Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
Now I'm thinking about running for President of the USA and suddenly turning into a dictator...I never said it would be easy to implement. But while the proposal was made in jest, the fact remains that societal inbreeding is the primary cause for these kinds of artificial divisions. If, through some miracle, every couple was interracial and had kids, these ancient race hatreds would dissolve in two generations. Pretty hard to tell your kids not to trust Arabs or Jews when you're both.
No, that wouldn't happen. Each state would simply use those resources to enhance their own economies, and would compete over control of those resources. It would be a second colonial age.irishmick79 wrote:As long as the majority of wealth of this planet is generated on this planet, there will never be anything resembling a centralized world government. Nations and other factions competing for power and wealth would simply have no driving reason to unite.
If valuable resources were discovered off-planet and could be taken advantage of economically fairly quickly,or if first contact was made, then that could change. There would have to be something of value off-planet or something to react to to give humanity in its present condition a reason to unite.
Huh?. D'ya mean that not everyone on Earth is American, speaks English, and loves baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet??. Infidels. Nuke 'em all.Mr Bean wrote:Cultural overthrow is about the only way to do it, Unless everyone speaks the same langauge and holds similar ideas it just won't work
And what happened after colonial europe finally exhausted themselves from fighting for colonies and their wealth? The European Union happened. Sure, they took a bloody road to get there, but that's probably what the rest of the world would have to go through in order to actually unite.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:No, that wouldn't happen. Each state would simply use those resources to enhance their own economies, and would compete over control of those resources. It would be a second colonial age.
Peace. I was just displaying some USA-centric humor.Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:I realize the focus of this discussion is "Could it be done?" but I'd like to remind everyone to consider this question: "Should it be done?"
Consider just this argument: As things are now, if you don't like the country you live in -- say, the laws there are oppressive -- you can always leave it. What happens when it's all one country, and the same oppressive laws exist everywhere on the planet? What are your choices then?
Yeah but that happened to compete with other nations specifically the US, at least partly. (Said that so that I won't be jumped)irishmick79 wrote:And what happened after colonial europe finally exhausted themselves from fighting for colonies and their wealth? The European Union happened. Sure, they took a bloody road to get there, but that's probably what the rest of the world would have to go through in order to actually unite.
Too late.ArmorPierce wrote: Yeah but that happened to compete with other nations specifically the US, at least partly. (Said that so that I won't be jumped)
hmm... good point.Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:I realize the focus of this discussion is "Could it be done?" but I'd like to remind everyone to consider this question: "Should it be done?"
Consider just this argument: As things are now, if you don't like the country you live in -- say, the laws there are oppressive -- you can always leave it. What happens when it's all one country, and the same oppressive laws exist everywhere on the planet? What are your choices then?
Granted; in the situation you're describing, it isn't easy for these people to leave their countries... but it's still possible. Another point I'd like to bring up is, and this may be a False Dilemma (I hope not) -- MW has already pointed out on his "Failings of Communism" page why attempting to totally centralize a large economy is really difficult, to say the least. With a centralized government for the whole planet, you're sorta upping the stakes. Even if total centralization isn't implemented, the logistical requirements for a planetary economy, not to mention legislation, law enforcement (and with only one government, the distinction between police and soldiers would blur pretty quickly) and all of the other functions carried out by any government would be overwhelming. You'd probably have to dedicate the entire resources of a single nation just to keep it all together -- or maybe not. I'm not an expert, just throwing in my two cents.salm wrote:hmm... good point.Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:I realize the focus of this discussion is "Could it be done?" but I'd like to remind everyone to consider this question: "Should it be done?"
