"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" remake on the works

[Majin Gojira]

In case people forgot, both Buffy and Angel were continued in Comic Book Form.

[Invictus ChiKen]

I'd just like to see a male slayer, just because.

[Majin Gojira]

I'd just like to see a male slayer, just because.

Eh.

Most Dhampires (half Vampires) fill the void pretty well. As does Captain Kronos, Vampire Hunter and if Ash Williams ever does fight Vampires, he'd fit the bill as "Close enough" as well.

[Sarevok]

Had it been stated in the series canon that slayers can not be male ?

[Majin Gojira]

[quote="Sarevok"]Had it been stated in the series canon that slayers can not be male ?[/quot

Yup. The slayer is usualyl referred to with the phrase "One Girl in All the World."

But then, there's Harth from the Fray miniseries. He's sorta half-slayer, gaining the psychic visions, knowledge and history of the Slayer.

[Akkleptos]

Please no. I've only watched the first four seasons, but my conclusion is that Spike FAILS at badass. He needs to be tied to a chair in order to be amusing.

Then you should watch seasons 5 to 7. Even if he fails at badass, he sure gives most antivillains a run for their money.

Oh. Well, yeah, that would actually work. I thought you literally meant having her fight a Terminator... which is one-sided. Robots have historically squashed Buffy.

Yeah, like when she fought Adam (human-demon-cyborg, immune to magic, packing a minigun and a grenade launcher), right? Even drawing from the Firts Slayer's powers, that was epic fail, wasn't it?

A followup to Buffy is rather pointless unless they intended to tie it into the finale of Angel. THAT would actually be worth seeing and actually have a legitimate foundation for a sequel. As it is, making a movie just for Buffy is trying to somehow revive a story that was FINISHED rather dramatically in the series. Buffy had her battles, won and left Sunnydale a big fucking crater so a movie isnt really going to top that or add anything new.

Yes. Also, the because of the Sunnydale crater thing, the movie would have to be a reboot.

Also:

This seems to raise more questions than answers. I mean, each generation HAD one vampire slayer, that's been old news for half a decade.

Did you watch season 7? Spoiler

All the "potentials" were upgraded to full-blown Slayers.

EDIT: Adam's chars.

[Faqa]

Yeah, like when she fought Adam (human-demon-cyborg with a miniguin and a grenade launcher), right? Even drawing from the Firts Slayer's powers, that was epic fail, wasn't it?

Was that sarcasm? Because YES, she did epically fail at defeating him. She barely managed to scratch him, let alone hurt him. This is WHY she had to turn on cheat mode Invoke The Power Of The First Slayer. While also managing to rip off the Matrix rather massively.

Honestly, that was incredibly stupid and the only good thing about it was the episode directly afterwards.

[Akkleptos]

Was that sarcasm? Because YES, she did epically fail at defeating him. She barely managed to scratch him, let alone hurt him. This is WHY she had to turn on cheat mode Invoke The Power Of The First Slayer. While also managing to rip off the Matrix rather massively.

Honestly, that was incredibly stupid and the only good thing about it was the episode directly afterwards.

Now that you mention it, it WAS kind of a deus ex machina, yes.

Still, it wasn't the first time such a thing is used in a story, and it certainly won't be the last. It's the writer's prerogative. Be it superlasers that tear planets apart or a magical mystic energy. Their universe, their laws.

[Faqa]

Was that sarcasm? Because YES, she did epically fail at defeating him. She barely managed to scratch him, let alone hurt him. This is WHY she had to turn on cheat mode Invoke The Power Of The First Slayer. While also managing to rip off the Matrix rather massively.

Honestly, that was incredibly stupid and the only good thing about it was the episode directly afterwards.

Now that you mention it, it WAS kind of a deus ex machina, yes.

Still, it wasn't the first time such a thing is used in a story, and it certainly won't be the last. It's the writer's prerogartive. Be it superlasers that tear planets apart or a magical mystic energy. Their universe, their laws.

And it's viewer's prerogative to say it's utterly retarded if done. Honestly, I expected better from the series.

Regardless, the original statement was made in the context of having Cameron, a modified Terminator model from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, fight Buffy. Which, without First Slayer Power(which means she needs three people backing her up), would pretty much end with Buffy being squashed.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Yup. The slayer is usualyl referred to with the phrase "One Girl in All the World."

