway, I've perused the main st vs. sw sight and not seen this subject yet.

My point is, Stormtroopers seem to have really bad aim. Not only in Tatoinne, but on the original death star also. I'm sure that many of you have played the Star Wars computer games, and the rifles that the ST have are lousy when it come to accuracy. If the games are part of the continuity, doesn't this mean that they really do shoot bad.

ps, I seem to recall that in the Star Wars Galaxy game (which is cannon, unless I'm much mistaken), stormtrooper helmets obscure vision and make accuracy difficult, but I'm not positive on this.

1. Games are NOT canon, except in terms of story when they are the lowest kind of official. Nice try.

2. Stormtroopers on the original Death Star did not exhibit poor aim, but EXCEPTIONAL discipline. The ability to draw hostile fire while under orders to allow an enemy to escape is extraordinary, and has never been observed in real life militaries, except with special forces under very unusual circumstances.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-08 07:58pm

Ben Ingram wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm with you, it'd be a utter load of crap if stormies were clones, but I'm 99% certain they will be.

And I really doubt there will be a special special edition, tho I think there probably will be redos of Episodes 1-3 in about ten years or so.

Ummm they could be clones...they are more likely a combo unit.

But they will not be Jango Fett's clones until Lucas redos all of OT.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-08 08:00pm

Ben Ingram wrote:Look, people, I UNDERSTAND that its going against ANH, but Lucas obviously doesnt. You dont have to point out the differences to me, I know; but he doesnt.

You don't have to explain to us things like how lasers wouldn't get through UFP shields, but guess what? You did anyway.

Sorry, Ben, the fact that you have money riding on something, or bet one way, does not make it true. He MIGHT make the stormtroopers clones, or he might not, but we are NOT in a position to speculate on such matters.

Ben Ingram · Post by **Ben Ingram** » 2003-02-08 08:03pm

The way I see it, hes not going to change anything in Eps. III. I think he's already created in AotC his stormtroopers. Granted, this is speculation, but so are the arguements saying they'll be recruits.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-08 08:05pm

Ben Ingram wrote:The way I see it, hes not going to change anything in Eps. III. I think he's already created in AotC his stormtroopers. Granted, this is speculation, but so are the arguements saying they'll be recruits.

Bullshit. Arguments that they are recruits are based on EU testimony. If he doesn't say anything about it in Ep. III, they're either going to be an all-recruit, or a mixed unit due to official material.

Ben Ingram · Post by **Ben Ingram** » 2003-02-08 08:13pm

Exactly where does it say this? According to the EU, I had assumed most ST's were impressed, not recruited.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-08 08:15pm

Anderson's first series(can't remembver name right now)

It's the third book where Kyp goes to the Stormtrooper's training planet to find his brother.

I know someone will provide the names but that's where one of the bigger Stormies=recruits came from.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-08 08:16pm

Ben Ingram wrote:Exactly where does it say this? According to the EU, I had assumed most ST's were impressed, not recruited.

Extremely unlikely. Storm Troopers are both shock troops and closer to elite status. You do not get elite troops from conscripts and impressed soldiers. The EU also states that Storm Troopers are quite rare compared to standard army. Imperial Army is filled with conscripts and impressed people. Storm Troopers have a mix of Clones and volunteers.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-08 08:18pm

Ben Ingram wrote:Exactly where does it say this? According to the EU, I had assumed most ST's were impressed, not recruited.

Read Tales from the Empire, or Jedi Search. Both demonstrate that there are people who volunteer for Stormtrooper service, including General Veers.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-09 01:30pm

I know we've heard all the other arguments before.. but perhaps, perhaps, just as was theorized in the official Dune history about the Sardaukar, and despite Imperial propaganda, the funding and quality of training had decreased in the latter years and overconfidence was burding their ranks.

Of course, you'd think with the Rebel problem on their hands the Empire would have INCREASED funding.. but who knows. Maybe all that time spent on super weapons and grand schemes caused other things to fall by the wayside....

Probably just as weak an excuse as any. One minute Stormies are awesome terror troops, the next they're totally inept morons.

I always assumed that Luke's helmet was damaged when the trooper who was formerly wearing it was killed (shot at close range with low power from Han's blaster? shot in the body glove joint?), so he probably was just looking out the eyeholes, without any sort of vision enhancement whatsoever.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-09 01:47pm

Then again.. in the EU wasn't it a brain bug that the Stormtroopers were the regular army of the Empire?

And it wasn't until the prequels that we saw that they were really a somewhat rare "elite" (special, in addition to other troops) army?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-09 01:51pm

Kurgan wrote:Then again.. in the EU wasn't it a brain bug that the Stormtroopers were the regular army of the Empire?