Consider just this argument: As things are now, if you don't like the country you live in -- say, the laws there are oppressive -- you can always leave it. What happens when it's all one country, and the same oppressive laws exist everywhere on the planet? What are your choices then?
one error is that you can leave your country whenever you want to. this might apply to people in the western world but take a whole bunch of african nations. it´s pretty hard for people who want to get out of there because the political/economic situation is bad there. first, they simply cant afford to buy a plane ticket to a rich country and if the could they´d be sent straight home, unless they can prove that they´re prosecuted out of political or religous reasons. if they´re still accepted they lead a life in asylum with very few rights.
upping the stakes? is that like giving the government too much power? (sorry dictionary doesnt tell me)Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:
Granted; in the situation you're describing, it isn't easy for these people to leave their countries... but it's still possible. Another point I'd like to bring up is, and this may be a False Dilemma (I hope not) -- MW has already pointed out on his "Failings of Communism" page why attempting to totally centralize a large economy is really difficult, to say the least. With a centralized government for the whole planet, you're sorta upping the stakes.
would the logistical requirements be higher than now? i mean they would be higher than the ones of a single country, but would they also be higher than the requirements of ALL countries on earth? i must admit that i have no idea.Even if total centralization isn't implemented, the logistical requirements for a planetary economy, not to mention legislation, law enforcement
there wouldnt be any soldiers because the country wouldnt have to be protected from other countries because there are no other countries.(and with only one government, the distinction between police and soldiers would blur pretty quickly)
again, would it be spending more recources than what is spent now for holding together the counries?and all of the other functions carried out by any government would be overwhelming. You'd probably have to dedicate the entire resources of a single nation just to keep it all together -- or maybe not. I'm not an expert, just throwing in my two cents.
hmm... i dont think that corruption grows with ruled land mass and population.Not to mention, how do you ensure that the guys we elect to run the thing don't become corrupt? 'Kay, strike that -- it's almost guaranteed that they will -- but how do we manage the people we elect to manage us? So far, we can't even keep the leaders of our own country from behaving like Caligula-wannabes...
yeah, sure, but it would be a staff way bigger than the staff of a country.Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Yeah, I think the logistics would be pretty bad... or maybe not. Okay, you've got right now, what? 150+ countries, right? I don't know the fucking number, but it's a lot. But each country, more or less, has it's own government, with its own laws and money and whatever-else.
Now all of a sudden you've got one big planetary government. Those 150+ countries are now being nominally run by one staff.
what is the dmv?Ever been to the DMV? Picture what it would be like if there were only one DMV office in the whole fucking country. Or maybe it wouldn't be set up like that. But that illustrates my point... if I still have one...
true, soldiers might not be the best cops.Regarding soldiers and police, you're exactly right. No soldiers anymore. But what's the only job they can really get with that experience? Cops. So now we've got cops who are trained, from their first day on the job, to hurt people and break stuff. (That is what soldiers are supposed to do, after all -- all this EEO in the military is pure bullshit, IMHO. Sorry, different subject.) Leads to rough handling of citizens, I would think.
There were limits on the colonial wealth of the world, however. It is very hard to imagine limits on the extractable wealth of the whole galaxy that are reasonable in terms of sustaining a single civilization that has FTL drive to serve in their transport.irishmick79 wrote:
And what happened after colonial europe finally exhausted themselves from fighting for colonies and their wealth? The European Union happened. Sure, they took a bloody road to get there, but that's probably what the rest of the world would have to go through in order to actually unite.
Depends on the planet. Some small colony would have a single government (established by the founding company.) As the colony grew and expanded, it would possibly be like the United States now. Then it would get so large that you'd eventually develop a EU-sort of situation. And that's probably about the most united you'd get for a huge colony.UltraViolence83 wrote:I'm sure everyone's noticed how in most sci-fi Earth is united in one government. Just how plausible is this idea? Shouldn't there be more governments on a planet, since peoples' ideals oftentimes differ greatly?
...This is all assuming the world unites democratically, not taken over by some crazed warlord.
Oh, would it only be possible if the world was all one society/culture?
The DMV is also the most excruciatingly slow-moving, inefficient government agency the average citizen interacts with. You go... you take a number... and you sit... and sit... and sit... and sit... get the picture? You're lucky if you make it out of there in 3 hours, most of the time.irishmick79 wrote:The DMV in the United States = The Department of Motor Vehicles.
They handle licenscing for most vehicles, and vehicle registration. Usually, it's administered at the state level here. A global system for that would be absolutely monsterous.