But then, there's Harth from the Fray miniseries. He's sorta half-slayer, gaining the psychic visions, knowledge and history of the Slayer.

True but with reboots you can redo a lot of the rules I've noticed and I'd just love to see it done for the piss off Whedon factor!

Of course if not that I always wanted to see Willow stay a hacker and Xander become the witch OR have Xander always have been the hacker and Willow go witchy. It just sorta pissed me off that Willow got to fill two character niches and Xander was just the "normal guy" read comic relief.

Especially given how Angel's team was mostly human or human level and at one point all human.

[Majin Gojira]

True but with reboots you can redo a lot of the rules I've noticed and I'd just love to see it done for the piss off Whedon factor!

Eh. It's be a retread. Buffy subversion(s) made her stand out. Going back to a Captain Kronos, Blade or even a Kushing Van Hellsing would simply be a retread of old material. Unless something new can be brought to the table (Like with Sam Raimi's update of Night of the Demon: Drag Me To Hell) there's no point in really doing it at all.

[Strider]

Regardless, the original statement was made in the context of having Cameron, a modified Terminator model from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, fight Buffy. Which, without First Slayer Power(which means she needs three people backing her up), would pretty much end with Buffy being squashed.

It would probably actually end up with Buffy running the fuck away after being unable to really hurt Cameron. Buffy managed to escape from Glory numerous times, and Glory was both faster and stronger than Cameron is. Much, much ditzier, but the point stands. What's Buffy's first rule of Slaying? "Don't die." (And she's managed to follow it all but three times!)

[Akkleptos]

Regardless, the original statement was made in the context of having Cameron, a modified Terminator model from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, fight Buffy. Which, without First Slayer Power(which means she needs three people backing her up), would pretty much end with Buffy being squashed.

It could be chalked up to villain degradation, but if you remember when she fought the first tulachon (Übervamp) she couldn't even scratch it. In fact, she had to drop a bunch of steel beams from a construction site to merely stop it. But eventually, Buffy and the potentials-turned-slayers were killing the übervamps hither and thither (of course, with casualties) IIRC.

I can easily see an encounter between Buffy and a Cameron-style terminator going like this. Also, if Cameron's physical resistance is anything like that of a T-800 (more than likely), well, we've already seen how they can be relatively easily disposed of by mere humans once they know what they are and have the means available (Terminator and Terminator II).

[PREDATOR490]

Terminators are programmed to kill humans, Buffy is trained to kill Vampires. That leaves T with the actual training to engage the other. Ironically I think Cameron is less able to engage Buffy than a regular T due to her being less ruthless. A bog standard T like Arnie or the T-888s would simply infiltrate Buffy's environment, track her then shoot her dead and everyone that got in the way or is close to her which is something Buffy would simply be unprepared for.

Buffy might be able to engage a T with sufficient knowledge of what she is facing but I find it unlikely she would survive the first encounter to gain that knowledge. Getting close to Buffy is not really difficult, especially during the day which is when she and her friends consider themselves 'safe' for the most part. If the T does the job properly as an infiltrator SHOULD. It will act like a normal person, approach Buffy, pull out the gun and put several rounds into her.

If you want to bring the Cameron from the TSCC pilot then Buffy is simply dead.

Cameron: 'Hi, I am new here, whats your name ?'
Buffy: 'I'm Buffy, Welc...'
*BANG, BANG, BANG*

[Majin Gojira]

Ignoring the fact that an Order of Taraka Asassin tried to do the exact same thing and Buffy survived.

Whether the Asassin was human or not (the others were not listed to be, and no script data exists to prove either end) so it may or may not apply.

[PREDATOR490]

Is this the one that was posing as a cop ?

If memory serves Buffy was given advanced notice of the upcoming hit, assassin pulled the gun and Buffy went HtH with her. In the case of a T, Buffy should have no advanced warning, has no means of destroying a T readily available and dosent know the thing is not human until it smacks her hence, going HtH with a T will should still be fatal.

[Faqa]

Well, I suppose Buffy could pull out a bazooka like she did for the uber-demon she couldn't touch. It's just that if you're giving her time to do that, you're giving Cameron time to stalk and kill her. Not to mention the fact that a T is unlikely to stand still for the missile the way the demon did(he thought no weapon could hurt him), and that, given Arnie's durability in T1, Cameron might actually SURVIVE a direct hit, and wouldn't that be fun?