And it wasn't until the prequels that we saw that they were really a somewhat rare "elite" (special, in addition to other troops) army?

The EU is kind of silent on whether or not the stormies are part of the "Regular" army or an elite force. The sub-divisions of stormtroopers (ie. Spacetroopers) are selected from the ranks of the stormtroopers, and the stormtroopers appear to be a volunteer force as opposed to the conscripted army. It is, however, known that particularly good conscripts are sometimes "promoted" into the stormtrooper ranks, so you can take it either way.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-02-09 02:00pm

"Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise" - Stormies are better shots than clonetroopers

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2003-02-09 02:24pm

Hmm, interesting arguments. Ok, that explains Storm Trooper inaccuracy nicely. But what about the Battle Droids? I have watched battle scenes from Episodes 1 and 2 involving droids-and they really suck. (Not the battle scenes, just the accuracy) If these are droids, also known as computer controlled robots-why can't they shoot straight?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-09 02:27pm

The Silence and I wrote:Hmm, interesting arguments. Ok, that explains Storm Trooper inaccuracy nicely. But what about the Battle Droids? I have watched battle scenes from Episodes 1 and 2 involving droids-and they really suck. (Not the battle scenes, just the accuracy) If these are droids, also known as computer controlled robots-why can't they shoot straight?

The Battle Droids DO demonstrate weak accuracy, which is probably a trade-off for their slow central-processing design. Look how long it took the battle droid in the hangar to recognize Qui-Gon's WANTED status, and realize that Qui-Gon was not to take the people off Naboo. Look at how the battle droids were clearly supposed to be "inferior" to regular soldiers, and were only used to mask their intent and to lower costs by the Trade Federation. Battle droids are not generally used as front-line troops, and their weaknesses were exploited by both the Jedi and the clones in the Battle of Geonosis.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-02-09 02:37pm

They're budget droids from the Qwik-e-mart

Imperial Wardroids are far better

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2003-02-09 02:45pm

Ok, I'll go with that, but it hurts my head. I mean, this is saying 20+ thousand years from now we wont be able to build cheap war machines with the same accuracy modern automated weapons have

Did computer technology die or something in SW?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-09 02:59pm

The Silence and I wrote:Ok, I'll go with that, but it hurts my head. I mean, this is saying 20+ thousand years from now we wont be able to build cheap war machines with the same accuracy modern automated weapons have

Did computer technology die or something in SW?

No, but the design parameters for battle droids were incorrect. The battle droids were designed to send and receive information and instructions with a central computer which controlled all of them. That is a poor design specification, because it promotes poor response-times in exchange for lower costs.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-02-09 03:41pm

http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/ ... oopers.jpg

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ers+clones

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ers+clones

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ers+clones

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ers+clones

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ers+clones

As you can see, there has been alot of arguments on both sides of the subject. The idea that the size difference means that the stormtroopers can't be clones has been dealt with, the idea that it is cheaper to have conscript has been dealt with as well as the rest of the arguments.

Some perfer one over the other and I don't think it will be resolved until (and if he resolves it) GL releases Episode III. Alot of the proof in the EU can go both ways according to the person useing the information. Really it is a grey area in the SW universe and hopefully GL will resolve the issue on way or another. Personaly I don't see the big uproar over the stormies being clones. I think it works in the overall scheme quite nicely.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-09 04:06pm

The Silence and I wrote:Ok, I'll go with that, but it hurts my head. I mean, this is saying 20+ thousand years from now we wont be able to build cheap war machines with the same accuracy modern automated weapons have

Did computer technology die or something in SW?

Cost. After all both in TPM and AOTC the driod armies where meant to force settlements via imitation and simply existing. Open warfare was never intended. So a huge army of very cheep driod's should have worked just fine. Hell the spider driod's in AOTC where designed to deal with mining camps.

xianseeker · Post by **xianseeker** » 2003-02-09 04:54pm

1. Games are NOT canon, except in terms of story when they are the lowest kind of official. Nice try.

2. Stormtroopers on the original Death Star did not exhibit poor aim, but EXCEPTIONAL discipline. The ability to draw hostile fire while under orders to allow an enemy to escape is extraordinary, and has never been observed in real life militaries, except with special forces under very unusual circumstances.

1. Ok, first of all, this was a legit question, not an attempt to pull a fst one.
2. What about the one who hit his head on the doorway, huh? That wasn't exceptional discipline was it?

(just kidding, I know the back story on that)

And to Ben "I really hate star trek with a passion, can I be in your clique" Ingram. If I was doing anything for popularity (how stupid that sounds anyway) I wouldn't be talking about ST limitations.

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Stormtrooper rifles

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