It's totally legal for Fox to knowingly lie on air

[Bellator]

Yet again you demonstrate your own stupidity. That utterly fails to refute the point, which is that you can't equate things like "bias in topic selection" with outright lying.

Show why that proves dishonesty.

Don't be a dick, I NEVER said MSNBC is being dishonest. One can be quite biased, without actually lieing.

So...calling out douchebags on their bullshit indicates a "bias" against...what exactly? Dishonesty?

I can think of dozens of people in the world who would warrant the title "worst person in the world" more than Billo, however much of a douchebag he is. It's a bias against conservatives, one that I happen to share, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

[Rye]

If one is biased to the point of dishonesty and the other is biased to the point of topic selection, generally justified opinion and honest reporting, they're really not the same level of bias. I think that's the point people have been trying to explain to you; they're not equivalent. The assertion that they are is middle ground nonsense.

[Darth Wong]

Yet again you demonstrate your own stupidity. That utterly fails to refute the point, which is that you can't equate things like "bias in topic selection" with outright lying.

Show why that proves dishonesty.

Don't be a dick, I NEVER said MSNBC is being dishonest. One can be quite biased, without actually lieing.

Don't be a fucking idiot. You claimed they are just as bad as FOXNews. FOXNews lies. Your claim is bullshit unless MSNBC also lies.

Explain your claim that MSNBC's bias is as bad as FOX's bias. Frankly, you're just swallowing right-wing propaganda hook, line, and sinker. They harp on weak-ass bullshit like "downplaying certain stories" as proof of bias when they themselves outright LIE to the public.

The health-care debate is an excellent example: they claim that the "liberal media" is downplaying horror stories about the Canadian health-care system when those stories are in fact either outliers or problems which exist in greater severity in America, and they themselves are blowing them all out of proportion. Then they tell outright LIES about the Canadian health care system, like the bullshit about how everyone goes on a waiting list for routine procedures, or how people can't choose their own doctors, or how it's more wasteful and expensive than the US system: all outright lies, all regularly repeated by right-wing "news" sources.

[TheKwas]

Where exactly did he say MSNBC was just as bad as FOXnews? I don't think he did.

What he said was:

MSNBC may not systematically distort facts like Fox does, it is most certainly the anti-Fox when it comes to bias. As much as I enjoy watching MSNBC, and loath watching Fox, it's quite obvious there is a strong liberal bias in MSNBC's choice of topics and the coverage thereof. Doubly so for their non-news programs (Olbermann, Maddow, etc).

Which could be interpretted as "just as bad as FOX" if you interpret 'anti-FOX' to mean 'exactly like Fox, but the opposite'. However, my reading of the context led me to the conclusion that he simply meant that MSNBC is biased towards liberals, but the bias isn't nearly as bad.

[Zwinmar]

Hence why I dont like reporters (caveat: Journalists are the real deal), they like to spin the facts to meet their idealized view of the world, or even out right lie. They are worse than politicians.

[General Zod]

Where exactly did he say MSNBC was just as bad as FOXnews? I don't think he did.

What he said was:

MSNBC may not systematically distort facts like Fox does, it is most certainly the anti-Fox when it comes to bias. As much as I enjoy watching MSNBC, and loath watching Fox, it's quite obvious there is a strong liberal bias in MSNBC's choice of topics and the coverage thereof. Doubly so for their non-news programs (Olbermann, Maddow, etc).

Which could be interpretted as "just as bad as FOX" if you interpret 'anti-FOX' to mean 'exactly like Fox, but the opposite'. However, my reading of the context led me to the conclusion that he simply meant that MSNBC is biased towards liberals, but the bias isn't nearly as bad.

It's a nonsensical complaint. Can it be demonstrated that MSNBC's supposed "bias" has caused harm or caused their journalistic integrity to drop? If not then who cares? It's just typical mindless middle posturing. There's a number of institutions that you could say are biased one way or another but still maintain a degree of ethical integrity, making any claims of "bias" totally meaningless when applied to them. The WSJ, for example, is a prime example of an agency that's biased to the right but still maintains some level of standards in their reporting.

[TheKwas]

I don't watch MSNBC (being Canadian and not having access on basic cable), so I can't comment on their quality of reporting. I was just pointing out that Wong seems to have gotten more out of Bella's post than what Bella put into it.

[FireNexus]

I don't watch MSNBC (being Canadian and not having access on basic cable), so I can't comment on their quality of reporting. I was just pointing out that Wong seems to have gotten more out of Bella's post than what Bella put into it.

That may be the case, but the fact is that Bella's post was pretty worthless. "But MSNBC is biased, too" as a way of taking the air out of the criticisms of Fox is a total strawman. We're not criticizing Fox for being biased. We're criticizing Fox for being dishonest. I'm of the opinion that one cannot attempt to aspouse a far-right viewpoint without a certain level of dishonesty, but that's neither here nor there. Fox lies, MSNBC doesn't. Fox has no journalistic integrity, MSNBC does. That's the extent of the discussion. The bias has never been the relevant point.

[Davis 51]

I can think of dozens of people in the world who would warrant the title "worst person in the world" more than Billo, however much of a douchebag he is. It's a bias against conservatives, one that I happen to share, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

You will, of course, show how this is even remotely comparable to the outright lies of the people like Bill-O, Rush, and their ilk, and show how those "dozens of others" deserve the title more than they do.