If you want to bring the Cameron from the TSCC pilot then Buffy is simply dead.

Or the one from the end of season 1 who calmly got what she wanted from a couple then coldly left them behind to be killed by mobsters. Or the one from mid-season 2 who executed 4 innocent idiots on the spot to prevent them from giving Cromartie any leads. Or the one who had to be stopped from executing Ellison in the season finale on mere suspicion.

...

The only time I can recall her consciously not trying to kill anyone is during her raid on the police station in the series( ) finale. And that might be due to not really wanting the cops to be extra-super pissed at a massive slaughter when chasing them.


And yeah, if I recall the Buffy eps right(this was the Kendra two-parter, yes?), then Buffy had advance notice on the hit, which is a pretty massive advantage. Also, some of the assassins were human(while she is superhuman), and others were demons(which she is specifically made to fight). She might contrive something to kill Cameron with luck, advance notice and with stupidity on Cameron's part. Notice how hard it was for the Connors to shake her off? Even knowing her FAR better than Buffy would, even armed with modern weapons, Cameron coming after them scared them shitless. I think that says quite enough.

(This might be a good place to bring up as a sidenote the fact that the introduction of Kendra was pretty much the moment that the Buffy-verse stopped making any sense).

[Majin Gojira]

Is this the one that was posing as a cop ?

Yes.

In the case of a T, Buffy should have no advanced warning, has no means of destroying a T readily available and dosent know the thing is not human until it smacks her hence, going HtH with a T will should still be fatal.

Then it's not a fair vs. scenario, it's a Batman with a Sniper Rifle scenario. It's admitadly a biased vs. with a predisposed outcome because one side is given preptime to set up a hit.

Where's the fun in that?

[Faqa]

Is this the one that was posing as a cop ?

Yes.

In the case of a T, Buffy should have no advanced warning, has no means of destroying a T readily available and dosent know the thing is not human until it smacks her hence, going HtH with a T will should still be fatal.

Then it's not a fair vs. scenario, it's a Batman with a Sniper Rifle scenario. It's admitadly a biased vs. with a predisposed outcome because one side is given preptime to set up a hit.

Where's the fun in that?

You want to go to a HtH cage match? Buffy still gets the unholy fuck beaten out of her.

[Majin Gojira]

You want to go to a HtH cage match? Buffy still gets the unholy fuck beaten out of her.

But not as badly.

Especially if it's a Garbage Match.

Though Oil might be a bit more enjoyable

[PREDATOR490]

Terminators dont play fair and as far as a realistic vs. it is the most accurate.

Straight up HtH with a Terminator is still likely to be fatal for Buffy unless Buffy can withstand punches that go through a person's chest (T1), Walls (TSCC) or even Bank Vault Doors (TSCC Pilot). Then she has to somehow hit back hard enough to hurt the T which is a pretty steep challenge let alone KILL it. If the Terminator is given prep-time beforehand then Buffy is more screwed.

Realistically, Willow has the greatest chance of stopping a T depending on how her magic is holding up. Xander might be able to provide some of his 'military' knowledge but outside of providing heavy weapons that info is useless. Which leaves Buffy well and truely fucked without serious help from her friends... who will instantly become targets of the T when they are identified and used to nail Buffy.

[Faqa]

You want to go to a HtH cage match? Buffy still gets the unholy fuck beaten out of her.

But not as badly.

Especially if it's a Garbage Match.

Though Oil might be a bit more enjoyable

Mud, please. Although it would probably still be too short to be enjoyable. One fist through the chest finishes her.

Face it, to beat a Termie Buffy needs prep time, luck and probably not-inconsiderable help from the Scooby Gang.

[Majin Gojira]

Terminators dont play fair and as far as a realistic vs. it is the most accurate.

Indeed they do not, but the way you're talking means that the Terminator would know an improbably amount of prep-data and have prep-time to boot. A general no-no.

Straight up HtH with a Terminator is still likely to be fatal for Buffy unless Buffy can withstand punches that go through a person's chest (T1),

To use an Angel example, Hamilton. Slayers have a long history of resisting quite a lot of Blunt Force Trauma. Buffy and Angel are roughly equal in terms of blunt force resistance, but Hamilton never managed to penetrate Angel like he did that one helpless Security Gaurd.

Walls (TSCC)

Which Slayers have done--though "Wall" is quite generic a descriptor.

or even Bank Vault Doors (TSCC Pilot).

I believe that the Beast pulled that trick on Angel once. He did a lot of damage--could probably tear a Terminator appart if he actually tried. Guy was making leaps over 4 story buildings despite being about a ton himself. Hell, he eats grenades at point blank range.

And then there's Glory, who punched a metal door that was a good 6 inches thick hard enoguh to make a dent in it and devorm it enough to knock it off its hinges completely. It took a few punches, but it still got through. Buffy survived being punched by her multiple times--even to the point of being lifted off her feet, thrown several yards into the air (up and sideways) and slaming into the cement wall of a warehouse hard enough for it to crack, indent and partly breach it. She got right back up afterwords (bruised, but able to fight).

In other instances, she was once hit by a truck (Ford) going about 25mph and got back up without visible injury after being tossed by about 5ft. (Markating distance with Buffy was damn easy given SMG is only about 5ft herself--5'3").

She once took an Initiative tazer to the chest (12,000 volts) which knocked her back 6ft up into a wall of stone and was only a little put off by it. ("The Yoko Factor")

She took multiple blows from a troll with a big hammer (dietic even).

She's fallen 50ft onto cement--landing on her back, and managed to be stunned for literally only a second before catching her wits and moving out of the way of falling debris ("The Gift").

Then she has to somehow hit back hard enough to hurt the T which is a pretty steep challenge let alone KILL it.

Back when I attempted to quantify Buffy to a degree (I gave up once I realized that the Camera was being altered for the benifit of the viewer actually seeing the combat), I took some good notes on it--but I won't say they're totally accurate. It's the best I could come up with, but I'm no scientist.

She's able to leap about 20ft into the air with only the briefest of running starts. (Buffy vs. Dracula giving the best example of this, as it's nearly vertical)

Some of her blows were strong enough to send Initiative Soldiers flying low-to-the ground across 25ft of earth.

And for Lifting? She maxes out at just over a ton. The best example is found at the start of Season 3 ("Anne"), with a metal portcullis which she manages to lift (whilst complaing about it mightily) 6ft for a total of 15 seconds (12 of which were spent to get to that height and then walk under it). When asking around (for estimates on weight) the general consensus 'round these parts IIRC was 2 tons.

She's pulled off close-range Crossbow bolt catches before ("Help") and in terms of running speed...it's pretty fluxtuating. Early on, it was just 16mph ("Anne"), but one incident in Season 5...I had her clocked for short bursts between 28 and 55mph ("The Shadow") depending on the shot.

Buffy is actually surprisingly strong. She once sliced off a woman's arm (bone too) with a thrown shard of glass. HTH, she's breaking wood most of the time (and pretty thick wood at that--up to half a foot on the axsis broken), but needs tools to get through most metals (IE: Ax vs. Chains).

Bomb shelter doors flumux her quite well universally, so some Termies have her beat in strength given the Bank Vault stuff.

In combat, her heart rate was listed at 145 beats per minute by initiative instruments whilst she was fighting two demons (and realizing she was brought into a trap). I have no idea what that means to be perfectly honest, nor what it implies, so I'm just throwing it out there.

Realistically, Willow has the greatest chance of stopping a T depending on how her magic is holding up.

Lightning to the face outha mess up a termie pretty badly consdiering it hurt something that effectively survived partial atmospheric reintry and landing on solid ground. Then there's that whole "metal" thing.

Face it, to beat a Termie Buffy needs prep time, luck and probably not-inconsiderable help from the Scooby Gang.

Or a good weapon and close range. Buffy with an Ax (or--god forbid, the Scythe), with her greater speed, might be able to take on a Terminator in close range. Terminators are strong and definitely more durable than Buffy. But they still centralize their processors at least partly in their heads IIRC, and thus are vulnerable to a slayer favorite move: Decapitation.

A Termie worth it's salt, though, won't let that happen and keep it at range. She's dodged Bullets (or rather, the aim of the shooter) before, but only in short range and with convinent cover. She usually left with 50ft of space between her and the shooter. But as a general rule, Guns > Buffy.

Blunt force truama, though? Yeah, gonna need a lot of that to be effective.

[Revy]

A Termie worth it's salt, though, won't let that happen and keep it at range. She's dodged Bullets (or rather, the aim of the shooter) before, but only in short range and with convinent cover. She usually left with 50ft of space between her and the shooter. But as a general rule, Guns > Buffy.

Don't forget Warren, the guy with quite probably no firearms training or skills, managed to just walk up to her and put a round in her shoulder.

Terminators are *much* better shots than that, just ask poor Derrek. If Buffy found herself in the same situation as him, she'd be dead. She couldn't dodge a bullet from an average joe human even when he was standing in front of her shouting at her, so a terminator she doesn't know walking up to her and capping her in the head or heart much faster and more accurate than Warren?

In fact, if he hadn't been such a wuss, he could have walked over and finished her off. Obviously you can't have that happen, because the title character is protected by character shields, but without them a regular untrained human with a mere pistol could have done what hellgods, demons and ubbervamps all failed at. Based on that situation alone, a trained soldier in civies, unknown to Buffy could have finished her off. Being a terminator just seals the deal.

As for comparing durability to villain strength ... ugh, don't go there. One thing I couldn't stand was how Caleb could knock Buffy out in a single punch, yet even after recently being 'recharged' by the First, he repeatedly hits her in their final fight without even fazing her. Character shields are not just able to deflect bullets, but punches as well. Stupid villain decay.

EDIT - Oh snatch, I forgot this;

Terminators are strong and definitely more durable than Buffy. But they still centralize their processors at least partly in their heads IIRC, and thus are vulnerable to a slayer favorite move: Decapitation.

Wasn't it a major plot point though that in TSCC Cromartie was able to reassemble his body even though he had been decapitated and dismembered? I can't exactly remember.

[PREDATOR490]

Terminators are strong and definitely more durable than Buffy. But they still centralize their processors at least partly in their heads IIRC, and thus are vulnerable to a slayer favorite move: Decapitation.

Wasn't it a major plot point though that in TSCC Cromartie was able to reassemble his body even though he had been decapitated and dismembered? I can't exactly remember.

Yes, second episode I expect since his head was taken off in the pilot but his body wasnt destroyed. Apparantly it was left in a junkyard for 8 years in good condition. Additionally, the body seems to be able to operate on it's own despite the head being severed and can be activated remotely.
Although this was the T-888 so wether or not Arnie could do it is unknown. Cameron's abilities and particular model remain speculative at best so taking her head off might be fatal or not.

As for Buffy getting shot, this has been brought up before and she was attempting to shield Xander from the gunfire leaving her stuck for mobility. Warren caught Buffy at a bad time and simply makes him extremely lucky. The other times guns have been used against Buffy have went badly ranging from Darla to the Initiative and to the Watcher's hit squad.

Additionally, the Terminator dosent need prep-data or time to kill Buffy. A simple meeting has been my viewpoint on the vs. situation. Ts prefer to use handguns as their default weapon for the most part and Buffy uses a Stake. That puts a fight as Gun Wielding Robot vs. Stake Wielding Superhuman, assuming Buffy can somehow dodge the bullets and remove the gun from the T that leaves a straight HtH fight which already heavily favours the T since Buffy wont know it is a Robot until she takes skin off.

I can easily see Buffy removing the gun, doing some fancy moves followed by smashing Mr. Pointy into T's chest. If Mr. Pointy is somehow capable of piercing a Terminator chest then Buffy is either going to potentially kill herself from hitting the nuclear power source of the T or stare open mouthed when her stake shatters followed by getting hit back. Knowing Buffy, she will either try more HtH until she realises it is futil or she will get her ass handed to her both resulting in her fleeing if she somehow survives. Although if the T is actually efficient it will simply grab her then promptly squeeze until her bones start popping and leave her crippled long enough to deliver a killing blow.

Otherwise Buffy gets away then the T will simply hunt her down. Xander, Willow, Giles, Anya, Joyce, Angel and Cordy depending on when this vs. occurs all become prime targets for the T to take out, interrogate / impersonate and lure Buffy to a rather brutal death.